"History will surely honor Bush and Blair as giants of their era."

I think Blair is FINALLY talking sense - Bush is still babbling.

"I wish more of us would voice support for them as the war against mindless evil intensifies."

I support the following:

1 -- The Muslim community needs to stand up and fight the forces of extremism .. if they don't, the west will have no choice but to take more draconian measures.

2 -- Non-Muslims need to take a hard look at the following policies - all named by bin Laden and others as a core recruiting tool for their jihad:

2a -- Understand shifting European and American policy of on-again / off-again support for dictators (ever hear of Saddam Hussan?) has been a serious mistake.

2b -- Dictators (and un-holies - ever hear of Saudi Arabia?) running countries in the name of big corporations (well the dictators do it for themselves and the corporations enable it with horrific piles of cash).

2c -- Western exploitation of their oil (hmmm, again that corporation word), enabled by horrific demand from we-the-consumer driving Government subsidized SUV's (C.A.F.E. standards and $100,000 tax write-offs for Hummers). If I may digress into a tree hugger for a second, had Bush the Babbler come out on 9-12 and stated the need to start conserving energy instead of buying duct tape, the world would be a better place.

2d -- Perceived injustice against the Muslims in the Palestinian territories, Iraq, and Afghanistan ... and the jihad perception of one-sided support of Israel.

3 -- ... and don't forget that lit'l'ol occupation of Iraq thing ... (perception is reality)

COMPARING BUSH AND BLAIR TO ROOSEVELT AND CHURCHILL IS SACRILEGE.

Hmmm,sounds like Mr.Beerman was witness to the start of WWII. As far as I'm concerned that puts him in a much better position than I to make judgments about liking Bush/Blair & Roosevelt/Churchill.

A piece of starry eyed pollyanish partisan pap like this is bound to get the blood stirring. Before things get too silly round here I'll just say it is ironic to compare Bush to FDR when Bush has been dedicated to tearing down many of FDRs most notable accomplishments.

Otherwise I'll wait for historys judgement on the matter.

I agree with Marshall. History will decide what impact these two have and will have.

I keep hearing the XTC song "War Dance" in the back of my mind. I wish these guys would stop making it so bloody appropriate...

What a laugh comparing our lying, AWOL, draft dodging, so called leader to these men. Bush and his family ties to bin laden family and Saudi Arabia have contributed more financially to the terrorist than any family here. Is it strange Bush’s' administration is full of draft dodgers Rove, Chaney Oh, I forgot they are Republicans so they are able to lie, steal, and murder honorably what a bunch of hypocrites people in this country have became! Where is Bush today AWOl as usually from his job in Washington while our troops are fighting on two fronts and gas is at $2.20.
FED

If I recall my history correctly, Winston Churchill used to stroll through the streets during the Blitz while Nazi bombs fell all around. He refused to cower in fear, instead presenting himself as a symbol of indomitable British spirit.

FDR appeared in public at the height of World War II. Harry Truman still took his wildly fast walks along the Mall in D.C. with scarce Secret Service protection.

George W. Bush runs to an underground bunker whenever a Cessna flies too close to town.

I'm just *saying*, is all...

WHAAAAAA, WHAAAAAAAA, WHAAAAAAA.

Jackie: "What a laugh comparing our lying, AWOL, draft dodging, so called leader to these men."

I thought you were talking about Slick Willie before I read the rest of your post.

Christopher: "George W. Bush runs to an underground bunker whenever a Cessna flies too close to town."

Bush wasn't in Washington that day.

Yard dog, will they ever come up with anything new to add to the playbook?

Dan
It is the same playbook used by the republicans when they were after Clinton.

Dan, I think he was in town on the last Cessna threat, and IIRC, he went deep in the ground. Just trying to keep it real, you know...

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/06/30/capitol.evac/index.html

Eric, this incident you sent involved a Beech King Air, which is a twin turboprop and SHOULD be flown by professional pilots. Much more of a threat than a Cessna 150 in the first incident, which carries 26 gallons of fuel & travels at 90 knots. Either way, that is the world we live in now and the FAA ain't screwing around with errant airplanes in the DC area after 9/11.

The FAA puts up what the call TFR's (temporary flight restrictions) within a 30 nautical mile radius of where the president is, such as in Gaston County today. I'm a pilot myself and receive these TFRs via email when the prez is in the area.

My point to Christopher was to get his facts straight, Bush was out of town during the Cessna 150 event.

Suit yourself. I think if the president had been in Washington for the Cesna, he would have gone through the same routine. The point that started this was to contrast Bush and earlier presidents. Do you think Truman would have run every time a radar blip entered that 30-mile radius? Or Churchill, for that matter?

I think he would have gone thru the same routine too, as I said these are the times we are living in. If a Democrat ever gets reelected, they would do the same thing, it's called protocol and has nothing to do with being a wimp, etc.

I fully expect you're right about following protocol... which is one reason I think comparisons between today's leaders and Churchill or FDR are a pretty long stretch at the least.

Beerman's letter has to be a joke, tongue in cheek. If it is it's the funniest since Dan Quaille tried to compare himself to Jack Kennedy. If it's not a joke then it is the dumbest letter to the editor ever and proof positive that John Robinson is a repub and the N&R is just another rightwing, rhino-times rag.

I still say let history judge the men.

If in twenty years the middle east is full of democracies then for those opposed to the war like or not he will be seen as a great visionary in a violatle time BUT if the middle east explodes into a civil war bringing on the next world war then he will be viewed as one of the worst presidents ever and his supporters will be asking what the h*** went wrong.

But let history judge who will be great and we have about 20 years to go before we can make that judgement.

For the record, Bush was not "in town" when 10,000 people were evacuated from Capitol Hill because a Cessna was headed towards the White House. George is never in the White House. He's either on the ranch or travelling around promoting lousy policy or as in this case, he was in Maryland taking a bicycle ride.

His own staff apparently find him so incompetent in a crisis that nobody bothered to tell him about it until it was well over, even though Laura had to be evacuated from the White House.

As far as comparing Bush and Blair to FDR and Churchill, sorry Bill but there's no comparison. It's lovely to have this nostalgia for "the good war" but that's not what these guys have got us into and their failure to be honest with their respective citizens about the process and the problems leaves them closer to Mussolini and Hitler than those two great leaders of the "big one."

Hayes, that was one of the wisest pieces I have seen you write, sandwiched right in between two hack jobs, as usual, by yallerdawg & the elitist Libby.

Let history tell, we shall see. I remember when Reagan was called an idiot by leftist hacks, who was going to start WWIII with the Soviets and he proved them wrong.

"it is the dumbest letter to the editor ever and proof positive that John Robinson is a repub and the N&R is just another rightwing, rhino-times rag." What ever happened to the idea that the op-ed section should print different views dawg? I see Bush bashing letters almost daily in the N&R.

Why would you call me an elitist Dan? Because I spend the time to get well-informed or simply because I don't agree with you?

And by the way, Mr. Beerman, I think it was a great letter and I honestly wish I could see it your way. I simply don't agree.

Dan asks:Will they ever come up with anything new to add to the playbook? Let's see,I have read here today:"Incompetent",Lying","AWOL","Draft dodger"(wrong prez there,just for the record)"hypocrit","murderer",Oh,wait,here's a new one! The "Babbler". Oh,no, sorry. Seems I recall Howard Dean or maybe it was Julian Bond use that one last month.

Every critisism is "out of the playbook" and therefore not valid. Is that chestnut "out of the playbook"?

Sometimes things are said & then repeated for a reason. I think I have detected common themes on all sides of issues that could be construed as "out of someones playbook".

Enough already of the same old arguments. The Democrats have been pouting every since Gore lost and they are blinded by all their lust for left-wingedness. Just because Bush used the wrong reason (ie.WMD) for the war, this war is neccessary. Saddam had used these weapons in the past on the Kurds and tortured and killed many of his own citizens who were not in line with the Bathist party. What would you peacemongers have us do? Pull out and wait for the Jihad to return to American Soil as per 9/11. And yes,I had both a daughter and her husband serve in the military the first years of this war.There are many good things happening in Iraq-they just do not get the press coverage the suicide bombers get. Most Iraqies are happy to be rid of Saddam and to have the chance at freedom. But the Muslim extremists who declared this Jihad on all non-Muslims must not be allowed to continue unchallenged. If the Muslim people will step up to the plate and control these extremists, we will be out of there in a heartbeat. As for the war being for oil as a lot of Leftists claim, then they should stop using any product which is derived from a barrel of oil so we do not have a need for the oil. Iraq never was a huge contributer to world oil supplies any way. We could just sit back and let the Middle East continue to breed resentment towards the rest of the world for not wanting to live in the first century and allow them to repeated destroy lives or we can fight for freedom from the bondage of their beliefs. As for the political cartoon, history will be the judge.

Dan
Speaking of using old playbooks.(refering to david clay)

Here,here,David Clay! The same old attacks on Bush gets tiresome. In the "how to bash Bush" manual above,in chapter one, paragraph two,subsection 2c Bush is called a "babbler". Such childish name calling is what the left is reduced to. This is pathetic.

Dear Dan, to which part of a playbook do you presume I partake your side that believes Dan Rather could do no wrong or my side , who is enlightened enough to seek out my information beyond the pages of the News-Record and Network news propaganda machines.

David
I think you meant that for me.Dan is on your side.
Go a read many of your fellow bloggers they attack the same way as do many from the other side.

"blinded by their lust for leftwingedness". Newly put but meaning is old.

And if you read most of the "Liberal" comments about the war you will quickly come to a conclusion that while many oppose the why we are in Irag most,not all , but most have NOT advocated leaving Iraq early or leaving before the job is done or turning iraq back over to sadaam. And more important most of the liberals here have been ardent supporters for the war on terrorism,ie afghanistan, but have not bought into what is viewed as the BS about Iraq.

So your portrayal of the liberals here is old and as always badly misrepresented of what they argue
What was new for me was the comment how Iraq has not been a big oil supplier. i am sure that raised some eyebrows.

But what I felt was missing was the at the end comment so many use here "Bush won so get over it"

Jon The same old attacks on liberalshave become extremely tiresome also so maybe you need to throw away that "How to bash liberals" manuel as well.

Kerry lost,get over it.

Jon let's hear that again! And of course while we argue about Bush and Iraq, Our governor and the Raleigh bunch are busy finding new ways to get more taxpayer money.

If Roosevelt and Churchill walked in the streets with no protection in today's world, they would be dead.

I always like how people compare other people to people who lived a long time ago in order to make them look good. When, really, history has softened the edges on their predecessors. The real Roosevelt and Churchill were just as human as their present-day counterparts.

Truth is right about the street. Anybody is lucky to survive walking the streets in the larger cities today. While everyone wants to talk about that time in history, they also forget how the British tried to appease Hitler's Germany and entered peace treaties during the thirties when he was doing his huge military buildup(much like China today).