Mr. Sexton can't you christians either confine your bible classes to your churches or at least find blogs just for christians, some of us don't care for this sort of discussion. Thak you.

i am confused, yellowdog thinks mr. sexton is representing Christians and i believe he is challenging Christian to prove why they believe. yellowdog you are not compelled to either read or respond to any blog that you don't want to, it seems as though you would have us only blog about items of interest to you, that doesn't seem right. next time you read a commentary on Christian principles, simply move on to another subject where you can intelligently participate.

to mr. sexton apparently you are a non Christian and see the need for Christians to demonstrate with some sign like calling down fire fro heaven, that God exists. that is not my job as a Christian, my job is to tell you the gospel message (i.e. Jesus loves you and died for you) and leave the rest up to the Holy Spirit. below you will find an explanation from scripture why unbelievers can't figure it out - but i suspect you will not understand because these words are spiritually discerned.

1Cr 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
1Cr 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
1Cr 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
1Cr 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
1Cr 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, [are called]:
1Cr 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
1Cr 1:28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, [yea], and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
1Cr 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

Yellowdog- this is a letter to the editor, not a blog. These N-R bog sites are for everyone. Your complaint defeats the purpose of blogs in the first place.

It is an interesting point. It does take faith to beleive in God and the bible. But faith is beleiving in facts unseen, is it not. One does not have faith in fairy tales.

Interestingly enough, I think christspeak and John Sexton are saying the same thing. To me it is obvious, believing in God takes faith. My faith in God is not dependant upon empirical evidence. The world is not flat, the earth is not the center of the universe.

I believe in God because I have experienced God. Yes, that is subjective...and yes, that is faith.

However, I think sometimes (maybe more often than not) folks DO have faith in fairy tales. One only needs to look at the "faith" of some of the rather extremist religions to see that people still believe fairy tells...and they do so by faith.

John's point is valid and obvious. Faith is subjective. I can not call down fire from heaven to consume wet wood. But I can FEEL the Presence, the burning fire of the Inward Light, in my heart and life.

"It is time Chritians were judged more by their likeness to Christ than their notions of Christ." ---William Penn

What makes you think you can't call down fire from heaven? Jesus said we could move mountains with our faith.

Disclaimer: I've never tried to do either.

See what I mean - you think this is a sunday school class. I get enough of you people at work on TV etc, I would just like to have this place free of christians. No I cant stop you and I wouldnt if I could I was just appealing to you to go elsewhere if you must talk about christian stuff. I find you people very scary with all your war, hate and killing talk. Jerry Farwell has a site - go there.

truth,
the thought crossed my mind to make a similar comment. i believe that we sometime think we need BIG faith to call down fire or move mountains when in actuality we need only small faith ....say about as small as a mustard seed. our problem is we speak what the world speaks and subsequently we get what the world gets.....our tonque is a creative force.

Mar 11:23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.
Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive [them], and ye shall have [them].

If Jesus was the most important man ever born, then why does his geaneology change from book to book in the Bible?

Why are there many contradictions in "the word of God"?

The existance of God cannot be proven or disproven.

I find it interesting, that yellowdog, has figured out, that the Bible, is not a book of facts, but instead, a book of Faith. The Bible is indeed a book of "Facts". The question should be, "Are these facts true or false? As a Christian, I have the "Faith" to believe they are true.

Darrell Swanger,
I thought facts were things that could be proven.

Most of what's in the Bible can't be proven, just as most things in the Quran can't be.

The Bible even gets some things wrong that were taken as fact back then such as a rabbit chewing its cud, a flat Earth and the smallest seed being that of a Mustard plant. All not fact as we know today.

Faith is just that. If you believe the Bible to be true, then great! But that in no way makes the Bible "fact".

Don't get me wrong, I love the Bible. Without it, I wouldn't be able to turn Christians away from their faith so easily.

mr.harper,
is turning Christians away from their faith a job for you or just a passtime? i read quite a few of your posts over the last month or so and i can honestly say that you have not once presented any commentary that would cause me ( and i suppose any other true believer )to waver in their beliefs. exactly what is your agenda in the spiritual matters ? you want to know why geneologies are recorded differently, but the truth is that you would not nor could you comprehend the truth(s), you are a natural man and things of the Spirit will always elude you (unfortunately). that is not my judgement but rather your own confession, but that does not stop me from caring for you and your spiritual well being. what a lonely and frustrating existence you must experience.

Mr. Sexton,

I have accepted the Bible as 100% factual. I have accepted Christ as my Saviour and He will do that for anyone who asks Him into their hearts.

As a Christian I can mess up, my life can be in a shambles, I will never be perfect, but because God loves me so much He sent His only Son, Jesus Christ to die for my sins. Because of Christ and His sacrifice - I will be worthy to one day meet a perfect God. What a precious gift.

The value of faith is that I know I'm going to Heaven, and I know why and it's going to be glorious.

I cannot tell you how God made an axe head float, or how a serpent talked or answers to your questions - but, I have faith that these things happened because they are in the Bible.

I can tell you that I went to Israel and the tomb of Jesus was empty. Yes, God can do anything.

Christianity is a crutch for weak people afraid that this life on Earth is it, and there is no afterlife.

It's really sad that people buy into this cult. Christianity also (in it's earlier years) condoned slavery, it's right there in the Bible. The Bible says that no human can ever be good enough to get into heave unless they profess Jebus as their savior. - Hmmm. how childish is this philosophy?

I figure that I didn't ask to be born to this Earth, but now that I am here, why should I be forced to believe in something that cannot be proven? So Jebus will send me to hell because I don't believe, even though the books he supposedly left for us are riddled with errors and contradictions? PLEASE!

You Christians that believe the Bible word for word are funny!

mr. harper,
speaking of funny, i find it funny that you would say " why should I be forced to believe in something that cannot be proven? " - it's funny that i don't see any comments trying to force you to believe anything. it's funny that you don't understand that salvation can be yours not by force but by your decision to accept Jesus as Savior. Christianity today continues to support slavery.......we (Christians) are bond slaves (doulos-strongs 1401), this is repeated throughout the N.T., it should not surprise you that God places His stamp of approval on servants. but this is all lost on you mr. harper and no amount of explaining will open your eyes. hey if you are correct about this God thing, then when you breathe yor last breath, it's all over.....however if i am correct in my belief....oops mr.harper gets to go to the bad place for eternity and what a shame that arrogance and ignorance puts you there, NOT God !!

buz,
You misunderstood me. I meant that why should I be forced to believe something in order not to be tortured for eternity.

Your god a fair and just one? NOPE!

Brian,

There are many Christians who believe that Jesus is the only "Word of God"...period. Even if the Bible were proven to be completely and utterly false, I would still have my faith in Him.

Again, it is the experience of the Living Christ that calls me to Jesus and the faith he lived out.

Unfortunatly, many Christians follow the religion about Jesus and not the religion of Jesus. I've never been to Jerusalem and I've never seen the "empty tomb", but that really doesn't bother me. The Risen Christ has spoke to my life in the Still Small Voice.

I've done the fundamentalist thing (was reared in it) and I've done the athiest/agnostic thing. Neither gave my life meaning or gave me peace. Fundmentalism is a breath away from atheism. Once one "fact" of the Bible is disproven for the fundamentalist, the whole tapestry falls to pieces.

However, if we know experientially that God is real, then nothing can shake our faith. My belief is that the Bible is the finger pointing to the moon, not the moon itself.

Finally, it is sad to see the arrogance of many of my Christian brothers and sisters. The attitude that is often expressed, but not intended, is that of the Pharisees. Hold them, and myself with forgiveness. We, too are human and not above being self righteous.

Craig,
I would love to become a Christian. But what Christian church would openly accept me understanding that I will not change certain morals I hold to be true to myself?
I believe abortion shouldn't be illegal, almost all war is wrong, cursing isn't bad (it's the context of your diction, not the content that matters), and I am a liberal through and through.
I also believe that Bush is doing more harm than good to my beloved country (of which I served 9 years in the military). Would a church accept me with my anti-Bush bumper stickers? Would a church accept me knowing this about me? No they wouldn't. They may temporarily only to have the motive to "change" me.

Sorry, but I for one won't go somewhere my kind isn't wanted.

Brian, I know of a Christian faith based Church that would accept you. I am totally serious. If you contact me, I would be open to discussing this topic with you.

And to others reading this, I will gladly discuss this further if anyone desires.

The reason that I ask Brian to contact me directly to discuss the specific faith group, this is so as not to promote any one specific Christian faith group over another here on the blog.

Brian,

Come over to my church, Christ Community, on Air Harbor Rd. Trust me, we have a wide variety of folks. I know plenty who do not like Bush. Me, I'm about as far right as you get (on most issues) but I don't want abortion to be illegal either. I'd like to make some adjustments to the law that I think would end the debate on the issue...but that's another conversation.

I'm a dirty, rotten sinner. Sin every day. All my church buddies are the same way. But what we have in common is an understanding that we have a Redeamer. Sure, I've changed some of my ways of thinking since becoming a Christian- but only after complete, honest soul-searching that I could understand and appreciate intellectually.

Don't be aprehensive. Come as you are. You might be surprised how much you have in common with many folks. Of course there are plenty of Bush supporters in the church- he's not afraid to talk about his faith and that is appreciated in the church.

I know that you also have plenty of doubts about the Bible itself. C'mon over and debate it with our pastors. Listen to them. If what they say doesn't make sense then just leave. But if they show you something that you hadn't thought about-stick around.

Really, we're not evil people.

Mr. Harper,
There are many offers of churches that are Bible based and will accept you as you are. I can also e-mail you information on an excellent Bible based church if you ever want to learn more.

Your first sentence in the last post says you "would love to be a Christian." If you get into a church and people don't accept you - then I have to wonder if they are a Christ centered church? The most important thing is Christ accepts you, just as you are. [Like He did for every Christian.]

Who are Christians to judge you? or anyone? The Bible is clear on that. Personally, I'm just a lousy sinner who can never do enough good to make up for all of the bad I've done. I want to reiterate that I am no where near perfect, and never will be as long as I live. Jesus died for my sins, if He didn't I wouldn't have a hope.

Perhaps my simplistic views of the Bible being 100% accurate are archaic, and that's okay if people think that. And it's okay if you think I'm weak - and childish. This is in line with Scripture.

Please feel free to e-mail me if you would like to discuss further.

Brian,

I've been thinking a lot about your post last night and I have thought about this one particular guy in our church who is probably are best Sunday school teacher. His story is pretty amazing. He's a very smart guy who for most of his adult life was very skeptical of the Bible and wanted nothing to do with it.

His wife became active in the church and eventually got to a stage where he was coming in contact with others who were discussing his very doubts about the whole religion thing. The more he learned about it the more his doubts faded away. In other words, he didn't come into the church with faith, he came to challenge it.

That's how I came into it. It had to make sense to me. Once I got there, I discovered answers and perspectives I had never thought of. Things that erased my doubts. And I'm still a comparative amaetuer in this.

Today, I'm still offended by a lot of Christians-those that feel like they own Christianity, those that think that they speak for Christianity. But nobody does. There are certainly those that know about more than others but not even Billy Graham is going to pretend that he owns it or decides who is going to heaven, how you must look or anything of the sort.

I invite you, again, to challenge the church, the faith and the Bible. I know people who would be glad to talk to you anytime of the week. Either it will make you more steadfast in your current beliefs or it will lead you to discover the greatest thing in your life. Fair enough?

Oops, huge error from last post...

Billy Graham is NOT going to pretend...

Brian,

Just checked this blog again. Sorry for being so slow to respond. I left you a comment on your blog. Give me an email bud.

-Craig