Let's get a bumpersticker:

POTTER FOR CONGRESS.

SIGH!

Writers like Ms. Campbell are the ones who encourage class warfare. It seems in her dismal world there are a few hundred rich people and the rest of us are standing in soup lines.

I doubt Ms. Campbell noticed, but despite 9/11, war, and many natural disasters, the economy is humming along. Unemployment is under 5% http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/SurveyOutputServlet?data_tool=latest_numbers&series_id=LNS14000000

And just that friendly reminder: the bottom 50% of income earners pay 3.46% of Federal taxes.

Not sure about Ms. Campbell, but I'm not ready to throw myself off the bridge yet or even join the soup line.

Dan:

I'm sure we'll agree to disagree, but a couple added thoughts:

-- the unemployment number is very deceptive, all it really counts is the number of folks that worked for a company on the "unemployment plan", who became unemployed, filed for unemployment compensation, and then either found a job or couldn't find a job within 6 months.

Them's a lot of caveats, and for these reasons, it is a dangerous statistic.

Some background:

- I am a company that is not on the "unemployment plan" - I choose to not join, so if my contracts dry up, I am making no money, de facto unemployed, but collect no unemployment and am therefore not in the statistics.

Anyone that cannont find a decent job after 6 months goes "off the dole", and is considered "no longer looking", and not in the statistics.

One corollary is: in a prolonged recession, such as recently experienced, many fell off the 6-month count. Don't ask how many, because there are - by definition - no statistics are kept. In fact, the politically best recession last long for this very reason - the pain is hidden.

A second corollary is: most of the homeless are not counted.

... and just these friendly reminders:

when taxes were first set up, NO-ONE making under $50,000 (today's money) paid ANY income taxes.

most if not all the top 50% of wager earners paying 96.54% of the taxes have the opportunity to do so because they live in America. If you play the 14th hole at Augusta, you must pay the club dues. Few if any of those playing the 14th hole at Augusta worry about their next meal.

... and just this friendly jab:

If you really think that there is no growing divide in this country, stop listening to Hannity.

Is the economy humming along? Many make that cavalier statement based on GDP statistics.

Here's a typical but real scenario (happening in many places - textiles, furniture, even engineering):

A company has 100 workers, and revenues of $10,000,000. To achieve everyday low prices, they lay off 90 workers - buying from China the stuff these workers were making locally - keeping high paid exec's, a secretary, and the shipping / receiving dep't. The stuff comes in cheap so you can offer low prices to your customers, and still pay yourself the exec' salary, and still report revenues of $10,000,000.

The economy's doing fine statistically, but 90 folks are unemployed, and after 6 months, they "stop looking".

I love that phrase: "stop looking". Actually it makes me sick.

"If you play the 14th hole at Augusta, you must pay the club dues"

Nice one JDR. You made my point exactly & I'll rephrase your quote to: "If you want to succeed in a capitalist society, it involves work and effort." A bunch of whining from the have nots about the haves will still leave them have nots. They should instead work their buns off to become a have.

As for your friendly jab, I'm listening to Rush at the moment, Hannity isn't on till 3:00.

As for your second post, a primary reason textiles and furniture manfacturing have been offshored is because of consumer demand for cheap goods. If we didn't demand it, it wouldn't be there!!

As for "stopping looking", if I were laid off I would wash toilets at the bus station before I'd stop looking.

You keep your job JDR, I'd hate to have a smart guy like you standing in a soup line with Ms. Campbell.

Dan, Just to add a couple of thoughts to the posts by James: Apparently you are totally dismissing the fact that China is backing US debt (buying up US dollars to keep them from completely being devalued). Otherwise, how can you say our economy is "humming" along?

Since we are several trillion dollars in debt with no means to repay that debt, how can our economy be "humming" along? And with companies outsourcing jobs on a daily basis, how can our economy be anything but dismal?

GM is just the latest company that is laying off employees. But it is mind staggering that 30,000 people will lose their jobs. How does this tie in with an economy that is "humming" along?

It does not compute even with my limited knowledge of economics that we could be in good shape financially as a nation. I just know, no matter what I am told to the contrary, that if I owe big bucks to whomever and I have no job or no money, I am in deep do do. I know my economy is extremely dismal, not humming along. And I know there are millions like me, right here in the "richest" (LOL) nation in the world.

I think it is a bit silly to say "Consumer's Demand" low prices. I mean - don't we all want to pay less for everything?

Textiles and furniture prices were not lowered significantly until the Off Shore Option became available ... the short term price strategy will be a long term disaster. After all what CAN'T be made cheaper for 30 cents per hour vs. 20 bucks per hour? Nothing. So why not just shut it all down now and send everything over there - including the job of the selfish CEO asses that are using this "Consumer's Demand ... " rational.

While I'm all for being in a Capitalist Society - America is no longer a true Capitalist Society, and that is my real point, Dan.

America is now a Society where some hold all the levers and write the rules to make sure they never get to see the short end of the stick. To me, that is very contrary to what the framers of the Constitution and the writers of the Declaration of Independence intended.

To me this is obvious, but apparently the personal purse of Federalist Society members come before America's Constitution.

Yvonne, I know libs see the economy in the eyes of government, but my post is referring to the economy in terms of private sector production of products and services, consumers buying these products and services, and the jobs that are created as a result of that.

Yes the government does add to the economy, but as I have stated many times before unbridled spending by Repubs & Dems in government is creating their financial mess.

As for GM, I will ask you this. Honda, Toyota, BMW and other foreign companies produce vehicles in the US. Why are they not laying off tens of thousands? The answer is that these companies do not have the level of union mandated health care burden and other benefits that GM has. GM spends 6 billion annually on healthcare. They have decided to become a car manufacturing company rather than a health care company or face demise.

A good economy does not mean that every sector is 100% perfect and every worker is making exactly what they want. Overall this economy is very good considering what we have been through so I will stick with my humming along phrase. Even though the hurricanes this year were awful, their destruction will generate an economic boom in the gulf region for the construction industry and anyone who manufactures consumer goods.

I know you work in the healthcare industry but not sure what you do. I work in healthcare and it's booming. Nurses are in such great demand that they are being recruited from foreign countries. I met one recently who came from the Ukraine and have met several Canadians.

If your personal economy is "extremely dismal" you need to look around for another job. I don't want to see you in the soup line with JDR.

JDR, America is a country where a guy like me can leave my so so job, come up with an idea and make a living out of it. I'm a one man business and made $14 in my first month of business in 1998. This year my sales will top $250,000. Of course that is not my net, I have vendors to pay :) I don't know of any other country where I would have the freedom to do what I do.

So you and Yvonne keep looking at the "dismal" side of life. I'm an optimist, if something is wrong in your life and you have the power to change it, then do it.

You're right - GM management agreed to pay workers $1500 / car and give them guaranteed employment even after they are laid off. No one was forced to take the deal, but you and I will be picking up the tab, and I think Yvonne's only point was this was an indication of a not-as-healthy as the numbers indicate economy.

Do we have an obligation to pick up the scraps left by the GM management types? Do we have an obligation to hold the GM management types for any kind of responsibility? After all - they are always harping "We take the risks ... ", but when they lose, you and I pay the bills.

No one forced anyone to buy SUV's, but some did rail at Congress for using MY Paycheck as a $100,000 subsidy for the purchase of beasts. Of course, for getting mad at congress, writing my senators, and aggressively talking about spending my money in a way I thought was wrong for everyone and everything, I was labeled a "dismal" doom and gloom'er that didn't understand "Market Forces". Baloney.

We agree: it's unbridled spending by congress. It's also corruption by congress and the general population with an "if they don't catch me I'm innocent" attitude. We are SUCH a hypocritical Christian Nation. Rail at me for saying so but it's true.

Many liberals may be foolish bleeding hearts, but many conservatives are thieving selfish bastards. I said many not all, and I take pride and extraordinary steps to assure I am neither.

Many poor exploit the system. Many well-to-do exploit the system. I said many not all, and I take pride and extraordinary steps to assure I do neither.

My life is certainly not dismal, but I'm also not so naive nor callus as to over look the disadvantages many suffer.

I wholly agree if one has 1/4 of an opportunity, one has a 200% obligation to take the bull by the horn.

I have also seen unchecked prejudice which removes opportunity, as well as unchecked greed. To speak out against these things is not looking at the dismal side - at least not as your stereotype implies.

I see the dismal side, but due to the grace of God do not live it - I see it and I speak out. There is a big difference, and you know it.

Dan, Unlike you, I am speaking for many, not just myself. I am a nurse and have been for many years. While I make very good wages and my personal economy is in fine shape, I see, first hand, many who are not so blessed. I choose to champion the less fortunate rather than bask in my own good fortune.

I am a realist and put away my rose-colored glassed long ago. As James said in the previous post, the haves (who have much more than I) are making the rules to keep their wealth. Companies are being given obscene tax breaks to help the American economy but are outsourcing to other parts of the world. This is putting the screws to the working poor of this nation. And I don't give a rat's butt what YOUR philosophy is about working hard and getting ahead, it just ain't happening for the majority of this country.

Yes, I pulled myself up by my bootstraps and have made a good living for myself. But, thank God, I did not devolop a superior attitude regarding what anyone else could do. I KNOW there are good people who have worked as hard as you or I and have not had the breaks we have had. (How many people have had the opportunity to live in France for a year, even as an exchange student?)

Yvonne here is your quote: "I know my economy is extremely dismal, not humming along."

Now you say you make good wages and your personal economy is in fine shape and that your are just looking out for others who are not in good economic shape. Well which is it? I've got a moving target here.

Yea I guess my philosophy of working hard and getting ahead is a prescription for failure for the majority of the country as you state. Seems to have worked for you, me, and JDR, why is the MAJORITY of the country heading for the soup lines?

Remember the "luxury" tax a few years ago? Expensive cars and yachts received an extra tax burden. Remember what happened? The rich folks quit buying them for a while. Who got hurt? The hourly workers.

Guess what rich people do with money? They invest it and spend it. Who does that help? The hourly workers.

Spreading wealth by taxation is just a bad idea - more socialist than anything, in fact. Give the folks that pay the taxes the breaks and help the folks that are down and out and need temporary help to get back on their feet. Long term handouts are killing this country.

Too many opinions expressed here to coherently wrap the discussion into a single comment. My only input is that the shift offshore started many years ago, not last week.

Anybody remember the "Made in America" campaign started by Roger Milliken on behalf of the textile industry? He saw the tide turning but no one would pay the price for American made textile products at a time when the extra price could have made a difference.

At the same time Milliken was spending millions to persuade people to buy domestically made products, tv news shows were showing the number of foreign-made cars sitting in textile parking lots and textile employees buying foreign made textile products. Pogo was right.

What happened to the steel industry? Nothing simple...just that the Germans and Japanese started with brand new government underwritten facilities which incorporated the latest innovations and technology. This coupled with the featherbedding practices of the unions, with concurrence from management, left the mills behind the times technologically speaking and with a workforce who would not accept needed changes in pay and benefits practices. Same with auto, glass, rubber, etc. industries who had captive audiences who had little or no other buying options.

Same thing happened to textiles and furniture, with the exception of onerous union contracts. New, government subsidised plants, coupled with cheap labor left US manufacturers at the mercy of negative free market forces. Layer on a heavy burden of government regulation and you have a recipe for todays situation.

One furniture executive told me he costed out a piece of furniture and excluded labor costs, included money costs and shipping costs from China and still couldn't make it as cheap as he could buy it from China. Moreover, most of the hardwood used in furniture manufacturing comes from the Appalachain region. How could it be...Chinese subsidies and effeciencies resulting from the latest machines and equipment.

These comments are for all you folk who are under the impression that if you "pull yourselves up by your bootstraps" then you can participate in a culture/society and profit from participation. You have to first assume that opportunity is available. Currently you would need to move to India to participate in the American dream. Ironic? Very. Jobs that do not pay a living wage to support one person, much less a family are extremely common. Education is the answer? Try to get a student loan or a grant for secondary study. This is not reasonable due to the fact that a loan would have to be repayed and chances are that you won't be able to afford repayment due to the fact that you have to support yourself or your family. Let's not forget the obstructiveness in which corporations in our country operate. They don't give a damn about how educated, intelligent, experienced or productive you may be if you do not fit in with their current mode of hiring. If you don't fit in with the "white male regime" then you are pretty much screwed. There are some exceptions to what I have written here, but I think you would agree that the successes of those who have to pull up their bootstraps are the not the norm in a society that places more value on what you have as opposed to what you are. It's sickening. I have witnessed firsthand the discrimination of older people and black men than any human should ever see. I have worked for some of the biggest corporations in this country and they are the worst violators. I would name these corporations here, but to do the fact that I could be sued, I will refrain. The government of our country does not give a flying pig's ass about women, children, and other minorities. If you think they do, refer to Hurricane Katrina.

str8jckt,

Man, I think you need to chill out a bit. If it is so bad here you might consider moving to Canada or somewhere. Last time I was up that way I did not see any fences keeping us here.

Also, I saw the devesatation of Katrina first hand - a very real, very large natural disaster. I was there helping - just wondering did you go down there to help or just reporting what you saw on the news? What impressed me the most was the large presence FEMA had and how the people there were impressed with thier efforts. What I also saw was their disdain for their local government and how they totally dropped the ball. We need to quit expecting Big Brother to pick up all our pieces for crying out loud!!

I advocate helping all that truly need help but not the life long hand outs that so many have come to expect. Also, I personally put my money and time where my mouth is so don't come at me with some "holier than thou" stance. This is the land of the free not the freeloader.

str8, so the white male is keeping you down huh? My brother works for a major corporation and has seen women & minorities with less qualifications get promoted for the sake of diversity. I had a female with much less experience get promoted over me.

Getting a student loan, you have to pay it back? Imagine that, it is called a loan after all.

You are an angry person, I would suggest bgh's advice and chill out.

Good post bgh and I admire your work after Katrina. People like you never make the news, just the whiners who can't do anything without the government.

Str8jkt is obviously a lazy person who refuses or lacks the skills to advance and succeed in American society. He is the type of person who makes the rest of us have to deal with the idiocy of Jesse "Pandering" Jackson and Al "Dull" Sharpton. Keep thinking and acting like a victim and I can promise you will remain one. Meantime, keep posting in this blog and prove my point that most unsuccessful people are angry, lazy and "victimized". Your a lazy good for nothing human Str8 as long as you post such non-sense in this forum and I have no problem saying so.

ya know, I'm moderately smart and personable, and have become moderately successful for those two reasons - but being a white dude who speaks well has helped beyond immensely.

If you doubt that while hiring or in the award of contracts there is no perception of your race, background, age, etc, then you are a fool.

Now I am NOT an advocate of "quotas" - although I cannot think of a time when they have adversely affected me, they are clearly not where a government should be - but I'll be the first to defend the competent, and have seen the fabulous results from diverse opinions and ideas.

You wanna know what happens when you promote honkies because they are honkies? You get Brownies.

Dan, How like you to take what I said out of context! My whole quote was "I just know, no matter what I am told to the contrary, that if I owe big bucks to whomever and I have no job or no money, I am in deep do do. I know my economy is extremely dismal, not humming along." Notice the big word "IF"?

And what is wrong with your thought process today? I did not state hard work was a prescription for failure (as you stated). What is your rule de jour regarding factual quotes? Anything goes as long as you can twist a thought into your mold?

I, like str8jckt, am angry. I am neither a victim or lazy. I am just a hard-working woman who understands it takes more in this day and time to get your head above water and keep it there. Most of the poor I know are hardworking and believe God helps those who help themselves. And it absolutely infuriates me to have some condescending, judgemental person/people talk about them as if they deserved their poverty.

JDR, you are very smart & even halfway personable for an engineer ;-) I hope you keep getting those contracts, you must be good looking too. The lady who got the promotion over me was much prettier than I.

Yvonne: "And I know there are millions like me, right here in the "richest" (LOL) nation in the world."

Maybe you could have worded it differently, I read it that your economy is dismal and there are millions like you.

One thing I do know, it's rule DU jour. That year in France helped with that one.

You of all people are an example of someone who lived in poverty, realized it was a dead end, got an education, and now have a decent job. You should preach this accomplishment from the rooftops as an example to others instead of the negativity and anger.

Go ahead and stay angry Yvonne that is your choice. Life is too short, at 42 mine is probably about 50-60% over, so I'm going to stay optimisitic and thank God every day that I live in the USA.

"Brownies" was a seqway (how DO you spell that word!)

FEMA is getting good results on the ground? OK - I'll accept that - here're a couple reasons why:

Do you really wonder why they have more money to throw around? They do not have to balance the budget like the local folks do.

The Federal Government had four years to plan and the Department of Homeland Security spent a hundred billion dollars on programs to manage disaster. The Department of Homeland Security (DHS), has a three stated core missions. One is to "Minimize the damage from potential attacks and natural disasters". Right from their web site.

DHS was incapable of establishing emergency communications in the Big Easy. Why? The radios were not on a common frequency (Hello 911, anyone outh there - did we learn ANYTYHING), and the good equipment had been shipped to Iraq. Look it up, doubter.

They screwed up, and like any bad parent, they throw money at it to "make it better".

Who's money is that anyway?

A few suggestions for jacket about how to get an education:
-join the army and save your money while in.

-live in a shared room with another boot strapper.

-work nights and weekends for minimum wage and save.

-hitch-hike to work or buy a bike.

-go hungry a few meals.

-go for a work scholarship at the school. Hell, someone has to empty the trash and clean the blackboards.

-do your own laundry.

-buy used books.

-buy stale bread at the bakery outlet.

-shop at Goodwill.

-marry a rich woman-just a bit of humor there!!

Will it work? Did for this old linthead...and proved worth it.

But...it sure as hell won't happen if you spend your time bemoaning your fate.

Dan,
After reading several of your posts,especially the ones regarding letter about Howard Coble and right wing, you believe two things that I do not. You obviously believe every poor person is poor because they are stupid and lazy, and every wealthy person is rich because of their hard work. Having dealt with high net worth individuals for over 25 years, I can assure you that you are mistaken on both counts. The inherited wealth in this country is enormous and many "trust fund children" are absolutely devoid of hard work, but certainly share your belief that they are wealthy due to THEIR hard work.

Amen DemonDeaconDude

If things are so economically putrid in this country, why do we have 11 million illegals in this country and more coming every day? One would think that in such a sorry situation, people would be leaving by the millions, and I haven't seen any reports of that. Could it be that opportunity is greater in this country than anywhere on earth? It's funny that people outside of this country see the positives and want to live here, and people who were born and live here think it is the worst place on earth. I wonder who's right?

Deacon, please go find my quote where I said "poor people are poor because they are stupid and lazy". You won't because I never said it so don't put words in my mouth.

I said many (not all) poor people are poor because they dropped out of school, had children out of wedlock or at a young age, or got involved with drugs and alcohol. If you can refute that with facts please do so. Otherwise quit your whining.

Sure some people inherit wealth, you got a problem with that? There are also people who start with nothing and work their way up. Folks like you are simply class warfare baiters and can't stand it when others have more than you.

Go Heels by the way.

Oak Ridge - you raise a good point.

CLEARLY living in America is preferred to living in many other places.

CLEARLY living in America these days is not nearly as great as it was years ago, for example right after WWII - when most of the known world was a pile of debris and the USA was one of the few unscathed and civilized areas remaining.

Equally CLEARLY, living in America these days is not nearly what it COULD be.

I think that is the main point being made by many, including me.

In 1971, I bought my first car. It was CLEARLY better than bumming rides from buddies. My first used car was CLEARLY not as nice as my first new car. My First new car was CLEARLY not as nice as the car I now drive, which is extra nice because it's paid off. The car I now drive is CLEARLY not as nice the car could be driving if I wanted the monthly payments.

That's all ... think of the possibilities.

Hey Demon,

The "trust fund children" had intelligent and hard working relatives that created a good or service that made them wealthy and allowed them to pass it to them. Your envy is disgusting.

Poor Yvonne is sick of living in the situation she is in an observing others like her who accept what life hands thme rather than being creative and inventing new ideas and refusing to accept mediocrity. Obviously, she has never been desperate enough to make her own way. Good thing the inventers and trend setters of the world do not think small like her otherwise we would never have things like the printing press, airplanes, automobiles, computers etc. People are wealthy because they refuse to be boxed into a way of thinking and living. You will always be in your current situation as will others as long as they refuse to think bigger and better than most people. The problem is that our current government structure perpetuates a lack of creativity by hand outs and dependency. This is truth deal with it.

JDR,

You are a brilliant guy, but you do nothing but make people feel better about there mediocrity or uselessness with your moderate lets all get along posts in here. Someine needs to stir the pot and I am that someone.

JDR,

CLEARLY, things are never as good as we would like them to be, because human beings always tend to want more and better, regardless of what they've already gotten in life. I've seen a lot of years on this earth, and I have a lot of things now that I never dreamed of having in my youth. But, I see many people every day that are blessed, and yet, they aren't happy. They want more and more possessions, but they are enjoying life less and less. I do think that people were happier when they had less "things".

Going back to Ms. Campbell's original letter and its reference to "It's a Wonderful Life", that story wasn't about class warfare. She totally missed the point. It was about being happy and enjoying the life that you have, even without all of the riches. The point of the story was that each of us, no matter how apparently insignificant, has the power to make a difference, and that the measure of our humanity has nothing to do with fame or money, but with how we live our life on a day-to-day basis.

Finally, no, Ms. Campbell, it's Merry Christmas. "It's a Wonderful Life" is a Christmas movie, not a holiday movie.

Interesting, Burcham, I never though of my posts as "let's all get along".

I had hoped my posts - which reflect my personal positions - were more "Wake Up People, you are Cows being led to Slaughter", and I usually try to have some solid facts to support that position.

Maybe you have me crossed with someone else?

Oak Ridge:

I though we were talking about why so many immigrants still pour from sweltering oppressive poverty into America.

My point was even at it's worst, America beats sweltering oppressive poverty, but why should we settle for being better than sweltering oppressive poverty but also allowing a rapid decline into third world status.

Ya know, JC, I laughed a good belly laugh when I read your post in which you referred to me as "Poor Yvonne". Then I began to feel sorry for you. Surely you must be a miserable person who wants company. Hate to disappoint you but this one tries to stay away from your kind.

I consider myself one of the most blessed people you will ever meet. But you wouldn't know that because you don't know me. Otherwise you would not presume to make such asinine statements about what I have or have not experienced.

Unlike what you have suggested, I don't hate America. I have noticed, though, when I voice a complaint about an injustice, you waste no time in fabricating some BS about what I have or haven't said. You rarely address the issue, just berate me or anyone else who disagrees with you. And your lack of knowledge is glaring. It's a good thing others don't think as small as you.

The economy was the topic of this thread. I challange you to prove the ways America's economy is so great WITHOUT insults, personal attacks or assumptions. As Mr. P says, "Speak of what you know and know of what you speak".

JDR,

My opinion was that we were discussing the state of our economy and how miserable so many people are in our country today. I tried to make the point that, like Jimmy Stewart's character in the movie, we need to learn to be happy and appreciate the life that we do have. We all can make a difference and live our lives well on a day-to-day basis. Unfortunately, not many people have learned that lesson in our society today. All I see on these boards is people complaining about everything. My point was that we must be doing something right if so many people would rather live in this country. Everyone take a look around and wake up. Things are pretty good in our lives, we just make ourselves miserable worrying about what we don't have.

Point well taken, Oak Ridge.

I try to limit my complaints to legit' ones about our "Government" (and reserve the right to also complain about those who foolishly support said "Government").

to cutawad: I did not write my comments from my own experience, I wrote them as observations of what I have seen happen to others who found themselves in the cycle of poverty. Speaking of anger: Any mirrors in your house?

Oh, yea. forgot to mention that I did not refer to Katrina in the context you misunderstood it. Besides, if I'm so lazy as you insinuate, why do you have the time to sit at your or someone elses computer all the time handing out insults without any factual information? I get the idea behind this so-called blogging now. You can insult and ridicule people with anonymity. What crap. No worry, you'll never here from my white male ass again.

str8jckt - you really do need to chill - good grief. In what context was your comment about Katrina? Sorry you got your feelings hurt. Man you sure can dish it out but you can't take anything back. And what is this stuff about anonymity - is "str8jckt" your real name? Oh yeah, almost forgot - thanks for clearing up all the confusion about the color of your backside.

Jacket, did I mention anger? Helpful advice must be perceived as anger if it riles you to the extent of the vitriol in your comment.

And, yes, there are mirrors all over my house into which I look proudly, smile and say "Thank you, Lord, for the progress you and I have made."

Now, I ask you this question: do you do the same or does the grinch look back at you?

str8jckt, Your comments, observations and opinions are welcome here as far as I'm concerned. Even if you do not agree with me and choose to express your opposition in an angry fashion, I have no problem with you. But should you attack me personally, as some on this blog do on a regular basis, I will take issue.

But I will not go away for that is what those who are the most insulting want me to do. They don't want anyone to disagree with their close-minded, narrow little view of the world.

Unfortunately, you also upset their little apple cart with your opinion and the way in which you stated it. So they want you to go away too. Why let mean-spirited people run you off?

Another observation I would like to ask you about, did you get cutawad and JC mixed up? Cutawad and I disagree almost all the time and he has been known to occasionally question my sanity. But he usually employees a bit of tact when slicing and dicing while JC is blatently and purposefully disrespectful. (Talk about someone badly in need of an anger management course and I automatically think of JC)

Yvonne, "mean spirited" ahh come on! If one disagrees with you does that automatically make that person mean spirted? Besides, who wants straightjacket to go away? He/She made that choice. If you're going to throw jabs then you must be able to take a hit.

bgh, I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with me. It is all in how one does the disagreeing that I have a problem with. If one deliberately insults me on a personal basis, I call that mean-spirited. If one wants to question my opinion, that is anyone's right. But it is not OK to question my integrity or beliefs unless you know me.

To assume things or lie about what I've said, especially when one is trying to tear me down to make themselves look better, is mean-spirited. To call me lazy, callous or any other negative word (based on assumptions) is mean-spirited.

We are all adults, and as such, we should be able to disagree respectfully. I know we all have our triggers and respond inappropriately at times. But it seems there are some who post here that intentionally try insult, berate and belittle others with every post. Those are the ones I refer to as mean-spirited and it has noting to do with whether they agree or disagree with me.