zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.............

This issue is so newsworthy the press will soon cover it with the same ferver they are still covering Cindy Sheehan,Rove-Plame-Wilson, Bush National Guard, Gitmo, Abu graif(sp?),Harriet Miers, yada, yada, yada....

In other words, give it two weeks and something else will replace it. LTTE writers sharpen your pencils in anticpation of new anti-Bush fodder and remember, it's not the validity of the charges that are important but how much damage the allegations can do to the President that matters.

If the press were smart they'd push the border issue to hammer Bush as that is the one matter that a majority of Americans can agree needs fixing. But to do that you have to demonize minority illegals, which is contrary to the democrat/liberal playbook.

hugh, I am not following the posting. The LTE is only noting that the LTE referenced no coorelation between the tragic death of the miner's in WV and the Bush issues. Could clarity be provided on the posting?

Shalom

Sorry Darry, I'm out of clarification today. I'll be better tomorrow.

You know hugh, that is the problem. People strive to get better understanding and that is the pitiful responses we get!

And then those people with whom understanding is sought berate, belittle, and name-call those who were seeking understanding and even possibly agreement!

Shalom

"... and remember, it's not the validity of the charges that are important but how much damage the allegations can do to the President that matters."

Hugh, No one, absolutely no one, is as adept at making false allegations as the Bush spin docs. What you described above is exactly what happened during the last election, only it was Bush and his spin docs making the false allegations aganist Kerry. Now that it has come back to bite him in the proverbial butt, is only a matter of what goes around, comes around. Or reaping what one sows.

The major difference between Bush's accusers and his spin docs is the accusers have an adequate foundation on which to base their allegations. Their allegations are not mere fabrications for the sake of political gain.

You are right, and have been proven so, when you said it doesn't make any difference whether allegations are true or not. False accusations are designed to do damage to someone else. Once they are made and repeated, they become fact for many. This is not just but it is reality. This, however, a moot point in the allegations aganist Bush. In this case, and so unfortunate for the Bush backers, the allegations will prove to be true.

You could not be more wrong about the "liberal playbook" and illegals. Speaking as a liberal, I can say unequivocally, no one is more outspoken regarding the way the US panders to illegals. You have been involved in this forum long enough to know I would gladly help form a border patrol for NC. I am more than a little weary of my tax dollars supporting subsidizes and freebies for those who enter this country illegally and are allowed to stay. Special considerations and exceptions are the rule of the day for illegals. They receive benefits even citizens of the US don't qualify for.

Bush's stand on this issue is like his policies on most things, totally inadequate. Had more people bothered to research Bush's background rather than listening to his political rhetoric (PC for bulls**t) before they voted, this nation would not be in the dire shape it is now, imho.

get a life

You didn't mind, hugh, when the press went after Clinton in Monicagate, Paula Jones or Whitewater all of which were more than adequately covered. If you didn't rush to defend Clinton against the excesses of the press, doesn't it make you niave or even hypocritical to expect that the press isn't going to cover the allegations against the Bush administration?

Hugh, you are right about the "liberal play book", its still the only thing liberals have to play with. All you hear all the time is Bush is this, Bush did this wrong, Bush mess this up, Bush ran all of our friendly nations way from us. Not once have I heard or seen any of these liberals with all the right answers come forward with a plan that can be discussed or any offer to stand with the President and try to help him with the war, or home land protection or any problems that have came up. I guess party comes before country. If you don't believe me, prove me wrong and show us where the liberal party has tried to help the president. Everything time they have voted with the President, they have came back and tried to undermine it so Bush wouldn't get credit for it working. Yea, that's putting your country first. I know you on the left will never agree with what I have said. You'll just bury your head back in the sand and make excuses for your leaders and keep looking to us as we think you are. Mindless robots for a batch of leaders to a party that has no soul.

Bobby, you are Left about the " conservative play book", its still the only thing conservatives have to play with. All you hear all the time is Clinton is this, Clinton did this wrong, Clinton mess this up, Clinton ran all of our friendly nations way from us. Not once have I heard or seen any of these conservatives come forward with a plan that can be discussed or any offer to stand with the President and try to help him with the war, or home land protection or any problems that have came up. I guess party comes before country. If you don't believe me, prove me wrong and show us where the conservative party has tried to help the president. Everything time they have voted with the President, they have came back and tried to undermine it so Clinton wouldn't get credit for it working. Yea, that's putting your country first. I know you on the Left will never agree with what I have said. You'll just bury your head back in the sand and make excuses for your leaders and keep looking to us as we think you are. Mindless robots for a batch of leaders to a party that has no soul.

way to prove his point james

Thank you for proving my point. You have no plan of your on.You have to steal what I say. You don't try to provide facts or evidence to prove me wrong. You just try to spin your way out. Pretty much like liberals aways do. Just try to make fun of them or cover up so you don't have to actually defend your position, if you've got one. So far you haven't stated it.

The deal is, bobby, the president is the one who is supposed to have the plan. He is the one who is supposed to be in charge. He's the one we're paying to be our leader. His only plan is to line his and his friends pockets and to appoint as many cronies to government positions as possible.

So all you can do is critize. I personal think that the president is doing a good job. But my point is that, can you guess where this country could be or how far along it could be if your side worked with the president, instead of constantly against him. Is the fact that he is a republican or conservative so offensive to you that all else is unimportant. I thought that when we were at war or had a common enemy, that maybe then, we could all be american. I guess I was wrong.

Bobby,

the fact is, many of us libs don't believe in the common enemy you speak of. Iraq? Nope, they aren't the enemy. Terrorism in Iraq? Yes that is the enemy but funny how there were almost no terrorist attacks in Iraq before we Americans botched the war.

The common enemy should be an administration that constantly skirts over and above the law. The common enemy should be those that suggest those of us that are against this war are aiding the enemy. (laughable)

The common enemy should be bush and co.

By the way,

I am an American, proud of some things my country does and ashamed of others.

If Hillary Clinton is elected president, would you support her? I highly doubt it because your belief sets are different than hers. Same with many of us and bush.

You have just proved that you are not an american. For you to hate and fear the president more then you do the enemy our soliders are fighting. You are from a different america then I am from. An please don't every come to mine. You are differently not welcome.
My america lived through the Clinton years. even then he was the President of the USA. Did I like him or respect him. No, I throuhg that he was one of the sorriest excuses for a human being there was. I still do. But at no time during his time did I want him to fail. Be cause if he failed, then our country would in part be in danger, too. To think otherwise is against any logic there is.
In answer to if Hillary was ever elected President, would I support her. Yes. Would I like the idea of her being president. No. But to try to damage her, I would only be harming this country that I love. Its sad to see that you are ashamed of your america. At no time have I ever be ashamed of mine. I have been ashamed of some of the leaders that were elected. But never this country.

Bobby,
Your flaccid support for Bill Clinton and your supposed support of Hillary is suspect. Under your scenario, we would all be goose stepping to the President no matter what he/she says or does. What makes america great is not standing behind the President whatever he/she does, but rather standing up against something we know is wrong and is against the constitution. Thank God we still have the freedom to speak out against our leaders when we feel they have overstepped their bounds. Now that the public has given into fear over civil liberties, we are giving away freedom everyday. If you are one who despised President Clinton for lying about sex, then how do you feel about your current President who has illegally wiretapped american citizens? I'm not a betting man, but I think you are probably a defender of Bush no matter what the case.

"The common enemy should be those that suggest those who are against this war are aiding the enemy. (laughable)"

From an interview with a north vietnam col.concerning the american anti-war crowd of that era. They too thought it was 'laughable' when someone suggested they were aiding the enemy.

"Support for the war from our rear was completely secure while the American rear was vulnerable. Every day our leadership would listen to world news over the radio at 9AM to follow the growth of the
antiwar movement. Visits to Hanoi by Jane Fonda and former Attorney General Ramsey Clark and ministers gave us confidence that we should hold on in the face of battlefield reverses. We were elated when Jane Fonda, wearing a red Vietnamese dress, said at a press conference that she was ashamed of American actions in the war and would struggle along with us .... those people represented the conscience of America .... part of it's war- making capability, and we turning that power in our favor."

Bobby,I wonder if Brian Harper and World traveler would cheer her on if Jane Fonda were to go to iraq and pose for a picture behind the wheel of a car bomb?

For better or worst, who we elect as president is that. The president of all of us. We have had presidents that I haven't liked or trusted. But till he is voted out after his term is up, he is still president of all the USA not just the ones who voted for him. I'm sorry some have a hard time understanding that. As far as the charge of illegal wire taps. Let me know what court has ruled that yet. I just hear a group of people who hates this President no matter what he does.
The fact that he is doing what he is sworn to do, protect this country against all enemies (foreign and domestic) with what ever means necessary. Since 911, this country has not been attacked. I guess he's doing something right. But you are right about one thing, there is a group of people who are following the leaders of their party in lock step, no matter what the facts are. If you think I was talking about the left. You are right. Never any solutions, just conplaints.

DD One thing I did forget to say about your commit about it is your duty to protest leaders you don't like. I don't know if it your duty, but it is your right. And with that, I have no problem. What I have a problem with is some of the ways it is done. When it is done to undermine and not explain what would be a better way of doing what you are having a problem with, I do have differents with. If you have a better idea than those you oppose. Than use it. Just to oppose someone because they are a conservative or have a R by their name, well that your right. It would make more sense to wait an see if they are right before you judge what they have said or done.

Bobby said to JDR: "You have no plan of your own. You have to steal what I say."

JDR says to Bobby: Obviously you've not read any of my postings over the past year.

JDR says to the N-R: This blog has a few technical shortcomings: the inability to do an effective search is one of them.

And to push back more - please don't be talking about ""can you guess where this country could be or how far along it could be if your side worked with the president, instead of constantly against him."

This president is the most divisive I personally have witnessesed, and I saw live on TV Mr. Oswald being shot dead.

"Is the fact that he is a republican or conservative so offensive to you ..."

It is the fact that he is NOT conservative the urks me.

"I thought that when we were at war or had a common enemy, that maybe then, we could all be American."

This president has done a very terrible job of knowing who is the Enemy.

"What I have a problem with is some of the ways it is done."

At the risk of again being labled "un-original" - that is the exact point: The way it is being done.

On 9-12, this president had the support of the entire world - even Teddy Kennedy (a small joke there, but not wholly untrue). In the past 4 years, he has alienated many, run us into horrific debt, sent (or at least not stopped sending) our manufacturing base overseas (along with lot's of technical work), increased both the size and the power of the federal government (both very-liberal ideas, btw), not captured Osama, and deliberately divided this country to "win" re-election.

I have explained elsewhere some better ways of doing what I and many other's are having a problem with. While I certainly don't have many if any answers, occassionally there are good ideas brought to the table.

I'll do it again but not today; I'm already late getting out the door.

Bobby, I had a great plan a couple of years ago. Don't attack Iraq. No one listened to me then; and if I had a great plan now to get us out of the Iraq mess, no one would listen to me. I, too, would like to hear politicians, Dem or Rep, come up with a plan. Stay the course is not a plan, just a phrase.

I don't hate Bush, but I hate most of the things he has done to America. I am not proud that we waged war in Iraq. I am not proud that we execute people. I am not proud of the thousands of abortions for birth control that are performed. I am not proud that religion is used to justify unChristian attitudes and actions.

I am proud of the way Americans come to the aid of victims of natural disasters. I am proud of the churches and organizations that feed and house the homeless.

I, too, think that the Bush (make that Karl Rove and Dick Cheney...James is kind and thinks that Bush is sincere, just naive, which may be true) plan was to divide us, and it has worked all to well.

Getting out of Iraq and paying off the horrible national debt is what I would like to hear from someone who can do something about it.

While I agree that the Dems don't have a plan, neither do the Reps, and they are in power.

I pray that God will bless America and forgive us of our many transgressions.

James, you are really an early bird. Proud of you.

We can complaint till the cows come home. But we are at war and need to finish it the right war. these people have to be defended. Their whole purpose in live is to kill anyone who does not believe as they do. Period. They won't surrender and they won't quit till they are the only ones left in charge. They don't care if you are a rep or a dem. They want you DEAD.

I personally want the president to use any and all means at he's command. If it make anyone unhappy, tuff. We are at war, where you like it or not, that want change.

Carol Dunn
I agree with what you said. Lots of people still have head stuck in the sand on what bush is doing to this Country. No way to bring back the lives lost in Iraq. His travels is helping to put the Country more in debt every day.

As far as Bush being the most divisive president you have ever seen, for you that might be. For me he isn't. In my life time, the first was Carter, a do nothing president that push this country to the edge of being the laughing stock of the world. I guess you forgotten the "misery index" we had back then, the long gas lines with even/odd number plates was when you could get gas and then only certain amounts. Lets not forget the prisoner in Iran. Boy was Carter great or what. The minute Reagan was sworn in they were release. Why, because they feared Reagan and not Carter. He was a joke then and he's still one.

Bobby, Carter is not President...he is history. Bush is President. Please re-read my post. Did not say "most divisive"

How do you propose we "win" this war? Bush doesn't seem to have a Plan. Do you? Do you really think it was a "noble" plan to invade Iraq? Why do you think Bush & Co. chose Iraq?

Let's talk about the world support we got on 9/12. Was this the same support that was involved in the "OIL FOR FOOD" program. Our same friends that under cut us everytime they could. The friends we really had before and during 911 an now are the same ones we still have.Bush couldn't lose what we never had.

The UN sanctions were a joke. The UN is a joke. Name me one time that the UN has stop mast muder by tyrants, or genocide by runaway countries. It happens in front of the peacekeepers and they do nothing. So don't tell me about them either. They just want out money. The are as un-american as the is. When 911 happened what did the UN doing? Nothing like normal.

I have never been ashamed of this country, some of the leaders and politicans you better believe it.

Will those on the left ever agree with the right, not a snow ball change in hell. Nor will be agree with those on the left. We'll keep on stating our way and you will do the same, and nowhere will the two met.

Bobby,
Whew! I don't know where you got your history lessons, but for your own sake, don't go there again!
If you have read any memoirs from those in the first REAGAN administration, you would have known that the hostages were released to further embarrass Carter. You can assign blame, as everyone does to this day, to the President who is in office, for all problems taken on their watch. But please use at least a fragment of real history before making historically inaccurate statements.

Your line:
"He was a joke then and still is one"

Camp David Accords? Did you hear of that? An Israeli leader visiting an Arab nation on the invitation of the country--Did you ever READ of that? An Arab leader visiting Israel---have you no sense of the monumental progress??

For God's sake, turn off Rush Limbaugh, and put in a book on tape or CD!

So let me get this straight, Carter brought peace to the middle east. I miss that. I know he had a photo op, I don't remember the peace that followed. What changed. Did both side quit fighting, I forgot when that happened.

It might have been an embarrassment for the Carter people but our prisoners were released. At no time was Iran afraid of Carter, that's the point. Reagan had already stated what he would do go get our people back. And Iran believe him.

cd I'm sorry but symbolism without results to me isn't worth much. To see Carter shaking hand with the other two men is not great unless it causes peace, which it didn't. Just broken promises that was never going to be honored. You had one side who wanted peace and the other didn't. It still doesn't. Because of the terrorist side of them and other middle east countries. Till that way of thinking is changed there will never be peace for that region.

Carol,

I commend you. Your words are always full of grace and kindness even if you are disagreeing with others. Your responses are an example of how all dialogue should go.

Ever thought of running for office?

Bobby,
All that's left for you to do is blame Clinton for the war not going your way or for everyone not seeing things the way you do. It has been said that "patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" and your drums are beating.