I'l wait fot the investagation to run it's course on this, but it looks like the libs are grasping straws here in an effort to get to ANYONE in the Bush administration.

Sounds a lot like the repubs when they were trying to get anyone in the Clinton admin. I guess you could say Turd Blossom is foist on his own petard.

Yard Dog, Is that the only song you know? I figure it must be because that's the only one you keep singing. Even if one loves the tune it gets wearisome after hearing it everyday for months. Why not try being original for a change?

Yvonne, Why are the lefties so intrested in national security now? The same people who want to turn the terrorists loose to kill again are now very worried that a cia agent has been outed.
What's wrong with waiting for the investigation to end?
Ps: I'm not worried what you or any one else thinks of me.

The Dems have completely and totally exhausted their arsenal of smears, slanders and outrageous allegations to use against Bush so they continue beating the proverbial dead horse with Rove.

The longer this story runs the more exposure Joe Wilson will get and the public will finally learn that he did indeed campaign for John Kerry, Did donated 10:1 democrat vs. republican and will be outed a a treasonous partisan hack.

Jail time is in his future.

Valerie Plame outed herself, she was the darling of cocktails parties in DC as the "secret squirrel." She finagled to send her husband on a CIA trip to Niger, knowing he would come back with a negative report and further hurt the Bush administration, which they both hate. She violated federal election lasws by using an alias to donate money to John Kerry's campaign.
I hope her and her sham husband both go to jail.

As for originality, what is this letter? The same points are listed on "moveon.org." Don't hear Yvonne whining about that. Moveon.org is urging all it's members to write the newspapers and urge them to get back on the Rove band wagon,AND send more money to them of course.

Yard dog, I can't speak for other lefties but I'm not the least bit worried about whether Plame was "outed" or not. And if you remember I posted last week we need to wait til Fitzgerald completes his investigation. I have my opinion about Rove but it is inconsequential to me if he broke any legal laws or not.

What I find interesting is Plame's involvement with the CIA wasn't splattered all over the news until AFTER her husband proved Bush's allegations about Saadam buying uranium were false. And Bush's reaction to the "outing" resulted in him making some strong statements about the deed. Apparently he thought it significant enough to condemn it. Now most everyone in this forum is trying to minimize its importance and making judgements left and right about it being contrived by democrats.

All the BS being spouted here by the right-wingers is what I was referring to being the same old song. It would be refreshing to read something original from one of you for a change.

"After her husband proved Bush's allegations about Sadam buying uranium were false". Hey,News Fash,Yvonne: Sadam WAS trying to buy uranium from niger. The incompentent Wilson never found out anything it. He was too worried about raising money for the failed Kerry camp.

It's beginning to look like Wilson deliberately provided a false and misleading Niger Yellowcake report for the sole purpose of attempting to damage the Bush Administration.

That, IMO is treason and should be treated as such.

So sorry boys. Plame and Wilson freely disclosed the nature of her work to friends and neighbors before this eruppted. Wilson has been caught lying. The press outed her well before Rove did. Its time to MOVEON,ERG!

There are seven "Talking Points" listed on today's MoveOn.org web page. They are listed for the use of people writing a Letter to the Editor of Local, Regional, and National newspapers. Six of the seven points are factually incorrect. The seventh point suggests that writers "speak from the heart." I suppose that this is because they have no facts, only emotion, to try to trash Karl Rove, and by extension, President Bush.

Bruce, here are the seven talking points you reference from Moveon.org, which six are "factually incorrect?"

- We know that Karl Rove revealed the identity of an undercover CIA agent to reporters Matt Cooper of TIME and columnist Robert Novak.

- Karl Rove either broke the law or was grossly negligent with national secrets yet he still works in the White House.

- Outing an undercover CIA agent hurts our national security.

- President Bush should keep his promise and fire Karl Rove.

- There needs to be a full accounting to the American people about what happened in this CIA leak case.

- Karl Rove and other leakers in the White House outed a CIA agent in order to discredit a critic of the Bush Iraq policy.

- Finally, speak from the heart about what makes you angry about this scandal.

Would one of you repub lying idiots explain why the Whitehouse went to so much trouble to cover up Turd Blossoms crimes. Come on why all the lies? If Rove did nothing wrong why lie about it? Can he not help but lie is he sick? If Rove is innocent why did dubya himself lie? I know you will have to turn on your radios to get the answer so I'll wait.

Yard dog, Would you please provide credible proof that Saadam was trying to buy uranium? All I have read and heard is mere speculation from the right. And you can forget Coulter, Hannity, Rush or NewsMax as they are anything but credible.

I've never heard a Democrat want to "let the terrorists go"

Such accusations are just plain stupid and ignorant.

Yvonne,It doesn't matter who I cite, you will say they are not credible. What makes Fox news any less credible than your sources? They don't always tell the story with the slant you want to hear? I'll take Hannity's word over Ted Kennedy's any day of the week. You guys are so blinded by hatred for Bush that you refuse to see anything that doesn't dovetail with your wishes.
Have a nice day!

brian,keith or harper. name calling doesn't change the facts. Who wants to shut down gitmo and give the terrorists attorneys? What are the lawyers for? To see that they are detained even longer? Gimme a break.

Yard dog, some of us want to see the US Constitution upheld. Why do you hate American values?

"Would you please provide credible proof that Saadam was trying to buy uranium?"

According to the Washington Post:
"Wilson's assertions -- both about what he found in Niger and what the Bush administration did with the information -- were undermined yesterday in a bipartisan Senate intelligence committee report."
"The panel found that Wilson's report, rather than debunking intelligence about purported uranium sales to Iraq, as he has said, bolstered the case for most intelligence analysts."

"Yesterday's report said that whether Iraq sought to buy lightly enriched "yellowcake" uranium from Niger is one of the few bits of prewar intelligence that remains an open question."

"The report also said Wilson provided misleading information to The Washington Post last June. He said then that he concluded the Niger intelligence was based on documents that had clearly been forged because "the dates were wrong and the names were wrong."
"Committee staff asked how the former ambassador could have come to the conclusion that the 'dates were wrong and the names were wrong' when he had never seen the CIA reports and had no knowledge of what names and dates were in the reports," the Senate panel said. Wilson told the panel he may have been confused and may have "misspoken" to reporters. The documents -- purported sales agreements between Niger and Iraq -- were not in U.S. hands until eight months after Wilson made his trip to Niger."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A39834-2004Jul9.html

Also if you do not find the Washington Post credible, you can read the report for yourself: http://intelligence.senate.gov/iraqreport2.pdf
Niger part can be found on pages 36-72.

Roch, the terrorists have no constitutional rights. That is where you guys have missed the boat. You want to allow them trial by jury. they are enemy combatants, not us citizens.
Trish,you are wasting energy typing. they will never believe anything that differs from their world view. NOTHING is credible except perhaps Kennedy or Shummer calling Bush a liar and a killer of inocent iraqi civilians.

Yard dog, first, you are willing to accept that someone is guilty by decree, very un-American.

Second, the Constitution guarantees certain rights to ALL people under the power of the US Government, not just US citizens (very unpatriotic of you knot to know that).

With the yard dogs of this country spewing their ignorant excuses for the subversion of our Constitution, I fear the terrorist are winning in ways they never imagined.

Roch, show me where in the constitution guarantees "certian rights" to all persons. Our enemies have no such rights and rightfully so. Also noted is the lack of substance to your arguments,hence the name calling. Left up to you libs,we would all be dead by now.

So Lonnie you go to a lot of DC cocktail parties do you?

Yard dog, there was no name-calling.

There is a theme running through this thread that compells me to make an observation.

Everything the current Administration says and does is dependent upon the same thing that some contributors to the comments on the "Letters" rely, as well as others on the extreme right, and that is what Joseph Goebbels (and Hitler before him, but in a slightly different context) called "the big lie."

So even a man as evil as Hitler can be right on the money when he says (Mein Kampf):

"All this was inspired by the principle - which is quite true in itself - that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying. These people know only too well how to use falsehood for the basest purposes."

The right is utterly dependent on this for its survival, and ever since the early 80's has had the mainstream media falling blindly in line. Lies so absurd that they *must* be true because nobody would be stupid enough to fabricate such a lie.

Fortunately, many Americans never fell for this and continued to believe their own eyes and ears rather than the hysterical shouting of the liars, and more and more Americans are catching on every day as the lies get more and more egregious. No matter how much the Bill O'Reilly's and Sean Hannity's of the world may wish it, American will never become Nazi Germany.

Roch: "With the yard dogs of this country spewing their ignorant excuses for the subversion of our Constitution, I fear the terrorist are winning in ways they never imagined."

I would rephrase this sentence to read: "With all the Moveon.org, Micheal Moore, Jane Fonda, Dick Durbin, mainstream media, & like minded left wing useful idiots obsessing about Gitmo, I fear the terrorists are winning in ways they never imagined".

I apologize for the misspelling of "compels" in the post immediately above.

Regards to all of you, even the extremists among you, who are tragically, tragically wrong, about pretty much everything.

:-)

But that is one of the many great things about my country, *our* country, which is that it is your *right* to be as tragically wrong-headed as you choose.

Tony

Tony, you're a year late with your silly illustration, moveon.org compared Bush to Hitler last year during the elections. It's also been done in this blog before. Try something original.

"No matter how much the Bill O'Reilly's and Sean Hannity's of the world may wish it, American will never become Nazi Germany."

That was original, but so silly you discredit yourself and your argument.

Dan, I'm sorry that I confused you; that was not my intent.

I never compared Bush to Hitler; Bush is more sane and more stupid than Hitler, and indirectly responsible for the deaths of "only" a few tens of thousands of people rather than millions (at least so far, but he still has three years to go).

What I was pointing out was "the big lie" has worked over the last 25 years with the complicity of the media (don't question the liar), but people are beginning to catch on. And more and more will catch on, so that soon, for a generation or two, Americans will be more skeptical of "the big lie" and those who rely upon it to get what they want.

I will freely admit that my writing sometimes might most accurately be described as "turgidly arcane," but I've re-read my post above (caught another typo, sorry) and really don't see how you could have interpreted it the way you did.

With greatest respect,
Tony Ledford

In 1971, Congress passed legislation to repeal the Emergency Detention Act of 1950 and to enact the following language: "No citizen shall be imprisoned or otherwise detained by the United States except pursuant to an Act of Congress." The new language, codified at 18 U.S.C. ?4001(a), is called the Non-Detention Act. This statutory provision received attention after the 9/11 terrorist attacks when the Administration designated certain U.S. citizens as "enemy combatants" and claimed the right to detain them indefinitely without charging them, bringing them to trial, or giving them access to counsel.

What troubles me about your approach, "yard dog", is not that you don't care that they're being detained indefinitely - it's that you don't care how they've been defined as 'enemy combatants'. What happens, "yard dog", when they decide to define YOU as an enemy combatant? And don't say they won't - you don't know the definition. No one does. Oh, you do? What is it? Islamism? Dark skin? Threatening speech? Public demonstration of hate for a specific group? Possession of more than three guns?

On the off-chance the the hundreds of detainees in Guantanamo are ALL terrorists, why don't we get the prosecution ball rolling? Really prove to the world that we believe our system of checks and balances can work? Show everyone that EVERY part of American democracy works, not just consumerism? Or do you not believe in America?

Left up to all you hawks, we'd all have webcams in our bathrooms by now. Your abolition of freedoms really HAVE let the terrorists win, you know.

Tony: "What I was pointing out was "the big lie" has worked over the last 25 years with the complicity of the media (don't question the liar), but people are beginning to catch on."

Agreed Tony, the big lies perpetuated by the LEFT leaning mainstream media have been going on for longer than 25 years. The big 3 networks, a few weekly news mags, and liberal newspapers were the only source of news information. Now thanks to talk radio, Fox News, and the Internet, there are other resources available, even for you lefties.

I know you dismiss Fox News as nonsense, but they have liberal commentators on the payroll and frequent liberal guests. What you guys object to is that a conservative viewpoint is also allowed, something you don't see too often in mainstream media. There is a reason Fox News is killing all others in the ratings, people want to hear different viewpoints, not just liberal.

I have met Sean Hannity twice. What you guys hate about people like him & Rush is that they make no bones about being conservative. They don't cloak it like Dan Rather does with his liberalism. To say he wishes America would be like Nazi Germany is bunk, to put it nicely.

Forgot to mention you dog catcher. If you are what you say, would you please catch yellowdog and put him in the pound?

What? Dan Rather cloaks his conservatism with liberalism? He's really a conservative, but hides it with liberalism? You aren't making any sense.

Yellow Dog is smart enough to stay inside on a hot day, while the Yard Dogs slowly cook their brains outside. Sorry...

Good attempt at spin SPUN. Rush & Hannity don't cloak their conservatism as Dan Rather does with his liberalism. Get it?

Dog Catcher: maybe yellowdog will come out and howl at the moon tonight, then you can catch him.

Dan, a few points.

1. I never said Bush was Hitler (I repeat this).
2. I don't have anything against Sean Hannity. I was just pointing out that he knows how to use "the big lie."
3. The "liberal media" doesn't exist; the mainstream media give right-wingers a free ride.
4. Sean Hannity (and his ilk) *do* want America to be like Nazi Germany in that he wants Americans to *continue* to fall for "the big lie" rather than listen to their own ears and look with their own eyes.
5. I have nothing against conservatives. The Bush administration is not conservative, it is radical. (Check the dictionary if you don't believe me.)
6. I do not dismiss Fox News as nonsense, I merely point out that it is by far the most blatantly, overtly biased news channel and that its bias is in favor of the right wing, as Rupert intended all along, proto-facist that he is. And when you state that it is "killing all others in the ratings" I'm assuming you mean the other cable news outlets, as all three broadcast networks (Fox doesn't count as it doesn't have new, leaving that to its cable sister network) have three or more times as many viewers as does Fox News. (Google ACNielsen and InsideCable for some stats.)

You seem to be having a one-sided argument with something I never said. Seems too hot to me at the moment to waste that kind of energy, but that's one of the things that makes America great, you can do whatever you want to as long as you don't break any laws or hurt anybody. Or if you're powerful enough, you can even hurt somebody and get away with it. :-)

As always, with profound respect and admiration,
Tony Ledford

Q: How do you know you've won an argument with a conservative?

A: He changes the subject. (Apologies to all the female conservatives...)

Tony, don't waste your energy on these folks... I learned a long time ago to spot my victory when the conversation changes abruptly from something like Civil Rights to colors of dogs.

Read between the lines and their spittle-moistened vitriol will tell all. You've done fine, Tony - not only did you make some good points, but Dan got them, too... no matter how stubborn he acts.

Tony,

1) Not saying you said Bush is Hitler, but the use of Bush & Hitler in the same breath for any comparison is hackneyed and inaccurate.

2) Sean Hannity is exposing the truth that has been denied for decades by the liberal mainstream media. Again he does not cloak his conservatism, rather he is very proud of it.

3) That statement is delusional. I suggest you read "Bias" by Bernard Goldberg.

4) Again, repetition of a silly statement. Hannity has spoken out many times against tyranny. Please prove your big lie theory as related to Sean Hannity.

5) Yeah, yeah, yeah, please something more original.

6) I guess Fox News needs to fire Alan Colmes, Susan Estrich (sp?) Ellis what's his name, and never allow a liberal to speak on the shows. That will make it purely proto-fascist as you think it is now. Yes I am referring to the cable news ratings.

It is hot, but I'm not. AC is working well. Gotta go now, the kids will be home any minute.

Dan,
Alan Colmes is hardly a liberal.

Yard Dog,
What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
Give the accused terrorists access to lawyers, have trials and convict them if they are found guilty. THAT is the American way.

I guess all these neo-cons's panties are in bunches because they are beginning to fear a Hillary presidency. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

Dog catcher, I don't care that they are being detained indefinately? I'd rather have them locked up in gitmo than over in afganistan or iraq blowing up the troops there. As for the defination of them,I'd say a good starting point to consider is a person of middle eastern decent. I know this rubs against the liberal grain, but hey,who was it that brought down the world trade center and murdered 3,000 men women and children? If they happen to have dark skin,so be it.
"Webcams in every bathroom by now. Your abolition of freedoms". Tell me,dog catcher exactly what freedoms have you had abolished? Have to have your bag searched before boarding a plane? OOOOOHHHHHH, I'm really scared of that! Have to show ID to get a driver's license? Tell me.

Dan, I suggest that you read:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0465001769/whatliberalme-20/104-9491288-9978354

concerning item 3 above. Unlike conservatives, I don't suggest that someone is "delusional" just because they disagree with me, but only when they argue with the facts.

On item 1, you still don't understand, so I'll drop that one.

On item 4, all right-wingers decry any tyranny other than that which they wish to impose. I cannot give you a contemporary example of Hannity's "big lies" as I quit watching Hannity (and Fox News altogether) a couple of years ago, but at that time he was vigorously repeating Bush administration lies about Iraq having WMD and ties to Al Qaeda, claims which even the Bush administration subsequently admitted were unsupported (see below). This (and Hannity's ilk in general) is emblematic of the right-wing corporate MSM's (mainstream media) complicity in "the big lie."

On 5, facts are facts; originality or banality has nothing to do with it. Again, I urge you to look up the terms in the dictionary, either hard copy or online.

As to 6, the "token liberals" on Fox are a joke, or at least Colmes is; I never heard (or heard of) the others.

Dog, I appreciate your comment, but I'm not really trying to present any sort of argument here, but simply laying out various facts. As you and I know, however, there are those on the fringe, outside of the mainstream (unless they work for a broadcast or cable network news show [G]), who are made uncomfortable by facts that don't neatly fit in their imagined reality.

* two months after invading Iraq:
http://www.sundayherald.com/33628
** five months after invading Iraq:
http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/2003/tr20030801-depsecdef0526.html

As always, with the highest regard,
Tony Ledford

Brian, in all seriousness, I'm not sure the "neocons" (which really means fascist in the strict sense, a merging of government and corporate interests) fear Hillary being elected President, but I *know* from comments made to me by friends (yes, I have many, many Republican friends who understand my own views precisely) that many Republican fear a Republican rout in the 2006 elections, with the Democrats regaining control of one or both houses of Congress, due to Bush's increasing unpopularity; more Americans disapprove of his "performance" than approve, and 42% favor his impeachment if (or rather when) it is proved that he lied about WMD as a justification for his war.

The next year is going to be very, very interesting, but much will depend on whether or not the news media does its job (fulfills its duty as the Fourth Estate, as it will if the individuals in it can recover any sense of patriotism and love for country) or just continues to let the right wing pull its strings.

Again with the highest regard for all on the forum,
Tony Ledford

Ask "the kid" Dubya where "Turd Blossom" comes from, it's his name for Rove, not mine.

mailto:president@whitehouse.gov

in case you needed the address...

With utmost regard for the outsiders in a blue county (Thank you, God!),
Tony Ledford

Oops, wrong thread on the post immediately above, sorry!

Everyone else using FireFox as a browser? I love the "tabbed" interface for multiple windows, but it is easy to lose your place when you have about 30 tabs open.

Apologies,
Tony Ledford

Tony, I appreciate your input and your style, no name calling, etc. We just have different points of views, but that's ok, you seem like a sincere person. One note: I did not call you delusional, just your statement. Read Bernie Goldberg's book, it is enlightening.

Gotta go get the kids to bed, hope to chat with you again soon.

Rove & his mentor Lee Atwater (among others) fine tuned the current politics of personal destruction. It would be apropriate if he was devoured by the same monster that he helped birth. I'd be happier if his way of doing business died instead.

Fat chance.

Rove Timeline .. you decide the accuracy / bias:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4764919

Dan said: "What you guys hate about people like [Sean Hannity] & Rush is that they make no bones about being conservative."

No - I think they are self-important puffy propagandists - serving themselves, big business interests, and their "conservative" cronies (I don't think they are really "conservative", but that's a separate conversation). Remember that song "Piggies" by The Beatles (White Album)?

Here's what happens when the Government and Business become too buddy-buddy, for example (according to this report), "the government and military now every own single broadcast channel in Tailand. You can bet the information provided is Really Fair and Balanced (sarcasm there)!

http://marketplace.publicradio.org/shows/2005/07/27/PM200507275.html

Call this relationship good if you want, I see it as dangerous - very dangerous. "He is not the party leader, he owns the party." The is also the direction America is rapidly headed, imho.

Trish: I'm still waiting for "... credible proof that Saadam was trying to buy uranium."

I read your link - and it seems to irrefutably deny there ever was "... credible proof that Saadam was trying to buy uranium" - in fact it states evidence was shaky from day one.

http://intelligence.senate.gov/iraqreport2.pdf

(great link, btw- where do you find the time to locate all this stuff?)

It is a "low down dirty shame" that you liberals can't get a grip on whether your intention is to talk to yourself... or to other people.

You can tell the difference between the truth and a lie by the amount of flowered words to express a opinion.

Dubya is an expert...Rove is a scapegoat...and you liberals continue to try and impress your own choir...Your words certainly don't impress the average voter!

That is why 2006 & 2008 will be the same as 2000 & 2004. Congratulations to those of you who are "grasping at the wind"...Soloman

Bill, all they have is spin. when that is removed,there is very little left. No substance. Good post.

Dan, thank you for your remarks, and I echo them in return.

One of the many things that makes our country great is that fact that it is *perfectly okay* to have widely opposing views, no matter how wrong everyone's view but mine is.

:-) That *is* 90% a joke, by the way.

James, you make a good point above about Thailand, and you probably know that what they have is the dictionary definition of Fascism, which is a merging of corporate and government interests. And you're right, it seems America is perilously close to this these days. My theory (and it is just a theory, folks, don't have a stroke) is that when you take a privileged kid who has never had to work for a living and whose buddies are all his Daddy's buddies who run large corporations and make him President, it is surely tempting fate.

All the best to all my blue county friends, including the Reds (how's that for irony?),
Tony Ledford

Tony - it's not really fair to call Bush the only "privileged kid who has never had to work for a living", although some say he's setting new heights for rape and plunder of our country.

There are many many other like him - starting with many of the other 435 + 100 congessfolk.

Tony Ledford,

First off fascism is a little more then the "merging of corporate and government interest". Merriam-Webster dictionary definition of Fascism is: "a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition"

Lets remember just where Fascism came from,it evolved from socialism, the only difference being, "under Fascism in Italy, business owners, employees, trades-people, professionals, and other economic classes were organized into 22 guilds, or associations, known as "corporations" according to their industries, and these groups were given representation in a legislative body known as the Camera dei Fasci e delle Corporazioni."

If you want to call into question the blurring of coporations and government then you also need to call into question every lobbying group to include organized labor, educators, anti-gun rights, etc.

So if you think America is becoming a "Fascist" state I recommend you take a trip to Cuba or North Korea and experience first hand economic and social regimentation along with "forcible suppression of opposition". The only difference is instead of being able to open a hot dog stand and reporting to a "legislative body" (fascism), Fidel and Kim would actually own your little stand (communism). Or you can live in American take your money open a hot dog shack and live in a mansion like Skippy Alston.

"If you want to call into question the blurring of coporations and government then you also need to call into question every lobbying group to include organized labor, educators, anti-gun rights, etc"

Plus lobbying groups to include Exxon, Enron, Halliburton, GE, Motorola, Monsanto ...

I've noticed a trend - CAFTA being today's example - where it is touted that "The [your trade here] Association of Manufacturers supports [your issue here]", as if to imply it's the workers of [your trade here] supports the [your issue here]. The makers of these pronouncements are spinning it - because the Company OWNERS are the ones that decide to join the [your trade here] Association of Manufacturers - and the Company OWNERS are taking all the advantage. For the most part, the workers are only making every-day ends meet.

Talking of lobbies - let's not forget the NRA, Pat Robinson, NAACP, and the Artists-formally-known-as-the-AFL-CIO types.

Trish the Committee To Stop the Dumbing Down of America would like you to take a trip to Cuba or North Korea, anywhere, and we'll pay for the ticket - one way off course. We figure if you leave the national average IQ would go up at least two points.