If the prostitute had sinned again, regardless of how hard she really tried, would Jesus have accepted her the secondond time, with the same admonition: "Go and sin no more".

What if it happened a third or fourth time?

James D.

It depends on her attitude towards her sin. Is she DENYING that what she is doing sin or does she realize that it is sin and wants to change but merely stumbles?

I am a Christian. I am active in my church. I have read the Bible from cover to cover. I believe in the spiritual interpretation of the Bible. I “pick and choose” based on prayer and the message.

To my knowledge and the scripture quoted by the many people who have responded to the subject of homosexuality, there are 3 references used. None of these references come from Jesus. The word homosexuality is not mentioned except in newer translations.

I believe the Bible was written and translated by men, not God. Many of the traditions and requirements in the Bible reflect the times in which it was written. Some of the writers forbid women from speaking in church. Some show women as prophets and preachers. It is filled with contradictions. It can be used to prove almost any point. Slavery was justified by many using the Bible.

Each of us must find his or her way to salvation. I believe in judge not that ye be not judged, love your neighbor as yourself, do whatever is in your power to live peaceably with all men, man looks on the outside but God looks at the heart, and love the Lord with all your heart and your mind.

I have many friends and loved ones who are homosexual. It breaks my heart to see them condemned because of the way God made them. Someone wrote that you cannot be homosexual and Christian. How cruel that is.

Yet once again another one of those who uses the same old worn out defense that homosexuality is a sin!

This takes us back to the premises of interpretation and whether or not homosexuality is a sin.

These two issues in all likelihood will not be settled in this life. Therefore, I propose the following. If one believes that homosexuality is a sin...STAY AWAY FROM HOMOSEXUALS! If one believes that homosexuals are created by God in this fashion...fine...love then as God loves ALL people, just as God created them!

Shalom

Carol:

If you received a letter from the IRS that you owed back taxes, would you "pick and choose" what is relevant or would you read the letter in context?

Are you also saying that anything that Jesus did not explicitly condemn is morally acceptable? Jesus did not come to this earth to condemn slavery in the first century, he had a different purpose.

I have also read the Bible cover to cover. I try to read it along with everything else I read in the sense and precision that the author intended. The real issue is not acceptance of homosexuality, but acceptance of the Bible as God's Word.

" many people who have responded to the subject of homosexuality, there are 3 references used. None of these references come from Jesus. ".................
does anyone recall where Jesus spoke out against raping and sodomizing little children.....does anyone recall Jesus speaking out against abusing house pets ?.......the point is....that simply because Jesus did not personally speak about a given subject, does not mean that we can assume he was an advocate for those behaviors.
" I believe in the spiritual interpretation of the Bible. I “pick and choose” based on prayer and the message. "..........the first person i ever heard admit this!!
carol didn't you just recently state "I think enough has been said on this subject. I ask the N&R to publish no more letters dealing with this." on Nov.24
carol states " It is filled with contradictions." (referring to the bible).. she has relegates the bible to no more than a book written by man, just like any other novel. to her ( imo ) the bible holds no more value than say the writtings of Nostradamus. if we have no foundation to cite reference from, it all becomes an exercise in opinion.

Jesus said nothing about homosexuality. He said a heck of a lot about feeding the poor and loving unconditionally. There are three refrences to same gender sex in the Bible. All of these in the Pauline epistles. Compare those with the commands against judging, gossip, gluttony, anger, etc. Why is it churchies never have rallies against gossip or gluttony? It is much easier to get on a right wing politically correct band wagon than actually looking at ones on life and correcting the issues that need to be corrected.

And how does Rick know this is a "heavy burden for homosexuals" unless he has walked in thier shoes. Well Rick? Perhaps thou protests to much!

Thank God for Fred Phelps. He is only saying what these other Pharisee "Christians" are thinking. Come on guys, just admit it...you hate gay people and it has nothing to do with faith. It has everything to do with your bigotry.

Darryl:

If you think that murder is a sin, stay away from murderers. If you think that lying is a sin, stay away from liars. I hope that you use better thought processes in the rest of your life than you used above.

Why is is wrong to tell a homosexual that the activity he or she engages in is sinful and self-destructive, but it is OK to tell baptists that they are wrong and call them names? If "live and let live" is your motto, shouldn't you be consistent in applying it? Apparently it depends whether the group is part of a politically correct group.

And some people who claim to be Christians, think that it is more important to follow political correctness than follow God's Word.

To my limited knowledge of the bible, Paul was selected by Christ himself to spread the Gospel to the world.

So, it seems to me that logic would dictate the Pauline gospels are the inspired word of God, through Christ to Paul.

If Paul says that sexual perversion is against the will of God, then can't we rest assured he knew what he was talking about? Or should we just pick and chose the love without the discipline?

Some ask why can't homosexuals be accepted? Because, even in a scientific perspective, it is clearly unnatural and against logic for a person to have sexual desire for a person of their same sex. Reality doesn't work that way. It is perversion.

We are not talking about emotional relationships, or friendships. We are talking about men marrying men and women marrying women and a certain minority of humanity that feels the need to carnally know a person of their same sex to fulfill a desire.

No matter how it is dressed up and paraded as the new human right, homosexuality remains a perversion of nature, logic, and yes, morality.

Q.E.D.

JS,

Thanks for calling it what it is. It is a perversion. We dress it up with words like gay and homosexual. There's nothing gay about it.

God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah to extract that sick cancer from the earth so that humanity would not be pulled into such perversion and sinfulness. It was an act of love. At this point in our nation's history, we are turning our back on morality and letting people justify and rationalize everything based on their on worldly beliefs when it is clear and plain to any biblical scholar that homosexuality and other sexual perversions are wrong.

If you don't want to be a Christian, that is your choice. But you are playing with fire when you try to take away or add to God's word and portray sin and perversion as acceptable to God.

God will deal with you. I shake you like dust from my feet.

Here we are making judgements of our fellow man again and "picking and choosing" what parts of the Bible we want interpreted literally and what parts we want to take figuratively. Everyone who has posted on this thread is guilty of sin but some choose to think their sin is less than that of others. Sin is sin, folks, and there are no degrees with God.

So why don't we leave the judgement up to God as to who is serving Him as He requested and make an effort to improve our own behaviors toward our brothers and sisters in Christ? It could only make our world a better place if we all were to strive to "Love thy neighbor as thy self".

ECUMAN, I don't get the IRS analogy. Sorry.

Buz, I did say, and still believe, that enough has been said on this subject. I just can't help myself though, I have to respond if they keep printing these letters.

Don't you think we all pick and choose? If we didn't women would be quiet in church, be submissive to their husbands, cover their heads when they entered the church, not cut their hair; there would be no divorce and remarriage, there would be no war, no capital punishment, no abortion, no stores open on Sunday, and on and on and on.

OK, now I promise not to write anymore today. May we all someday live in peace with one another.

progressivexian ,
" There are three refrences to same gender sex in the Bible. All of these in the Pauline epistles. "......
i was wondering if the bible you read has an old testament ? your statement is incorrect and misleading. i recommend reading the old testament and pay close attention to genesis, 1 kings and leviticus to mention a few.
progressivexian logic dictates that the 'more often' it was spoken of means that it carries more weigh, how many times must God say "no" before it means no ??
to those who advocate homosexuality and say scripture promotes it, do you believe Jesus Christ engaged in that activity ?

"Come on guys, just admit it...you hate gay people"
......................
to speak out against sin is what each Christian is encouraged to do and some (like you) assume that is equivalent to hating, which it is NOT !

ECUMAN, as with Carol, I feel that what I have stated is misunderstood. I would have rather shared this with you directly, however, since there is no connection with you even with the "TypeKey" program the N& R uses, I will post here.

Again, I feel that I am misunderstood. I never stated that I was anit-homosexual, etc. And for the record, I would not disassocite myself from any oth those things/person listed, nor others. The God I serve commanded me to go to them. Therefore, I cannot and will not disassociate myself in such manner. And I NEVER stated that my motto is "live and let live."

As I have clearly and plainly stater previously here and on other N & R blog sites, the issues biblical interpretation and whether or not homosexuality is a sin.

And yes, I will continue to tell Baptists that they are wrong on this issue, from my view point and interpretation of scripture. As for calling Baptitsts names, I do not recall doing so. If I have, then that is for me to deal with in my own personal relation with God, NOT YOURS!

And I could care less what group is or or not "politically correct!" That makes no difference to me. I follow my instinct and God's leading for my life. It that puts me in contact with a "politically correct" group/s, then fine; if not, then fine as well!

I would rather follow God than to follow God's word. I refuse to become a bibliolotor! I do not worship scripture (Bible), I worship God! If that is wrong then there are more like me!

Shalom

Darryl and those on that side of the issue:

Why is it when you say someone is wrong, they're just wrong, but when I say someone is wrong it's HATE?

ECUMAN, first, excellent way of diverting the point. Second, find ANY post where I have stated that those of an opposing view from that of my own are "HATE." When evidence of that can be proven to me, then I will respond further.

Until such time as noted in the previous paragraph, address the points made and try not to switch off the point. People will respect that dialogue much better than that which redirects an issue/point.

Shalom

Darryl:

Which points have I not addressed either on my last post or in previous posts today? I will be glad to answer your points if you will do the same with mine. Switching off point could be an Olympic sport on this board.

Yvonne,
can you recall a time when Jesus comfronted sin and did not address it head on ? we as Christians are to do the same, i believe it was setup this way so that we are accountable to one another, thereby causing faith to grow.we cannot take the low road that our government has by "don't ask - don't tell"...all that leads to is self denial. ultimately God will just the unrighteous but we are also charged to judge other Christians, which helps to keep God's church holy !

Buz is exactly right. If you read the Gospel narratives, you will find that Jesus confronted those who were in denial of their sins (the Pharisees among others) and gave mercy to those who confessed and admitted their sins. We not not making up some new sin here. We are only agreeing which God on something that he revealed in his Word is sin. If you want argue that homosexual behavior is sin, go argue with God. He said it first, I didn't (I don't think He has changed His mind about it).

carol,
it wasn't my intent to run you off, i was just curious. you stated.............................. "Each of us must find his or her way to salvation"
to me that statement nullifies what Jesus said....
" Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. ".....there is only ONE way to salvation (according to Jesus) and this statement does not lend itself to each person to finding their way (if i have misunderstood please correct me ).

.................
ecuman i liked your irs story ! your statement put it well " The real issue is not acceptance of homosexuality, but acceptance of the Bible as God's Word. " this is the point i was making earlier when i said we need to have a foundation from which we all draw resource (i.e. bible), but some have already said the bible is full of contradictions and is merely a book written by man....this makes it very difficult to have a conversation about the bible with those who don't hold it in the same light ( i.e. God's word to man).

Another letter from some sicko religious fanatic living in la-la land. Makes me glad, once again, I left NC. We don't have many of your type here, thank god.

And we continue to allow the blind to lead us. We must not stop in the efforts to be heard and accepted at God's table. All who agree, make a simple brief post!

Shalom

i am a quantum physicists with a Pd.D in theoritical physics and i am looking for anyone on this blog with like credentials who would like to discuss the three quarks and gluons which comprise specific parts of the atom. but if you are not studied in this field please refrain from the discussion....otherwise your input would be based upon opinion or even worse...what someone else has told you concerning this. any takers ?

Tony Morton: "We don't have many of your type here, thank God." So anyone who has an opionion based upon their faith is a sicko religious fanatic?

You live in California and talk about people living in la la land? There are enough nut cases in Hollywood alone to surpass the entire South.

You guys spend extraordinary amounts of money on housing. I looked up realtor.com and in Santa Cruz where you live $175K will buy you a 2 bed, 1 bath trailer with a whopping 832 sq feet. What's the property tax $10K a year?

Then you have earthquakes, mudslides, wildfires, and a state overrun by illegals. I remember a 20 mile drive from LAX took me three hours and was told that's normal. Ah the price to pay to live in enlightenment, free from sicko religious fanatics. No thanks.

Buz, We will have to agree to disagree regarding mankind's judgement of mankind. There are too many references in the Bible that instruct us to refrain from doing this. The only one who is without sin can judge sinners, imho. And I'm not talking about anyone of this earth since we are all sinners.

I have not doubt about my place at God's table, Darryl. I do things I should not do, say things I should not say. But I know God loves me, forgives me and counts me as one of His own.

Personally I don't care if anyone else on this blog agrees with me or not. And since you are also secure in your belief, Darryl, keep standing for your beliefs.

yvonne,
" The only one who is without sin can judge sinners "

i can agree to agree ! :-)

Dan, What does where I live have anything to do with this blog? Santa Cruz is in Northern California and has many many churches. It's just that most of our churches have educated people who don't feel threatened by people different from them. And, yes, housing is very expensive here. There are fruitcakes here but most are not like the fruitcakes there. Our fruitcakes are more like the flower children of the past not like the KKK [who claim allegience to fundamentalist christian]. Earthquakes? Yep, we got those. I suppose it's god's punishment to us for accepting gay people. How bout them hurrycanes? I guess if you can't respond to the actual comments in this blog, you feel you can launch your attacks on where people live, huh? Oh, and you'll love this one....my house that I paid $265,000 for 9 years ago is now worth a million dollars [my retirement..pretty good return, huh] Geez..what a way to start a Tuesday morning.

Oh...Dan, you'll love this one too. My property taxes have not increased since I bought my house in 1996 thanks to prop. 13. My old house in Starmount has risen very little in value. If you would like I can provide you with a travalogue about Santa Cruz and our surrounding fruitcake areas like San Jose and whats left of the Silicon Valley. You would learn about things us fruitcake fags have to put up with.

Tony, frankly you can live at the North Pole and I really don't care. My point in discussing where you live was due to your holier than thou statement "We don't have many of your type here, thank God".

Then you go on with "Its just that most of our churches have educated people".

I have a high school buddy who lives in San Francisco and he too has the superior attitude that seems unique to the state. I guess it goes with the turf. Out of curiosity, if you think NC is such a backward place full of religious zealots then why do you even read this blog?

I've been to CA many times and there are some beautiful areas of the state, just too expensive for po southern boy like me. Well gotta go, I just read in the newspaper there is a KKK meeting this afternoon that I would like to attend.

Progressive writes: "It has everything to do with your bigotry." In this same post, progressive also clearly shows an intolerance for Christians. Hummmm..... shades of the pot calling the kettle black???

hey bunny....find any carrots over here ?

Dan: you are the one who made an issue of where i live. as for hating NC, that's just not true. my children and grandchildren live there. i was born there and spent most of my life there. the point i was making was not one of superiority but one of a difference of attitudes. California, especially northern California, is more liberal and is more comfortable for me. That is not to disparage NC. Probably when I retire, I will return there where it is cheaper to live. For me at this point in my life, I choose to live where i do.

oh...and i guess 'sick cancer' referring to me and other gay people should not make me angry.

Tony, I didn't say you hated NC, just read your statements about "your type of people" and your churches having "educated people". Just a bit of a superiority attitude. Please try to refrain from putting words in my mouth.

Why didn't you just say you are more comfy living in CA in the first place? That would suffice. I'm glad you like it there and hope your home continues to appreciate.

Not sure where the sick cancer thing came from, musta been someone else. Have a good one.