News-Record.com

Excellent explanation, John -- a service in itself, helping people understand what's going on. I had lunch with two college buddies today and both of them asked, "Now what is this blog thing you're doing? What's a blog?"

Now, I'll point everyone who asks to this column. It goes without saying that I am rooting for the N&R in these efforts. Congratulations so far.

I'm scheduling a meeting with Kathy Lambeth this coming week about some business models, that I've spoken to Tony (through LG) about. I think it might be worthwhile to at least take a look at. If you're interested, I'll ask her to give me a couple times that work with both you and her, and we'll sit down about it. LMK.

An excellent explanation of how this whole thing might work in the N&R's future to be sure, but...

I'm surprised that you didn't put it a little more like this:

"You will be able to interact with others, in forums and comment sections. The topics could range from hard news issues such as school discipline to narrower interests like High Point Central football or video games. Readers will help drive the direction"... MUCH LIKE Roch Smith's Greensboro101.com is doing already.

You have used the words "a virtual town square, a trusted place where people...." several times in this series of articles. I am a skeptical, long-suffering reader of your paper that has a deep distrust of the editoral staff.

It will take some time for you to earn my trust.

I am the typical rural, uneducated (BSBA, '68 UNC Chapel Hill) man who trusts Jesus Christ. I think that sexual orientation is a bed room decision that does not earn one any special rights. I believe that political correctness is a tool of liberals to squelch speech; all abortion is murder; religious expression in public places is a fundlemental right.

Now do you really think that by setting quotas based on skin color is really going to make your paper appear fair and balanced to a reader like me?

No, Jasper, you will never be happy. You think the newspaper makes you suffer (?), and you make it clear that you will always prefer to stand outside the public square throwing rocks.

Patrick,

I don't agree with much of what Jasper talks about, but I *really* think he has a point.

So far, this WHOLE thing is a group of people who all think alike, talk alike and have probably the same views on just about everything. (I'm generalizing somewhat to make a point..)

Jasper is right to question the notion that different ideas will actually be listened to.

You can call anything a "town square", but if everyone who is actually, really listened to in that town square conforms to the unspoken, unwritten "ways" of that town square, then it's not really a town square, is it?

It sounds like a mutual-admiration society (or the Mainstream Media) that has opened its doors to let OTHER "outside" people of similar (very similar) views "speak up."

Also Patrick, it would probably help if you knew what long-suffering meant. It doesn't LITERALLY mean that the person is suffering because he reads the paper.

long-suffering

adj : patiently enduring continual wrongs or trouble; "an enduring disposition";

Jim,

The process has been open to anyone who wants to contribute. Rather than choosing to participate, Jasper simply says, sarcastically, that he doubts there will be changes.

And to top it off, he singles out an initiative that is specifically designed to increase the diversity of voices participating.

Besides, the point person for this change is an avowed member of the GOP, whose values most closely mirror those that Jasper lists.

Jim, thanks for the definition, but I understand what long-suffering means. I may not have made my point clearly, but what I was hoping to say is that no one makes him endure the newspaper.

Patrick,

Unfortunately (or fortunately), you AND Jasper are right. You've both said things that are true (or that I believe to be true.)

I think everyone can agree that in a city that has a newspaper (daily, at any rate) monopoly, that Jasper has essentially been forced to endure the views of the News & Record.

I do think that Jasper has a point to be pessimistic about this endeavor: I remember well the News & Record's "Depot" concept as well as its "community publishing" debacle.

Of course, I truly hope this does succeed, and perhaps your comments about Jasper are made because you sense he might not even want them to, which might be the case. Still, his pessimism should be not be ignored.

I always enjoy the discussion about the monopoly we have. Monopoly, if you discount all the TV stations, the Rhino, the GGO, and, most recently, Yes! To say nothing of the Internet.

That said, I'm happy for you to watch and wait, Jasper. (A UNC grad uneducated?) But I want to make sure you're waiting for what I'm promising. You have a voice now to expound on your views in the newspaper and the web site. We have people on the editorial pages who write favoring all the positions you favor. Our editorial position is the opinion of the editorial board, and, as I don't expect to change your positions, I don't expect to change theirs. So, if you're looking for the editorial columns to be more reflective of yours, I'm not optimistic. But you can voice opposing positions, and they are welcome.

I am not sure why you would think that our hiring more minorities has anything to do any of the issues you bring up. How does our hiring minorities suggest that we won't be fair and balanced?

Excellent article John!

I think the exchange of comments above is *exactly* what diverse community discussion will looks like times 100 when the N&R creates it�s "town square". What will be your policy on moderation? At what point has someone gone to far? Just printing your policy won�t be enough. If the new town square is as open as say, Slashdot.org, it will be a rough place that will require calm but firm hands to keep the square an enjoyable place to be. Once you open the gates it will be very hard to filter the noise without cries of "Censor!". You"ll never be able to please everyone. I�m sure your thinking about this stuff. :)

Thanks, Brian. You've got it right, I think. "Calm but firm hands." We aren't interested in the wild, wild west; there are already plenty of places like that. So far this has been a world that has been self-correcting.

Hallelujah. Jim Wilson has pulled back the curtain and exposed this Amen Chorus. We can have our Ford in 3 colors: black, black or black. ! It will be the same elite chattering amongst themselves, still gasping for breath after Nov. 2 and muttering how could Bush have won: " I don't know a soul who voted for him "

Oh Robinson has a point that there is a forum for conservative views on the ED page . It's that sneaky subliminal bias , that group think among the elite , that will permeate the coverage in this " community ". Please John other than pablum
what do you think LOCAL TV serves up. That's it for now but I still think you should have a call in open line for those who don't have PCs.

Getting back to the topic, I think it needs be said, and the N&R staff and management need to be commended for including us (bloggers, non bloggers, and even poets such as myself) and giving us the chance to join in the conversation.

And those who can see nothing good in this experiment are simply too blind to see anything good at all. Sure, not everything will work as good as we hope it might, but show me anything that does. We're already experienced more benifit from this experiment than I thought possible and it's not yet begun. This little blog experiment has built a community and those who doubt it need to realize that my business competes with the N%R for the online share, yet I've seen bigger volume because of it.

And John, thanks for the plug, my site tracking loves you.

I guess we'll see, Fred. I will point out that you, Jim, Jasper, Chewie, Billy, David, Patrick, Ben and Brian are all able to join this discussion unfettered. I know they are glad to be part of the elite.

I think that your mean-spirited response to me is proof enough that you are not serious about creating a forum for ideas that are contrary to your own.

Jasper and Phred,

You are missing the way this new medium changes the game.

You're still waiting for someone to say what you want them to say, you're grousing that your views aren't being expressed. But that's the old paradigm.

Now you don't need to wait for anyone to say what you want them to -- you can start your own blogs, you can create your own online voices and communities -- your posts will be pushed into the public eye by aggregators, and if you have something interesting to say, people will pay attention to it, and it will get linked and read.

Jim Wilson's reduction of the local blog scene to an echo chamber is demonstrably inaccurate, but to the extent that people feel that way, it's in their power to do something about it.

To complain that the N&R's voice sounds the same in this new forum is to miss the point -- the idea here is that more voices -- YOUR VOICES -- are now added to the mix.

I have to agree with Ed. The people are crashing the gates. People can continue to rail against the old gatekeepers, or they can start competing on equal footing in the market place of ideas.

Greensboro101.com ( http://www.greensboro101.com ) gives people a number of tools to add their voices to the public discussion. You can even publish front-page articles directly to the site, with no editorial intervention. Don't like the media? Become the media.

John: How come comments don't allow hyperlinks?

Roch, you got me. I'll check with our interactive folks.

Jasper, I intended not mean-spiritedness. Many of the comments you made confused me. Still do. You don't trust us; I can appreciate that. As you can see from these blog comments and those on other blogs, you have lots of company. But there are also many voices weighing in and getting heard. If we don't build a site the way you like it, help us build it another way.

"...Please John other than pablum
what do you think LOCAL TV serves up?" -- Phred

Well, we do offer weather and sports...

Long-suffering: Since my days in the English and Humanities classes at Carolina I have been castigated for my consertive social and religious beliefs by the "elites". Recent comments from Chris Matthews, Walter Kronkite and William Sneider stating that we are uneducated and ignorant because of our views, are perfect examples of what I mean.(ergo: the "uneducated" scarcasm). I was a navy veteran when I entered college and the socialism and new age indoctrination did not sink in because I dared to dissagree.

So your editorial board is not a participant in this fairer community of ideas? Okay, no suprise there. You are right that there is more balance on the editorial pages than there was a few years ago. But from my point of view the skew is still far to the left.

My point about hiring practicies is that I do not think you can achieve a diversity of ideas, using skin color. I am not being racist, I think the measure a man(woman) is in his heart, mind and his behavior not the skin pigment. When I read statistics that say that 87% of reporters vote democratic, I think that a true quest for "builiding the community" will include seeking diversity in thinking that reflects your readership.

The rural vs. urban voter patterns in your total community should be guidline for your hiring if balance of ideas is a goal.

Jasper: I'm married to a UNC grad so I'd NEVER consider your type uneducated. I value my life too much.

Sure, the editorial board is part of all this. But it's opinion isn't based on popularity. It's based on the same things that I presume yours is: values, beliefs and facts. But you will be able to add to the discussion on those pages.

I never said that we were only going for a diversity of races. I agree that we're seeking a diversity of ideas and viewpoints. It's not either/or. It's AND, as in diversity of gender, age, race AND ideas.

Jasper, just by joining in here, you're already demonstrating that what we envision can happen. This is exactly the kind of dialogue/group conversation we hope to facilitate. And once we enable comments on individual stories, you'll have the opportunity to raise issues of fact and context directly with the reporter who wrote it, with the whole world watching.

Phred, the proportion of households nationally with Internet access has topped 80% (not sure about locally, but with all the colleges, might be even higher), and many of those who lack it at home can get it at work, school or public libraries. Given our limited resources, I wouldn't recommend transcribing phone-in comments as a good use of a staffer's time, but I just recommend stuff, I don't make policy.

Roch: Comments DO allow hyperlinks. See this post for other examples.

Whoops. OK, they don't allow hyperlinks on JR's blog, but they do on mine. Weird.

Whoops again; I can put links in POSTS but not in comments. I've alerted the authorities.

Again, I'll come to the support of Jasper.

Unfortunately, the N&R does view UNC grads as "uneducated" on some levels -- it strives (for whatever reason) to hire people who have been to useless Journalism (capital J on purpose) grad schools and have little or no actual writing or reporting experience.

There is a smugness to the mainstream media that anyone who hasn't been to some sort of grad school or Ivy League university is not exactly "educated."

Obviously, again Jasper was going for hyperbole, which no one could quite seem to get. But, again, there is a kernel of truth to his issue.

And don't even get me started about the N&Rs bias against anyone from UNC-Greensboro.

"Transcribing phone-in comments?" That's so '90's. Listen to them on www.Greensboro101.com. Call 'em in to 232-1515.

Jim, I've been involved in recruiting/hiring for the News Department here for almost a decade, and I can state flatly that your assertion is incorrect. We have a large number of UNC grads on staff, ranging from vets like Stan Swofford to medium-termers like Nancy McLaughlin to relative newcomers like Kellie Dixon. I think I speak for most editors here when I say we *prefer* people who have reporting/writing experience elsewhere to people with master's degrees but little experience. That isn't always what we can get, for a variety of reasons, but that's what we look for in most cases. Good candidates aren't so common that we can afford to write anyone off simply on the basis of where he/she went to school.

Also, we're the third-largest paper in the state and about the 114th largest in the country (out of about 1,500 dailies); we're not a starter paper for people with no experience. We occasionally hire very talented people straight out of school, but that's the exception, not the rule.

In case it's relevant -- which I doubt, but who knows? -- among our senior editing staff, JR went to St. Andrews in Laurinburg, M.E. Ann Morris went to Williams, editorial-page editor Allen Johnson went to UNC, Greensboro City Editor Mark Sutter went to Michigan State, High Point City Editor Ed Williams went to UNC, Features Editor Susan Ladd went to UNC and I don't know where sports editor Eddie Wooten went.

Thanks Lex. By providing that information, you have actually turned my view around (not completely, but drastically.)

Is there some sort of bio page planned in this new thing that will show where folks did attend college? (This goes toward making the newspaper as a whole more transparent...)

I think I heard some rumblings about it... but maybe I dreamt it.

Jim, that rumbling was mine. I suggested that item in my report.

Roch: Yes, that IS so 1990s -- 1996, to be precise, which is when our Web publishing software (soon to be replaced) was purchased.

Also, Eddie Wooten just moved to the government editor's job. Joe Sirera is now sports editor. I don't know where HE went to school, either. Sigh.

Links in comments should be working now.

Lex,

My comment about transcribing phone calls to print was not referring the N&R. And thanks a bunch for getting links enabled in the comments. Props!

I've been in meetings and High Point today, so thanks, Lex, for carrying my water on this one.

Roch: No problem. I'd've asked our guys to fix it sooner if I'd known there was a problem in the first place. As it happens, most of my comments on N&R blogs have been to address questions on things about which I have personal knowledge (and even control), so no linking to source has been required. That fact worked to our disadvantage in this case ... and what happened as a result is one tiny illustration of the self-correcting nature of the blogosphere, for Jasper and anyone else who remains skeptical.

JR:
I like your plan because an interactive marketplace of ideas on news and local issues urges us to think rather than simply read. It's too easy for me these days just to get mesmerized by the volume of information I read everyday. I stay much more aware when I'm reading blogs because there is the anticipation of responding and interacting - I'm often too lazy to spend effort articulating my ideas and responses when I'm just passively reading. What does this do for our community? Creates more alert and aware citizens who define their views more readily -- sounds like a great place to be.

Thanks, Michael. I've never thought about it that way. That's one of the things that I love about blogging: I learn from readers in this marketplace.

This all too tame and wussyfied. We need someone from the Jean Paul Marat School of Journalism. Throw the rascals out !!!

There's the name of your blog, Phred: The Marat Schol of Journalism.

For those of us who are uneducated, even if we didn't attend UNC, this is how the Wiki encyclopedia describes Jean-Paul Marat:

"Marat (May 24, 1743 - July 13, 1793), was a Swiss-born scientist and physician, who made much of his career in England, but is best known as a French Revolutionary. A member of the radical Jacobin faction during the French Revolution, he helped to launch the Reign of Terror. He was assassinated in his bathtub by Charlotte Corday.

"From a relatively early date, Marat advocated doing away with the monarchy and raged against more moderate revolutionary leaders. In July 1790 he wrote "Five or six hundred heads cut off would have assured your repose, freedom and happiness. A false humanity has held your arms and suspended your blows; because of this millions of your brothers will lose their lives". He approved of the September 1792 massacres of jailed "enemies of the Revolution" and established the "Committee of Surveillance" whose role was to root out antirevolutionaries. Marat composed the death lists from which the innocent and the guilty alike were executed."

John,

His paper was named L'ami du Peouple ! Kinda like the N & R , huh ?

It is unfortunate but Jasper is probably correct. Any idea other than the preferred line of thinking will be off handedly rejected. If the responses that I have read in the guise of Letters to the Editor are any indication of the "dialogue" to take place on "Town Square" then Jasper is certainly correct. Anyone making any remark or response containing any of the beliefs which Jasper stated is automatically attacked. Uneducated, moron, far-right, neo-con, nazi, Bush lovin , liar, fool, bible thumping right winger, non-thinking Christian idiot , bible believing hypocrite, war-mongering, murdering , closed minded religious nuts, etc, etc. These are just a few of the barbs being slung at anyone with a different opinion of the six or seven who take up all the space on just that section. Do you really expect the "Town Square" to be different? Anyone who offers a comment of level headedness and does not personally attack , throw innuendoes around and disagrees without being disagreeable with the "chosen few" is ignored. As evidence of this I offer the pithy comment made toward Jaspers comment:" No, Jasper, you will never be happy. You think the newspaper makes you suffer (?), and you make it clear that you will always prefer to stand outside the public square throwing rocks"
I found nothing in Jaspers comments that gave any indication of his standing outside the square throwing rocks. What I did hear from the responder was" Jasper as long as you hold any beliefs that I do not agree with you will not be welcomed into the "square" and if you enter you will be flogged." So much for a place for diverse opinions.

When the blogs first started I thought , wow, what a great idea to give people an opportunity to express and opinion, to be heard, to learn. I find it very disappointing as it has turned into nothing but a site for hashing and rehashing the elections, the war in Iraq, etc, while offering no facts other than propaganda written by both sides to back certain claims while offering no ideas for solutions to anything. It basically has turned into a mob led yelling and screaming match. To say the least I am disappointed.

I suppose now that my comments have been made they will be put into the same box as Jaspers. So I will join Jasper as one of the uneducated,( BS, ETSU, MS UNC, Post Grad VT) hicks from the sticks who have no right to offer input into the "virtual town square".