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No one human or group of humans has the right to decide whether another should be put to death (state-sanctioned murder). No where in Christian scripture is murder permissible.

Shalom

I keep wondering about the people who say they're determined to expand the uses of the death penalty. Is this a "slippery slope" toward the barbaric past of medieval Europe (or present-day Saudi Arabia)? Will we end up decapitating all rapists and drug dealers and mounting their heads outside City Hall one day? Would even that end the crimes we hold in deepest contempt?

Both are premeditated. Both do irrevocable harm. Indeed, one could argue in some cases the harm of raping a child is worse in that the child must then live with the severe personal consequences of such an act the duration of a long life. One could argue that child rape is more brutal and more twisted even than some kinds of murder. But what bothers me is that I don't see constitutionally how this is an issue for the courts as much as the legislatures.

The Christian Scriptures include both Old and New Testaments. It is clear that God did not consider either the death penalty or killing in war to be the same as murder. Both are clearly addressed in the Torah. Indeed, the basis for capital punishment is the high value of human life made in God's image. Jesus never abrogated the right of the secular State to tax or to put to death in cases of capital crimes.

This also comes out clearly in Romans 13 where the State is "allowed the power of the sword."

There may be many good and/or practical reasons not to have the death penalty, but a principled appeal to the Christian Scriptures cannot be one of the reasons.

The one that lives by the sword will also die by that very same sword.

Jesus the Christ very clearly and emphatically in the Sermon from the Mount stated how to live. Joel Gillespie, who is your neighbor?

Shalom

Darryl, as Joel said, a clear, intentional contrast is drawn in the Scriptures between murder and killing. Killing (capital punishment) is not only allowed, but demanded in OT case law regarding serious crimes against God and other human beings. It is also commanded in destroying Israel's enemies in warfare.

Jesus' focus was on interpersonal relations/dynamics, not civil law, which had been established already in the OT codes. He himself expressed violent measures when He overturned the tables of the money changers in the Temple and drove them out with a whip! He also warned the Jews of their impending judgment in 70 AD: an action sanctioned and accomplished in accordance with God's will. In fact, all sinners stand under God's death penalty for their rebellion and sin. Only the Cross can spare us this end.

So all this appeal to Jesus is not only naive and imaginary, but totally unstudied. God's wrath is as real as his love. You cannot separate His holiness and justice from his love and mercy. Only the cross holds them in transcendant tension.

All child rapists/abusers, after being proved guilty in a court of law, should be under a MANDATORY sentence of capital pusnishment. Anyone who opposes this just punishment has little sense of justice or compassion for children. The consequences in their precious lives (as Joel pointed out) are devasting - a slow, tortured murder of their potential and happiness.

nikos wrote:

"All child rapists/abusers, after being proved guilty in a court of law, should be under a MANDATORY sentence of capital pusnishment. Anyone who opposes this just punishment has little sense of justice or compassion for children."

So that Lynn Paddock, good christian lady in Smithfield NC who followed the preacher's advice books on how to discipline" children- (even children as young as 6 months who cry)- both she and that preacher should be executed?
Cool. That means Mr Preacher man Michael Pearl ( and his wife) are mass abusers who also financially profit from abuse and death ( they sell those books) and should also be getting the magic needle soon.

And Nikos, if you don't agree, then you're a hypocrite.

The clear implication, Alice, was that adults who sexually abuse children are among the worst of all criminals, and deserve to be lawfully executed by the state. The harm they do to innocent children is virtually incalculable.

As far as other ways in which people/parents abuse children, well-meaning or not, they should also be prosecuted IF a crime has been committed. If first degree murder, they should be executed. If there are mitigating circumstances, they should be prosecuted accordingly.

All killing is not first degree murder; and the Paddock woman may have THOUGHT she was doing the right thing by her son. This is a mitigating circumstance. Michael Pearl, who unwisely advised her, could very well be culpable, and should be prosecuted accordingly.

I, in no way approve of excessive corporal punishment techniques; but some limited physical discipline can be effectively used as an adjunct to other methods of training. It IS a biblical principle; but excess can easily become abuse, just like anything else! We used corporal punishment VERY sparingly with our own children, and never when they were young. They turned out great! They KNEW we loved them dearly – enough to discipline them. I find that authorities who won’t use ANY corporal punishment, often severely abuse children mentally to compensate. Our schools are become jungles of chaos and unrest because disrespectful, undisciplined children are being unloaded into them by irresponsible parents; and wits-end teachers are doing some very strange things to cope. Wild, undisciplined children are miserable children – with even more miserable parents. But restrained discipline, and abuse are two entirely different things.

We know a young mother who has been led astray by Pearl’s excessive advocacy, and are trying to dissuade her. I do believe that anyone, Pearl, doctors, psychiatrists, et al. who publicly advocate dangerous practices or treatments must be held accountable. As for FIRST DEGREE murder in the Paddock case, I’m not sure. Let a court of law decide.

My call for capital punishment was SPECIFICALLY for child rapists/sexual abusers, totally contingent upon proof in a court of law.

Jesus was noted to have claimed to have come to FULFILL the LAW AND the PROPHETS. So if that is the case, then loving one's neighbor is what it is about. Or is the love I am hearing here only for those of like belief?

Shalom

Nikos, you said abusers. You didn't qualify or limit your comment to " sexual abusers". So your pained " My call for capital punishment was SPECIFICALLY for child rapists/sexual abusers, totally contingent upon proof in a court of law" is a pitiful dance ( oh, wait- you probably don't dance - it might be a sin) to cover yourself.

Mrs Paddock was convicted of 1st degree murder.
When will the nutcase Pearls be convicted of the same- and for financially profiting from the death and abuse of other children? Writing- and justifying with biblical quotes -that a 6 month old baby should be smacked with a PVC pipe for daring to cry? Yeah. Jesus must still be weeping.

Alice, I agree; Jesus is weeping!

I still like the bumper sticker that reads something like this; Jesus save me from your followers!

Shalom

I agree totally that God's heart is touched by such wrong-headed twisting of his Word (Pearl), and the terrible results of taking it. I never cease to be apalled that Christians exceed God's boundaries in this matter and cause such harm. If Paddock's action was actually precipitated by Pearl's direct advice, whether by book, tape or voice, he should indeed be prosecuted on the proper charges.

My daughter and son-in-law are raising two VERY fine, well-behaved, and happy children. They use time-out, firm words, and rewards for right behavior. They reserve corporal discipline only for clear acts of defiance and disrespect, and only for the older child, who obviously now understands his actions.

Pearl is right that early discipline is a training action, not teaching. (He is very wrong in his unbalanced and extreme advice.) Children cannot apprehend verbal reasoning. If you don't want your child to run out into the street, a rational discourse will never suffice. A firm smack on the rear may just leave the desired impression. My advice is for parents to use all other means of discipline BEFORE corporal. For some offenses it seems irreplaceable.

However, each parent must make the decisions for themselves and must not be interferred with by the state. Only clear cases of abuse should warrant intervention into the private domain of the American home. And I assure you well-taught, loving Christians are far less likely than other parents to abuse corporal punishment.

Jesus is also weeping over the MILLIONS of dead fetuses tossed into dumpsters and landfills of this nation by abortionists!!!!!

Alice, I have NO reason to "cover myself" I said, "All child rapists/abusers" - if that isn't clearly referring to sexual abuse, I don't know how to say it much clearer. You should have caught that.

And I do dance - a lot: waltz, foxtrot, square dancing, and contra dancing. I don't see anything in Scripture that forbids dancing. As amatter of fact, I think Christians have more to dance about than anyone. David danced before the Lord when the Ark was brought up to Jerusalem. The Psalms admonish us to dance: "Praise Him with the timbrel and dance" Ps. 150.