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Not one and the same, how true -
I'm not sure what religious persuasions have to do with anything - I'm a conservative and an Atheist - I don't believe in the existance of a supreme being and, as a Libertarian, I vote to maximize individual rights and responsibilites and minimize the role of government - if a Libertarian is on the ballet I vote for the Libertarian, if no Libertarian is on the ballet I vote for the Republican. Quite simply, I am an Atheist who votes for the most conservative candidate available - I might have preferred Mitt Romney but I will vote for John McCain - I won't stay home and I won't vote for Hillary or Obama.

Like Mr. Holden I too am a conservative and an atheist. I never have understood why people insist on linking conservatism with religion as if the two are inseperable. One has nothing to do with the other.

Interesting. I think this IS the year of a more realistic sorting out and codifying of the subtleties of persuasion. I fully agree that conservatism is not to be equated wiht evangelicalism - thank God. True evangelicalism is the biblical Faith, the Gospel of Grace (Euangelion) and all the values and truths that flow from that reality. For SURE, the Republican party - or any political entity in America today neither can, nor should, seek to embody the doctrines and policies that emanate from the evangelican Faith.

I DO believe, however, that Christians should seek office, and should seek to elect those who are closest to biblical turths and values - as EVERYONE else does from thier particular perspective. And it is perfectly feasible to be conservative on economic, security, military, etc and not be a Christain - even be an atheist. A little truth is better than no truth. I'm glad to share the conservative realm wiht all who see the light - you guys included - however we overlap.

I'm a Christian libertarian, in that I prefer a very limited government, and oppose entitlements, income tax, and unnecessary foreign entanglements. But I also believe that the Bible contains the moral, economic and social principles that make for a free, just, and prosperous social order. And they are to found in their entirety nowhere else. Conservat-ISM, or liberal-ISM, as social movements or forces, both may contain some of these principles.

Because of the nature of humanistic neo-marxism in modern American culture, liberalism best expresses its agenda - more and more openly. This inevitably means non-libertarian, big government socialism and a-moral social stands (abortion, gay marriage, etc.).

I believe that the evangelical vote will be much more diverse this year - which is good. But I trust it will gravitate to candidates and parties whose policies are closer to biblical norms. But there are other BIG issues out there that are not explressly religious or evangelical.

And no one has "dictated" to Christian evangelicals whom they will vote for. Democrats dictate to blacks, as a voting block, much more so. When there is a clear moral, ethical or spiritual issue, Christians (evangelicals) simply vote their consciences. If that forms a block - so be it. On abortion they join with Catholics. There are many other blocks and special interests - no reason Christains can't have theirs also. This is NOT a blurring of church and state, simply freedom of religion - and voting privilege.

RebelSnake said:
"I never have understood why people insist on linking conservatism with religion as if the two are inseperable."

I think you'll find that it is a long-standing and apparently successful piece of propaganda. This notion, repeated at every opportunity, has become a basic tenet of belief for most Americans over the past half-century. A most effective means of generating a huge base of votes cast with emotional support rather than rational, critical thought processes. There will be no cure for the problem until Americans stop being affected by emotion and start learning how to vote based on personally responsible research and resoning.

"There will be no cure for the problem until Americans stop being affected by emotion and start learning how to vote based on personally responsible research and resoning."

In that case there is no hope.

Well, come on guys! We ALL know that American (and all other culture's) political process is at least 75% emotion. What else can you expect from a cool-media-infested milieu?

But that said, there is a certain amount of content available - in some cases a lot; and certain types of voters DO read and inform themselves by it. But the masses are certainly swayed by soundbyte techniques.

As far as emotion goes, the leftist, liberal side ALSO pumps them up: as per Obama's vacuous populism. It's rampant on both sides of the spectrum. We just have to make do. (to our mutual regret).

Actually, there is a strong connection between conservatism and biblical Christianity, but it is certainly not uniform or pervasive; especially in modern America. A party that affirms the rihgt ot life will inevitably draw support from Christians. To "conserve" means to maintain or keep the trusted MOs of the past. And since America's general culture was founded and formed along biblical lines, there IS a certain connection.

Liberalism, on the other hand, has for a long time been associated with "progressivist" ideas and policies. And now has become ever more saturated with atheistic neo-Marxism; and policies that run directly counter to biblical morality. Even their vaunted social programs and entitlements are largely and ultimately failures, because they run counter the the biblical principle or individual responsibility and the work ethic. People are all to prone to sit back and watch the govenment checks flow in; while losing their self-respect and initiative.

So the connection is real and palpable; although no informed Christian agrees with every stand of the GOP; and some feel an affinity for certain specific policies of the DNC. But the connection is there: historically, definitively and inescapably - as long as the GOP doesn't drift to the left significantly enough to arouse Christian ire and rejection. The McCain phenomenon is illustrative.

Nikos said:
"Well, come on guys! We ALL know that American (and all other culture's) political process is at least 75% emotion. What else can you expect from a cool-media-infested milieu?"

And this wasn't the case in the 1800's? Ignorance has always been bliss for political hucksters, and I suspect this is one reason why public education has NEVER included instruction on critical thinking.

Lincoln said that you can't fool all of the people all of the time. I sometimes wonder if he was pointing out that in our system of government, all one need do is to fool 51 percent of the voters all of the time -- a far less onerous burden, don't you think?

"What else can you expect from a cool-media-infested milieu?"

And this wasn't the case in the 1800's? Ignorance has always been bliss for political hucksters" Namtac

I haven't delved into the 1800s as far as the level of general issue awareness is concerned, but I would immediately suppose that there was a great deal of reading and study (by those who could vote) as to the positions and rhetoric of the candidates.

The problem today is that people get most of their info thru the cool medium of TV, which is content-low and emotion-high - you know, "the medium is the message."

Conversely, we have the Internet and books galore, which helps to mitigate the TV phenomenon. But you are certainly right in saying that the public education system is virtually devoid of critical thinking - or any thinking. (I won't go there). But critical, logical thinking alone is not the answer either, because it rarely deals with morals, values, and spirituality - which is the stuff of cultural and national order, justice, and success.

What we need is in-depth, fully informed biblical knowledge, applied in intelligent and logical ways to our current social scenario. It may "seem" logical to kill babies in the womb, but it is, in fact, spiritual darkness and foolishness. Logic is the orderly thinking-out and carrying-out of God's truth. It is the product of intelligent design!

"What else can you expect from a cool-media-infested milieu?"

And this wasn't the case in the 1800's? Ignorance has always been bliss for political hucksters" Namtac

I haven't delved into the 1800s as far as the level of general issue awareness is concerned, but I would immediately suppose that there was a great deal of reading and study (by those who could vote) as to the positions and rhetoric of the candidates.

The problem today is that people get most of their info thru the cool medium of TV, which is content-low and emotion-high - you know, "the medium is the message."

Conversely, we have the Internet and books galore, which helps to mitigate the TV phenomenon. But you are certainly right in saying that the public education system is virtually devoid of critical thinking - or any thinking. (I won't go there). But critical, logical thinking alone is not the answer either, because it rarely deals with morals, values, and spirituality - which is the stuff of cultural and national order, justice, and success.

What we need is in-depth, fully informed biblical knowledge, applied in intelligent and logical ways to our current social scenario. It may "seem" logical to kill babies in the womb, but it is, in fact, spiritual darkness and foolishness. Logic is the orderly thinking-out and carrying-out of God's truth. It is the product of intelligent design!

The rules of logic work for people who have no knowledge of any god. I find utterly absurd the claim all thinking emanates from supernatural causes. In that case, why not all emotion, too, as you claim, Nikos, (and probably rightly) our politics is decided upon? I suspect you don't lay the praise and blame for every stupid political choice of the electorate at God's lap. Why not, then, allow that the same members of the electorate might also be able to make logical decisions aside from the Bible or some other supernatural reference?