Less hyperbole, stereotype, and more information will be a good thing, Mr. Johnson.

The REAL Problem is Recidivism - we have NO program except "Lock 'em up" - so let's just build another Jail in your back yard - now what was that address? Hey - it's more employment for America - beats Wal-Mart jobs by a billysyick!

===

.... actually hard crime is down significantly - has been steadily declining for a decade or so.

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

Of course, "past perfomance is no indicator of the future", or what ever they sat.

Contrarily - Over the past 25 years, Marijauana arrest are up a bunch, although most are "simple possession".

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/crime.htm

... and many of them are sent to jail, where they learn how to become REAL criminals.

These policies are misguided and politicized. There's a special that often runs on Cable (The Discovery or History channel?) that is titled something like "The history of Drugs". Watch it.

"Generalizing from the findings on Prohibition, we can hypothesize that decriminalization would increase the use of the previously criminalized drug, but would decrease violence associated with attempts to control illicit markets and as resolutions to disputes between buyers and sellers. Moreover, because the perception of violence associated with the drug market can lead people who are not directly involved to be prepared for violent self-defense, there could be additional reductions in peripheral settings when disputes arise (see Blumstein & Cork, 1997; Sheley & Wright, 1996)."

Source: Jensen, Gary F., "Prohibition, Alcohol, and Murder: Untangling Countervailing Mechanisms," Homicide Studies, Vol. 4, No. 1 (Sage Publications: Thousand Oaks, CA, February 2000), pp. 33-4.

There was something in yesterday's N&R (online) that I can't find right now that reported a former NC Supreme Court justice as saying that drugs use should be decriminalized to help ease prison overcrowding. I don't remember if there were specifics about what drug, how much posession, etc, but it was interesing. I believe he said that we lost the "war on drugs".

JDR,
as always you are informative and well versed. i respect that in you. i was wondering if you ever spent any appreciable amount of time in jail ? going to jail is an experience that can make or break a person ( imo ). many many years ago when i was a young man ( i was a hippie in the 60's )i made some serious wrong choices and ended up in jail, where i stayed for nine (9) months. you are correct that jail is a breeding/training ground to further your criminality and also to build your network. the vast majority of those inmates i was with during that time had zero interest in rehab because they believed crime provided an easy/lazy way to get what they wanted (usually at any expense). you didn't come right out and state it but if i correctly read between the lines, you are in favor of NOT arresting/locking up those persons who ONLY possess marijuana ( if i misread this i apologize ). i can tell you first hand that jail time can be a deterrent to crime (even possession of pot, for which i spent 9 mos. in jail). after having all priveleges revoked for those 9 mos., i came to some revelations about what is and is not important in life. this past weekend three teens from the church i attend ( one of the teens was the pastors son ) were caught with cases of beer, open containers and marijuana in the car. i have been telling the pastor for 1.5 yrs. his son is in trouble with drugs, sex and alcohol. well the randleman police officer did NOT arrest they three teens, just kinda wrote them citations and called the parents. this kind of catch and release menatlity only confirms in the teens minds that it is ok to be caught in randleman with booze and drugs. these three teens on monday at lunch time simply drove off campus and got stoned and returned to school....what did they have to fear....nothing !! our police, parents, society has become numb and accepting of simple possession and in effect say it's ok. maybe, just maybe if they had been arrested and placed in jail and knew they had to face criminal prosecution for their illeagle activities, then maybe they would have been afforded the same opportunity i was many years ago....that being loosing all freedom as a consequence of their actions and then being afforded the opportunity to sit in a stinking jail house and stew in your own misery and maybe come to a revelation like i did.

Buz: Thanks for the kind words - I am opin'yon'ated that's fer sure!

I would suggest the kids in your story were not let down by the cop but by the parents who obviously had not spoken early and often with their growing children about good and bad decisions - and further let down by not seriously clipping their wings after this incident.

Seems to me you turned out OK - it' sad that you had to rot a few months when some earlier good guidance might have helped ...

... all with a caveat - It's now a different world. When you and I were growing up, Pot Smoking was not nearly the big deal it is now. My late-teenaged kids recently found out I was a stoner in my youth, but I frame it as a "made that mistake so I know where-from-all I speak ... " kind of message.

These days, kids know it's HIGHLY frowned upon with HUGE consequences, however it's still too rampant - apparently at my kids' HS there is a LOT of it going on. The kids know, many parents are clueless or in denial.

I support you in trying to do the right thing, I have on at least one occassion "ratted out" to a parent when I thought the kid was doping out - apparently I was wrong, and I feel bad about it, but I feel worse turning a blind eye to evil - as most in here know (lol).

I do feel that it is past time for a new jail. I've, unfortunately, had to visit the jail recently (just visiting like the monopoly board says). It is pathetically overcrowded. I believe the conditions are inhumane.

What many fail to forget is that often there are folks in jail who did nothing wrong. You could easily end up there yourself even if you did nothing wrong. And I can promise you that a stay in our jail is no picnic--even by jail standards.

Now...about changing those laws. Personally, I think an adult should be able to take any drug they want. Now giving it to someone else is another thing.

But I do believe that it should legally be okay for an adult to do marijuana, cocaine, or any other drug of its choice. It's basically been proven that law enforcement cannot rid our country of these items. So regulate it and stick a tax on it and let people deal with the consequences of their own actions. They do with alcohol and other vices. I see no real difference in regards to drugs.

I just think its futile to try to stop adults from doing what they want to do. Did we learn nothing from prohibition?

I can't complete a thought today. And I promise I'm not on drugs. Just lack of sleep.

What really bothers me is the idea that drugs like marijuana, cocaine, meth, heroin, etc are BAD drugs. But, honestly, I've seen more drug-related problems in my family and elsewhere that deal with pharmaceutical drugs that are legally prescribed by doctors.

For instance: prozac, welbutrin, ritalin, lithium, oxycodone, xanex, etc etc etc. These drugs create drastic changes in the brain and often these changes are irreversible and cause even worse problems.

More jails aren't the answer; better family supports; more suprevised individualized non-jail programs; more appropriate school placements; more "for adolescents" to do after school, in their free time etc. I don't know many programs/activities directed toward this population. And, as I understand it, the school system has been dinged again by a reduction in its budget. Maybe if we put the cost up front, the recidivism, as mentioned above, might be LESS. Jail puts a stigma on an individual, as a former counselor, that's a tough one to live with. Hold the person accountable, do an appropriate assessment to see what was behind the inappropriate behavior and then individualize some kind of accountability.

Times are tough (not giving an excuse)--I'd like us to jump on the Big White Collar Crimes that are really hazing people's retirement etc. We would have a different socio-economic population there. (I almost forgot, they have expensive lawyers). I better go, my wife is waiting and I don't "want to be late"!!

I'm with you, Dan - what is "BAD"?

Did you know Heroin is really not "Bad" for you? I mean it doesn't harm you physically or screw up your brain waves like many "legal" drugs do.

It does make you feel SOOO GOOOD you have no interest in doing anything else, like eating ... and it is addictive, but an argument can and has been made that is it like white sugar: a highly refined natural plant product that is relatively save - of course too much sugar gives you diabetes.

There's an old hippy expression - we all know someone killed by a drunk but no one shot by a pot-head.

I'm with you, Dan - what is "BAD"?

Did you know Heroin is really not "Bad" for you? I mean it doesn't harm you physically or screw up your brain waves like many "legal" drugs do.

It does make you feel SOOO GOOOD you have no interest in doing anything else, like eating ... and it is addictive, but an argument can and has been made that is it like white sugar: a highly refined natural plant product that is relatively save - of course too much sugar gives you diabetes.

There's an old hippy expression - we all know someone killed by a drunk but no one shot by a pot-head.

Sorry, Truth - I not only double posted but called you Dan - twice (lol), and kept several misspellings. Multitasking is not a good thing - now where's that dexedrine .. .

truth my friend...hello,
" But I do believe that it should legally be okay for an adult to do marijuana, cocaine, or any other drug of its choice. "

" I've seen more drug-related problems in my family and elsewhere that deal with pharmaceutical drugs that are legally prescribed by doctors. For instance: prozac, welbutrin, ritalin, lithium, oxycodone, xanex, etc etc etc. These drugs create drastic changes in the brain and often these changes are irreversible and cause even worse problems. "
.................
which one is it....illegal sreet drugs are ok and adult have free choice.... or.......
legal doctor prescribed drugs are bad and mess you up ?
i am surprised you take this stance for it does not seems to line up with what you claim to believe. we should not take the path of least resistance because it is convenient. will you tell your children it is ok to do street drugs because you already know there is nothing you can say or do to prevent them from it ? if you know to do right and don't do it, for you it is sin. i see that i am in the minority here on this issue, but i hold out greater hope for our children. respectfully

jdr,
i agree the parents are the prime suspects here, however are you stating that the police actions were appropriate ? do YOU believe these teens should have been arrested and charged ?
for the record, the pastor and i both have 17 yr. old sons and we made a pact three years ago to divulge information which one may know while the other did not know, in order to protect our children. so i really don't feel i ratted anyone out. i did what i did because i love that whole family, i do not get ant perverted joy form being the messenger of bad news ( and i realize you were not implying this ).

well I don't know enough to comment on the specific case, and I'm neither a judge nor lawyer.

In general - if the kids were under 16, and they had the fear of God put into them, and the parents take positive firm long term action, with measured milestones giving the kids a chance to rebuild trust through appropriate long term behaviour - then I would say yea - not pressing legally was prob' the right thing to do - this first time.

There're a lot of "IF's" in there ....

If they screw up again, we're building a new jail in the original letter writers back yard.

Buz: I think you missed what Truth was saying.

jdr,
if i did the truth man will set me right. it just seems that if we give in because "we've lost the fight on drugs" and say lets legalize all drugs ( for adults )then what is to prevent us from becoming accustomed to those who murder, the day may come when 'some' may feel they they lost the fight so let's just legalize it. i know that is an extreme example but the more one is exposed to the same over and again it seems to loose it's shock value ( and perhaps its moral value )! i just can't go there.

Thank you Joejoe! I have worked with inmates at state and county level. I was also once on the other side of the fence/desk. imnsho, the big question of the prison system unfortunately continues mostly unanswered; what are these guys gonna do when they get out? No matter how tough you make it in prison, how long the sentences, sooner or later that person is getting outWe arrest (good word arrest) folks with serious addiction, mental health and behavioral issues,hold them down in conditions that would drive a healthy person mad, tell them this is what you deserve, then turn them loose after a period of time and say, "Now don't do it again or you'll be punished harder." Then we are baffled and angry when it doesn't seem to work and blame the prisoners for being recalcitrant and bad. What is our part? Protecting the public and providing safe and sanitary housing are the core criteria of the prison system and they are truly important. However, doing something more than punishing with a captive audience is cost effective, humane, and hopefully something that will be more of the goal of our truly remarkable American society. There are some jail administrations that seek to not only punish but to recover the human beings that are imprisoned. Its not just about the criminals, its about how we treat the criminals. More programs would be nice Joejoe, more money for the guards too.

Buz,

I agree that most drugs (legal or not) do have bad side effects. I'm not advocating that adults shouldn't have the right to take doctor prescribed drugs or 'street' drugs, however. I think, as adults, we should be free to make our own choices and realize that we will face the consequences. Not only that, but our loved ones will also have to deal with the consequences.

They pretty much already have that choice. If someone wants to do drugs, they are readily available. I just think the war on drugs is ineffective and counterproductive.

What I'm saying is that the war on drugs in and of itself is creating criminals who know they can make quick money doing something illegal. If drugs were legal, taxed, and regulated, I think that would get rid of a lot of drug dealers very quickly.

Personally, I would warn my kids about the dangers of drugs (All drugs). I would warn them about the consequences of doing those drugs. I would also warn them about alcohol and cigarettes and other vices that might have negative consequences.

Specific drugs aren't discussed in the Bible but I think God's stand would be similar to verses about drunkeness and keeping your body as a temple.

But I have to realize that adults are free to make multitudes of choices that will have negative consequences. God gave us the ultimate choice, whether to accept his salvation or perish in hell. If he felt we were able to make that choice, surely he would feel we are able to decide whether or not to indulge in drugs, etc.

This isn't an easy issue for me. It's not that I'm pro-drugs and can't see bad things on either side of the fence. I've seen first-hand what drugs do to people. I just question whether what we are doing now is any better than the alternative.

I completely respect your opinion on this and truly appreciate the candor and openness you have for such discussions.

I find much wisdom in your words and I'm impressed at your knowledge on many subjects. I enjoy these conversations.

How about letting people buy blood pressure, diabetes, and arthritis medicines without a prescription? Surely, no one is getting high on these. Why can't we let people monitor their own blood pressure and control it with properly marked prescriptions?
It turns out that 3 times as many people (15 million) are addicted to prescription drugs as illegal drugs (like cocaine). It is also true that fewer than 10% of all prescriptions are taken as directed by the doctor.
This country is in love with pharmaceuticals and the arbitrary laws that govern them. So, we will need to keep building jail cells as the number of drugs increases.

Destiny,

What I would love to buy without a prescription is antibiotics. I know when I have a sinus infection. And if the antibiotics don't work, then I'll go see a doctor.

I don't know if my former response got in or not. To briefly restate in case it did: Legalizing everything isn't good either because people can unwittingly overuse, misuse and then abuse and then become substance dependent. They want relief from pain!!! (I'm being sincere).

There is also the question of polysubstance abuse and then taking other medicines that are contraindicated because of other medicine that you are on. You can, again, unwittingly poison your body--most of us don't know chemistry at that level. Again, no more jails, at least for the simple users. One last thing, and this I'm pretty sure of (?) taking medicine (drugs) involves a trade off of sorts--maybe not big now, but over time it can mount up. I think that there are situations that need to be monitored, not that we are not adults and can't choose responsibly---abuse, dependence and addiction creep up slowly and then BANG. Medicines of hypertension etc.---may involve blood levels. I still don't have the answer

This is my last comment: regarding the above wanting antibiotics. That, as I understand it, is one of the most misused medicines people use. We build tolerances to that medicine and can soon find ourselves in a situation where our bodies are immune to anti-biotics--one by one.
Then when we need it--sorry!!!

I'm for free choice but what are we making our medicine (drug) decisions on? Short term--maybe great---Long term, in deep trouble.

Joe Joe:

I'm not a Dr., and don't even play one on TV, nor to I buy my insurance from Geico nor have I recently stayed in a Holiday Inn - So I could be wrong ... but as I understand it:

You are Right On about Anti-Biotics. Their overuse and abuse over the years has caused Super Pathogens which are immune to them. It's a serious but underreported crisis, ask any doctor (see my caveat's above).

The worst news is there are few new ones in the pipeline to replace the now ineffective ones. It has to do with them taking a while to develop and not being hugely profitable like, say Viagra (which is clearly more useful to Mankind - I'll refrain form the obvious jokes.)

So take all complaints to those that talk on these blogs about how Corporations are the best thing America has going ...