
John A. Bone / The Associated Press
John Wagner, 6, of Oakland, Md., talks about his experience shooting a deer last year as he prepares for this year's deer season.
I was saddened by the article "Healthy hunting or deadly game?" (Nov. 13) with its color photo of a 6-year-old child wielding a .223-caliber rifle in his own parents' living room. He killed his first deer at the tender age of 5.
Guns are dangerous weapons designed by adults to cause death. I think it's terrible that a young, innocent child should be corrupted in this way. I found the child's own words chilling: "I like it," he said. "Shooting a gun and shooting at the animals and killing them." Talk about desensitization. We need less violence in our society, not more.
This story related to Maryland, which has no minimum age limit for hunting. This is ridiculous. I hope North Carolina legislators will support a bill to establish a minimum hunting-age law here, if one doesn't exist already. As the Humane Society points out, a deer rifle is a long-range weapon that can kill up to a mile away. Should young, immature children be trusted to wield such deadly firepower? I think not. Children's innocence and natural empathy for animals also shouldn't be polluted by encouraging them to kill.
Kristin von Karowsky-Nelson
Greensboro


Comments (25)
IF, and I repeat,IF this young man was allowed to enter the woods and hunt ALONE the writer may have a point. I doubt very much if this is the case. I did not read the nov.13th article but I wonder if the article mentioned the child being supervised. My elder brother who was a great fan of deer hunting and taught me the same,would have never left me in the woods unattended until I was 13 yrs.old. And then he escorted me to the spot where I was to stay and he came to retrieve me at the end of the day.
This is not 'corrupting' an innocent child. This is teaching him to be a responsible gun owner. Far better to teach a young person to hunt deer than to join the local gang where they can learn to hate and shoot policemen.
"I hope NC legislators will support a bill to establish a minimum hunting-age law here". No,we don't need any more laws telling parents how to raise and teach their children. Hunting is a dying sport due to the lack of places to hunt. Too much urban sprawl. If any new laws are passed,they should address this problem,not the "minimum age to hunt" bill proposed by the writer.
Posted by neocon
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November 22, 2005 6:13 AM
One could pass off the writer's comments as uninformed drivel and for the most part I do.
If she doesn't think hunting is a good idea for kids she is perfectly free to not allow her kids to hunt.
To say that hunting teaches a respect for game and nature in general, that it teaches discipline and respect for firearms, and that it promotes self reliance would go beyond her understanding as evidenced by her contention that its "violence".
However, in the best tradition of nosey do-gooders everywhere, she doesn't want ANYONE to teach their children to hunt at an age SHE deems as too young. So she wants a law passed.
While I would hope that the legislature would give such a proposal the short shrift it deserves, one never knows anymore since we all have to wear seatbelts and wear helmets and in general are considered too stupid to walk without "government intervention".
And it all starts with ignorant positions taken by people like the writer of the featured letter.
Posted by Redsnake
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November 22, 2005 6:59 AM
Parenting is the job of the parents, not the legislators. I grew up in Ohio where missing school on the opening week of deer season was an excused absence. Perhaps Maryland is the same way. Regardless, it is up to the parents as to whether they allow their children to hunt.
I have two older brothers that love to hunt and did so from a very early age. Neither of them have ever been prone to violent behavior.
I question if the letter writer has less of a problem with the fact of a child hunting and more of a problem with hunting in general.
Posted by gaytony
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November 22, 2005 7:35 AM
Gun safety is as important a subject to teach to children as are swimming lessons.
Parents who fail to do either put their children at risk.
Posted by hugh
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November 22, 2005 7:43 AM
This letter is so bleeding heart I can't stand it. As you guys said, one person has a problem with kids hunting so we need new laws. I have never hunted, but the people I know who hunt are very respectful of firearms and current laws. They are also respectful of nature i.e. they keep what they kill and use it and they don't trash the hunting grounds.
I'm sure there could be a few idiots who would leave a 6 year old unattended with a firearm, but there are idiots who leave their children unattended at a shopping center as well, which I think is even more dangerous. Is there a law for that too?
I do enjoy fishing with my son. Yesterday FNC reported about new booklets PETA published about fishing. One of them said something like Daddy is a killer when he goes fishing. Couldn't find them on the PETA website. You a PETA member Ms. Nelson?
Posted by Dan
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November 22, 2005 7:52 AM
As the mother of 2 male offspring, I never bought them guns to play with. Guess what? They both grew up to have all their testosterone intact! 100% males, both of them.
Giving a kid a gun and teaching him to hunt, in my opinion, is just a stepping stone to Redman chewing tobacco, and possibly death from a fall off a 4 wheeler.
Dan has a good point about people leaving kids alone. Some people shouldn't even be allowed to reproduce.
Posted by Lilly
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November 22, 2005 9:27 AM
I believe in hunting only if you are going to eat what you kill. Perhaps 5 years old is too young to kill an animal. I wonder at what age our ancient ancestors teached their children to hunt for food?
The writer seems to feel that guns are completely bad anyway given her statement about guns in general. Guns are an effective hunting tool. Probably much safer than a kid trying to kill a deer with bare hands.
I grew up in rural areas and my father took me hunting (usually squirrel and rabbit, which we ate) and fishing. It was a good experience for me and it was also a learning experience on how to properly handle and clean guns. I have a good respect for guns and can differentiate between using a gun for hunting and using it to kill people. I knew the difference at age 5 and still know the difference today.
Perhaps there should be a minimum age regarding handling a fire-arm. But then again, age doesn't necessarily equate with maturity. And who better than a parent to know their own child's maturity and limitations?
Posted by truth
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November 22, 2005 10:42 AM
Lilly, thanks for assuming that all gun owners are redneck, tobacco-chewing fools who ride ATVs.
I'm glad your sons have their masculinity intact despite never being allowed to handle a firearm. I hope for their sake they at least learned how to handle a firearm safely at some point in their lives, since you decided to shield them from the world of firearms.
Did you teach them to swim, or simply to stay away from water? Did you teach them to drive a car, or simply prevent them from owning one of those things?
Firearms have the ability to be lethal, to be sure, but handled properly, they are no more dangerous than cars or swimming. In fact, WAY less people die from firearms every year than automobiles, and more children die from drowning than firearms in any given year.
The difference is, firearms (and hunting) are politically charged, so to speak. It's an easy issue to get upset about.
Posted by bullseye
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November 22, 2005 11:36 AM
"Far better to teach a young person to hunt deer than to join the local gang where they can learn to hate and shoot policemen."
True. However, I hadn't realized that these were the only two choices...
Posted by PotatoStew
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November 22, 2005 12:23 PM
What does squirrel taste like, chicken? Can't be too much meat on those varmits.
Posted by Dan
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November 22, 2005 12:54 PM
I think this is a man/woman thing. (Check out who wrote the letter.)
When my sons were little, I instituted a strict "no gun" policy. No toy guns, no water pistols, etc. So guess what? They made guns out of sticks. Why? They were boys. So I changed my policy.
Boys are not girls. And thank the Lord for that.
I learned to value the difference.
Posted by Independent Thinker
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November 22, 2005 1:35 PM
I know a little girl who LOVES to play with guns......but she never shot a deer in her life.
It comes down to parenting. If you do your job the very best you can, in most cases the kids will go out into the world like someone with some intelligence raised them. It doesn't matter if they are boys or girls.
Dan, I learned along time ago, not to eat vermin. Even the ones that live in trees.
Posted by Lilly
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November 22, 2005 3:11 PM
Dan,
Mama always cooked the squirrel and made gravy with it. It has been over 25 years since I ate squirrel, but if memory serves me it taste more like beef or venison than chicken. I remember it was gamey (kinda like chicken livers maybe).
Rabbit tasted more like chicken to me than squirrel. But it's been many years since I ate that either.
I haven't heard of ANYONE eating squirrel lately. I guess that just isn't done anymore.
Posted by truth
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November 22, 2005 3:32 PM
I don't have too much of a problem with all of your comments; what does concern me about the picture is what it would or could possibly mean for other kids who see this picture and don't have parents who take the time to educate etc. I know we can't hide every thing and maybe shouldn't, but this picture does glamorize guns and killing. I don't know what this picture is really trying to communicate?? I may not know the answer to my own question but with all of the shooting going on with kids, this is not a good idea. Some kids are borderline and have parents who have guns etc....
What about a kid wearing a condom?? safe sex????
Posted by joejoe
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November 22, 2005 5:33 PM
Hunting accidents happen all the time. If this kid was responsible for one, how would he deal with it, being only 5 years old? I'm not saying he shouldn't hunt or do whatever his parents let him do. I'm saying that there are issues that need to be considered that I think haven't occurred to these people.
Posted by spooge
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November 22, 2005 5:47 PM
Dan, Squirrel doesn't taste a thing like chicken, a bit like rabbit perhaps is closer. They have more meat than one realizes and certainly more than quail or other small game birds. I learned to hunt them when I was about 6. Dad gave me a 22 single shot and 6 shells. 6 because that was the limit per person on squirrel where we lived then. My shells were always limited until I was old enough to buy my own. I was always expected to bring home at least 4 squirrels out of 6 shots after I got old enough to go alone on our land (about age 12) I usually got at least 5 if not 6 if I didn't see that many, then I brough home my shells, there was no thrill killing allowed in my family. I learned that my 22 was a weapon and it killed what it was aimed at and that I should always treat it with respect and with responsibile thinking. I learned conservation through hunting. You don't kill what you won't eat. If the crop was scarce for some reason, then we limited our take according to the size of the crop. I learned responsibility in taking care of a weapon, keep it clean and it will work properly and will not be as apt to misfire or go off accidently. Safety was always on, period until ready to fire. I learned how to clean and cook what I killed also. Skin and don't hit the musk gland when cleaning or the meat won't be fit to feed the dogs, soak it in salt water for a couple of hours to take out the gamey taste. My favorite way to fix squirrel was to fry it in a black iron skillet, make some gravy, make biscuits, fry up some eggs and some green maters rolled in cornmeal and flour. Now that made a tasty breakfast after a morning of hunting or even the next morning. Rabbit could be fixed much the same way but I liked it stewed either in gravy or with veggies and served with water cress salad and cornbread.
Now that's my outlook on hunting, teaching kids to hunt and the responsibility that goes along with it and my recipie's for the day.
I taught my daughter how to shoot and to hunt at an early age. We no longer hunt but we do keep our shooting skills well honed. Never know when they might come in handy.
Posted by mrproduce
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November 22, 2005 8:28 PM
Dan, Squirrel doesn't taste a thing like chicken, a bit like rabbit perhaps is closer. They have more meat than one realizes and certainly more than quail or other small game birds. I learned to hunt them when I was about 6. Dad gave me a 22 single shot and 6 shells. 6 because that was the limit per person on squirrel where we lived then. My shells were always limited until I was old enough to buy my own. I was always expected to bring home at least 4 squirrels out of 6 shots after I got old enough to go alone on our land (about age 12) I usually got at least 5 if not 6 if I didn't see that many, then I brough home my shells, there was no thrill killing allowed in my family. I learned that my 22 was a weapon and it killed what it was aimed at and that I should always treat it with respect and with responsibile thinking. I learned conservation through hunting. You don't kill what you won't eat. If the crop was scarce for some reason, then we limited our take according to the size of the crop. I learned responsibility in taking care of a weapon, keep it clean and it will work properly and will not be as apt to misfire or go off accidently. Safety was always on, period until ready to fire. I learned how to clean and cook what I killed also. Skin and don't hit the musk gland when cleaning or the meat won't be fit to feed the dogs, soak it in salt water for a couple of hours to take out the gamey taste. My favorite way to fix squirrel was to fry it in a black iron skillet, make some gravy, make biscuits, fry up some eggs and some green maters rolled in cornmeal and flour. Now that made a tasty breakfast after a morning of hunting or even the next morning. Rabbit could be fixed much the same way but I liked it stewed either in gravy or with veggies and served with water cress salad and cornbread.
Now that's my outlook on hunting, teaching kids to hunt and the responsibility that goes along with it and my recipie's for the day.
I taught my daughter how to shoot and to hunt at an early age. We no longer hunt but we do keep our shooting skills well honed. Never know when they might come in handy.
Posted by mrproduce
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November 22, 2005 8:29 PM
DAng double posting again.
Hey Lilly, how come you don't like squirrel, heck them lil critters are as clean as anything living tame or wild. A heap cleaner than a chicken. Yea some folks still eat squirrel. I was invited to squirrel breakfast not too long ago. It was right tasty too cept they didn't have any green maters to go along with the eggs , biscuits and gravy. dang.
Posted by mrproduce
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November 22, 2005 8:33 PM
Just kidding about squirrel tasting like chicken, you know the story of when you eat a new type of meat you automatically say it tastes like chicken.
Never tried it, but I did try sheep brains in France. Yuk! I did like the pate de foie gras (goose liver).
Happy Thanksgiving!!
Posted by Dan
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November 23, 2005 9:17 AM
Mrproduce.
It's so nice to hear somebody else say they've eaten squirrel. Most people give me the most horrified looks when I tell them about my younger years.
Man, if you hear about another good squirrel breakfast coming up, how about giving me a call. My mom cooked her squirrel just like you said above. Black skillet with some gravy. Is there any other way?
Posted by truth
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November 23, 2005 10:37 AM
Atually truth, you can stew squirrel and add ingredients for gravy and make a stewed squirrel in milk gravy but it is not as good as fried.
I got ya in the goose brains, Dan but if it's got the word liver attached in any manner, I ain't eatin it. YUCK! As for , I beleive Lilly who said she thought squirrel would taste like liver or chicken livers, ARRRRGG, she sure never ate any squirrel like I ate.
Truth, I got tons of the little critters running around in my woods and enough different nut trees to make them think they have died and gone to the great land of nut trees in the sky. I have lived here a year now and the lil critters don;t even run from me. They know I won't harm them. I suppose if food was scarce and I could not buy food then I certainly could live off the land and live very well. Squirrel, rabbit, groundhog, raccoon, quail, pheasent, grouse and a few other variety of birds not to mention trout and other fish are abundant where I live. Heck I might even throw in a bit of deep fried rattler in the summer time. If times get that hard the fairways on the golf course across the street would make great garden space for corn, especially right along the creek. The greens would make great places for tomatoes and squash. So you see I have my survival well thought out.
If I do happen to get invited to another squirrel breakfast anytime soon , I will certainly think about you. Don't think you would want to drive 3 hours for breakfast when breakfast would be before 7AM.
Have a HAPPY THANKSGIVING, one and all.
No squirrel , just lots of turkey, gravy , cornbread dressing, smashed taters, smashed sweet taters with pineapple, pecans mixed in and loads of marshmellows on top, not to mention green beans, canned this summer, fresh hot yeast rolls and a few other veggies thrown in on the side, fresh beets canned this summer also dress the table along side lots of deviled eggs.
Pumpkin pie of course for those who like it , but heavenly coconut cake with icing standing like ocean waves smothered in fresh grated coconut and eqq custard instead of ice cream for topping.
Can anyone say AMEN!
Posted by mrproduce
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November 23, 2005 9:29 PM
Am I the only one who doubts the validity of this story? Since most of you who have commented here hunt, you know the firepower required to take down a deer. Now imagine a five year old trying to hold on to any of those weapons when it is fired. I doubt that he would be accurate or strong enough to take down that animal. A shotgun would put hime on his just-out-of-pampers butt. If you look at the picture carefully you will see that he can't even reach the trigger of the rifle he's holding. I think you've all been had and that includes the N&R editors.
Posted by Joe Schmoe
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November 24, 2005 8:31 AM
Joe, I believe the firearm the kid is holding is a 223 caliber which has very little kick to it. The kid while not holding the firearm well in the picture could well use a prop when in a stand , which I have to surmise that he hunts from, especially in the part of the country he is from. Using a prop, he could well reach the trigger. The firearm he is using does look a bit unweildy for this size of kid and I would hope that his parents provide a prop for him when he fires it. I can understand why you could question the validity of this kid using this particular firearm.
Yep a shot gun would set him on his butt especially one large enough gauge to take down a deer. I learned my lesson well when insisting that I could handle a 10 ga. shotgun at about age 9. It dang near broke my arm, sat me on my butt, and embarrassed the heck out of me. But it did do one thing. When told that a firearm was not appropriate for me, I listened.
Posted by mrproduce
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November 24, 2005 10:27 AM
I believe as parents it is our responsibility to teach our children how to properly do anything that they tackle in life. Whether it be learning how to eat, bathe,write, read or handle firearms. It's all up to us to teach them the right ways and not some stranger teaching them the unsafe ways of doing things in life.
I am a hunter and a mother of two teenage girls. Both my children have taken hunter safety courses and passed. So it makes me proud as a parent to know that I have taught my children how to be not only responsible but safe as well. I hope all parents teach their children safe and proper uses of anything they handle.
Posted by thumper
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November 26, 2005 12:09 PM
This is JoeJOe--if interested please refer to my brief above.
Parents, Parents, Parents---If I hear "it's the parents responsibility" one more time, I'm going to buy me a gun. There are some responsible parents, there are many who do care--but that's as far as it goes and then there are those parents who........!!?? If a parent responsibly teaches their children about legal lethal hobbies--go for it!!! But to my limited knowledge, MOST DON'T. I don;'t think that the picture should have been displayed. It glamorizes something lethal, and many may not agree with this, but video games are not only on the borderline, they are knocking on the door. I am not talking as a religious person, I am talking as one who has a good grip on families, parents, and kids.
Posted by joejoe
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November 27, 2005 2:22 PM