News-Record.com

I feel that I must speak plainly and honestly here. Paige Patterson, along with Paul Pressler, have done more than any two people who have ever lived to distort, confuse, and basically ruin the message that God has sent forth. That message being God's love for ALL humanity, thereby, having a level plain upon which are stand. NO ONE race, gender, etc. is above another.

If someone desires to take such classes as those referenced in this article, fine. However, it would seem to me that these are things that should be taught at home. My mother taught me, a male child, how to sew, do laundry, iron, etc. Those things became VERY necessary for me upon my moving away from home.

I guess Patterson forgets that some men never marry. I guess he has forgotten about Jesus the Christ!

Shalom

Sounds like a great course to me; one much needed in a culture that has dissed homemaking, marriage and the biblical models of being male and female. I highly commend Southwestern for having the foresight to offer such a wonderful course in preparing wives and mothers to fulfill the highest calling a human being can have: the formation of young lives in the truths of the Faith and of life.

Daryl, certainly God saves all equally – the true “level playing field” is at the foot of the cross. St. Paul addresses this issue in Galatians 3; which is not addressing roles AT ALL, which he deals with in many other places:

“27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.”

Otherwise human society is designed by God with all kinds of roles and hierarchies. Children are to honor their fathers and mothers, the young are to respect their elders, employees obey their bosses, husbands are the head of their marriages and homes, coaches fule on the field, congress governs the people, etc.

To depart from God’s Kingdom order is to invite chaos and ruin. A woman’s highest calling in her role as a human being is to be a mother. She can be a diner waitress or a rocket scientist, but her role as mother is her greatest calling before God. If a woman gets married and has children she has thereby chosen her career: wife and mother. To abandon it or short-change it is to be greatly remiss. Whatever she can do in relation to her secular profession, and still outstandingly fulfill her role as wife and mother is fine – PT, in house, on-line - however. If one career has to go, however, it must be the secular. That’s how crucial the maternal calling is – in the Kingdom and in soceity. Feminism has grossly distorted the issues and muddied the waters in this area; and we are paying dearly for it across the nation.

I think it's grossly unfair to the men at the Seminary to exclude them from courses that they plainly ought to consider. Many is the time that I have needed to repair some article of clothing, but fumbled rather incompetently with needle and thread. And while I can do a half-way decent job in the kitchen with spaghetti, or with the bread machine I bought several years ago, I'm nowhere near to being good enough to survive on anything much more complex than sandwiches.

I can't see why men shouldn't be allowed, even encouraged to explore these courses. What if a minister decides against marrying? What if he does get married and his wife gets seriously ill or dies, leaving him with no female family members to perform these "menial" tasks? There's simply no reason, even in the most neanderthalian mindset, to keep these courses set up exclusively for females.

We have more than enough unisex in our society as it is. There's absolutely nothing wrong with one course being set aside exclusively for women. He explained some of their criteria for doing so, and they made sense to me.

There are inumerable places one can get info on doing light house work - on-line, library Mom. My wife and I share a great deal of cooking, clean-up etc.especially as empty-nesters; I do most of the outside work, she the inside. As I recall seminary, I was much too busy, and had way too many courses to take, to worry about housework courses.

Although distinct primary male/female roles are clearly called for in the Bible and in human societies around the world, there can be much that is common ground, and different cultures dilineate it differently. But men are men and women are women everywhere, and at all times (well, for the most part). Vive la deffernce.

I was talking to a big strapping construction dude the other night at a party and he was telling me how much he loved cooking, and that he did most of it at his house.

The whole role thing is very interesting to me, primarily because it has been so distorted today, and feminism has been on the attack to obsucre, even destroy it. It's part of the general attempt of humanism to oppose all that is biblical and truthful about human roles and relationships: gay marriage, "living together," getting in touch wiht your "feminine side" (most men today have simply lost touch wiht their TRUE manly side.

Only God, the Intelligent Designer, has revelaed to us what true manhood and womanhood is. Of course, some of the examples in the Bible are there to show the negative side, and some the positive. But the principles are clearly delinated in the didactic passages - Ephsians 5, et al.

I believe that Paige is in the beginning stages of severe dementia!

Furthermore, with the monies that students receive to attend SWBTS, a lawsuit is looming. To exclude males from a course is discriminatory. This can be enforced due to the differing monies that was referenced.

Looks like Paige did not read all of the pages in the book!

Shalom

Nikos wrote:

"There are inumerable places one can get info on doing light house work - on-line, library Mom."

Then why should a seminary waste time teaching them for credit- and demanding sexually-segragated classes- if such info is so readily available in " numerous places"?

" As I recall seminary, I was much too busy, and had way too many courses to take, to worry about housework courses."

The women at that school would be just as busy as poor little nikos was, then. Why should they worry about ( what Nikos apparently thinks he was too important for) " housework courses" if he didn't ?

Good thing Nikos didn't tick off that " big strapping construction dude" by volunteering that "God said cooking's for girls."

"if such info is so readily available in " numerous places"?

Alice, I was responding to Eric's entry, and was simply saying that if men, in general, want to know about house work techniques they can readily obtain it. The course, as I understand it, is far more that Home Ec on-line; it's about being a home builder, child educator and a godly wife -all of which is very un-PC today for radical feminists. Career is everything: let the poor fam fend for itself - farm the kids out to day-care paradise.

His quote about providing an environment for frank and honest discussions about women's concerns, wiht no men aroudn to spoil the fun, was a valid reason for making it exclusive, IMO. There are innumerable scenarios in which either sex would want total privacy. I mean, do we have to pee together, dress together and everything unisex today. How absurd.

Alice's Wonderland views are predictably fanciful.

Nikos, women can get the same info on line as the men. Men need to be able to run a home,too. What of the poor widower with kids- must he marry the first woman who comes along because he's too Biblically-bamboozled to do a load of laundry? Or should he go b

I take it back- I do wish you'd told the big ol' construction worker that your God says he's a girly-man.
I'm sure he would have been amused.

I may be in Wonderland, but you're mired in the Dark Ages and are, thanfully, a member of a dying breed. The rest of the world moves on, not caring if your God says women have to be able to cook and sew and men- not.

Yeah, I've noticed what a ?wonderful? place the world is moving on to. All that's good and loving and giving and true is from God and His Messiah. Whatever is evil, corrupt, violent, deadly and false is from the sinful nature. God's models for the home, marriage and the civil order are the only ones that really work, long-term. They are Intelligently Designed that way.

Humanistic counterfeits may crank out seeming success - for a time; but in the end they implode. Witness the devastating effect that "free sex" has had on marriages and children, the STD/AIDS horror, etc. The preceding then produced disfunctional kids, who can;t learn in schools which then fail, which then cranks out disfunctional, unproductive workers . . .

Liberal welfarism almost destroyed the social structure of the poor - black, white et al. Yes, let's move on into the dark night of sin and debauchery (gay marraige, atheism, baby killing, jihadist insanity, drug use, human cloning, and Big Brother social engineering, ad nauseam. Brave New World, here we come. Sure, let's just moveon.org into the night. The vaunted claims of libs, atheists, humanists and "progressives" are like Krushchev's "we'll bury you" bravado: empty, Quixotic wind-breaking.

Jesus di not come to establish pop-religious, TV emotionalism; but the Kingdom of God on earth, which orders all things. For "The kingdoms of this world are become the Kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign for ever and ever!" (Rev. 11) It's just a matter of time - and eternity - all of which belongs to God.

alice,
all this talk about men/women roles - you'll be happy to know that the scriptures say that men are to make the coffee in the mornings......... (i.e.) hebrews !!

hopefully a little levity doesn't offend anyone :-)

this thread has really turned into an absurd (imo)disagreement over women being allowed to take a course that men are omitted from - jeez.....really on the life threatening scale of 1-10 it falls into a negative category. eric says it's neanderthal, darryl wants to sue somebody and alice has her panties in a wad, nikos sees it as opportunity for women to expand their horizons. i'm looking forward to the next thread and hope it has some meat on its bones. a good friend once told me ' you gotta know which battles are worth fighting - ya can't fight them all or else when you really need the strength, you are already spent'...... i thought it was timely advice !

buz, stop reading the same page as Paige. I do not want to sue anyone. I stated, "...with the monies that students receive to attend SWBTS, a lawsuit is looming."

As I am not; 1) a student at SWBTS, 2) would NEVER enroll there, the chance of me suing that institution of lower learning is ZERO.

While the commentary is cute, make it a little more accurate if possible.

Shalom

didn't think i could get that one past you darryl - i was hoping you might see the humor - i realized when i posted, that you never said you would sue someone.
and alice i also know you didn't actually get your panties in a wad - just a jab at humor :-(. eric did use the word neanderthal so i'm covered on that one ( i hope)......