It was avery moving letter George. Unfortunately, there will always be groups that are targeted for whatever the reason. I remember the slogan used to be "hate the sin, love the sinner". I think now it is "push the sinner away, don't offer him love or guidace, he is going to hell anyway".

I know not all christians feel this way. There are many on this blog who still use the 1st slogan of hating only the sin. Un fortunately, as is true with any group, there are radicals that make the entire group look bad.

But also, please keep this in mind. Churches are not goverened. This is actually how the concept of homosexuality should be handled. Many gay people have asked government to get out of their lives and allow their churches to legislate their relationships. Given this new announcement from the Baptist convention, it is merely an answer to a question that has been pondered for a while. If you are gay, and Baptist, perhaps now is the time to convert.

George and GayTony:

Are you saying it is wrong to target certain groups of people? Then why are you "targeting" baptists? I don't see much love for baptists in your responses.

This wasn't baptists idea to call homosexuality a sin, it's called a sin in BOTH the New and Old Testaments. Do you know of any REPENTENT homosexuals that have been excluded from baptist churches? If so, then I would join you in saying that church is wrong in it's treatment of that person.

God didn't call homosexuality a sin, because He likes making rules, but because He loves us and wants to protect us from the consequences of bad choices. He designed our bodies to function in a certain way sexually and under certain circumstances. If we followed those guidelines, unwanted pregnancies, AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases would not be destroying people's lives.

I am a member of a baptist church. We participate in a ministry to people with AIDs AND we teach that homesexuality is wrong. The two are not mutually exclusive. We also teach that sex outside marriage between heterosexuals is wrong. I guess we hate everyone!

You can't experience God's grace and mercy and forgiveness until you acknowledgement your own sinfulness. I have had to admit sinful behavior, thoughts and words many times to God and ask for mercy. He knows those things anyway, but He wants me to agree with Him about those sins and to restore my relationship with Him. He will cleanse all of your sins if you confess them to Him. But you can't get clean until you know your dirty.

Hell, the Baptists have always been hateful. Ask anyone living outside of the south. When I was in college at an NC Baptist school, I was the only Catholic there. I remember required 'chapel services' three times a week when some redneck preacher would trash one group after another...especially Catholics. I remember a Biblical Recorder with a picture of someone tied up in rosary beads with a headline about saving Catholics from their bondage. I remember when integration was just beginning how some Baptist churches had guards at the doors to keep black people out. Individual Baptist churches even trash other Baptist churches. Now it's the gays. Wonder who is next. Maybe these piranhas will end up eating each other instead of others. Hateful has always described Baptists...especially Southern Baptists.

Tony:

I will admit that many of the things you cite are both true and are wrong. Baptists should admit and apologize for those wrongs. Southern Baptists are sinners just like every other human being and should confess those sins. Many have already done so.

You imply in your post that hating is wrong. Do you carve out an except for Southern Baptists or are you capable and willing to forgive?

this issue is certain to alienate some people. ecuman states well that anyone who is repentant should be brought back into the fold ( the body of Christ ). there are some who are homosexual and do not participate ( i.e repent = to turn away from )and those have a rightful place in the body (read 1cor.5:1-8 and then read 2cor.2:5-11 ). many Christians get accused of being hateful and unforgiving when they are simply adhering to God's word. forgiveness is a huge key in our Christain success but so also huge is our ability to rightly divide the word of truth. gtony also said it well that there are some ( me for instance ) who can hate the sin in someone's elses life ( as well as sin in my own life )but truly love the person - i believe that is an exact reflection of who Jesus is.
we would all do well to understand tha tGod has two very distinct natures...one is mercy and the one which most people always cling to and will cite how wrong others are when they judge.....the other nature of God is Justice and if one does not fully appreciate this side of God, they are missing God's heart in it totality. you MUST read the entire old testament to begin to understand God's judgement side and when you do you will actually begin to love God more ( imo ).
turkey day is around the corner and i have so very much to be thankful for and some of that is the people i blog with - i have learned much and i am learning to hear the other side of the story - for that i thank you all....have a blessed holiday !

While I agree that some Baptists (along with all other faiths) can be divisive and hateful, I believe they are the minority today versus several decades ago. I remember dating a woman who's parents were die hard Southern Baptists. They had that "holier than thou" attitude and thought you would burn in hell for drinking, dancing, and even playing cards. But they would not hesitate to use the N word in reference to black folks. That hypocrisy floored me and disgusted me. By the way where does the Bible state that drinking (in moderation), dancing, and playing cards are sinful?

We are Catholic and send our son to a Baptist preschool. I had reservations at first and we even asked the church management about their views on Catholics. They were very positive about people of different faiths and we have had no problem.

I do understand ECUMANs post that people of different faiths follow the tenets of that faith even if they are unpopular with others.

" By the way where does the Bible state that drinking (in moderation), dancing, and playing cards are sinful? "......
i think you'll find that in 2Hesitations 6:66.
only kidding !
dan i am sure you realize that you son will be subject to hearing many different ( from catholic teachings ) Christian tenets in a baptist preschool, provided they have spiritual instruction. does this worry you in any way ?

ECUMAN,

You said it wonderfully. We do love you. But we cannot accept your sin or pretend it doesn't exist. Homosexuality is not a person, it is a practice. Everyone is tempted. To give into the temptation is the sin. If you repent from the act of homosexuality, if you ask God to heal your heart, mind, body and soul and seek his will in your life, you will be forgiven.

If you want to continue in sin and expect God and his servants to tell you everything will be alright, that shouldn't happen. Christians would be doing people a huge disservice if we do that--regardless of the sin.

I agree with some of the other posters here that there are bigots and hypocrites in church. They are everywhere. Jesus came for the sick. These people need God's love as much as anyone. They, too, should repent before God.

I hate to be the one to rain on Gay Tony's parade, but by definition one cannot be a Christian and a homosexual. It is just not possible.

Gays should repent of their immorality and strive through discipline to reject sin, like many others do with lust, envy, anger, greed, etc.

To ask Christians to sin by rejecting the Gospel, does not make up for the core wrong of homosexuality. It only increases the sin of the rest of us.

Changing gears to a less theological vein, I still can't understand how people continue to attempt to redefine morality in order that it will suit their vices. Where is its logical end?

Buz, I'm not worried about preschool. The kids are only 4 and really don't understand the myriad of religions in the world, much less the differences within a religion. They simply say prayers at the beginning and end of the day. Most of the time is spent learning numbers and other stuff 4 year olds need to learn.

I have always been curious as to why there are so many versions of the Baptist faith, Southern, Freewill, Primitive, etc. My best buddy in college was from the moderate wing of the faith. He and his family would drink alcohol, dance, etc. and had not a lick of racism.

Anyone with knowledge in this area like to chime in?

" but by definition one cannot be a Christian and a homosexual. It is just not possible. "

working backwards from this statement.....any person who is Christain was never a homosexual and any homosexual person cannot be Christian. if a person is homosexual and is introduced to Jesus Christ and that person accepts Him as Lord and savior the homosexual is now a Christian ( immediately ! ). our eternal fate is sealed when we get saved - our salvation (imo) is a daily growing process, so therfore a saved homosexual would expect his old nature to daily be replaced with his new nature.i can tell you first hand that after i was saved, it was not immediately apparent to either myself or any of my friends - but as i grew daily in faith and matured, i started bringing forth fruit. this poster would have me believe that a sinner ( i.e homosexual in this case ) needs to clean up their act and stop sinning BEFORE asking Jesus into their life......i cannot find one example of this scenario in the N.T. -i believe the repentant thief on the cross next to Jesus proves that the requirement is repentance. the Jesus i know says "if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." He did not qualify his statement by saying " after you stop being homosexual and get your life right, i will then sup with you " - the invitation from Jesus is come as you are and i will show you the Way !

“Homosexuality is not a person, it is a practice.” Homosexuals and Heterosexuals are people, people created and loved by God. What you are born as is not a choice. White, black, male, female, blue-eyed, tall, short, heterosexual and homosexual are not choices. When blacks were slaves, would you have chosen to be black?. With all the hatred and prejudice against gays and lesbians, would this be a choice you would make? To condemn someone for the way they are born is alien to me.

God made us with free will. To sin we must make a choice to do so. If you take the Bible literally, you cannot pick and choose your sins. The Bible is a guide to be used with prayer. We all were given a mind, and I think God expects us to use it.

I wonder what the Baptist Convention’s policy is on divorce and remarriage.

Thou shall not commit adultery. (One of the Ten Commandments)

Matthew 5:32: “But I say unto you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.” Also Matthew 19:9 and Mark 10:11-12.

Adultery is mentioned many, many times.

Please share with us the scriptures on homosexuality. It is not mentioned in the Ten Commandments.

What is the Baptist Convention’s policy on the death penalty, war, and abortion? Thou shall not kill.

I address these questions to the members of the convention who make the policies and those Baptists who support them. I certainly do not lump all Baptists into one group.

Can anyone tell me what Jesus spoke of homosexuality? I'm just curious cause he's the man and whatever he said about it, I'll support.

hint:you wont find anything cause Jesus said nothing about homosexuality. And anyway, being a homosexual is no worse a sin than any other sin (according to that bible thing)

dan,
i remember when my sons were 4 yrs. old, man the stuff that they would repeat. they were like huge sponges at that age and even though you may believe they are not learning anything, you may be very surprised one day when your son comes homes and makes a statement which opposed catholicism.i can tell you that baptist and catholics do not have a lot in common as far as theology goes.
..........................................
" I have always been curious as to why there are so many versions of the Baptist faith, Southern, Freewill, Primitive, etc "
dan i suppose for the same reasons the catholic church is very diverse and divided, i.e. : roman catholic, orthodox,anglicans, evangelical roman catholic dialogue on mission, lutheran -anglican, methodist-anglican, eastern rites cathoilc, western rites catholic,greek orthodox catholic, etc. to name a few. i suspect the answer is .....if you don't like what anyone else is saying/teaching, you break off from that group and tweak the teachings to your liking and then eventually you will have followers (imo).

The Bible is available online for anyone to see. I won't get into providing scripture for this or that. It's there if you are interested.

I would like to address two posts though that suggest that because Jesus didn't say it or because it isn't one of the 10 commandments that it isn't relevant. The entire Bible is relevant and must be interpreted based on the guidance of the Holy Spirit. To pick and choose isn't getting the entire picture and does not represent the entirety of God's instruction to us.

God doesn' condemn us for the way we are born. We condemn ourselves with our sin. God freely offers salvation by grace to all. All we have to do is accept it. It is our choice whether to do that or not.

Regardless of what the Baptists say or how any other denomination interprets things, there is only one Truth. (and it isn't me)

b.harper,
" Can anyone tell me what Jesus spoke of homosexuality? I'm just curious cause he's the man and whatever he said about it, I'll support. ".....
to follow that type of logic is simply absurd. can you show me where Jesus spoke of having sex with a 6 yr. old girl ? after all he is the man and i'll support what ever he said.
....................
c.dunn,
while the ten commandments ( which ten commandments are you referencing, the christian ten or the catholic ten? )were an awesome set of rules that God established, they were just a foreshadow of the new covenant ? it seems as if you are saying, if it is not in the ten commandments then there is no validity to the remainder of scriptures which speak against homosexuality ! " Please share with us the scriptures on homosexuality "....are you not aware of any scripture(s) speaking against homosexuality ? here is one which should be heeded " 1Cr 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, ". if you are so inclined to do some research of scripture and the greek wording, you may want to check out what 'effeminate' is referring in the quoted scripture. if not interested them simply continue to argument from ignorance.
it seems obvious that when God determined that adam needed an help mate, that interestingly enough he created a woman to that task. He (God) then charged them to multiply (gen.1:28). that could not have happened if God created adam as homosexual. as much as some people want Chritianity to be all inclusive, God has chosen it to be otherwise and we are not at liberty to change that.

Tony Morton: You speak of hatred by the Baptists, yet your post seems to exude a fair amount of that which you condemn. Your points are generalizations. You are judging all by the actions of some. By YOUR logic, all blacks are looters (Please people, this is NOT my personal opinion but only being offered as an illustration of how wrong generalizations are.)

Carol Dunn: You speak of the Ten Commandments but might I mention that these were given in the OLD Testament to the Jews. They are kept around probably because they are, for the most part, considered good rules by which to live. In case you're not aware, there is also a NEW Testament. The difference? I'll let you find out if you're interested.

Thanks, Buz, for the quote. As you can see, it includes adultery again. While I do not believe divorce is a sin, those who insist on the literal interpretation of the Bible must include this "sin" as well. You said we can't pick and choose. There are more divorced and remarried folks than homosexuals.

My church believes that there is that of God in every man and that salvation is between the individual and God. Let's all try not to judge one another. That's God's job.

These Baptists have every right to hate who they want. They can hide behind "love the sinner, hate the sin" all they want, but everyone knows it is just a facade for their bigotry. You don't see them expelling churches over gossip or gluttony (anyone who has been to a fundamentalist Baptist church can affirm that these issues need to be addressed within the church...lol).

The good news is that people are waking up to this extremism. Most fundamentalist Baptist churches I know about personally are losing members at a pretty high rate. Those who are growing have changed their name to exclude the word "Baptist". And anyone who has ever had contact with fundamentalist Baptists knows how they fight amongst themselves. I can name at least 5 fundamentalist Baptist churches which are going through a split right now. Such love!!!

Issues such as this should not even be debated with fundamentalists. We all know where they stand and as modernity continues, their opinions will become increasingly irrelevent. Let them discuss their hate among themselves!

The really cool thing is that there are many growing progressive congregations in Greensboro. These include Presbyterian Church of the Covenant, Congregational United Church of Christ, New Garden Friends Meeting, Friendship Friends Meeting, the Unitarian Universalist Church, College Park Baptist Church, Epiphany Presbyterian Church, New Creation Presbyterian Church, Holy Trinity Episcopal Church, Holy Spirit Episcopal Church, St. Barnabas Episcopal Church, Resurrection Lutheran Church, All Saints Episcopal Church, St. Mary's Episcopal House, First Friends Meeting, Jamestown Friends Meeting and many others.

Racism, classism, sexism and homophobia are not up for debate. Your not going to change their minds (although God can) so why bother with any kind of dialog? Dismiss their intolerance and they become a muted voice. The homophobic views of these folks will eventually be gone as was their stand on slavery. It's only a matter of time.

Truth:

I think that you have confused me someone else on this board. I am NOT a homosexual. You are forgiven for the mix-up, however.

your welcome c.dunn,
what confuses me with your comment " those who insist on the literal interpretation of the Bible " what parts of the bible do YOU believe are literal or do you believe the bible in it's entirety is just a good bunch of stories ? you seems to justify homomsexuality by stating that there are more divorced and remarried folks than homosexuals.
while i find it difficult to discuss scripture with people who neither know the scripture or those who say that it is not to be taken literally. often i find the later to use scripture only when it defends their point of view. i would pose these questions to you, have you accepted Jesus as your savior, have you read the bible in it's entirety (while petitioning the Holy Spirit to guide you), how much time daily do you spend studying the word, how much time daily do you spend in conversation with God, are you active in sharing the gospel with the lost and directing them towards the kingdom, are your a servant.
i find it interesting that you would say " Let's all try not to judge one another. That's God's job." i suspect you say this through ignornace - see if this speaks to you " 1cor.5:12 It isn't my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your job to judge those inside the church who are sinning in these ways. 13 God will judge those on the outside; " so you see paul teaches that Christians have the reponsibility to judge those within the church (i.e believers)and God will judge those outside (unbelievers).it is only thru study of the scriptures (as guided by the Holy Spirit)do we get a personal understanding of the word of God, otherwise what we end up with is what someone else tells you the word of God says, then you ultimately end up living a borrowed faith. i suggest you study to shew yourself approved unto God, one who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly explains the word of truth.be like the Bereans !!

Hate is NOT a family value, and I believe that these churches in the name of "jesus" need to get with the program.

My apologies ECUMAN. I didn't mean to imply you were. I was using 'you' in the general sense but after reading my post again it seemed to imply something different.

If you were, I'd say you were having an identity crisis.

Your post really captured everything I wanted to say and I should have left it at that. Sometimes I feel as if I have to post just so readers know that others share their view. I think people need to know that it is okay for them to take a stand against sin and their are others out there who agree.

Those who contrast divorce and homosexuality are grasping at straws. The topic is homosexuality. If you are gay and you practice homosexual sex and you do not repent from it, you are going to hell. You can't live your life with one foot in and one foot out. You remember what was said about the lukewarm Christian?

If you got divorced, that is a past event. That isn't a present action. If homosexual acts are a past event in your life and you've repented, you are okay.

Anyone who tells you that you can live a life of sin without repentance and enter the kingdom of God is a liar. They are decieved and they are decieving you.

Anyone that tells you that homosexuality is not a sin is a liar.

It is but one sin and there are many, but it is a sin just the same.

It doesn't get much simpler than that.

truth,
you've captured the truth ( pun not intended ) some want to divert the essence of scripture by wanting us to believe that the argument is about sin - the argument is about sin that is unrepented for - end of story (just as you stated)! progressievixen says that the hate the sin and love the sinner mantra is a facade for bigotry - what i believe is that he has no personal capacity himself to be able to immulate that nmantra, therefore he thinks no one else has that ability. while we have others quoting scripture in their defense but in the same breath say scripture cannot be taken literally. i wonder what this scripture means literally " Lev 20:13 - If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.
". can we possibly find anything positive in that scripture for a homosexual ? some others on this post confuse hate with obedience...it's the old shoot the messenger mentality.

Truth:

Thanks for responding. No offense has been taken. Soemtimes we don't communicate as clearly as we want. I guilty of that too. Don't sweat it.

ECUMAN~

You took my post to be an attack on the baptist faith. I re-read it and tried to see your perception, but was not successful. On the contrary, I was merely stating that the Baptists religion has simply done what many homosexuals have been asking for and that is to take a stand in their church regarding homosexuality. My comment about converting if you were Baptist was directed to homosexuals who feel they have been abandoned by their church. If that is the case, perhaps the Baptist faith is not the faith for them. I would in no way speak hatefully (intentionally) of the Baptist faith. Both of my sons are VERY active in their Baptist church. If you were offended, I apologize, but do ask you to re-read my original post.

Jeffery Sykes~

You have not rained on my parade. I am gay and I am a Christian. It is actually not a difficult place to be most days.

I used to have two friends that were Baptist. One straight, one gay. We got on the subject of Catholocism one day. I was shocked to find out that neither one of them believed Catholocism to be a true religion (even though it is the oldest know Christian religion). Obviously I was hurt because my mother is Catholic. But I think what surprised me the most was that my gay friend seemed to be more judgmental of it than my straight friend.

Again- if anyone has taken my posts to be an attack on Baptists, please forgive me...that was not my intent. I do have concerns about the strict beliefs of the Baptists faith and constantly ask my sons to be sure to keep their open minds while studying the bible. I ask them to be sure when they believe something, it is because they actually believe it!

Hope everyone has a Happy and Peaceful Thanksgiving.

Gaytony, just a curiosity question. You state you are gay but refer to your sons and I thought you had referred to your wife in previous posts. Am I missing something here?

WELL GOOD MOONIN' PEOPLE!!! GOOD MOONIN'!!!!!! It's been a while since I've been in here and voiced my opinion but I figure this here topic is worth my two cents. I mean, after all, I am probably the biggest country bumpkin in here and I reckon my opinions matter about as much as Mr. Rockefeller and Mr. Harper, two of the biggest hippie liberals in here.

SO HERE WE GO!!!!!!!!!!

Dan ~

Naw, you didn't miss a dag gum thing. Mr. GayTony is gay, proud, and wraps the rainbow flag around himself with a grin on his face from ear to ear. Mind you that he did so after he procreated children with his wife (that he was somehow not attracted to sexually but was obviously able to be aroused by) and then later divorced so he could be with his "partner". Does this confuse anyone else other me? Seems a little ass backward (as my dad would say) to me....*no pun intended*

To Everyone ~

I understand that some people may have trouble facing their "true feelings" but I must say that I feel that homosexuality is more of a "lust" issue then anything. As I have stated earlier, I can't think of any species on Earth where homosexuality NATURALLY occurs so it seems as though Mother Nature didn't design men to be with men and the same goes for women. I simply refuse to believe it is an inherited trait and it's "natural" because if it was....they'd be able to produce children. Everyone understand that?

Now if some hippie starts trying to dig up some crap where frogs in the Amazon practice homosexuality I am going to smack you up side the head. Even if they do it is a RARE OCCURENCE and they DIE OUT because they CAN'T reproduce. Furthermore, some species have the ability to CHANGE SEX and I believe I'd have sex with "Fred" too if he started perking out boobs and grew a vagina.

Moving along...

On a Biblical note, to my knowledge, Jesus didn't speak out about homosexuality himself; however, Buz Rutan adequately countered that arguement by saying "he never spoke about having sex with a 6 year old either." Truth and Buz have truly taken the words out of my mouth as far as the spiritual side goes and I commend you for your eloquent words and tactful arguements.

"Lev 20:13 - If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them."

End of story...really isn't much to "interpret" there is there?

Ya'll keep in mind that I am not being judgemental of people, because anyone who knows me knows that I am just not that way. I actually DO have several gay friends and hang out with them on a regular basis. One of them just found out he is HIV positive as well and I have done my best to be the best friend and supporter that I can be. He knows exactly what my thoughts are about homosexuality and still realizes I love him more as a friend and person.

I encourage all of you to be the same way.

In the end, the Baptists convention did the right thing by drawing the line in the sand and letting the world know where they stand. For once, I agree with the long-winded Baptist who always hold services too long and make you get to the cafeteria so late you have to wait in line for an hour. HAHA!

The Infamous J,
i have not had the pleasure to address you before and i do so respectfully. you stated " Ya'll keep in mind that I am not being judgemental of people, because anyone who knows me knows that I am just not that way. "....however you also said " Naw, you didn't miss a dag gum thing. Mr. GayTony is gay, proud, and wraps the rainbow flag around himself with a grin on his face from ear to ear. Mind you that he did so after he procreated children with his wife (that he was somehow not attracted to sexually but was obviously able to be aroused by) and then later divorced so he could be with his "partner". Does this confuse anyone else other me? ".......is this a supposition on your part or do you claim to be stating fact ? this diatribe you have launched against gtony is neither accurate or true and you need to apologize to him. you have painted an ugly picture of this man and from what i know as factual, gtony is married with children and is repentant of homosexuality. you have been extremely judgemental (unfactually & unfairly) of gtony and i do not pretend to speak for him but will aid in his defense. anyone who reads these blogs reaizes i am am basically a fundamental believer and should understand my stance on the sin of homosexuality (as well as any sin ). gtony if i have overstepped the boundaries here please forgive me.

I don't usually post on this blog, I prefer to leave the debating up to my husband, but today I feel I must respond to The Infamous J.

You claim to not be being judgemental of people, yet your comments about gaytony spewed judgement. Who are you to assume that just because he says he has kids and is gay that he must have married some woman, left her with kids to take care of so he could run off with his boyfriend? By using some stereotype that you believe to be true about all homosexuals, you have attacked a man's character that I am fairly certain you have absolutely no first hand knowledge of. You did get one thing right. My husband is a very proud man! He is married, to a woman, because that is who he fell in love with. Our hearts love who they love, there isn't always an explanation that makes sense. Yes, he has children, he is a great father and yes, he is gay. We have a good relationship and we are raising a loving family together. He is a God-fearing man and has struggled greatly to live a life that God would approve of and want him to live. Sounds to me like he should walk around with a grin on his face and if he wants to be wrapped in a rainbow flag while being proud of all of these things then who cares? It has not always been easy, but living by God's word isn't always easy now is it? Regardless, gaytony certainly does not deserve to be attacked with such ignorance. I agree with Buz, you owe him an apology.

Buz- thank you so much for your defense of my husband, I know that he will appreciate it. I'm not certain that repentant of homosexuality would be the exact words but I do know that he wants very much to live the life he believes God wants him to live and to obey God's word and do the things he thinks that God would want him to do.

Mr. Rutan,

I thank you for your comments but keep in mind that I am not in 5th grade, don't need to be told when to apoloze, and rarely do so when someone tells me to. The main reason is because if I am being told to apologize, it means that I haven't already done it and don't really see a need it. Therefore, I would much rather do it when I feel it to be necessary and actually have some sort of meaning to it. So thank you for your comments....but I'll decided when and where I need to apologize and refrain from throwing things out there to just make someone feel better about themselves.

I don't know if you where in here a while back or not, but there was a blog on here where a young man named "Tony" just so happened to have children, divorced, and gay. He went through a long shpill about how he was gay and left his wife and children and still maintains a happy relationship with all of them.

May have been another Tony....but I kind of doubt it....

If it was another "Tony" and I have GTony's story completely wrong, I apologize to him. If it was this one, I stand by my words.

Thank you and good night.

I don't know what I was thinking...but I meant "Apologize" instead of apoloze. HAHA!

Sorry my question sparked such a controversy. I remember Gtony referring to his wife & children, then in this post he said he was gay, so I was confused. You cleared it up for me Mrs. Gaytony, thank you. I hope you all have a very happy Thanksgiving.

Buz,

Thank you for your kind words. I truly hope you and your family have a wonderful holiday.

Mrs Gaytony-

Thanks honey. I love you very much!

For the record, yes I have been married twice. I however, did NOT leave my first wife for the gay lifestyle. Rather, my first wife left me to be with a man she was having an affair with. Between marriages, I did lead a gay lifestyle, but have been monogamous with my now wife and BEST FRIEND of 19 years since December of 1997. That's right...almost 8 years now.

To address the issue of wrapping myself in the rainbow flag and being proud. I am very proud of who I am. I am a good father, a descent husband (I think) and a strong believer in family values. I have struggled through the years with the homosexuality being a sin, and though I don't necessarilly think I am repentant, I am abstinent from it. Wrapping myself in the flag? Well, it does have many good colors and would be easily accesorized! To be truthful, most people who I socialize with have no clue about my sexuality. I don't feel a need to shout it out from every roof top. However, I do feel the need to be honest with my friends...and on this blog because it has been necessary to ptoperly explain my point of view.

gaytony,

I admire your honesty with your friends and with yourself. I also admire your stance that you don't feel you need to shout it from the rooftops and be up in people's faces in order to be honest about who you are.

We all have our own issues where we have a natural tendency to do things that may not gibe well with what we believe is the 'right' thing to do. I congratulate you on your 8 years of faithfulness and marriage and think it is great that you have such an understanding wife.

Have a great thanksgiving, T.