Did I miss some calamity wherein a sex offender murdered a child? Here in NC?

I agree with others when saying how many more children have to die at the hands of a sick individual...how many more crimes must be commited before sticter laws are enforced...Castorate all of them..and give drugs to remove ALL DESIRE FOR ANY SORT OF SEX...we have drugs to make you have the desire...How many more precious little ones have to suffer before our legal system makes some drastic changes!!!

Who cares what state they are in Jim? I'm sure pedophiles are in NC as in every other state. The recent tragedy was in Idaho if you haven't been watching the news. Florida finally saw the light after a rash of abductions and murders by pedophiles. They passes Jessica's Law where first time sex offenders get 25 years, 2nd time life. Sounds good to me.

I find it interesting that we have a nearby town that wants to ban certain breeds of dog from the town because one day one dog may hurt a child. But when we have someone proved to have hurt children he or she is given a free pass to go anywhere they wish.

While I believe that ALL criminals should be punished according to the laws at hand; are we not talking "double jeopardy" here? I thought that when a prisoner was released after serving his/her conviction that the supposed debt to society had been paid. Therefore, that person was given another chance to be a productive citizen. Where is the constitutionality of subjecting these type of crimes worse than another whereby they never fully repay their debt to society?

To me, there is nothing wrong with having anyone in my neighborhood, as long as that person is a legal, tay-paying citizen. Otherwise, then the law needs to be at work!

Sex offenders, especially pedophiles, cannot be rehabilitated. Period. No amount of programs, punishment, or anything else will stop their desires.
The only solution is to separate them from the society in which they find their victims.

My point exactly JayCee, that is what makes them different from a bank robber. The guy in Idaho who repeatedly raped that little girl for two weeks (after murdering her family) had multiple previous child molestation crimes. This guy should not have been on the street.

These crimes are worse with all due respect Darryl. These monsters prey upon the most innocent and helpless of our society.

Castrate all of them, Susan?

Darryl,

I get what you are saying about Double Jeapordy (I think). If the original sentences against these people were stricter, then it wouldn't be double jeapordy, would it? I mean, a sentence in life or 25 years would be just that. I don't think it would be right to take people who have already done their time and put them BACK in jail. Just start dealing with the ones that do the crime from this point forward.

I wish all those guilty of this would be locked up permanently.

Darryl,
Unfortunately the law does not work. Sex offenders don't register as required or register in one state ,as the perp in the news recently had done, and then move to another and attack children there. The argument for "Jessicia's Law" in all states is a valid one given the failure of law enforcement and courts to effectively handle the matter.

Susan, while most reported sex offenders are male, there are also many female offenders running loose in this country as well. I don't beleive casteration will work on that species.

I know this will not sound politically correct and may shock some that this is coming from me

But I say strap them on a table butt naked in a enclosed room and then allow about 10 harden homosexual prisoners in; close the door and come back the next day.

Then discuss rehabilitation.

Or 10 straight prisoners would work just as well. Just make sure to let them know he was a pedophile. Most people, regardless of orientation, have a special dislike for child molestors.

I would just like to ask Jim; when is enough enough? Is it going to be when it is your child that is kidnapped, molested and murdered? Maybe not that close. hmmm What about a neighbor or even just a family in your neighborhood that you don't even know. Is that close enough for you to answer yes? Eyebrow raised yet Jim? Let us stretch the distance....How about Pleasant Garden. That is a nice quiet area for a wolf to lay in wait. Jim a child's life is no less valuable if it exists 800, 1800, or 8000 miles from the world that is apparently revolving around you.
Next time you are in a crowded room take a look around at the women in the room. Then start counting 1, 2, 3....that 3rd count by statistic has been molested as a child. I am one of those #3s. Then count the men 1, 2, 3, 4, 5....get it yet Jim. Those are just the reported lives that some deviant took and ripped apart.
I feel the 25 for the first offense is alright. Here in Reidsville there was a man caught for fondling a 10 year old boy (how many other boys did he abuse before he was caught?) and he got 2 years, then probation. (which we found out is a joke because this guy was buying a case of beer a day) Two years for a sexual predator is nothing to a predator because they know they will get out. A lifetime to an abuse victim is our sentence. I personally feel that castration is too civilized. Jim you can let your imagination run with that last comment as I bid you ado Sir.

There are 500 registered sex offenders in Guilford County that have paid their debt to society or are still under probation.

Where does Bill Garot propose sending them?

Hugh, Mr. Garot answered that question in his letter when he stated, keep sex offenders out of our communities and behind bars where they belong. He never advocated sending them back to anywhere. He, as many other feel , sex offenders need longer sentences such as Flordia now has, 25 yrs first offense and life for 2nd. Unless any of these 500 have served at least 25 yrs and have only one offense then they should never have been released. As far as placing a sex offender on probation, that is like pulling the pin on a grenade and hoping it will not explode.
Personally and professionaly having worked with both, I would rather have someone who was convicted of a murder and served their time( which in NC was usually 20yrs to life) than a sex offender. The chances of that person committing another murder is almost nil. The chances of the sex offender striking again is almost a sure thing.

Produce, my point is that these 500 perverts have already been judged. You can't go back and re-sentence them.

Hugh, I believe that the predators chose to sentence themselves as the modern day untouchables. People do have a chose between good and evil do they not? They made their proverbial bed, now they should be strap to it in order to allow the parents of innocent children to be forwarned of pending danger.
What do you guys think about tatooing pervert across their forheads???

Unfortunately ,no Hugh we can not go back and resentence them. Had they received more than a slap and a couple of years and then there are those on probation, which is within itself obscene ,then we would not have to worry about even one of the 500 sexually molesting another child in Greensboro or Guilford county would we.

As a note, any judge who would place a sex offender on probation needs to be removed from office post haste.

"As a note, any judge who would place a sex offender on probation needs to be removed from office post haste."

And if put on probaation, said offender needs to live with the judge and his/her kids.

Sorry Sara, that would not stop them from doing as the nutcase in the news has done and go in an abduct the children after the parents had been murdered by him or others. Even then some judges would only see fit to give them probation or release them on little or no bail.

If marijuana were to be legalized and all the prisoners that had been previously charged on possession were released from prison....we would have alot more room for the perverts. It seems that people that abuse animals get more time then a child molester. Laws need to be rewritten and then molesters need to be put where they would never even see the sun again. Too bad we don't have a modern day Australia....

Re: Probabtion. You can go to the NC sex offender website and see that probably half of these guys get off (no pun intended) with probation only. I agee with you Produce, it's an abomination.

Oh yeah, Produce, A great angle for whoever is going up against the Guilford Count District Attorney in the next election would be to mention that the current District Attorney allows his subordinates to plea bargain with pedpophiles for probation only sentencing.

That would be a winning campaign tactic.

Dang tootin Hugh. Do you know anyone who might be in the running? If so this should be passed along post haste.

A DA who would allow a plea in a sexual molestation case should be removed from office as well. Perhaps the N&R could run a piece on the fact that the DA in the county allows this. In light of the current news and the feelings of most citizens about such nonsense the DA could be in for a rough ride.

Oh yeah, and while you are at it check with John Parks (if he is still the head shed over at the P&P office) and see how many of these folks are reporting regularly and if any have changed addresses in the last 30 days and if his office is aware of it. If not, John( or whoever is in charge of the P&P office) could be in for a hot bath also.

Being that this is the NR website I would hope some aspiring, responsible journalist would take the bull by the horns and initiate an article along the lines of why does the Guilford County Distict Attorney allow pedophiles to plea bargain? There's plenty of cases out there where the offense took place and one in particular that was in the paper a while back where the DA's office plea bargained.

But, this is the NR, what was I thinking? They'll cave into the threats from the DA's office to shut them out of exclusives and won't run the story.

I know folks hate Bill ORiley but he is kicking some butt on this getting tough on sex offenders with governors and other officials who states do not have a strong law equal to Jessicia's Law.He nailed the Tough on Crime Texas Gov. for not having a solid law in place instead of giving judges leeway in sentencing these monsters to two years or less. I caught a couple of minutes of the segment on the first nite and whoa, he showed no mercy. I checked in last nite to see if he was still on the subject or if he had moved on to something new. Nope, he was still calling names and kicking butt, hate him if you must but in this case he is right on.

Sara,

Did I say anything supportive of pedophiles?

NO.

So stop using me as a way to vent your anger.

Jim,
I believe you have totally misconstrued what it is that I wrote. I even went back and read exactly what I said to you in context to your own message written:

"Did I miss some calamity wherein a sex offender murdered a child? Here in NC?"

Is that not what you wrote in response to Mr Garrot's original message?

Jim I asked you a simple question. You seem to not to want to answer it. I gave you a simple exercise that you can do anywhere (without anyone knowing that you are doing it)to show just what an epidemic that this problem is becoming. I told you about a situation in part of the piedmont that I knew of first hand. I spoke about how I personally feel about the topic. I even called you sir. So if you want to answer a question with spew then by all means sir; feel free.

Sara,

I've heard a few suggestions here for possible punishments for pedophiles and would like to throw my theory into the ring.

Thanks to DNA, we no longer have to doubt whether or not we got the right guy. So, if the DNA matches and the jury all agrees...

you take him out the backdoor of the courthouse, strip him down, tie a rope around his 'unit' and the other end to the bumper of a car. Drive about 10 miles an hour. Make sure you have a full tank of gas! Then see how far they can run. The first time he falls down...woops!

That pretty much solves everything. And it wouldn't cost a whole lot.

Okay, okay, it may not help the victim. But for the sake of the victim, this person should not be able to re-inter society. A few months before this Duncan guy was captured with Shasta...he was before a judge for tying down and molesting a 6-yr old boy and facing 13 months!!! Level 3 repeat offender! Walked away on $15k bail. SICK.

Bravo Michael......

This is all well and good, but it does nothing to solve the problem. We can write and rant at one another, or spend our enery and time ranting at people who can make a difference: the lawmakers. As soon as I found out about the Idaho rapist being let out on bail I found out who the judge was who let him out and sent the following (actually, I didn't have an address for the judge, so I sent it to the administrative office of the courts):

"To Judge Thomas Schroeder:

As the judge who set the bail for Joseph Edward Duncan III, you ultimately bear responsibility for the deaths and molestations that followed his release. I read the news report on KVLY's web site, which indicated his likely sentence, if convicted, would have been 13 months. When is the criminal justice system in the country going to wake up and realize that rapists and child molesters need to be put away for life? He had been convicted once before, was arrested and allowed to go free on bail. That is insane. The fact that sex offenders are repeat offenders in well-documented. They are rarely able to be reformed.

I hope in the future, when a sex offender comes before you, you will think of those killed and molested because of your actions, and think twice before releasing them. Think of this as well: If a molester comes before you, are you willing to risk that your mother, your wife, your child, or you grandchild might be his next victim if released? Their freedom is not worth the risk! If you cannot see that, you have no business being a judge!"

So, write your representatives, demanding laws at least as tough as Florida's. I personally prefer life sentence for the first offense. And while you are at it, demand laws with teeth to protect women like the one in High Point who was killed after a judge refused to grant her a restraining order. If, as he says, he did all he could within the law, the law needs to be changed.

I have read thoroughly the comments preceeding this one of mine. I read hurt, resentsment, anger, and angst among other things. To those who have been victimized by a sexual predator, I suggest conseling to help you lead a more productive life free of anger. Trust me, this will benefit you holistically in your life.

I have yet to read any purposeful solution. I have read ludicrious answers to a terrible problem in our society. Yet, these solve nothing. One set of comments that did anger me regarded strapping down the convicted offender in prison and letting fellow homsexual/heterosexual prisoners in to do as they pleased with the offender. This is a slap in the face to both the ones writing such tripe and to those whom they wish to perpetrate such nonsense.

Wake up people, think and act reasonably. I do not sense that justice is wanted against those who perpetrate child sexual crimes. I read that revenge is desired. Revenge will settle nothing. Work for peace and justice, then minds and hearts will be free.

Darryl, there is an excellent solution stated by jaycee above:

"The only solution is to separate them from the society in which they find their victims."

Sex offenders cannot be "fixed" from the desires to commit their crimes. Remove them from their pool of victims and there will be no victims.

Susan,

Castration would be a good idea if the purpose of rape/molestation was about sex. In most cases it is about power and control. These "castrated" individuals would resort to using implements instead, same goes with female offenders, they often uses other means of offending.

In reading this thread, I am concerned enough to speak up about those people who have to register as a sex offender but have committed victimless crimes, i.e. the crime was between consenting adults. For a common reference point, I direct you to the Wikipedia entry on "sex offender," located at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_offender.

Those "offenders" with no victim often have to register and endure the public ridicule and misunderstanding that the real offenders should receive. Pedophiles and rapists deserve what they get. People who commit taboo sex acts that are still treated as significant crimes should not be in the same class as the violent/non-consensual criminals. Yet, to the average Joe, when labeled as such by the state, a sex offender is a sex offender is a sex offender. Such labeling and the subsequent societal ramifications can do great harm to someone who does not deserve it.

I've not experienced this, but as a gay man, I'm certainly vulnerable to it in many parts of this country.

Thanks for reading.

Darryl, did you read my suggestion of adopting Jessica's Law? 1st offense: 25 years, 2nd life. That is a mandatory sentence and no judge can dally around it with a lesser sentence, probation, etc. My other suggestion about having predators live with the judges who liberated them was obviously in jest.

I think you miss the point Darryl that this is a very emotional issue and people who have been victimized by sexual predators naturally would want revenge. I sure as hell would if someone touched my kids, especially if they had previous offences and were let go. I'm sure counseling helps, but it will never make it disappear. Add to that the criminal is released in a few years to go do it again.

I'm not speaking from first hand experience, as I have never been molested nor have my children. I can however understand those who have and would never tell them to work for peace and justice to set them free. Kumbaya.

First off Darryl, I have had counselling (thousands of dollars worth) and have even forgiven my abuser to relieve my burden that I had to carry for so many years. It is not about feelings of anger and hate. The lasting effects that are left are of confusion, and not having answers to the why's. Why did it happen? What did I do that made it happen to me? Was it my fault? Anger and revenge are the least of the matter. It makes someone feel like less of a person. It also makes you relive it sometimes everyday. This happened to me over 30 years ago.....I have times I go for more then a day, but I don't think I have ever gone for then a week. But the ironic part about it is that I paid thousands for help........and a lifetime for someone else's twisted crime.

Secondly for Sam. This isn't about gay men being persecuted, this is about children. Nobody here has said anything about gay men being charged with a crime between 2 gay men having consensual sex. Personally if you are gay and are happy in your life, and with your partner, then I am happy for you. I am sorry that society feels your lifestyle is "taboo", I frankly feel it is no one's business what 2 consenting adults do behind closed door. I have just one question though.....Do you think that a dirty old man in a raincoat exposing himself to a child is a victimless crime?

Sara, I do not think "that a dirty old man in a raincoat exposing himself to a child is a victimless crime." Would that by definition be "consensual?" Why did you feel the need to ask me that?

I'm not trying to make this about gay men or any other hot button issue. I'm simply taking the opportunity to point out that grand gestures/statements/ideals/acts, while pure in their creator's intent, generally have more consequences than that creator realizes.

Does that dirty old man in a raincoat who exposes himself to a child deserve the same treatment a dirty young woman who repeatedly physically molests a young boy would get? In the arena of exposure, does the 20-something guy who streaks at a football game deserve the same as the dirty old man? There are nuances to all of this and they tend to be trampled when black-or-white sweeping judgements are made.

Again, just so you don't think I'm trying to go easy on criminals, rapists, pedophiles (including those in religious roles) and other sex offenders that cause harm to another person should be held accountable, punished and monitored (in the least).

"In reading this thread, I am concerned enough to speak up about those people who have to register as a sex offender but have committed victimless crimes, i.e. the crime was between consenting adults. For a common reference point, I direct you to the Wikipedia entry on "sex offender," located at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_offender."

I clicked on the link and read a few snippets....thus I asked the question...

Now you have made me think ... "streaking" .. I am a child of the 70's when streaking was "in". I remember seeing streakers on the news. So you are right on that point Sam. Thanks for making me see a different slant on the light.

This would be a good focus group for rethinking the law...and try to change them.

I have had some serious thoughts about how to react to a person who would sexually assault one of my grandchildren or one of my children. I also have hesitated to respond on this subject but felt that it was necessary.
There are laws to cover this but unfortunately in many states the laws are weak and judges have too much leeway in deciding the sentence. All states need to have the Jessica Law inplace where there is a set sentence , with no ands ,ifs, or buts about it.

I am currently pushing for such a law in the state of Texas because I was unaware that that state has such weak laws concerning sexual assault.
I decided this was better than my first reaction and that was to "lay hands" on the perp and I sure don't mean for his healing either. Fortunately I thought better of it and only got mad.
I have a bit different perspective on this subject than most since only 2 months ago, my 14 yr old granddaughter was raped in her own home by an illegal, working for a reputable roofing company.
My three daughters, by virtue of marriage (we don't use the step word in my home) were all molested as young girls by their step-father. A man who they trusted and loved who had replaced the father that they had lost earlier. Fortunately for these girls they had a mother who refused to allow them to become victims but instead turned victim into victors. Unfortunately for the three girls there were very weak laws in place and he received probation and counseling.

In the state of Texas we learned that the DA was going to allow the perp to plea and return to Mexico. Well folks, I know how that story ends. Out one day , in the next, but then that is a different story for a different post.
Tougher laws, yes, most certainly and now, not after another child is killed or another robbed of their innocence's.
NC law is lax in this area also. It's time to let the Governor know that a Jessica Law is needed in NC.

Do you realize that in the state of NC, people that have been sentenced for child molestation before around 1998, do not have to register as a sex offender. These people are grandfathered in, due to the fact that they committed their crimes before the law was in place. So in addition to 500+ people registered in Guilford County alone, do you wonder how many more people are there that committed their crimes before the law was in place in NC???
How do I know this? I live with FOUR little children that were abused and the person walks free wherever they want to go, even though they have done this before and they have confessed to the crime and were sentenced before, but their crimes were conmitted before NC's sex offender registration law was in place in the late 1990's.
These children live their lives in fear because there was not enough evidence to convict this person! This person was not even arrested. So these children go to therapy, and try to cope for the rest of their lives, knowing that this person got away with hurting them.
So tell me, is this fair to any child?
We definitely need stronger laws, not only in NC but in all states, to protect all children and to put away child molestors forever & ever.

Of course the victims count. They must be respected and children must be protected. If we really want to do this, public policy needs to shift from this current hysteria-driven atmosphere to reasoned, thoughtful and balanced approaches that will actually benefit society. This can be done.

Interesting questions being raised here, ones that there ARE answers to…

Can sex offenders change? YES. Treatment really does work for the majority. The truly sociopathic, crazies are not going to be able to be rehabilitated, no matter what their crime. Thankfully, they are the small minority, but those are the ones we hear about, and the ones the media love to sensationalize - the ones we love to hate. Its heart-wrenching, gut-twisting, vengeance-inspiring and salacious… in other words - it’s a ratings tool, appealing to our natural instinct to protect children.

“Sex offender” encompasses a very broad range of people who committed a very broad range of actions. Some acts are by their very nature a sexual crime - no-brainers like: rape, flashing, etc.... others are not so black and white.

For example, would anyone here consider the following to be “sex offender” worthy crimes?

- peeing in an alley
- changing a diaper
- taking a photo of your ONE-YEAR-OLD breastfeeding
- grabbing a wayward teen by the arm to give her a piece of your mind for almost causing a multi-car pileup
- grabbing your own crotch and making a crude comment
- engaging in consensual teen sexual behavior also see this

If you said YES to any one of these, you are in the minority. Most people are blissfully unaware of what actually constitutes a “sex crime” today in America - unless or until they (or a family member) get swept up in this over-broad net and ever-farther-reaching and vaguely-worded laws.

For all those instances mentioned above, there are newspaper articles published on each one - yes, each one is of a person who as been prosecuted and is now a sex offender for LIFE. The few listed above are representative of a growing number of Americans (including younger and younger juveniles) caught up in this net. It certainly makes juicy tv coverage, but it is likewise a horrible un-ending nightmare for them *and their families.*

The current system, although very well-intentioned, has many glaring flaws. One of which is that the registry was initially internal - only law enforcement had access to it; it was intended to be for violent offenders. Then it took off as a tool for the public to protect themselves from those violent, repeat and habitual offenders. Now it has transmogrified into listing everyone who was ever adjudicated for anything even remotely able to be construed as sexual- even those whose charges were dropped or were not convicted.

Consider that there are many, many people on the registry who were adjudicated “withheld” - legally, this is not supposed to be equated as guilt. However, the legislature has added that designation into the statutes. According to the FDLE, over 1/2 of those on Florida’s website received withheld adjudication.

All of the sudden the number 43,000 dangerous sex criminals running around in FL doesn’t seem so big [at only 21,500]. Consider also that about 2,000 are in prison and another large number who are DEAD, have been deported or only registered while they were passing through. So that leaves, what, around 18,000? Out of what total population? The problem doesn’t seem quite as extreme when one knows the facts, does it? The amount of federal funding plays a large role in how the policies are implemented - yes, it’s about money, too. Shameful.

Another problem with the registry is that it is so diluted with all of these piddly cases that the truly dangerous are obscured. According to the 2003 report by the DOJ, only 5.3% of 9,961 sex offenders were re-arrested for a new subsequent sex offense in the follow-up period. Of those only 3.5% were actually re-convicted. So, that means that roughly 95% of sex offenders DID NOT REOFFEND. Interestingly enough, the NON-sex offenders committed something like 75% MORE SEX OFFENSES than the sex offenders did! You can see this in a user-friendly table here.

This study is only one of many government (federal, state, and international) studies point out that the idea that all sex offenders reoffend, they can’t be rehabilitated is, as a Federal court decision stated, “an old wives tale”:

In United States v. Mound, 157 F.3d 1153, 1154, (8th Cir. 1998) (en banc), four dissenting Judges cite Law Review articles citing statistics finding the recidivism rate of released sex offenders is the second lowest rate of recidivism of all convicted felons. In State v. Krueger, Case No. 76624 (December 19, 2000, Eighth Judicial District of Ohio, unreported), two female Judges reversed a Sexual Predator adjudication, finding the statute is based on a false assumption and in essence, an “old wives tale” of popular beliefs contradicted by empirical data.

Another huge flaw in the current system stems from the federal government’s requirement of the states to list *everyone* and monitor everyone. This, according to sheriffs, police officers, parole and probation officers, is a huge waste of taxpayer’s money, their time, attention and resources. This is the prime reason why the crazy people are able to slip through the cracks to commit heinous crimes.

The public has many misconceptions, and some of those that are the most common:

- registrants cannot change,
- treatment doesn’t work,
- all sex offenders are pedophiles
- all registrants have numerous victims before they are caught
- sex offenses are committed by strangers
- juvenile sex offenders cannot change either
- victims may/will go on to offend sexually
- we have a right to know where they live
- we have the right to NOT have them live by us and our upstanding family
- if someone is not on the registry then they are ’safe’
- any sex offense against a ‘minor’ means a little child
- all teen girls are chaste and innocent, any sexual activity must have been coerced or manipulated
- children NEVER lie (or are coerced into making a false allegation) about abuse
- children are asexual and any ’sex-play’ is a result of abuse they endured
- anyone who had sex with a teen is a pedophile
- prison is somehow luxurious
- probation/parole conditions are easy for registrants
- vigilantism is rare (beatings, stabbings, murder, firebombings, etc.)
- harassment/intimidation is illegal and punished
- the family members of a registrant deserve whatever the registrant does
- the victim is never identified
- longer sentences and harsher punishments will act as effective deterrent
- sex offenders somehow get a ’slap on the wrist’
- the non-offending parent must have known what was going on, is also to blame
- once someone commits a sex crime, they should never be able to be around children again (grocery store, gas station, fast food, college)
- the government’s job is to protect us

There are many more pervasive myths out there. I don’t have the time to refute every one, besides, it’s already been done here: http://www.sohopeful.org/ and while you are there, be sure to check out the Library of official documents and news articles at www.sohopeful.org/forum.

The information there is simply stated, backed up with numerous facts from credible sources and a cogent position is stated. Not only that, but there are some really viable and effective solutions presented as well, in addition to child safety tips.

Carolyn, SOhopeful International
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=>from eAdvocate's site:
[http://www.geocities.com/voicism/z-902.html#a]
[http://www.geocities.com/eadvocate/issues/topic-attacker.html]

- FACT -

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This page is dedicated to this comment, many folks have disputed this claim,
saying, you need to ask victims to get the truth!

"96.5% of new sex offenses are committed by someone who has never committed a sex offense before!"

Today, 2004, when sex offenders are released from their prison sentence, back into the community, they are required to register with their local police agency. Legislatures and the general community believe that, new sex offenses are committed by these former offenders. While that is a myth, we can now present some hard facts to prove our claim.

To make sense of this issue we searched for a "Victim Study" which showed the number of offenses according to victims. Here is what we found. The United States Department of Justice has a report called "Criminal Victimization in the United States, 1994," published in May of 1997. In 1994 victims reported 432,750 incidents.

Although that report has later versions, we used 1994 to be consistent with the latest sex offender recidivism statistics, "Recidivism of Sex Offenders Released from Prison in 1994, also published by the US Department of Justice, published in November 2003.

The DoJ reported 3.5% of those sex offenders released were RECONVICTED for another sex crime, within 3 years, following their release. (DoJ Pg-24) see note below.

Accordingly, in 1994 victims reported 432,750 incidents. In 1994 3.5% of sex offenders released from prison (those who had previously committed one or more sex offenses) committed another sex offense (recidivated within 3-years of release).

The math: (100% - 3.5% = 96.5%) 96.5% of 432,750 = 417,603 committed by someone other than a former sex offender released from prison.
What more needs to be said?

Note: We do recognize that the 3.5% reconviction rate is over 3-years. When switching between rearrest, reconviction, recidivates, recidivism etc. all this muddys the waters and requires a careful read of what is being said. Part of the explanation is, when a person "recidivates" -that act whenever committed-, is rarely taken to court in the same year, reconviction -if any- would more likely be in the next year. Also it has been proven that most recidivism (actual acts) occurs in the first year following release. pg-16 DoJ. We also didn't feel a simple divide by 3 was fair either, so we just erred on the side of caution, and used 3.5% as an yearly figure.

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Closing Comments

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Further proof that non-sex offenders commit more sex offenses than previously convicted sex offenders is found right within that DoJ Study:
DoJ pg-24 has this comment:
"The 15 States in this study released a total of 272,111 prisoners. The 9,691 released sex offenders made up less than 4% of that total. Of the remaining 262,420 non-sex offenders, 3,328 (1.3%) were RE-ARRESTED for a new sex crime within 3-years (not shown in table [12]). By comparison, the 5.3% REARREST rate for the 9,691 released sex offenders was 4-times higher. ..."
Here they are working with REARREST numbers not RECONVICTION numbers. Lets translate this into some hard numbers:
Released Offenders ReArrested for a New Sex Offense New Sex Offenses % of New Sex Offenses
9,691 Sex Offenders 5.3% 517 13%
262,420 Non-Sex Offenders 1.3% 3,328 87%
272,211 All Offenders Released 1.4% 3,845 100%

What this proves is, that non-sex offenders released from prison are the more dangerous group for committing new sex offenses. This study shows, that 87% of all new sex crimes committed by released prisoners, were committed by those who were not in prison for a sex offense.

In 2000 the Colorado Department of Corrections prepared a 50-State Study (495 pgs PDF) of prison sex offender therapy programs, it shows, that of the 15 states [note] within the DoJ study, three do not have a prison sex offender therapy program: California, Florida and Oregon. Can you imagine how low the recidivism rate would be without those states?

One interesting fact is, all this is before the beginning of sex offender registries; actually shows they are not justified. One day when a new recidivism study is published, we can again compare this calculation. For now this is the best available, backed by victim and offender statistics.

We need to constantly ask "Legislators," why they continually focus new more restrictive legislation on ALL registered sex offenders, when they have the lowest recidivism rate, and legislators ignore the group committing "96.5% of new sex offenses," persons who have never before committed a sex offense?

The collateral effect on society from this legislative stance is a disaster, not only are offender lives being destroyed, but the legislation is harmful to the children and families of previously convicted sex offenders!

eAdvocate

note: Total sex offenders released (9,691) and participated in DoJ study: Arizona (122); California (3,395); Delaware (45); Florida (965); Illinois (710); Maryland (243); Michigan (444); Minnesota (239); New Jersey (429); New York (692); North Carolina (441); Ohio (606); Oregon (408); Texas (692); Virginia (260). (DoJ pg-39)

Of course the victims count. They must be respected and children must be protected. If we really want to do this, public policy needs to shift from this current hysteria-driven atmosphere to reasoned, thoughtful and balanced approaches that will actually benefit society. This can be done.

Interesting questions being raised here, ones that there ARE answers to…

Can sex offenders change? YES. Treatment really does work for the majority. The truly sociopathic, crazies are not going to be able to be rehabilitated, no matter what their crime. Thankfully, they are the small minority, but those are the ones we hear about, and the ones the media love to sensationalize - the ones we love to hate. Its heart-wrenching, gut-twisting, vengeance-inspiring and salacious… in other words - it’s a ratings tool, appealing to our natural instinct to protect children.

“Sex offender” encompasses a very broad range of people who committed a very broad range of actions. Some acts are by their very nature a sexual crime - no-brainers like: rape, flashing, etc.... others are not so black and white.

For example, would anyone here consider the following to be “sex offender” worthy crimes?

- peeing in an alley
- changing a diaper
- taking a photo of your ONE-YEAR-OLD breastfeeding
- grabbing a wayward teen by the arm to give her a piece of your mind for almost causing a multi-car pileup
- grabbing your own crotch and making a crude comment
- engaging in consensual teen sexual behavior also see this

If you said YES to any one of these, you are in the minority. Most people are blissfully unaware of what actually constitutes a “sex crime” today in America - unless or until they (or a family member) get swept up in this over-broad net and ever-farther-reaching and vaguely-worded laws.

For all those instances mentioned above, there are newspaper articles published on each one - yes, each one is of a person who as been prosecuted and is now a sex offender for LIFE. The few listed above are representative of a growing number of Americans (including younger and younger juveniles) caught up in this net. It certainly makes juicy tv coverage, but it is likewise a horrible un-ending nightmare for them *and their families.*

The current system, although very well-intentioned, has many glaring flaws. One of which is that the registry was initially internal - only law enforcement had access to it; it was intended to be for violent offenders. Then it took off as a tool for the public to protect themselves from those violent, repeat and habitual offenders. Now it has transmogrified into listing everyone who was ever adjudicated for anything even remotely able to be construed as sexual- even those whose charges were dropped or were not convicted.

Consider that there are many, many people on the registry who were adjudicated “withheld” - legally, this is not supposed to be equated as guilt. However, the legislature has added that designation into the statutes. According to the FDLE, over 1/2 of those on Florida’s website received withheld adjudication.

All of the sudden the number 43,000 dangerous sex criminals running around in FL doesn’t seem so big [at only 21,500]. Consider also that about 2,000 are in prison and another large number who are DEAD, have been deported or only registered while they were passing through. So that leaves, what, around 18,000? Out of what total population? The problem doesn’t seem quite as extreme when one knows the facts, does it? The amount of federal funding plays a large role in how the policies are implemented - yes, it’s about money, too. Shameful.

Another problem with the registry is that it is so diluted with all of these piddly cases that the truly dangerous are obscured. According to the 2003 report by the DOJ, only 5.3% of 9,961 sex offenders were re-arrested for a new subsequent sex offense in the follow-up period. Of those only 3.5% were actually re-convicted. So, that means that roughly 95% of sex offenders DID NOT REOFFEND. Interestingly enough, the NON-sex offenders committed something like 75% MORE SEX OFFENSES than the sex offenders did! You can see this in a user-friendly table here.

This study is only one of many government (federal, state, and international) studies point out that the idea that all sex offenders reoffend, they can’t be rehabilitated is, as a Federal court decision stated, “an old wives tale”:

In United States v. Mound, 157 F.3d 1153, 1154, (8th Cir. 1998) (en banc), four dissenting Judges cite Law Review articles citing statistics finding the recidivism rate of released sex offenders is the second lowest rate of recidivism of all convicted felons. In State v. Krueger, Case No. 76624 (December 19, 2000, Eighth Judicial District of Ohio, unreported), two female Judges reversed a Sexual Predator adjudication, finding the statute is based on a false assumption and in essence, an “old wives tale” of popular beliefs contradicted by empirical data.

Another huge flaw in the current system stems from the federal government’s requirement of the states to list *everyone* and monitor everyone. This, according to sheriffs, police officers, parole and probation officers, is a huge waste of taxpayer’s money, their time, attention and resources. This is the prime reason why the crazy people are able to slip through the cracks to commit heinous crimes.

The public has many misconceptions, and some of those that are the most common:

- registrants cannot change,
- treatment doesn’t work,
- all sex offenders are pedophiles
- all registrants have numerous victims before they are caught
- sex offenses are committed by strangers
- juvenile sex offenders cannot change either
- victims may/will go on to offend sexually
- we have a right to know where they live
- we have the right to NOT have them live by us and our upstanding family
- if someone is not on the registry then they are ’safe’
- any sex offense against a ‘minor’ means a little child
- all teen girls are chaste and innocent, any sexual activity must have been coerced or manipulated
- children NEVER lie (or are coerced into making a false allegation) about abuse
- children are asexual and any ’sex-play’ is a result of abuse they endured
- anyone who had sex with a teen is a pedophile
- prison is somehow luxurious
- probation/parole conditions are easy for registrants
- vigilantism is rare (beatings, stabbings, murder, firebombings, etc.)
- harassment/intimidation is illegal and punished
- the family members of a registrant deserve whatever the registrant does
- the victim is never identified
- longer sentences and harsher punishments will act as effective deterrent
- sex offenders somehow get a ’slap on the wrist’
- the non-offending parent must have known what was going on, is also to blame
- once someone commits a sex crime, they should never be able to be around children again (grocery store, gas station, fast food, college)
- the government’s job is to protect us

There are many more pervasive myths out there. I don’t have the time to refute every one, besides, it’s already been done here: http://www.sohopeful.org/ and while you are there, be sure to check out the Library of official documents and news articles at www.sohopeful.org/forum.

The information there is simply stated, backed up with numerous facts from credible sources and a cogent position is stated. Not only that, but there are some really viable and effective solutions presented as well, in addition to child safety tips.

Carolyn, SOhopeful International
================================

=>from eAdvocate's site:
[http://www.geocities.com/voicism/z-902.html#a]
[http://www.geocities.com/eadvocate/issues/topic-attacker.html]

- FACT -

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This page is dedicated to this comment, many folks have disputed this claim,
saying, you need to ask victims to get the truth!

"96.5% of new sex offenses are committed by someone who has never committed a sex offense before!"

Today, 2004, when sex offenders are released from their prison sentence, back into the community, they are required to register with their local police agency. Legislatures and the general community believe that, new sex offenses are committed by these former offenders. While that is a myth, we can now present some hard facts to prove our claim.

To make sense of this issue we searched for a "Victim Study" which showed the number of offenses according to victims. Here is what we found. The United States Department of Justice has a report called "Criminal Victimization in the United States, 1994," published in May of 1997. In 1994 victims reported 432,750 incidents.

Although that report has later versions, we used 1994 to be consistent with the latest sex offender recidivism statistics, "Recidivism of Sex Offenders Released from Prison in 1994, also published by the US Department of Justice, published in November 2003.

The DoJ reported 3.5% of those sex offenders released were RECONVICTED for another sex crime, within 3 years, following their release. (DoJ Pg-24) see note below.

Accordingly, in 1994 victims reported 432,750 incidents. In 1994 3.5% of sex offenders released from prison (those who had previously committed one or more sex offenses) committed another sex offense (recidivated within 3-years of release).

The math: (100% - 3.5% = 96.5%) 96.5% of 432,750 = 417,603 committed by someone other than a former sex offender released from prison.
What more needs to be said?

Note: We do recognize that the 3.5% reconviction rate is over 3-years. When switching between rearrest, reconviction, recidivates, recidivism etc. all this muddys the waters and requires a careful read of what is being said. Part of the explanation is, when a person "recidivates" -that act whenever committed-, is rarely taken to court in the same year, reconviction -if any- would more likely be in the next year. Also it has been proven that most recidivism (actual acts) occurs in the first year following release. pg-16 DoJ. We also didn't feel a simple divide by 3 was fair either, so we just erred on the side of caution, and used 3.5% as an yearly figure.

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Closing Comments

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Further proof that non-sex offenders commit more sex offenses than previously convicted sex offenders is found right within that DoJ Study:
DoJ pg-24 has this comment:
"The 15 States in this study released a total of 272,111 prisoners. The 9,691 released sex offenders made up less than 4% of that total. Of the remaining 262,420 non-sex offenders, 3,328 (1.3%) were RE-ARRESTED for a new sex crime within 3-years (not shown in table [12]). By comparison, the 5.3% REARREST rate for the 9,691 released sex offenders was 4-times higher. ..."
Here they are working with REARREST numbers not RECONVICTION numbers. Lets translate this into some hard numbers:
Released Offenders ReArrested for a New Sex Offense New Sex Offenses % of New Sex Offenses
9,691 Sex Offenders 5.3% 517 13%
262,420 Non-Sex Offenders 1.3% 3,328 87%
272,211 All Offenders Released 1.4% 3,845 100%

What this proves is, that non-sex offenders released from prison are the more dangerous group for committing new sex offenses. This study shows, that 87% of all new sex crimes committed by released prisoners, were committed by those who were not in prison for a sex offense.

In 2000 the Colorado Department of Corrections prepared a 50-State Study (495 pgs PDF) of prison sex offender therapy programs, it shows, that of the 15 states [note] within the DoJ study, three do not have a prison sex offender therapy program: California, Florida and Oregon. Can you imagine how low the recidivism rate would be without those states?

One interesting fact is, all this is before the beginning of sex offender registries; actually shows they are not justified. One day when a new recidivism study is published, we can again compare this calculation. For now this is the best available, backed by victim and offender statistics.

We need to constantly ask "Legislators," why they continually focus new more restrictive legislation on ALL registered sex offenders, when they have the lowest recidivism rate, and legislators ignore the group committing "96.5% of new sex offenses," persons who have never before committed a sex offense?

The collateral effect on society from this legislative stance is a disaster, not only are offender lives being destroyed, but the legislation is harmful to the children and families of previously convicted sex offenders!

eAdvocate

note: Total sex offenders released (9,691) and participated in DoJ study: Arizona (122); California (3,395); Delaware (45); Florida (965); Illinois (710); Maryland (243); Michigan (444); Minnesota (239); New Jersey (429); New York (692); North Carolina (441); Ohio (606); Oregon (408); Texas (692); Virginia (260). (DoJ pg-39)

As a matter of "public safety" and "protection of children" I think the children in all neighborhoods should be interviewed to see how many unsolved child molestation cases there are in the homes of these precious innocent children. I imagine there are thousands and thousands of cases (website comming soon!) nationwide.

Registered Sex Offenders have already been caught we need to get the sick parents of these children off our streets and in prison for life or the death penalty applied without recourse (Registries do not protect anybody) were they can never hurt a child again.

.....more to come

Jane

* From Mein Kampf, (1925)

* "The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation."

The so-called "Law of Empowerment", authorized the government to enact laws without recourse either to the parliament or to the president. The "Operative Empowerment", authorized the government to enact laws without recourse either to the parliament or to the president.

The operative aim of Nazi policy during the first years was not yet the physical annihilation of the Jews but rather their social and economic displacement and their removal from German soil. Its typical manifestations were discriminatory legislation, economic deprivation, public defamation, administrative harassment, and social ostracism rather than physical torture or murder.