Amen.

That we have abandoned Education as a viable profession speaks volumes on the crisis called America, a crisis highlighted by America's drop (on an international level) from win, place or show to around 20th place in science and mathematics.

With the value of hindsight, and I were GeeDub, on September 12th 2001, I'd have made a BUNCH of Executive Orders. One would have been 220 days of genuine school (calculus for everyone, it's really not that hard, plus physics and chemistry, American and World history, English as a first language, wood-shop, 5-days a week of gym, plus introductions to farming, engineering design,electronics, computers, economics, etc.), with healthy meals to keep the kids going, and the occupation called "Teacher" turned again into somthing people can aspire to. A minor (but required) investment.

Here's a little discussed factiod: If a Factory wants to move to / invest in China, one of the perks offered by their Totalitarian Government is the building of a new school - right across the street from your new factory, providing you the skilled workforce you need. Want welders? You got 'em. Want Chemical Engineers? You got 'em. Want Software Geeks? You got 'em. Want bi-lingual assembly-people? You got 'em.

I'm curious to see how much money that teacher turned waitress is going to make if she takes off 2 months in the summer, a week at Christmas and a week in the spring at her new job.

First of all, teachers are not paid for the 2 months off in the summer. They are paid for only 10 months of work. They are given the option to stretch that 10 months of pay out to 12 months so they will still get a check in the summer but that means they bring home less a month. Not only that, teachers are required to use their own money to pay for supplies, which I'm sure a waiter/waitress wouldn't have to worry about.

Second, her time off from school is not the point this writer was trying to make. The people that we trust to be responsible for our children and teach them can make more money waiting tables. It really says a lot about our culture, since we seem to place food service over education.

Our children and their future should be number one over EVERYTHING. The people who are responsible for teaching our children should be treated with the respect and honor they deserve, and paid accordingly. After all, it takes a very special person to put up with a room full of 20-30 kids today!

Must be one heck of a restaurant job!

Teaching is a job. If you are in it for the money, you are in it for the wrong reason. Today's teachers get paid much more than the teachers from my generation.

I'm sorry, but if you annualize the average teacher's salary, they are making pretty decent. The fact that they get paid over 10 months or 12 months is their choice. I don't get that choice, but if it meant getting off for the summer, I'd take my salary payable over 10 months.

To heck with the teachers, what about our poor Dr. Grier..

This man is so strapped from his lowly paying superintendent job that he must go and work part time to make ends meet.

To think that Grier has to put in Eight grueling hours a day for GCS, then head out to Nova Univ. , UNC-G or fly out on a consulting mission, and sometimes ends up in disgusting places like Rancho Mirage, rattling a can for spending money.

People please, who could possibly qestion our teachers pay , when such disservice has been given to Dr. Grier..

Dang, how much do teachers want? I'd say whatever starting pay is for working only 9 months out of the year is a decent living wage.
Weaver dad has an excellent point.

My kid graduated from Weaver this past May. His English teacher had the class cutting and pasting magazine pictures as a way to express how they "felt" about the stories they read. My son's comment to me was "I thought I left my scissors in the 3rd grade?"

Same teacher had a discussion on a book the class read about a guy who was married to an invalid and had to take care of her. He meets another woman and the story spends a lot of time on the angst and turmoil that happens in his mind as he falls in love with her and leaves his invalid wife to live with his new love.

Summarizing the story in class my son said the "Man was scumbag who committed adultery on his crippled wife and left her for another woman, end of story".

A few other kids echoed the same sentiment and the teacher mutter to herself that she didn't think she'd teach that book again next year because no one "gets it".

Of course the solution from the school board will be to raise taxes instead of cutting waste.

I just had my first experience with Guilford Cty. Schools. We wanted to enroll our 4 year old into a preschool program this Fall. He did well on the tests they gave him. They then asked our income and told us we made too much money to qualify!! In fact her chart indicated that we would have to have a family of 20 (18 kids + me & my wife)to qualify & mind you we do not make a six figure income. They also told us our child could get in if he was learning disabled, which he isn't.

It's ironic that I pay more in taxes than lower income earners, yet they get to benefit from my tax dollars and I can't. The waiting room was also filled with Hispanics and I would venture to say not all of them were legal (just a guess), so illegals get to use my tax dollars as well.

Rich people can afford private preschool, poor people or people with less intelligent children can benefit from public preschool. Middle class families like mine are screwed either way. What a system.

Truth, Lilly and Weaver Dad- In Guilford County, a 1st year teacher with a bachelor's degree will start at just under $29K/year. A teacher with a bachelor's degree and 29+ years of service will earn just over $51K/year. A teacher with a master's degree a up to 2 years experience will earn just under $32K/year. A teacher with 29+ years of service with a master's degree will earn just over $55K/year. The Guilford County Schools have almost 8000 employees. Only a single digit percentage of those 8000 employees earn over $50K/year. John Hammer at the Rhino likes to stir things up a bit by posting salaries of city, county and school employees who make over $50K/year. (I've yet to figure out how in the heck John Hammer at the Rhino comes to the conclusion that $50K/year is such a huge salary? I'll grant him/you that $50K/year is a nice wage but it's a helluva long way from rich!) If you're a teacher making $50K/year or more, you have at least a bachelor's degree and 29+ years of service OR a master's degree with 23+ years of service. I know plenty of people who have worked at a company for 20+ years who have a month of vacation time given to them every year. I don't know anyone besides my wife who brings home 2 and 3 bags of work every night. She works on it, on average, 5 to 6 nights per week for 3 or more hours per night. She never catches up. She's always taking continuing education courses during spring break and summer vacation. The so called "work days" during the school year are totally consumed by all-day meetings, seminars, and anything else the administration, school board and the federal government can mandate to bog down an actual "teacher workday". In my 20+ years in Corporate America, I've never seen ANYONE with as much self-discipline and passion for their job as my wife. She's worth every damn penny that the state of NC and the County of Guilford pays her. In fact, with her experience and education, she could definitely find a job in the private sector making a heck of alot more that she makes now and probably wouldn't have to bring a thing home a night. And yes, she's fortunate enough to have a few weeks of actual rest and relaxation during the summer, and by God, in my humble opinion, she deserves it!

"Truth, Lilly and Weaver Dad- In Guilford County, a 1st year teacher with a bachelor's degree will start at just under $29K/year."
Still not bad for 9 months out of the year dude.
Most of us work 12, make less.
Sure obtaining one's degree should bump it up some, but hey with the benefits, and only 9 months of actual "work", its still not a bad gig.
She knew it ALL when she took the job, yall need to stop whining, really. :)

Jim R,

Thank your wife for us, from the children, whose welfare is really what we care about. I hope.

Dough- Thanks for your sentiments, I will most certainly pass them along to the Mrs.. Rest assured that she has the kid's best interest as her #1 priority. She's a 3rd generation teacher who always knew that she wanted to teach. If she didn't want to teach, she wouldn't take all of the crap that comes with the job.

Lilly- Sorry to come across to you like I was whining on my wife's behalf. She certainly would not want anyone to think that. You're right, she fully understood what she was signing up for all those many years ago. Thank goodness, she like most good teachers, don't teach with hopes of making alot of money. And NO, for someone with a Master's degree who has put in 20+ years of outstanding service, I DON'T think she makes alot of money. Think about this though...I have less education than my wife, I work 44 hours per week max, I leave at 5pm and don't have to think about my job again until 8am the next day, I get 4 weeks of vacation time per year, my medical and dental benefits are far superior to the State Plan and I make DOUBLE the yearly salary that my wife makes. You say my wife "works" 9 out of 12 months...I say you either can't read (get someone to re-read my above post to you...then do the math on the amount of work hours my wife puts into her "job" at school, on her time at home, during spring break and summer vacation)or you're simply jealous that you didn't afford yourself of an opportunity to make a descent living.

Let's see if we can remember our math now.

Teacher's are in at seven and out at four. That's nine hours because they work at lunch controlling the kids. That's five days out of the week which adds up to around forty-five hours. Add in the extra work (and it is work Lilly! ;P) brought home as Mr. Russell testifies for an extra ten to fifteen hours. You reach an average of around sixty hours a week of work. All that work for around $558 per week or $9.30 per hour for someone starting out.

Now before you start thinking they have the entire three months of summer off consider this. They stay for two weeks after the students stop coming and come back two weeks before students return. Also, consider that three months of summer vacation doesn't exist. It's more like two and a half months that the kids aren't in school. During that time teachers should be attending conferences and continuing education classes to keep up with new technology and theories on education. Some even teach summer school. The idea that teachers have their summers off is a myth. Just because the kids are out of school doesn't mean the teachers aren't.

How many of you are willing to get that kind of pay to put up with some of the kids out there? It takes special people to keep doing it year after year. Each of you, if you have kids, should thank your lucky stars that there aren't more like the teacher the writer of this letter mentions. Those are the ones after the dollar and have other things besides your children's best interests in mind. The benefits are in the knowledge that they make a difference in a child's life.

If any of you think it's easy to do that job and don't consider it work, I'll be more than happy to arrange it so you can teach next year for that pay and benefits. That is provided you meet the qualifications. I'm willing to bet most of you would quit before the first semester was finished.

I agree it is work. I have a family member who teaches at Gateway. (talk about being underpaid for what you do all day, and SPECIAL people to do it)
All I'm saying is you know what you're getting into when you decide to go into teaching, its a tough job, I couldn't do it.
I read fast, maybe I over looked something, however, imo, you Jim Russell are a total jerk. You have alot of nerve trying to call me out, talk junk about my ability to read or whether or not i'm jealous of your whiny little wife and/or the choices I made for my life.
Who put you in charge anyway?
Go cry some more about what you DONT have instead of being thankful for what you DO have. Thats what I do. :)

Teachers are underpaid. Well, so am I. You don't hear me bitching every other week in a letter to the editor about it though. It's my choice where I work and what pay I make to a certain point.

$29,000 for 9 months of work annualizes to $38,667. For 10 months of work, it annualizes to $34,800. Not bad starting pay for a bachelor's degree.

As far as Joe Schmoes math about how many hours they work. All I have to say is get real. Many of us work over 40 hours a week without pay. For most 'full-time' workers that I know, a standard workweek is 55 hours a week. So, you'll get little pity from the rest of us on that one. And, I'm sorry, but bringing hom Timmy and Jane's 3rd grade math tests to grade doesn't compare to the work that many of us do.

I've had MANY elementary school teachers and they have more time on their hands than they know what to do with. I'm not saying Mrs. Russell is that way, but I know many who are.

Lilly got this one right. Work sucks for most of us. Teachers get a hell of a lot more pats on the back and thanks for what they do then the rest of us. If you're going to take a job for whatever reason, then do it and stop your bitching.

"I've had MANY elementary school teachers and they have more time on their hands than they know what to do with. "

What I meant to say is that I've had many friends who are elementary school teachers.

The other way sounds way too Hannibal Lecter.

the "truth" usually sets you free. Believe in the "truth". Listen to the "truth".

Truth and Lilly: Your comments speak volumes about why it isn't necessary for me or anyone else to reply. Suffice it to say that a little bit of knowledge is a very dangerous thing. Good luck to the both of you. I hope that you are doing something with your life as noble as my wife has been doing for over 20 years and loving every moment.

Suffice it to say that yuppie scum can always be identified by the way they whine.
Dont you go worrying your yuppie head about what I'm doing with my life, Jim Russell.
You cannot begin to know the defination of nobility until you have walked a mile in my shoes mister.
So sit down.

Lilly, I think a better description is "elitist educrat" It's a breed that sucks at the teat of the taxpayers while standing on a pedestal of self -righteous nobility because "it's for the children".

very well said hugh. *applauding wildly* ty.

Okay truth, some people do work more than their share and they are on salary like teachers. I concede that you may have a job where you are underpaid. But don't go on a tirade and act like what teachers do isn't work because it's a third grade math test or that your friends don't appear to work. Granted, there are some teachers who, like you, thought it was an easy job. Those are the ones running to another career after the first year or two. It's a lot more than grading tests.

Let's say that little Timmy keeps failing that test. What do you do? Your job is to find out why and how he can be helped. In that case it becomes not about the sum of his answers but why he is transposing numbers or writing backwards or inattentive. It takes research and extra time. In today's world teachers have to identify and work with all sorts of learning and behavioral disabilities as well as the politics involved.

I guess it depends on how you see work. If it's your job, it's work. If it's someone else's job, then it's taking the summer off and having all that free time.

So, as Lilly so delicately put it, don't act like you know what someone else does until you walk a mile in their shoes. I, once again, extend the offer to put you in that situation and let's see how you do.

BTW, I never "whined" or "bitched" about my job. And, the Y in yuppie stands for young. I don't think that if you're in your forties you qualify as young anymore. Perhaps the word "muppy" would do. ;)

Jesus H. Christ!!!!

Lilly, truth and hugh must've had some of the worst teachers on the planet to hate them the way they do.

Almost every time teaching comes up on this board you guys go on a gripe-fest for days on end. Did you have one of those teachers from "The Wall" or something?

I'll give you that there are a lot of really bad people teaching. Some think it's easy money. Some of them are on a power trip. But, damn people, some are really good people. They go beyond what the job requires and they kick ass when it comes to educating our kids. I don't care how elitist you think that sounds hugh, it's the god-honest truth.

I think JR is coming of kinda smug and needs to realize some people just won't get it. Ever!

You people acting like you hate teachers need to know that Jesus is a teacher.

He taught us to love one another and not hate the way you've been doing here.

Why do you have to hate brothers and sisters?

Stop the hating and get to the love you have inside you.

Let Jesus teach you to love again.

Know that to hate is to condemn yourself to eternal damnation.

Don't damn yourself because your third grade teacher was terrible.

Give your old teacher the love of forgiveness and let the power of eternal life flow through you.

Especially that bitch Lilly and that asshole hugh!!!!!

truth....be damned!!!

Love and peace to you all,

Brother Love and the Gospel Train

Hooooooooo! Hooooooooo!

Brother Love,

I would like to say how infantile I thought that post was, but I can't because that was hilarious! I haven't had a laugh like that in a while. I had to pull myself back in the wheelchair.

Peace back to you Brother Love.

That's the best "truth" saying I've heard here. Sorry Lilly, yours' are little played to death.

Bravo Brother Love!

If Jesus had been a public school teacher he'd have been on Spring Break when the soldiers came looking for him.

Ok, so I'm a bitch. Sue me.
Played out? LOL. Ok.
Sarah, I was a State Employee for over 14 years, it was always the teachers vs us as to who got the raises. Guess who always got them? So yeah, I'm a little bit not over that to this day, as I watch the struggle continue for my friends still working hard for you in Raleigh.
My teachers were ok, back in the 60's and 70's. As good as they could be I suppose. I went to the best middle and high school in Greensboro. Back then, it isn't like it is now.
Amen to muppy's, Joe.
Feel the love: "Especially that bitch Lilly and that asshole hugh!!!!! truth....be damned!!!
Love and peace to you all,
Brother Love and the Gospel Train
Hooooooooo! Hooooooooo!"
what a great "CHRISTIAN" thing of you to say. I could not expect less for someone to post "IN THE NAME OF JESSSSUS", to post some HATE like that.
*makes a note*

Sarah:

I didn't mean to sound smug (I can see how one would think that - It all depends on how you're taught.

I took cal'c and it was just a bunch of formulas. Later I needed a refresher for a professional exam, so I went to a Community College, where the prof' loaned me taped sessions of her class.

By God I got it right away and ever so clearly. She described it so that it made Sense - where was this teacher 15 years earlier! It was the Way she explained it that made me realize it's logical - yea, ya still gotta know how to add, subtract, multiply and divide, but if really isn't THAT hard - folks just make it seem that way

Which takes me to this: "the system" does not distinguish good teachers from bad - and that is a major failing. Note that a good teachers for mm might not work for you and vice versa - and that too is a major failing.

James D,

Sarah referred to a "JR." It could've been Jim Russell.

You know, Jim did make a harsh comment towards Lilly, but to his credit he apologized.

I'm disappointed at how fast the rhetoric turned nasty. My reaction was like Sarah's!

I wish there was something I could suggest, like "grow a skin," or something. Man, that was ugly.

Just went back and re-read some posts (shoulda done that before posting).

I was mistaken, Jim R's apology was for possible mistaken impressions due to his first post, the harsh remark came later.

Nevertheless, he (and Kisler and Joe Schmoe)posted some useful information, and I was glad to hear it.

Dough, I have a skin, ok? I will not tolerate being judged and attacked. I am NOT a doormat.
I apologize that this got "ugly", however I learned along time ago to stand up for myself. If I don't nobody will.
I still stand by my original statement regarding teachers.

Lilly, I hope you don't take the Brother too seriously. I wasn't laughing at you or the others. That post broadsided me. I was going along with the whole religious thing and then....bam! He took a one-eighty and caught me. That's what I thought was funny about it. It could have been about me and I still would have laughed myself out of the chair. BTW, the same guy is doing the Towelee thing on the pot letter or at least they have the same address.

Ok Joe. Thanks. I cannot believe that someone with that sort of sense of humor (referring to the towelee thing), could hate Lilly so much, *shrug*.

I have a son who is a bar tender/front house manager for a well known restaurant chain in another town.

He makes about the same yearly salary as his mother who is a school teacher with 33 years experience in the class room, who has National Board Certification, who has two different education degrees and a Masters Degree.

Hey y'all. I'm Lilly's step sister, Orchid. We got the same mama but differnt daddies. Let me splain why Lilly comes cross like such a B. See, she only got to the 8th grade. See, she's what you call a "slow learner". She worked at the Pantry till she got fired for talkin' ugly to one of the customers. Well sir, ever sense then, she's been a gettin a check from the goverment cause she tole 'em she had a bad back (wink, wink) and couldn't work anymore. Also, Lilly ain't go no teeth since she lost her dentures in a poker game. Lilly is kinda shy bout her looks. She kinda looks like that woman from the Hee Haw Show (cept, that woman least had some of her teeth). Anyways, hope y'all give her some slack cause she can't help that she's such a B.

I think Brother Love was trying too hard to be funny. On top of that, I thought his use of Jesus's name was offensive. Some people think any joke at Jesus's expense is funny. I'm not one of them.

I think people read more into things than was said for the point of argument.

I don't hate teachers. Never have. I had a lot of really good ones and then I had some that weren't so good. Like I said earlier, Miss Russell may be one of the good ones.

The thing I do dislike is people throwing a pity party for themselves. It has nothing to do with the fact that they are teachers as much as it does that they whine so dang much. Like I said, I have friends that are teachers. If I hated teachers, would I call these people my friends? And I don't think they are bad teachers because they have free time. I was only trying to show that, from my perspective, elementary teachers are not the most hard-worked, underpaid, unprivileged people in the universe. Which is exactly what some people seem to believe when you look at the weekly whine from teachers and their loved ones.

I think if you took a walk in my shoes or in the Lilly's shoes, an accountant's shoes, a garbage man's shoes, or anybody else's shoes that holds a full-time job in today's fast-paced environment, you would find that we all have stressful situations in our lives to deal with. It's just that we don't write a letter to the editor expecting everyone to feel sorry for us.

Maybe it's just that these teachers are surrounded by spoiled brats every day, but every time I hear their complaints I think of kids not getting their way.

For instance, for the last umpteen years, we've heard more than a few of them gripe about pay-raises. Like the rest of us are swimming in bonuses and money in today's economy. They're lucky to have a job at all.

Then there are Jim Russell's words: "Think about this though...I have less education than my wife, I work 44 hours per week max, I leave at 5pm and don't have to think about my job again until 8am the next day, I get 4 weeks of vacation time per year, my medical and dental benefits are far superior to the State Plan and I make DOUBLE the yearly salary that my wife makes"

I guess when you got it like that, you would think most of our jobs are a living hell worthy of pity.

I gotta learn to recognize *whine* better. I though Jim R was just making a comparison.

BTW, Towelee/Brother Love's email address is fake. I tried to respond to him, and it bounced back.

Dough, A lot of the email addresses here are not on the up and up, even some of the more thoughtful and intellectual posters. Early on, there was this big discussion about allowing anonymous postings and/or legit emails. Apparently the N&R decided not require real names or emails.

It took someone else who posts here to clue me in on how many people post using different names. Since that time I check all email addresses to see a pattern. Quite an eye opener.

Truth, While I agree with most of your post, I think Jim was initially only responding to the letter, not whining. He did, however, cross the line when he impuned Lilly's intelligence.

I guess one's view about the legitimacy of teachers pay determines whether they think it is whining or not. If police officers wrote everyday about the pay in comparison to the sacrifice, I'd say they were protesting, not whining, because I think they have a legitimate gripe. I do think, however, LTTE may not be the appropriate or the most useful place to initiate change in a situation that affects only a specific group.

Orchid LOL.
Jesus Christ, what is WRONG with some people?
I guess I'm doing something right, there are some Lilly wannabe's out there. LMAO.
PS Shes lying like hell about everything she wrote.
I'm very attractive. :)

Sis Lilly, yer so red you've been married 3 times and still have the same in-laws!

Lilly's so red, she thinks Taco Bell is the Mexican phone company!

Lilly is such a redneck that her house still has the "WIDE LOAD" sign on the back!

Lilly's so red, she thinks opossum is "the other white meat"!

Lilly is SUCH a redneck, she thinks watchin' pro rasslin' is foreplay!

Lilly's so red she thinks those mountain men in that movie Deliverance were just "misunderstood".

Lilly's such a redneck that at Halloween, the jack-o-lantern on her front porch has more teeth that she does!

Lilly's so UGLY that she's banned from the NC Zoo because she "disturbs the monkeys"!

Lilly's so red that at least one hole in the ozone layer has been traced back to her car!

Perhaps I am missing something here. As near as I can tell from re-reading the posts in this thread, none of them actually came from teachers. The closest post I saw was from the husband of a teacher who provided a comparison of his education and income versus her education and income. Yet many people posting here complain about whining teachers. Where are the whining teachers in this thread?

I feel teachers deserve a place of honor, like police officers, firefighters, soldiers, as well as others, because they accept low paying jobs willingly to better society. I am glad there are those who have the strength and willingness to sacrifice in this role. That said, I would never teach in a k-12 setting. I have several friends who do teach. One has had scissors thrown at him and chairs hammered on his back while breaking up fights among students. He has had students and their parents harass and threaten him in public because the students did not get the grades they 'deserved'. Another teaches first grade. She knows that a lot of parents will not buy their kids basic school supplies; they tell her it is up to the school to provide these things. Since the school where she teaches does not have the money to buy these supplies, she gets them herself so that the kids in her class are not hurt. Over the course of the year she probably spends more than $2,000 on supplies out of her own pocket. She is fortunate that her husband makes enough money that she can afford to buy the supplies. The teachers who tell me about these things are not whining, they consider this a part of their jobs. They are just talking about what happened at work, like most people do when they are with friends and family.

Now if we want to talk about people who are grossly overpaid, how about professional athletes and coaches. A football coach can make a couple million dollars, just by working six months out of the year for a few hours a week on game day. Now that is a cushy ride!

Okay Orchid, you've got to stop this behavior now!

I'm in tears here, wet myself twice, and I'm typing from the floor.

Stop!

For the Love of God, stop before I pass out!

No more....okay, maybe one more.

No offense Lilly, it's just damn funny honey. ;)

Okay. I'm done. Just wanted to shut the ol' ugly hag up for a little bit. Oh yeah, one more: You know, Lilly's such a redneck that in the state where she's from, when she and her last hubby got divorced, state law mandated that Lilly and her ex were still brother and sister!

I am going to find my long lost sister and pay her a visit VERY SOON. *griN*

I can't help it...Lilly is soooo red, that she thought Sherlock Holmes was a housing project in Greensboro!

Hey y'all! Lilly is such a redneck that when she goes on vacation to Sea World later this summer, she gonna take her fishin' pole!!!

Y'all ought to hear Lilly sing the National Anthem...she's so red that she thinks the last line of the song is "Gentlemen, start yer engines!"

Lilly is such a redneck that she thought the O.J. trial was a taste test between Minute Maid and Tropicana!!!

Lilly's so red that her daughter has a bumper sticker on her car that says "My mother's an honor student at Northeast Middle School!"

Damn Orchid, you must of memorized Jeff Foxworthy or whoever's material or you are reading from a website and pasting.
Jesus!
You are NOT funny, you do NOT know me (yet), and I do not understand WHY you dont find something else to do with your time.
I am here for fun, if you think I'm a bitch, fine, I'm a bitch.
Now get over yourself and learn to play nicely before I stir up a pot of something for you that ajax can't take off.

Lilly is such a redneck that she thinks the license plate on her 86 Escort is personalized just cause her daddy made it in prison!

Lilly is soooo red that when she was in the 3rd grade, the teacher told mama that Lilly's gonna be a mathematical genius cause she's got 13 fingers!

Lilly is such a redneck that the 6th grade was the best 3 years of her life!

Lilly looks good compared to Orchid.

Lilly is sooooo red that her daughter's first words were "Attention K-Mart Shoppers".

Lilly is such a redneck that the centerpiece on her dinning room table is an original signed work by a famous taxidermist!

Lilly is so red, she thinks a quarter house is the little kiddie ride out in front of the Wal-Mart!

Lilly is suck a freakin' redneck that she lit a match to get rid of the stink she made in her bathroom...and her "house" exploded right off its wheels!

Lilly is so red AND stupid...that she thinks there ain't nothin' wrong with incest...as long as you keep it in the family!

Lilly is such a redneck that her kids too a siphon hose to school for show and tell!

getting back to the original letter, it didnt say what the mourned teacher was going to do at said restaurant - she may be a manager. or maybe it's an alternative "restaurant" and she saw the 20/20 story on how much strippers earn. leering balding men are undoubtedly less offensive than high school boys, plus she gets a bouncer. that said, it shouldn't take a muse to keep honors english "from getting dull", and teaching honors kids to read stuff people originally read for fun sounds like as plum a position as you can get without being related to a congressman. every job is a package and money's only a part. if the noneconomic rewards outweigh the craziness, it's a good job for you. if not, go find a job that doesnt serve kids but provides an adult environment. teacher pay (including retirement, etc) is good for the education/ability level of most teachers. i'd bet $10 ex-teachers on average earn no more than teachers per hour when all benefits and risks are accounted for. what needs fixin isn't the pay, but the conditions that make someone think $35k (and pension) with an english degree isn't a good deal.

Dave- you sound like you fit right in with the regular yahoos here...Spewing comments as if they were facts cause you know a little bit about everything don't cha buddy? Welcome home!

teachers in New Jersy start out at $42000 a year. Move to NJ. or better yet get a union it isnt like people are beating down the doors to teach. duh oh yes, why dont schools add to buildings instead of turning campus into a trailer park

Dang Orchid! I said ONE more. I didn't expect a novella. ;)

orchid said "Dave- you sound like you fit right in with the regular yahoos here...Spewing comments as if they were facts cause you know a little bit about everything don't cha buddy? Welcome home!"

when in rome... even the bacchanal orgies have local customary etiquette. i wouldnt want to commit a faux pas by qualifying my statements to acknowledge my irrational biases or meager grasp on the subject. and i'm a bit of a redneck.

Ady said move to NJ...Teachers there start at $42K a year! Well Ady, first off...NJ is a hell hole. Second, the cost of living is a heck of a lot more expensive there than in NC for the most part...So, no thanks to moving to NJ. $42K there is probably equivalent to much less than that down here.
Dave-take you Paxil and shut the hell up.

excepting the idiots who drop out of high school so they can buy a camaro (no offense, cooter), we all recognize that salary is just a component of compensation. teachers get a very nice package compared to the private sector jobs theyre typically qualified for when flexibility, security, accountability and retirement programs are factored in, or at least my parents did. The private sector is open and waiting - i know because i employ several exceptional ex-teachers. When we see a mass migration, let's raise teacher salaries. in the meantime, i suspect we hear so much about it because raising teacher salaries benefits a relative few (teachers and parents) at a cost to all (not just taxpayers, but those who need other government services - poor, mentally ill, elderly, etc). i also suspect continually characterizing teachers as underpaid unnecessarily diminishes their job satisfaction.

The medical sucks: BCBS of NC w/ $350 per person per year. Scripts copay are minimum $25 per. If you add spouse and/or kids, the cost is pretty steep. Retirement is very good. Flexibility? None that I can see. Principal expects you there at 7:15 am at the latest and has monitors at doors to confirm your arrival. 35 mins for lunch but you have to use up at least 15-20 mins of that getting students settled down enough so they can eat. Can leave at 3:15 if you want but you'll never get anything done unless you take EVERYTHING home and EVERYTHING can't be done at home. Most days I stay until 4 or 5...sometimes later. go pick up the kids from daycare, run to the grocery store to pick up something i need, go home, cook dinner, do homework with kids, give kids a bath, read story to kids, put kids to bed, go out to car and retrieve the mountain of work that I need to finish. sit at kitchen table working from 9pm till around midnight...take a shower and go to bed. I usually work at school 10 hours a day and at home on school work about 3 hours a night on average. No flexibility in my work...I have to put in 13 hour days just to keep my head above water. I'm not alone either! I guess I could cut out at 3:15 one day if I wanted...but it's not worth the headache that will result the very next day. Security? If I don't meet the goals set for me and my class, I get put on probation...If I subequently fail to meet them, chances are I'm going to have to look for another job. I would say I'm no more secure than anyone else in their job. Accountability? Yep, I have to be accountable to keep my job. Don't you? Gotta run...My break is up...I taking continuing ed classes at A&T.

the fact you continue to teach is prima facie, but rebuttable, evidence that the overall compensation is appropriate in the market, especially since teachers have a strong union. i'll hazard a guess that you get two fairly unique benefits from teaching: a schedule that allows you to coordinate and spend time with your children and your work is meaningful. to people who have to call in on or only get unpaid vacation, risk arbitrary layoffs, face personal liability, or do trivial boring stuff your job sounds pretty good. those are the people youre asking for a raise.

this is the first thing that came up when i googled 'are teachers underpaid'

http://www.educationnext.org/20033/14.html

another
http://www.missouri.edu/~tongrutr/Are_teachers_underpaid.pdf

Thanks dave, voice of reason.

Raisin, I believe you when you say you're stressed to death. Raisin(g) kids is tough. Especially when you're dealing with other people's kids too.

But chew on this:

You've got time to read and write on an N&R blog at 10:48 am.

And think about if you did all the things right like you do at your job now, and they still came in and fired you because you'd been at the company for too long (4 years). That's the world where most of us live.

I'm not taking anything away from your efforts because it sounds like you work hard at work and at home. The only point I'm making is that most good parent's do and most of us don't expect a commendation, a gold star, an annual payraise, a weekly write-up in the paper, etc for our efforts.

I've learned how to pat myself on the back. Teachers need to learn that trick, too.

Funny. Truth, Raisin had time to post on this blog at 10:48 a.m. because she was on a break at A & T while taking some continuing ed class...she was probably on a laptop. YOU on the other hand, and all the other sad sacks, post on the blogs every freaking day, all day long. YOU and the other LOSERS posting to this blog obviously don't have a real job. So don't even begin to tell a teacher who HARD everybody else works! You and I both are not stupid enough to believe the majority of working people come home and pay an adequate amount of attention to their owns kids AND manage to get in 3 hours of paperwork per night like alot of teachers.

a laptop on teachers pay? with kids? interesting.

i do post on the blogs a lot. it's damn addicting, what can I say.

my point is that she's right there wasting time with the rest of us.

and i'm not the one whining about my pay. the reason i have time to post on a blog is because i found a job that allowed me to do that AND keep my sanity.

more than I can say for someone who can't remember their name between posts.

and btw, my non-real job pays a hell of a lot more than that teaching job. so who is stupid?

it isn't how hard you work. it's how smart you work.

cooter,
NJ isnt that much more than NC. Lets see NJ has the highest % of students going to college, um the highest amount of money spent per student, they dont go to schools in trailers. As well as a low state income tax. Lower sales tax, NO food tax. as well as lower gas taxes. lets see i just filled up at $1.85 a gallon and i didnt even pump it. I wonder if the kindergarten teachers still refer to squares as special rectangles.

Truth, she's a teacher not a ditch-digger. Yeah, she said she has kids...she's probably got a hubby too!!! And a nice house and probably a couple of nice vehicles. Doesn't sound too "way out there to me" Truth...I didn't hear her whine either. Wasting time??? She said she was on a break. Can you give the girl 15 minutes to play on the internet??? She's a teacher, she's not in prison! She never said she doesn't have ANY free time. We're happy you make so much damn money Truth. Glad you work sooooooo smart too!!! Best of luck to ya!

i don't intend to bash teachers by any means. my point, in part, is that job satisfaction is significantly influenced by perception. teacher compensation is not bad compared to the alternatives. if you believe the teacher union hype, youre apt to believe you are underpaid and will be less happy with your job. if in fact you aren't underpaid by market standards, then you will needlessly suffer disillusionment or you will jump the fence and find it's more green because it's full of manure (like 12 month work years that string together with no end and no beginning). the public has an interest in keepin it real: if we allow the union to create the impression teachers get a raw deal, we won't attract the best teachers or we'll pay more (from what account?) for the same teachers.

I had mostly good teachers in my time as did my kids in theirs & I honor them and appreciate them.

I think this post misses the problems of teaching. Manditory standardized testing, parental indifference, and poor management have taken the joy from the profession. The money is a side issue.

I really don't understand the resentment towards teachers on this board.

If you were ever a State Employee you might understand a little bit better Marshall.
Furthermore, if you ever had kids in public schools and had to deal with nonsense (teachers blowing things waaaay out of porportion, who is the adult here), and taking time off work for this sort of dumb crap, you might understand a little better Marshall.
Teachers are for the most part ok. They just always got the raises, State Employees didn't, or if they did, they got waaay less. State Employees work a 12 month year.
There are some that do NOT need to be in the job, especially if they or their spouses whine about the pay.