- one of my fav's: Goverment subsidized Hummers.

A business (which doesn't take much to become) that purchases anything weighing over 6000 pounds can take a deduction for a beast like this - for small company guys like me, the money comes off the top, i.e., if I earned $200,000, spend $100,000 on a decked out Hummer, and my tax liability drops to $100,000 - NO taxes on the amount spent to cruise in style - let the other American tax payers pick up the tab.

Now who's buying these beasts? Certianly not the folks formerly in the Ninth Ward of New Orleans.

It WAS $30,000: http://www.detnews.com/2002/autosinsider/0212/18/c01-38875

"At the same time the tax code sanctions $30,000 write-offs for SUVs, prospective purchasers of a fuel-efficient hybrid vehicles qualify for a relatively small $4,000 tax credit."

... but "In 2003, lawmakers expanded the tax deduction to a whopping $100,000 as part of the $350 million tax cut package"

http://www.selfemployedweb.com/suv-tax-loophole-2.htm

It was recently "rolled back" to $25,000 (the outcry of common sense sometimes win's over).

Welfare for the rich.

Nothing better than liberal Hummer envy. Class warfare card doesn't work, get a life.

"Nothing better than liberal Hummer envy. Class warfare card doesn't work, get a life."

Ya know, Dan, if you wanna drive a Hummer, I really don't care - but do not expect me to pay for it.

My attitude is not the "Class Warfare" card, it is a truely conservative stance - which I though you were, but sometimes in name only.

Sorry for the diss' (not really - but it sounds good) - but this is one of those times when you stupidly wave the American flag.

JDR I don't drive a Hummer, don't like the looks of them nor the price. I do drive a mid-sized SUV. It will pull the boat nicely and haul the kids around. I use it 90% of the time for my business and write off that portion from taxes, so I guess my Durango is tax susidized too. Thanks for helping me on that my friend.

Maybe you don't care if someone drives a Hummer, but there are many liberal wackos who do and they want to make it THEIR business as to what someone drives. Some of these wackos (ELF) go to the extreme in torching the darn things.

Now on the flip side you have some hybrid owners who buy the things to make a statement that they are more concerned about the environment and therefore better than the rest of us. Sure they use less gas, but you pay several thousands extra to buy a hybrid and are unlikely to recoup the premium cost with the savings in gas. (Maybe since Easley keeps raising the gas tax the recoup will take place faster).

Gotta go watch the rest of the Panters game.

I for one am against the tax benefits on those SUVs. Like JDR, I am not against someone owning one, I just do not want to aid in the payment for it (especially since I cannot even afford a new vehicle myself).

Regarding hybrids, has anyone heard about the State Legislator from Davidson County (Stan Bingham)? He has a 2006 VW Beetle that is operated by diesel and cooking oil! The Lexington Dispatch did an article on it last week. Check it out!

Shalom

No use trying to explain Dan. To the liberal mind a tax deduction (the state allowing someone to keep a slightly larger portion of what they earn) is the same as THEM making payments on someone else's hummer. Go figger. Apparently they cannot phantom the state doing without 1 cent less.

WAY TO GO PANTHERS!!!

neocon, it is apples & oranges. The statement is correct, some minds cannot comprehend common sense rationale. What a pity.

Shalom

Yes Darryl,and some minds cannot stand the fact that someone else can afford a hummer while others cannot,so they wallow in hatred of them. Pity.

Neo and Dan,
You miss the point entirely. Not really a surprise.

When it's for someone else, you say it's a "liberal government handout" but when it is for the rich, you change your tune. If you are going to continue to claim to be conservatives, please be consistent. Several have said on this blog, that conservatives do not believe in government welfare for the poor, so why is it you jump to the defense of those who are getting their purchase of a gas guzzler subsidized by the government? No help for the poor, but plenty of help for the wealthy. If you don't get that, there is little hope for you. You cannot have it both ways.

World traveler, "subsidized by the government". Do the people who buy these vehicles pay for them with a government check? Does the government come up with the down payment? Splain. Don't tell me about tax write-offs. That is not "subsidized by the government", that is not stealing as much of one's earnings as they normally would have. If you can't see this there is little hope for you.

Btw,cannot you liberals post anything without trying to insult those with whom you disagree? To Darryl everyone who dissagrees with him has a mind incapable of comprehension. To you those who dissagrees with you 'always misses the point,and that is no surprise to you and there is little hope for them'.

Many of us do not hate the people who can afford more than us. Many of us strive to emulate them. Others wallow in hate of them and expect the government to punish them. Pity.

Hey Neo, wouldn't you know? I get to write of 90% of my SUV costs since it is primarily a business vehicle but I have yet to receive a check from the IRS to cover the monthly payments, insurance, gas, property taxes, and repairs/maintenance. I'm still waiting for my check!! It's probably because I own a Durango, maybe if I buy a Hummer the check will come promptly in the mail, ya think?

Darryl, I can comprehend common sense rationale, just not your version of it.

Deacon, I have yet to receive a check from the IRS for my SUV expenses. The "someone else" you speak of, let's say a welfare recipient for example, DOES receive those pretty checks complete with United States of America and a nice illustration of the Statue of Liberty on them. In fact they receive alot of them each year!! With that they can buy food, housing, booze, child care, crack, electricity, the choices are endless!!

For me the opposite applies. I will write a $4000 check to the IRS for my quarterly payment next week and darnit I just never seem to get any back. Go handwrite $16,000 in checks to the IRS each year (plus Gov. Easley's cut, another $3500), take two aspirins and call me in the morning.

Dan,
Now that you have the measuring tape out, let me just tell you that I pay much more to Uncle Sam than you do, and yet I feel my taxes are part of my patriotic duty. I do not dislike those who choose to buy or build large homes because they are helping to build schools, sidewalks, jails, police stations, street lights, and on, and on. You seem to have the idea that only YOU are paying taxes and you hate anyone else benefiting from your labors. You would argue against an earned income tax credit but for a Hummer tax break? Where exactly do you stand????

Ok neocon & Dan, answer JDR's supposition in the original and first post here regarding how a business owner can get a larger tax deduction/write-off for a gas-guzzling SUV than for a smaller gasoline/(whatever fuel source) hybrid?

Answer that for me please.

And yes, when someone with whom I disagree fails to see my point, they often fail to comprehend what I am seeking to communicate (for whatever reasons). Is that bad neocon?

I concur with Deacon, either be consistent in the conservatism or stop calling one's self same. Do the honorable thing for those who may be conservative.

And for the record, from my keyboard...yes, I am liberal; just like the God I serve!

Shalom

Congrats Deac, how much do you handwrite in checks each quarter to the IRS? Or is it conveniently deducted from your paycheck each pay period so you don't even think about it? Do you get to pay the other 7% in FICA that employers supposedly match or do you get to pay that yourself like I do? Do you ever run short on saving for the quarterly check to the point where you have to use your home equity line to pay the IRS???

Since you don't dislike those who buy big expensive homes (which use up a lot of energy by the way) and get an even larger mortgage interest deduction (money TAKEN from the govt. in liberal eyes), then why do you dislike the very same people who buy certain vehicles and get a tax deduction from the vehicle? After all these Hummer drivers pay more in sales taxes at purchase, property taxes annually, and whoa, quite a bit in gas taxes to feed those thirsty engines. That should be a good thing, in your words they should be considered patriotic because they pay more in taxes!! Little double standard there my friend.

I don't mind paying my fair share, but when you add up Fed & state income, property, sales, gas, & any other tax the govt. dreams up, it gets to be too much for poor guys like me who want to save a bit for retirement & my kids college. Maybe not for eeeevil rich guys like you since you seem to be a big patriot by getting your money confiscated.

And yes I do agree, I hate when illegals, welfare pimps, and pork projects benefit from my labors. I don't mind paying for roads, schools, and the military.

Why don't you be a bit more patriotic and help some of us po folks pay our taxes?

Darryl, did God call you up and tell you he is a liberal? So much for common sense rationale.

"Do the people who buy these vehicles pay for them with a government check?"

Literally NO, Effectively YES. When, at the end of the year, one writes out a $20,000 check (20% of $100,000) instead of a $40,000 check (20% of $200,000), then effectively Uncle Sam has written a $20,000 check. Similarly, deducting either $44 / 1000 miles OR a %'age of annual auto expenses (whichever you decide to do), is effectively Uncle Sam writting you another check.

Tax write-offs ARE the government's way of encouraging vertain behaviour. Call it an incentive. Call it a subsidizes. A rose by any other name would still smell as sweet.

I'll say it again - Taxes are not inherently "stealing" from you ... what matters is HOW that money is spent.

We're back to the same circles.

"How much do you handwrite in checks each quarter to the IRS"

- None - I pay annually (joke there), and Do WISH it were only $12,000. We pay over 30% of gross for state and local taxes - that's with a good accountant and not counting 7% at the grocery store, 25% at the gas pump, etc.

Do I like it? Hell no - but only because I know that much of that is being wasted by subsidizing others that don't deserve it - like the cronicly lazy as well as the slimey corporations and their croney politicians. Both Ted Kennedy and Tom Delay get great write-off's and they are both asses - Ted doesn't understand working for a living and Tom is a very dangerous man.

"Do you get to pay the other 7% in FICA that employers supposedly match or do you get to pay that yourself like I do?"

- This is a great example of HOW the money is spent. If, for the past 80 years the excess had been invested (instead of used to beef general funds), there would be a continued lowering of this percentage instead of the mess we're in now. Don't bitch about the money, write your congressman and demand they stop foolishly spending OUR money.

Patriotic, imho, is not foolishly giving money for government to waste. It is returning a portion of what America has given you to assure there is a future America to give to your children.

"When at the end of the year one writes out a $20,000 check (20%0f $100,000)insted of a $40,000 check (20% of $200,000)then effectively,uncle sam has written a $20,000 check."

Ahhhhh...the liberal mind at work. If someone sends in only 20G insted of 40G the government has written them a check for 20G!!!

"Do the people who buy these vehicles pay for them with a government check?"

"Literally NO,Effectively [imo because I have little use for the people who can afford them] YES."

I concur with Dan's assessment: liberal hummer envy.

I guess my fellow libs are angry at me for driving a car that gets 13-15 miles per gallon.

But damn, that Mustang hauls butt and what a joy to drive!

Dan, I'll agree with you that those that complain about those that drive gas guzzling suv's and the like are wacko!

Mr. Rockefellar,
Thank you for "splain'n" it to old Neocon. He thinks the government has to actually send him a piece of paper for it to be government 'handout'.

The Hummer tax break seems to be at cross purposes with the conservative philosophy. They could have lowered Neocon's, Dan's, and Brian's income taxes, but instead gave a break to those who can afford to buy and operate Hummers. Wow! Seems to me that doesn't follow their working class hero line of thinking. If they attack those receiving welfare and free school lunches---those folks robbing from THEM, surely they would be upset to learn that folks in the brackets above them get a tax break to buy their favorite playtoy. Talk about myopia!

Let's see if I've got this now... If the government doesn't steal 20G from me they have, in effect,written me a check for 20G?

So if I break into a bank vault,planning to steal 50G and after I get in there I only carry out 25G, I have in effect given the bank 25G,right?.... Now I get it!!!

My personal belief is that the entire tax code needs to be scraped and start anew with either a flat tax or national sales tax with the provision written in that it will never be turned into a system that the politicans can tweek and twist into the vote buying scam that the current system has become.

Dan, other than acknowledging the comment, "....did God call you up..." I refuse to state anything further. If the pure definition of liberal is examined and understood, my POV on this would be CRYSTAL clear.

Ooops, I forgot; Paul wrote that we see through a glass dimly now, THEN we will see through a glass clear. I want to be next to you on that day Dan!

Shalom

Nice bank analogy Neo, Deac just doesn't get it. He has no problem with wealthier people writing off the mortgage interest on a $750K house, but he does with the write off on a Hummer or other similar vehicle.

I believe such a vehicle has to be used at least 50% for business purposes, so it's not like you just buy one and get the deduction. I have to document all the business travel of my Durango vs personal travel. I also belive commuting to and from the office is not considered business travel.

He still doesn't seem to understand the concept that I PAY money to the govt. and welfare recipients RECEIVE money from the govt. By the way Deac, the feds did lower my taxes. Problem is the state is daily figuring out ways to take that money away with their own new taxes.

It appears that the LTE writer is assumed to be a liberal Democrat and should be shot. Perhaps he is a conservative Republican. I would like a description of what a "conservative" believes in 2006.

Must say that the comments on this one have been nastier than usual.

Dan, the amount which welfare recipients receive is nothing compared to what Haliburton receives. Why does that not bother you?

What does Halliburton have to do with hummers and what welfare folks receive. Remember the previous administration did business with Haliburton in the same manner, no bid, because they could get the job done, had the equipment already in place and could do it more efficiently. It ain't nothing new Carol.

"Yes Darryl,and some minds cannot stand the fact that someone else can afford a hummer while others cannot,so they wallow in hatred of them. Pity."

There are many many working people out there that can't afford medicine for thier kids and then there are the wealthiest people in our nation driving around in a Hummer. Do I have a problem with that? Yes!

Maybe we don't need to tax the wealthy at the same rate as the middle class. I for one don't mind paying my fair share so that others can live a fairly decent life. And, interestingly enough, the poorer people in North Carolina live in the red counties. Red or blue....everyone deserves housing, medical care and a fair wage.

And, let me point out again, that most of the "government handouts" are given to people who DO have a job...the working poor...a class that is growing daily. Now that's the real pity!

Progressivexian,

Great points.

While Neo is still "ciphering" on the Hummer tax break, the ranks of the working poor are growing. What is truly amazing is when you see some poor working stiff, driving a car with a bumper held on with duct tape, and a "Bush/Cheney" sticker on it! Do they even realize that this administration has no interest in their socio economic station? Maybe they agree with the NRA endorsement, or the 700 Club endorsement, or the Right to Life endorsement, but at some point they need to vote for their own economic interest! Some have been hoodwinked by the argument of patriotism, or being on the side of GOD, or something, because they have sold out their own interest for the interest of the top 2% of the country! Of course, this is America, and as a good friend always says, "it is not against the law to be stupid".

May I suggest to the writer that he immediately go through his belongings and in post haste fashion donate anything that is not made in the US of A to a pool that can be restructured and used by our troops. I beleive that this would be a fair sacrifice for one so bent on others making a sacrifice on his behalf. In this fashion the writer would be taking part in the sacrifice of the few for the good of the greater. If he is unwilling to do this I am sure that cash donations would be acceptable plus they would be tax deductable, would you not think.

As an added note,I forwarded this link to our son, who lives in California and he thought this was the most hilarious post that he had ever read.He wanted to know if this was actually for real or just made up.
He is on his 2nd Hummer. He did however step down from a Hummer 1 to a Hummer 2 in order to be patriotic, naw, not really , just to save on gas actually.

World traveler, do you mean mean these working poor?:

The following are facts about persons defined as "poor" by the Census Bureau, taken from various government reports:

Forty-six percent of all poor households actually own their own homes. The average home owned by persons classified as poor by the Census Bureau is a three-bedroom house with one-and-a-half baths, a garage, and a porch or patio.
Seventy-six percent of poor households have air conditioning. By contrast, 30 years ago, only 36 percent of the entire U.S. population enjoyed air conditioning.
Only 6 percent of poor households are overcrowded. More than two-thirds have more than two rooms per person.
The average poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)
Nearly three-quarters of poor households own a car; 30 percent own two or more cars.
Ninety-seven percent of poor households have a color television; over half own two or more color televisions.
Seventy-eight percent have a VCR or DVD player; 62 percent have cable or satellite TV reception.
Seventy-three percent own microwave ovens, more than half have a stereo, and a third have an automatic dishwasher

Deacon: "Maybe they agree with the NRA endorsement, or the 700 Club endorsement, or the Right to Life endorsement, but at some point they need to vote for their own economic interest!"

Maybe some of these people have pride in working, earning their OWN money and working up the ladder rather than sitting around watching Oprah and waiting for the mailman to deliver their welfare check Deacon. Ever think of that remote possibility? Perpetual reliance on the govt. is never in anyones economic interest.

I know people of your mindset think govt. handouts are the solution to all problems with poverty and frequently play the class warfare card. "The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer" is the lead class warfare phrase. Half the country is standing in soup lines, oh my!!

People of your mindset think others are too stupid to "vote correctly" and it just amazes you Deacon that the class warfare card doesn't resound with many lower income folks. They are smarter than you think and realize the Democratic party uses the smokescreen of being for the little guy while raising taxes on his gas, sales tax, , property taxes, assorted fees (example: license fees went from $20 to $28 last year)and his smokes if he is a smoker. These increases are of little consequence to me or you, but they are to the single mom trying to raise her kids.

Look at Neocons stats. Since you are such a world traveler perhaps you saw the same people I saw on the Amazon delta living in straw huts and using wooden canoes for transportation.

Carol, maybe Halliburton buys alot of Hummers, good for the economy!!

"Dan, the amount which welfare recipients receive is nothing compared to what Haliburton receives. Why does that not bother you?"

Haliburton provides jobs, can you tell me how many jobs welfare recipients provide?

"I for one don't mind paying my fair share so that others can live a fairly decent life."

Nothing is stopping you from sending in all the money your heart desires to the government. Have you put your money where your mouth is? Do you send in extra money to the government? If not why then do you feel you need to take it from other people?

"And, let me point out again, that most of the "government handouts" are given to people who DO have a job"

Do you have any personal experince on which you draw this conclusion. Because I do. Here is the facts a single mom with 2 kids cannot make over $6000 to receive medical help from the government. I am the working poor and qualify for NOTHING. I was told that if I quit my job I would qualify.So tell me how these people with jobs are receiving "government handouts".

Trish,
Dan will never admit to corporate welfare, as he has been taught to believe he got to his station in life all by himself. The line of reasoning behind his thoughts would lead one to believe he opposes all VA benefits, all social security, all FHA and VA housing, bonds issued to build stadiums, and arenas for wealthy team owners and on and on...
Only problem is, his parents or grandparents probably bought their first home due to government sponsored enterprises that made money available to them--FHA, VA or the like. He probably attended tax payer funded public schools, goes to a public hospital when in need of medical care, but still sees himself as a self made man! His deep seeded resentment of the poor could likely result from being one generation removed from abject poverty. Whatever the case, he is hard core and repeats the mantra in most threads. Most people do not even realize the benefits they receive from government that they feel entitled to. An NASD survey was done on retired persons making over $100,000 a year and they absolutely wanted 100% of the social security benefits they were entitled to! They felt they had paid in the system and they wanted what was rightfully theirs! The real joke is that after two years, even those who had worked for 40 plus years, had gotten back all they put in themselves!

"His parents or grandparents PROBABLY bought their first home due to government sponsored enterprises that made money available to them"...

"He STILL sees himself as a self made man"...

Well there you go Dan, you are a ward of the state and never even knew it!! How does that feel??? lol

You liberals cannot imagine someone doing something on their own and being successful without the almighty state having a hand in it huh?

World traveler, using convoluted arguments like this only shows that you have no argument. You have run out of ammo. (not that you had much to begin with)

"his deep seeded resentment of the poor"
One could say here that the "deep seeded resentment the liberals have of the successful"...

Carol Dunn, I'm waiting to see an answer to Trish's question/statment about how many jobs welfare recipients create as compared to halliburton.

Deacon, who the hell are you to start guessing what my parents and grandparents did? Talk about grasping for straws. Pretty lame.

I did attend public schools, the very ones my parents PAID taxes for and still do to this day. I haven't been to a hospital, but I PAY $580/month for health insurance. I PAY the copays when I go see a doctor. No govt handouts there Deac, nice try.

Your comment about my resentment for the poor, do you know me personally? Did you know I volunteered with Big Brothers/Big Sisters for 9 years to be a male role model for a poor black child? Do you know I give money to charities that help the poor? Do you know I work in church programs that help the poor? Nice try again.

My resentment Deac is for liberals who rely on the poor as a voting base with incessant govt. handouts. My resentment is for ivory tower elitists like you who think lower income people are too stupid to vote correctly (see last sentence of your 1/9 2:27 post). The same elitists think lower income people are too stupid to take care of themselves and only the govt. can do it for them.

My resentment is for people like Mike Sleasley who raise taxes on the very people who are hurt the most by it.

By the way Deac, I noticed your method of addressing Trish's question was to lay on me. Meanwhile you never answered her question!! Would you care to now?

I'm leaving now to go make some money.

Trish and Neocon, while Haliburton provides jobs, they are jobs which are highly over paid and the company over charges the government. There is much info on the net. Look into it. If you really don't mind the company soaking the taxpayer, that is your choice. Again, I would rather my tax dollars go to welfare.

Trish, I understand your problems. Some people who really need help are just not poor enough. It is easy to see why a single mom would chose to stay at home with her kids, it pays better. We tried to get help for my mom so she could stay at home. With her social security check and a small, very small, rental income, she did not qualify for help to stay at home, but was told if she went into a nursing home it would be paid for. So, instead of allocating a very small sum to help, they were willing to spend a great deal. Red tape totally, not common sense.

Are you still in school? Hope it is going well.

Trish wrote: "Do you have any personal experince on which you draw this conclusion. Because I do. Here is the facts a single mom with 2 kids cannot make over $6000 to receive medical help from the government. I am the working poor and qualify for NOTHING. I was told that if I quit my job I would qualify.So tell me how these people with jobs are receiving "government handouts"."

Actually Trish, as I have mentioned before, I did grow up in a poverty ridden area of Appalachia. So, yep, I think I have experienced what I write about. Now, back home, most of the factories have closed and the biggest employer is WalMart.

I certainly understand why you would be angry in your situation. And, your situation is exactly what I am talking about. You shouldn't have to go through what you are going through. The system needs a vast makeover, not patches here and there. You are to be admired for doing what your are doing as a single mom. It's tough, but you sound like you are doing all you can to make it.

Again, I wish the best for you. And, by the way, I do give to organizations which help the poor, especially the poor in rural Appalachia. My heart goes out to those folks as those are "my folks". You have to agree, however, without taxes, few people would be inclined to give to the poor. Sadly, that's just human nature. Most would rather use their money to build big new mega-churches or to put their minister in a bigger and newer home than actually help a brother or sister to make it.

I wish I knew who you were cause I would certainly be open to helping you out. Peace!

Trish...one more thing. Are you saying that you receive NO government assistance for medical issues, school, etc.? None? If so, that's is a real shame.

Trish,
You are a perfect example of what the far right has done to our country. A country is known for how it treats its most vulnerable, and frankly, after the Katrina fiasco, we should be ashamed. Oh, of course there are those that lump every one who suffered, in with a few thugs who give everyone a bad rap. They like to believe in a "Welfare Queen" somewhere, using all of THEIR money to live the life of royalty.

That is why there is no safety net for the working poor! Because they now control congress and the White House.

To be fair, Clinton's welfare to work initiative went too far, too fast, and left many holes in the safety net that have been expanded, and exploited by the far right. (you see, I, at least try to be balanced)

Dan, you miss the point entirely. Depending upon your age, you may or may not know it, but an overwhelming majority of those returning from WWII received government benefits to jump start the economy. Many of those benefits have been institutionalized because they are necessary and useful today. You probably had a grand parent or great grand parent who was able to go to college on the GI Bill or buy a house with a VA loan. Are your parents on medicare or do they refuse to be, and instead buy their own (not supplement!) health insurance? You see, no matter how much you rail against the great behometh called government, you are somewhere a beneficiary of a program you disparage here. Problems? Oh sure, there will always be problems, but don't be so myopic as to throw the baby out witht he bathwater.
Dan, somewhere along the way, your family was given a leg up. Go home, ask your mom and dad to tell you about your grandparents and how things were prior to the great depression. There were two classes of people then, workers and owners. The tax laws supported the owners to a point that we were creating a priviledged class. The 1912 income tax and later, the changes made under Roosevelt, helped level the playing field, allowing you and me to prosper today. Let's not pretend none of this happened while ranting and raving about government handouts! Known as "The Greatest Generation" this group inacted laws and passed programs that benefit you and me today. That generation saw many changes in society and they helped build this great country we call the U.S. of A! Don't for a minute, think you got to your station in life without the benefit of a government program, either for you or for your family!
That is, unless you are a trust fund baby who really doesn't understand how mom and dad got their wealth.
Rather than getting angry, step back a minute and concede the point that your family was and is the beneficiary of a government program.

Federal Farm Credit Act? Were they able to borrow money on raw land from the Federal Land Bank to keep the farm during hard times or add to their farm?
If they farmed, were they beneficiaries of the crop support system?
Check the family tree before you begin to say you did and continue to do it all by yourself.

Trish,

I called DSS this morning and spoke to someone about what a single mom with 2 kids is eligible for. You MAY not be able to get any cash if you are making $6000. However, you are eligible for food stamps and medicaide. That might help you out a little bit.

You might want to check into this. Good luck!

Actually Demon, Clinton's "workfare" program didn't go far enough. It seems that we had some congressfolks who were coming up for re-election around the time that the remainder of his program should have been put into place.( Parts of the original had been deleted or put on hold)They decided that they (both sides of the aisle) would not support the remainder of the program therefore leaving it underfunded and incomplete. You can read the original bill on line and then see what was left out of the original. I can say that this is one program that President Clinton backed that I supported 100%. It is a shame that the entire program could not have been put into place.
Hmm. Sounds like some of the programs that this President has tried to institute that have been left underfunded because of the political rangling over the last 5 or so years, ya think?

Only problem I see with many of the programs of today is that they seem to be designed to keep people dependent upon the government. Public Housing is a perfect example. Originally designed(1948) to give folks a start up and then out it has become a welfare haven for generation after generation. This I have researched and actually wrote an extensive paper on the subject in grad school.

Let me try to remember...this letter was about Hummer owners. Again, we have moved to another level. Much more interesting to me.

I would never say that welfare has not been abused. As a teacher, I saw some. For example, one of my students on free lunch missed his exams because he and his mom were going on a cruise. As was said, don't throw the baby out with the bath water. I oppose the death penalty for many reasons; one being that if just 1 innocent person is executed it is a crime. Just because some abuse welfare, the majority probably don't.

My family has certainly benefited from "welfare" My mom spent the last 3 years of her long life in a nursing home on Medicaide. She received a Social Security check for 25 years. My husband recieves a Social Security check, and I will when I am old enough, and we will both be on Medicare some day. As DemonDecon pointed out, who hasn't been or won't some day be on "welfare"?

Back to Hummers. I think they are really ugly and look like they would be hard to drive. Don't understand why anyone would want one. Guess they would stand up well to a deer. Since the price of gas has gone up, we have parked our Expedition in the barn and drive our less-gas guzzlers and are thankful we don't have to drive to work every day.

“Trish,
Dan will never admit to corporate welfare, as he has been taught to believe he got to his station in life all by himself.”

Demon I have no idea why you decided to address your comments about Dan to me, what does Dan have to do with anything I wrote? However I will say this, Dan did get to his station in life all by himself, he had options and choices just like everyone else. For instance, if Dan decided to use drugs and become a homeless druggie, wouldn’t you say he did that by himself? Where is personal responsibility come into play with you Demon?

Secondly, too many immigrants come to this country with nothing more then the clothes on their backs and they make a very good living. Opportunity is available to everyone. Working hard being the key. If you don’t wish to work hard then don’t gripe about what you don’t have and don’t expect to get it from somebody who does work hard.

"Trish,
I called DSS this morning and spoke to someone about what a single mom with 2 kids is eligible for. You MAY not be able to get any cash if you are making $6000. However, you are eligible for food stamps and Medicaid. That might help you out a little bit."

Vixen, do you have a name of a person you talked to? I have the name of my case worker if you would like to call and inform her that her information was wrong. Of course she does with at the DHHS not the DSS so she might not be aware that DSS has taken over the Mediaide program.

I know for a FACT that I am not eligible for Medicaid. More to the point I know for a FACT that you cannot just call DSS and someone is actually going to pickup the phone nor will they go over this with you on the phone. But thanks for the laugh anyways.

As far as food stamps and cash (whatever that is), first off most people qualify for food stamps, again has nothing to do with the “safety-net” most leftist try to make it sound like it is. Personally I make do with what I have. I do not like government hand outs, however for my kids I was more then willing to go through the hoops for the Medicaid to cover them until their deadbeat dad covered them. Hence the reason that I have personal experience that you obliviously do not.

"personally,I make do with what I have. I don't like government handouts"....

STANDING AND APPLAUDING!!

This is alien language to the liberals. They simply CANNOT comprehend such an attitude!!! This is like the sun coming up on Dracula to them!!!

I must tell you Trish,fwiw, this is the response I was expecting. I have been keeping an eye out for this post all day. T Y!!

You see world traveler and vixen,you guys look through your liberal lenses and see a helpless population,unable to care for themselves. I see here in Trish someone with pride and guts that is very capable and I would think it safe to say will go far in life.

The respect for other people is so overwhelming in this blog that I can hardly bear it!

Shalom

If some only knew of how some have to survive/exist.

What a shame.

Shalom

Darryl can back me up on my ability to call and talk to someone at DSS who knows what they're talking about. It's who ya know, Trish, it's who you know :-). And if you think for one minute I'd tell anyone here with whom I spoke, you might want to think again.

Hey, I was just trying to help you out. But by all means, continue complaining about how you can't get help from the government making $6000, single mom, two kids, etc. etc. etc. You might not like handouts but you sure do like to play the martyr.

“Actually Trish, as I have mentioned before, I did grow up in a poverty ridden area of Appalachia. So, yep, I think I have experienced what I write about.”

Sorry Vixen, I was at work and scrolled passed this posting. I also have to say that you were right about one thing that I got wrong. Now that I am home and checked my paperwork I do see where my caseworker is listed under the DSS, even though some paperwork also has DHHS. Sorry about that also.

“Now, back home, most of the factories have closed and the biggest employer is WalMart.”

Sorry about what is going on back home for your family and friends. However just because someone is working at Wal Mart does not mean that then cannot make it. My brother is the perfect example. He actually went to college earned his degree, started his own company when a friend asked if he would help out and delivery pizzas one night. My brother found that he made more money delivering pizzas then his business so sold out to his partner and has been doing that ever since. (By the way the money he started the business with was what he saved working since he was 14 yrs old). He now owns his own home. The key is work, he works 7 days a week, rarely if ever takes a vacation (only once that I know of and that was more personal reasons then pleasure). He doesn’t buy anything with credit, cash only. If he wants a new sofa, he saves the money to buy it. Regardless it can be done, it just takes hard work like I said.

“I certainly understand why you would be angry in your situation.”

Actually I’m not angry and I’m not sure where you got that impression. The point of my story is to show how incorrect you are in saying that the majority receiving government handouts are actually hard working. When in fact to get handouts the opposite has to happen. The thing about welfare is time as proven it doesn’t work. Why is it I’m doing so good? Because I have a great family. Welfare is one thing that tore the family unit down and in doing so we now see how that doesn’t work. Also welfare takes away a person’s will to work (or even attempt to make a better life). We have generations after generation living on welfare. It is a program that has been proven ineffective.

“You have to agree, however, without taxes, few people would be inclined to give to the poor. Sadly, that's just human nature.”

Where do you get these ideas? Have you ever volunteered, joined a church? Example, I was a bell ringer this Christmas and I can say that I saw people with very little giving money saying that had a good year. My church always adopts several families as well as has a food pantry for anyone in need, not to mention volunteers for Meals on Wheels, the soup kitchen as well as the Homeless Shelter. Maybe the problem lies in the government takes so much that people aren’t able to give. But I do know that yes some people will not give that is human nature but I do know that you are wrong to say that few are inclined to give. Heck just look at the giving for Katrina and the Tsunami. Also what the heck did people do before Johnson’s Great Society project when there wasn’t any welfare?

"Trish and Neocon, while Haliburton provides jobs, they are jobs which are highly over paid and the company over charges the government."

Here is where you are wrong Halliburton employees over 100,000 people (in five countries according to their website) are you saying at every one of them are highly over paid. Have you ever talked with an employee? I have a couple of friends who work for them. One actually died in Iraq (an accident not because of violence). I have to say that the majority are not highly over paid. However I will give you the fact that they overcharge the government, but what company doesn’t? That’s a laugh anyone who gets a government contract over charges. Doctors, hospitals, road crews (Ha one time I heard those men who hold the stop sign at construction stops makes anywhere from $15 to $20 an hour). Even you welfare recipients cheat the government. I worked in a grocery store and I saw it everyday.

"Trish, I understand your problems."

Here I agree with you, this is why giving the government your money doesn’t pay. Private companies do such a much better job then the government ever can. My mother went through Hospice and got the best of at home care.

"Are you still in school? Hope it is going well.
Yes, that’s so much for the good wishes. The semester just started and already they are piling on the work!"

"And if you think for one minute I'd tell anyone here with whom I spoke, you might want to think again."

Actually what I said is this: “I have the name of my case worker if you would like to call and inform her that her information was wrong.” So I have no qualms about posting my person’s name: Alison Lusk. Please give her a call for me and inform her that you know the law and legibility requirements better then she does. Maybe for some reason my denial letter was in error. That little boxed that was checked (not enough medical bills to cover deductible/too much income) might have been wrong.

"Hey, I was just trying to help you out. But by all means, continue complaining about how you can't get help from the government making $6000, single mom, two kids, etc. etc. etc. You might not like handouts but you sure do like to play the martyr."

Complaining and martyr? So dramatic. Let’s review what I wrote: “Do you have any personal experience on which you draw this conclusion. Because I do. Here is the facts a single mom with 2 kids cannot make over $6000 to receive medical help from the government. I am the working poor and qualify for NOTHING. I was told that if I quit my job I would qualify. So tell me how these people with jobs are receiving "government handouts". So my relaying a story to prove your theory wrong is complaining and being a marytr huh? Whatever vixen. Just seems kind of weird that someone would take the time to call and find out, even weirder to get through on the phone and then told something that obviously wasn’t correct and then when asked for said name refuse to give it. Why bother calling? How did you help me out by calling if I can’t even have the name of the person so I can talk to them?

Oh and one last thought. You know vixen, you posted this as I was typing my last response to you. If I would have seen this response, I would have bothered with the other. Why is that every time I feel that you are not the sarcastic (insert noun here) you come across as, well you prove me wrong.

"Where do you get these ideas? Have you ever volunteered, joined a church?"

Yep on both counts. And I go to a church where we don't pay a pastor nor own a huge building. We're able to give a large percentage of what we take in to Urban Ministries and other worthy groups.

"Oh and one last thought. You know vixen, you posted this as I was typing my last response to you. If I would have seen this response, I would have bothered with the other. Why is that every time I feel that you are not the sarcastic (insert noun here) you come across as, well you prove me wrong."

Okay, let's back up. I was responding in kind to you. Then you responded in kind to me. Both of us would have written something entirely different in tone if we had first read the other's post. So...let's just end this now. I do apologize for my tone. And I really was trying to help you out. I thought the same thing you did about how I would get the information to you...and I didn't have an answer. I actually thought if your case worker were giving you incorrect information, you might could have contacted someone else at DSS and gotten a correct answer. And believe me, case workers get things wrong all the time.

Again, apologies. And I do have a feel for you and applaud what you are doing.

I wrote: "Again, apologies. And I do have a feel for you and applaud what you are doing."

Good lands, that should read, "I do feel for you." Now I am really embarassed...oh my!

"I must tell you Trish,fwiw, this is the response I was expecting. I have been keeping an eye out for this post all day. T Y!!"

Thank ya neocon. Yep hate the handouts. I could go get foodstamps but quite frankly other then hating handouts, I hate lines and government paperwork!

But as I have said too many immigrants have come to this country and suceeded with no help from the government. It can be done. Lefties have a problem with this concept. That everyone has the same opportunities to suceed. You just have to work hard. Instead of excuses, work, save and go without somethings.

trishs wingnut friends wouldnt want her to have anything anyway.theyd be concerned that they were advocating for single parent families.couldnt have that could we.

Deac, contrary to your thoughts, I do believe govt. can help people out. VA loans are just that; loans. Ditto with college loans although I remember someone posted data a few weeks ago about the massive amount of $$ in college loans that are not repaid. I also believe govt. should help those who are truly infirm and cannot produce income for themselves.

I think the "Greatest Generation" had the idea that govt. can help one get a leg up with GI loans, etc. but it was only a temporary stepping stool and then it was the individual's responsibility to take over from there. I have no problem with that.

What I have a problem with the the attitude Trish describes about welfare and endless govt. handouts. I totally removes any incentive to improve one's lot in life and costs a hell of a lot of money. Endless govt. support simply doesn't work contrary to liberal intentions of compassion. I don't think the greatest generation would even have envisioned this.

My parents do receive Medicare & SS, but they paid in to that over their working lives so they deserve it.

Trish's story is so foreign you guys as you automatically think the govt. should take care of everyone. It sounds like Trish had a rough time in life with a bad marriage and is taking the responsibility to care for her kids and get an education so she will make more money down the road. I applaud you greatly Trish. I would venture to say Trish that your kids will learn valuable lessons about personal responsibility and will grow up to be successful adults.

I was fortunate that my parents saved money to pay for my college. Anything beyond that was my responsibility so I got a job flipping burgers at McDonalds and saved for my first car. After college they told me I was then on my own, so I got a job and rented an apartment.

When I started my own business, I saved money to cover the initial losses. My first check was for $14. I worked 60 hour weeks and still do sometimes. Trish nailed it, if you get an education and work hard you will succeed in this country.

Only problem is if you get too wealthy liberals think of you as eeeeviiiilll rich people and it's not fair to be rich. Go figure.

Carol I agree with you, Hummers are pretty ugly & I wouldn't buy one either. I was surprised that you own an Expedition. You do realize that is a large SUV which makes you, a liberal, a target of scorn from other liberals, especially the environmental wackos.

I can relate to and comprehend the "hard ward" ethic. My heritage has taught me that.

I have another twist to throw into this arena. I have a friend with a chronic illness. The employer offers no medical benefits, there are no dependents. The income borders on the poverty level. Because the person is on the proverbial "border," the avenues of assistance to this friend are very few and limited. What should this friend do?

Shalom

Yeah Jdean, we conservatives just don't realize that some marriages fail. We would rather Trish abandon her kids and live on the streets. Just like we are going to take grandmas SS check away and let her eat dog food. Even though the Medicare drug program is flawed and I don't agree with it, I believe it was one of those evil Republican presidents who got it passed.

I've seen your argument in the playbook and it's stale. Try something more original.

For more clarity on my friend, the chronic illness mandates several medicines which are EXTREMELY costly yet, to live, are necssary. What should this person do, pay rent/utilities, work travel expense, or meds? And the 2nd job thing is not feasible for this person with the chronic illness, the person is not able to do much more than the one job at best.

Shalom

Darryl, there are many places your friend can find help with the high cost of prescription drug costs. My brother passed away of lung cancer 18 months ago and he had been employed with a trucking company for less than a year and did not qualify for their full health benefit/drug plan,for reasons unknown by me.
He recieved help from an on-line company that has private programs designed to help those like you describe. Many of them do not require a certain income level,only proof that the drugs you must buy are causing hardships,as was my brother's case.
Here is one but many can be found on the web. (I don't know which one he was connected with,but there are many to check out) Can't hurt to check.
http://www.freemedicinefoundation.com/

Darryl,
I just keep hearing Dickens' through Scrooge saying, "Why, aren't there workhouses for the poor? Maybe they'll die and decrease the surplus population". Some of today's attitudes are very similar in tone and that saddens many of us.

Your powder is wet world traveler.

Darryl, I'm curious as to the fate of your friend and his search for some help with the prescription drug issue. Keep me posted, k? He must be quiet a close friend for you to show such concern.He is lucky indeed to have you as a friend.

Darryl's friend is indeed lucky, neocon. Darryl is quite the guy. My respect for him is huge!

wow - a lot of work just to leave you a comment!
anyway, i totally lost the thread of meaning in all those comments! Maybe I should just go straight to insulting you and your mother's mother and get it over with!

to be honest, i'm not sure who's more at fault: the government for allowing it, the car manufacturers for making them in the first place in or the consumers who buy them. But these days, anyone can buy anthing for the right price. I definitely like your idea though! Too bad it would never happen -- it's seems like a nice medium between torching hummer dealerships and not having them at all!