wow....76 prisons in N.C. .....well you know what they say " a cigarette is best after --x ".

" But if a law-abiding citizen smokes at Moses Cone Hospital, he becomes, well, a lawbreaker. "........
to some it appears that rules and regulations are fine as long as they don't infringe on you personally. if the lte writer has school children i am assuming he likes the rules/regulation/laws that prevents guns on school property as well as drugs....surely these rules protect the innocent....pretty much like the rules about smoking at moses cone. if you wanna lite one up why not go out to your car and roll the windows up and smoke until your lungs are content....it seems a win/win to me.

" No one is being potentially harmed but the smoker himself. "..........................
personally i believe this to be the most feeble excuse of all. also perhaps this person is not aware that second hand smoke affects others. these are several of my thoughts !!

buz,

he's talking about a separate smoking section that only smokers would want to enter. anybody who doesn't want second-hand smoke wouldn't get it.

what it is really about is being able to cut the job of the person responsible for cleaning up butts.

ydog,
i overlooked that point in the lte.....if the designated area is secure from the non smoking public - i say let 'em smoke !

The hospital grounds are controlled by the hospital, not by the smokers. They get to say whether or not they want people smoking on their property, so get a life!

spooge,
no one hates the smell of smoke more than i, but if the hospital provides an area where non smokers are subject to their smoke then where is the harm to the non smoker.
i dare say that if that same hospital told you that you could not pray for your loved one (while you are present at the hospital) then you might take exception to that....but remember you said it is their property and they get to make the calls. prayer harms no one just as smoke not breathed by non smoke harms no one - i say let'em pray and smoke.....and while praying, pray for the smokers !

Buz, my dad died at age 63 because he could not stop smoking. From the time I was 12, I knew my dad was going to die from smoking. Smoking hurts people who don't smoke. Just look at the family and friends present at a smoker's funeral. The lte writer should worry more about his relative at the hospital than whether or not he can take a drag on a cigarette. The priorities here are way off!

Why not put an "unventilated" smoking trailer with glass walls (similar to what's there now)where the smokers can see the ridiculousness of their addiction. Actually, that's about all they COULD see as the smoke would fill up the place.
Remember: Plenty of people quit smoking without going to a Betty Ford Clinic to do it, so there are no more excuses. If smokers are "victims", they are victims of their own choosing!

spooge,
really sorry about your dad, i lost my mom to lung cance at age 56 (she smoked all her life). there is not one thing you said that i don't agree with....i was only pointing out that if they are provided an area to smoke where others ( you & me ) wouldn't need to pass thru to get to our destination, then my rights are protected and so are theirs. there is not one good thing to be said for smoking (imo) and many detrimental things readily come to mind.

" Just look at the family and friends present at a smoker's funeral. ".......................
this is exactly what i meant in my first post here when i stated " No one is being potentially harmed but the smoker himself "............
personally i believe this to be the most feeble excuse of all. everyone left behind is hurt by the smokers death !
i feel so sorry for little chilren i see strapped in their car seats, while mom, dad or whoever puffs away with the windows rolled up, i think it is a form of child abuse - oh boy i think i am in rouble now....oh well that is what i think !

Buz... We just want to smoke where it is permited. If we die from it we also do not want it to be in a non-smokers space. We don't need excuses for what we do. We just want to quit being dumped on all the time. It is our bad habit and most will take the rap for their decision. So far as praying for the smoker, please do. Most of us will be glad you did pray for us. My dad died at 53 years of age from the big "E", I watched him leave this world. It was not plesant. Life goes on. I will die from something. And the last thing I was thinking of then was a cig... He was so proud of me when I quit for 3 years. But.... I started back!!!!
Glass walls are ok with me if you want to have it filmed, that's ok too. The film might show a crack from my age though.
Send us to treatment. I read in NR that they have a lot of empty beds for us.
I do not feel like a victim but you all can call me one if ya want.
The kids that have been noted above are losers for sure. I have the big "A" and it could be from a childhood of smoking parents. Who knows? All I know is that I smoke, it is my responsibility, and I will gladly do it where I am permitted. If I can go 4 hours on a flight to CA. I can go to the hospital to see someone without smoking. It's all the hatefullness about smoking that disturbs me most of all.
Respect my space and I will do my upmost to respect yours!

My biggest problem with all of this hub-a-baloo is that the emphasis is on smoking today. Will it be coffee, soda or sugar tomorrow?

Where does it stop?

I cannot understand why a totally segregated smoking hut would not suffice?

My mom is a heavy smoker. I would hate to think that if my dad was in the hospital for something serious, that she couldn't go out side for 5 minutes to smoke if it helped to calm her nerves and get them both through a rough situation.

I think Moses Cone is losing it's empathy. I guess that happens to all businesses eventually!

g.tony,
hello and happy year new to you and yours !!

Kat in the Hat,
imo you are an exception to many smokers....you are at least open to the possibility that smoking is a dangerous habit ( to you & other ) and you are willing to accept the consequences ( if any ) for your actions and you are willing to respect the rights of others if they reciprocate ! it is sad that you have returned to the habit after kicking it for those years, but at least you 'know' what it takes to successfully quit and with that knowledge in hand you may be able to do it again ( i hope for your sake you do ). addiction is addiction no matter what form it takes and it does NOT mean that the addict is a bad person it simply means a stronghold has taken charge in your life - my hope is that you may overcome that stronghold and recapture more health in your future !

Kat,
Thanks for respecting others.
I think what really gets to non-smokers is when we continually see cigarettes tossed from car windows etc. Rarely do you see someone toss a can or a bag out the window, but take a look at the gutter at a stop light and check out all the "butts" that have accumulated. Most smokers have less than acceptable manners---just look at the curb next time and you will see proof. There are literally hundreds at every intersection on Battleground Avenue. I'm sure the rain eventually carries them down storm drains, but not to worry, as a new crop soon emerges!

ALL THAT IS IN ADDITION TO THE HEALTH PROBLEMS CAUSED BY SECOND HAND SMOKE!

From a study in which 'The American Cancer Society participated:

A 40-year study of Californians, the largest study on secondhand smoke to date, has reached the conclusion that anti-tobacco extremists have been dreading: their claims about the health risks from secondhand smoke are bogus.

The study was published in the May 17 issue of the highly respected British Medical Journal. American medical rags didn't dare publish anything that doesn't support their all-out assault on smokers and the tobacco industry. Rest assured, the only data that will ever see the light of day in American health media will be the usual junk science that keeps the grant money flowing and the politics going their way.

The anti-tobacco extremists are howling that the study was funded by tobacco money. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, the American Cancer Society initiated the 40-year study and maintained the original database. The results are based on the ACS's own numbers. The ACS did follow-up until 1972, after which follow-up was conducted at UCLA with funding from anti-tobacco money gained through taxes on cigarettes. That means smokers kept the study going.

In 1997, when anti-tobacco nannies learned that the study would prove that their hysterical claims about secondhand smoke were unfounded, they yanked the funding. For only the last two years of the study, funding was provided by the Center for Indoor Air Research, which indeed received its funding mainly from tobacco companies but which also no longer exists. To call this a study funded by Big Tobacco is ludicrous to anyone with a modest amount of common sense.

This study is bad news for anti-tobacco groups who've based their demands for smoking bans entirely on the myth that secondhand smoke poses a health risk to non-smokers. The anti-tobacco crusade is upset because this study was conducted according to reputable scientific standards, a notion completely foreign to anti-tobacco groups. What's ironic is that the firestorm of controversy that they themselves are igniting might just prompt the media to finally look into the sordid history of junk science that the entire anti-tobacco crusade is based on.

I am not a smoker. I am for personal choice.

neocon,
i haven't looked at any data yet, but do you have links to peruse ?
do you have children ? if yes, would you be willing to place them in a total smoking environment from their birth until they are aged twenty.....never allowing them to breathe air other than smoke filled air ? if you answer yes, then i suspect you are a man of great principle, but if you answer no, i would ask why ?

Neocon, One study published in one journal doesn't exactly scream "proof positive". You can google second-hand smoke and find thousands of studies who would dispute the source you provided.

Use your own judgement, however. Nicotine was once used as a pesticide. How harmful are pesticides? Personally, I don't want it entering my lungs. That is why I try to avoid second hand smoke. But that is damn near impossible unless I stay at home and live off the government.

I do, however, agree with providing spaces that are enclosed and away from non-smokers for the smoking public. I even frequent restaurants that have separate rooms. Just separate spaces does not cut it as smoke does not know it's not suppose to enter a non-smoking space.

I agree with Buz that carrying a child or baby into smoking areas or closing them up in a car with smoking parents is a form of child abuse. And it is a proven fact that children of smoking parents are more likely to die from SIDS, develop asthma or some other restrictive airway problem. If a parent does not love their child more than they love smoking, they do not deserve to have them. All in my opinion.

Kat, You definitely are the exception to the rule. Most smokers I know could give a rats butt if smoking offends someone else. They just scream about their "rights". But if you come right down to the nitty-gritty, public smoking was always a privilege, not a right.

One of my sons smokes. Do I love him less? Heck no. I only detest his addiction. I pray for him to find the strength to kick the vile habit. I also pray for his son (my precious grandchild) because he is sick so much. My son does not smoke in the same room with him but the stench from my son's "smoking room" permeates the whole house. And, yes, I think it is wrong of my son to subject anyone to that, especially his own child.

A hospital (a health facility) allowing smoking on its premises is akin to a church (a religious facility) allowing a bordello on it's premises. Simply put, the activity is not in keeping with the primary purpose of the facility. There are plenty of places for smokers to smoke and bordello visitors to visit...not just at these places.

Ray, you pipt smoking son of a gun, bet you never thought you would create this kind of response. Hope you are well.

A hospital (a health facility) allowing smoking on its premises is akin to a church (a religious facility) allowing a bordello on it's premises. Simply put, the activity is not in keeping with the primary purpose of the facility. There are plenty of places for smokers to smoke and bordello visitors to visit...not just at these places.

Ray, you pipe smoking son of a gun, bet you never thought you would create this kind of response. Hope you are well.

"do you have childern? if yes would you be willing to place them in a total smoking environment from their birth until they are aged twenty.....never allowing them to breath air other than smoke filled air?"

Buz, yes i have 5 children (?) all grown now. And no, I wouldn't allow them to breath only smoke filled air. Neither would (did) I allow them to eat only ice cream and sugar filled snacks for their main diet. But there is a huge difference between "breathing only smoke filled air" and passing by someone who is smoking a cigarette.

What about exhaust fumes from automobiles? I wouldn't let my kids stick their nose up a tailpipe for any lenght of time either. Why not ban autos from public places? We all breath these fumes every day and I don't see dead bodies lying on every street in the city where these fumes are concentrated. Carbon monoxide is much more deadly than second hand smoke,yet where is the outcry against them? My guess is that the anti-smoke nannies are also auto owners too.

As I said, I am not a smoker. (I am a former smoker. When they hit $1.00 a pack I quit) But my belief is that these smoke nazis are not really after the banning of smoking in hospitals,ect. I think they are out to bankrupt "big tobacco". I think they are out to control as much behavior as possible,not just smoking,but what we eat,what we wear,and how we conduct our daily lives. Look at the seatbelt law. 30 years ago if someone had told you that it would be illegal to drive your own car to the corner filling station without a seatbelt,would you have believed them? And 30 years from now do you think it will still be legal to eat a piece of pie that has sugar in it? Maybe,maybe not.

Have a good day Sir/Mamm. You too,Yvonne.

Please excuse the typos, I have been up since 11:00 pm last night. lol

neocon,
i realize my question was rather ridiculous but if 2nd hand smoke does no harm to anyone then there should be no fear to subjecting themselves (or children) to it. i just can't understand how anyone who has looked honestly at the compounds that are legally placed in tobacco products can come away from that believing that smoking is not harmful. i am aware of some who argue that some of these compounds are legal in food (which is true) however the major difference is that these same compounds have never been tested when they burn. i believe there have been some 9000 compounds identified thus far on cig smoke (some believe that possibly 100,000 or more compounds exist in cig smoke).
you said you stopped smoking when cigs reached 1.00 per pack, i was curious to know if you stopped for economic reasons or were there other factors involved. would you resume smoking today if cigs dropped to .10 per pack ? and a good day also to you sir.........

cutawad,

i'd say you are exactly wrong on this one. (which is an exception cause usually you're exactly right)

a hospital SHOULD offer smoking sections because they are in the business of caring for sick and dying people. Allowing smoking would actually increase their business/profits, right?

Ever notice that CVS and Kerr Drug keep cigarettes right behind the counter for sale?

I do have to say that I think it is a pretty feeble argument to say that because your daddy or someone else you cared about died from cancer or emphesema, then you think that other people's rights should be taken away.

My grandaddy lived for 92 years (smoked daily for 78) and died from something totally unrelated. (True story) Does that mean I can argue that people should be able to smoke wherever?

Buz, I stopped smoking for economic and health reasons. I'm not arguing that smoking is good for one's health. My opinion is that 2nd hand smoke is not the death sentence that the nannies make it out to be. Would I smoke if they were $0.10 cents a pack? Probably not. However, if tomorrow I were told by a dr.that I had but a year to live, I probably would light up and enjoy a smoke.

Thanks neocon, you make my points much better than I can. I almost fell over laughing when I read that if you were going to die a year from now you would most likely consider lighting up!
I don't mind the non-smokers, and they do have some valid points. But when people say you stink and littering is out of hand I just tend to wonder if they have a personal resentment against smokers in general and are not really worried about health or second hand smoke.
I can remember when many churches allowed you to smoke in the building. And our church still has butt cans beside the doors to the side entrance. I have never had anyone in my church tell me I stunk; most respectful people keep that thought unspoken.
The last time my husband and I went to our little get-a-way to eat they had changed to 6 tables non-smoking and 3 tables smoking. Would you believe we could not get a seat. The non-smokers were sitting at the smoking tables.
Such is life.

Hiya Buz. Happy New Year to you too! I haven't been blogging as much lately. Either I haven't been as interested or the topics haven't yanked hard enough on my chain. LOL Good to see you are still here!

Buz,
I read this today and it made me think of you and your comments to me yesterday. Thanks for caring.
All human failures are the result of a lack of love.
--Alfred Adler
How much easier it is to continue working toward a challenging goal when we're bolstered by the loving support of a favorite person, a spouse, or parent. We'll not succeed at every job or game we attempt -- nor should we expect to. For all of us our talents are many, but not total. However, our failures will be fewer and far less devastating when they occur within the context of a life rich with loving human contact.
Those who don't know the comfort of love find their steps and thoughts are haunted by the fear that they don't count -- that there is no purpose to their lives. Only by knowing the reality of love can we glimpse the richly textured tapestry of human life, and only then can we feel secure that all is well.
One purpose for our lives is to assure others of their importance to the life pattern that captures us all. And when each of us is committed to that purpose, both the fear and the reality of human failure will be erased.
Worthy of Love by Karen Casey

Kat in the Hat,
that was awesome and thanks....may Gods grace rest upon you !

Demon,
On my way to work in W-S yesterday I noticed a prison crew picking up litter on the Hanes Mall exit. I wonder if they got all the butts put in those bags?
Yvonne,
"Smoking is a privilege, Not a right."
We have the privilege to Fart in public but most people are just embarrassed (unspoken) and do not complain about the smell.
Thanks for being so kind to an old smoker.

Don't give up hope for a return to tolerance and good manners. The antismoking movement is not invincible nor its smoking bans inevitable.
I am the leader of a group called KEEP ST. LOUIS FREE!, a group devoted to fighting silly intrusions into the private lives of St Louisans by both gorvernment and business. We defeated an attempted smoking ban in St. Louis last summer in part by presenting the sort of evidence
neocon posted earlier. A big ETS study done by the World Health Organization also found no link between lung cancer and secondhand smoke. In fact, the WHO study found that children exposed to secondhand smoke were 22 percent less likely to develop lung cancer later in life. Ironically, in its pursuit of a smoke-free America the antismoking movement has become a bigger liar than Big Tobacco ever was. The end once again justifies the means. To learn more about the real science of secondhand smoke and to see the real effects of smoking restrictions go to: www.nycclash.com