Richard,

The very ones who take such an apathetic attitude about conserving are also the ones who deny global warming. Even when slapped in the face with truth, they will continue their denial because it does not fit their agendas. Remember, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. If these folks were to admit to global warming, they would have to take some responsibility for doing something about it. And they don't want to be responsible. Like children, they keep demanding more oil rather than taking care of what they have. Go figure.

http://community.hsn.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8961021/m/105105501

A minor understanding of phase lag, e.g., electrical circuits, blows this out of the water:

"There is no meaningful correlation between CO2 levels and Earth's temperature over this [geologic] time frame. In fact, when CO2 levels were over ten times higher than they are now, about 450 million years ago, the planet was in the depths of the absolute coldest period in the last half billion years."

... but since 70% can't even get through High School, a minor understanding of phase lag is too much to ask.

I'm not gonna bother with the rest - except to say the REAL Loser is America.

Do Windmills have a place? Sure. Who "owns" the technology (and the economy created by manufacturing windmills)? - DENMARK. Why? 'Cause regardless of the political BS, they've not kept their head up their ass and have developed it - unlike America that has let Corporate Interests muddle the conversation and given the Outsourced World a head start.

So argue all you want - don't encourage your kids to be thinking about the future. We don;t need Creative Thinkers, video and soccer games are much better for our kids. Shut up those that observe and question. When you hear how dis-interested parents are in promoting the math and science interests in American kids, know it's 'cause there's a little league game to go to, and after that, MTV is having a Skank Marathon.

Vouchers will solve all the problems, let our kids get a Communications Degree so they can wax poetic about Religion and Spontaneous Generation. After all, the Rapture is upon us, so why care about Man Dying in a Polluted World.

Here we go again, the republicians are the cause of global warming. Why, because we won't do what the dems want us to do.

This earth has been warming and cooling before man was ever present. And will continue to do so without our help. What we dumb humans think is extreme weather conditions that is happening now, has been always happening on this planet since its creation.

Its had ice ages, tropical climates, massives rains where most of the earth was covered with water. There has always been extreme storms. Just because some are happening now in your live time, you think that its unique and therefore we must be the cause of it.

Let me remind you that these same great minds that say we are causing global warming, stated 20 years ago we were going to have a mini ice age.

Is the earth warming at this stage, yes. Is it a cycle that is normal, possibly. Does anyone know for sure, NO. We have turned into a bunch of blame crowds. If something is different, lets blame it on someone. If something doesn't go our way, let blame it on someone or something.

Why is it so hard to believe that this is a natural occurrence. The ozone is caused by the sun, not man. Changes in the sun causes the ozone to change also. When the sun has unusual activity, increase sun spots, our weather changes also.

I guess it is easlier to just blame it on what we don't like. but it doesn't change what is happening.

"We must reduce our reliance on foreign oil by reducing consumption and by creating alternatives to oil, not by ruining pristine areas of Alaska and by further destroying the Gulf of Mexico. The oil in those areas would buy us, at most, another 10 years or so at present consumption levels."

Mr.Welsh, just what do you suggest we use to sustain our economy during the time it will take to create alternative energy products and systems? You say 10 years at most is all that the oil in the Gulf and your farleft wing painted picture of so called pristine Alaska (ANWAR region which is far from pristine so evidently you have never been even close), will buy us. Strange isn't it Mr. Welsh that area just south of Florida, that your type have screamed about not drilling in is now being drilled by the Chinese. Congratulations Mr. Welsh, you and your type have once again managed to sell the ignorant, especially those in Congress, on the idea that it is not worth the effort nor risk to drill anywhere off shore. It seems that you and your farleft wingers have managed to blackmail the duly elected, cowardly, representatives into believing your story and have once again put us back into 1973. I mean after all Mr.Welsh you and your kind didn't think we needed to expand our refining capabilities and look where that has gotten us. You see Mr. Welsh, we wouldn't have half the mess if you and your type had not continually found ways to stop building of refineries. We have oil, just not the capability to refine it in order to produce the fuel we need. Of course too Mr. Welsh unless you and your type give the stamp of approval, no alternative energy that fails to meet your demands will ever be produced. How about nuclear energy, Mr Welsh, you and your type on board for that? You complain but offer no alternatives Mr. Welsh.

Mr.Welsh instead of blaming the letter writer, the "rightwingers:", this administration, which is actually the point of your letter, just put the blame where it belongs, at least partially, on you and your type. Look in the mirror Mr.Welsh and see a big part of the problem. Then turn and look at what Congress has done since the last "crisis" created by your type in 1973. Congress has sat on their duffs and accomplished nada, nothing, zilch in way of encouraging alternative energy. Don't forget Mr. Welsh that you and your type helped to elect this bunch of do-nothings for the last 35 years. So get real Mr. Welsh and put the blame where it needs to be. And it sure is not Mr. Sanders , it is not just the rightwingers, it is those who are afraid to do, won't do and don't do and that Mr. Welsh includes you.

.. well this admin' is clearly guilty of dragging feet and throwing rocks in the way of far-thought progress.

The granola crunchers may be delaying the building of refineries, but the Oil industry does not qualify as "social responsibility first". It's cheaper to pay penalties, it's cheaper to hire a lobby team than fix problems. There's legit' reason for concern.

As one who's spent his life in Heavy Industry - I can tell you it's all about this months profits and very little about the future. Any great idea for Mankind is not pursued unless they get their money back in 2 years. That's a cold fact.

JDR,
Once again you are the giant among midgets on this. Good thoughts, well put. Seems the "rightwingers" like Produce and Bobby seem to jump on someone else when they get called on the carpet. Typical reaction of those who are so entrenched in the belief that they are always right. Produce attacked the writer because that is his only refuge.
It's too funny that the only scientists who are disputing global warming are the ones who benefit from the coal and oil industries. Of course if a politician with an "R" by his name says something, Produce and the likes of Bobby, neoCon,Hugh, and Dan will fall prostrate before them. (LOL!)

There is no oil shortage, but we're at the mercy of international oil traders who set prices on a global level. Our government or business leaders have little effect on this.

"Mr. Sanders, last time I checked, this country was being run by right-wingers like you, in the back pocket of big oil and the insurance industry."

That's all I needed to know about this LTTE and it's author.

Next!

P.S.-- Regardless of how much you want to spin it, there is NO consensus about Global Warming among legitimate scientists, and there is solid evidence that mankind's consumption of fossil fuel has nothing to do with global climate change and/or global warming.

Jackbar: There may or not be an "Oil Crisis" de jour, but there is a finite supply. Personally, I'd like to leave some around for my great-great-great-great-grand-kids - beyond a paleo-exibit.

"This is the last known quart of oil - it was found in a dig around a site known as the Smithsonian, where cultural remnants were keep by beings that, believe it or not, actually went outside into what was then fresh air. This was all before the 22nd Century Dark Ages, when, as you know, dramatic changes occurred. Most current 25th century Priests say the Dark Ages were caused as the wrath of God - please go to this exhibit for more information:

http://www.apocalypsesoon.org/english.html

Bubba: Ever hear of Copernicus? Sometimes you seem a transplant from the 14th Century.

http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Mathematicians/Copernicus.html

Bobby,

There are man-made problems that have had negative effects on our planet. To deny this is, how shall I put this delicately, not a very intelligent statement. The conditions of this earth have changed.

Man has been trying to destroy our environment for a long. While it may not be an intentional act, little is done to preserve our planet. Thoughts on conservation and preservation are not in the minds of the general public. We are greedy, thoughtless caretakers of our world.

"Why is it so hard to believe that this is a natural occurrence. The ozone is caused by the sun, not man. Changes in the sun causes the ozone to change also. When the sun has unusual activity, increase sun spots, our weather changes also."

Bobby: Some Light reading for you:
http://www.atm.ch.cam.ac.uk/tour/readme.html

Bobby,
You make far too much sense to be taken seriously here by some. The chicken little crowd has been duped by the environmental wackos and left wing politicians who want their vote. They'll believe anything a college professor or a 'scientist' tell them as long as it suits their agenda. That agenda being to blame the oil companies - and of course Bush - for all the woes facing mankind not only today, but for future woes as far as the eye can see.

Here is a little more "light reading" for you, Bobby. Pay special attention to the temperature graphs. Of course, it will be dismissed as poppycock by the hand wringers, but what else is new?

http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/ice_ages.html

I feel so guilty being a right-wing conservative that I think I will trade in my oversized SUV and get something small (like an 1988 Yugo) that way I can be cramped, uncomfortable, at risk of certain death in the event of an accident and miserable. Then and only then will I reach the true annointment of being a liberal.

I get no joy of paying higher gas prices, and no I am not invested in oil stocks, but in capitalism you get what you deserve. Our prices for fuel are still cheaper than our culturally superior European friends and a gallon of gas is still cheaper than a cup of Starbucks, in either case no one is holding a gun to your head.

"Mr. Sanders, last time I checked, this country was being run by right-wingers like you, in the back pocket of big oil and the insurance industry. I am surprised you didn't blame the Clintons."

I keep hearing about the global warming hockey stick, which illustrates the dramatic increase in global temperatures. It starts to rise in the 1900's but really peaks quickly in the 1990's.

http://www.john-daly.com/hockey/hockey.htm

Damn, Bush wasn't around as prez then, can't blame it on him, but Clinton was, so global warming has...........gotta be Clinton's (and Gore's) fault!!

Seriously, I don't remember algore's big crusade about global warming when he was vice perpetrator. He coulda done something about it then. Why didn't he? I guess he was too busy inventing the Internet, torching Branch Davidian terrorists, and telling his boss to keep his fly zipped.

I found it ironic that a film called "Cars" that features eeeeeevvviiiill gas guzzling race cars is #1 in box office sales while algores film isn't even in the top 10.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr/charts/boxoffice/top_ten.jsp

We took the kids to Cars, it is an enjoyable film for both kids and adults. Maybe algore could do the prelude.

How's the election campaign coming, Demon? Maybe you should be out cmapaigning rather than spewing your vile around here?

Off Thread - but it struck me as funny:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13521628/site/newsweek/

If the DEM's call it - it's cut and run.

If Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki calls for it ... well let's see how it's spun.

JDR,
Nixon used the phrase "Peace with Honor" and "Vietnamization" after he realized we were getting skunked in the jungles. I'm sure someone will come up with a phrase for Bush like
"Iraqi-iz-ation" to describe what they now call
"Cut and Run".
Too bad the mental lightweights can't see through the fog of propaganda.

JDR, what is even more amazing is the "amnesty" deal! It is not noteworthy I guess.

Shalom

Interesting story JDR, even though it strays off topic.

Of particular interest was this part:

"The distinction between insurgents and terrorists is one of the key principles in the document, and is in response to Sunni politicians' demands that the "national resistance" should not be punished for what they see as legitimate self-defense in attacks against a foreign occupying power. Principle No. 19 calls for "Recognizing the legitimacy of the national resistance and differentiating or separating it from terrorism" while "encouraging the national resistance to enroll in the political process and recognizing the necessity of the participation of the national resistance in the national reconciliation dialogue."

I may be able to put myself in the insurgents minds (I still call them terrorists btw) and see their point about resisting a foreign occupying power. But how do the terrorists..er...insurgents...er...national resistance justify their massive killing of fellow Iraqis?

Seems even terrorists are learning our politically correct lingo. The new PC term for terrorists is "national resistance". Funny.

Dan - first you're dodging. The point was R's have spent the last few months saying STAY THE COURSE, YOU LOOSER DEMOCRATS, while the Dems were saying, maybe we've done all we can ... and now the Iraqi governement has agreed with the Dem's position ... Irony, uh?

As for terrorist insurgents justifying killing of fellow Iraqis .. well in my opinion, a lot of it is Hatfields & Mc Coys type stuff; a lot of it is
"You help the Occupiers, you DIE", and "You wear shorts in this 120 degree heat then you are an infidel, and you DIE".

The majority of Iraqi's are, as far as I can tell, reasonable folks, but there a bunch of wackie's. We have them herem but we have SOME control, because Religion is second to Law. They have an opposite situation - think if Pat Robertson had more pull than Colin Powell.

Lemme say that again - 'cause it's critical:

In America, Religion is second to Law.

In the Middle East, Religion is top dog and trumps the rule of law. The only thing more powerful than Religion is an All Power Leader - like Saddam and durn near every other Monster ruling the third world. Do some research. That's the reality of it - however there are some exceptions, and hopefully this will end up as one of those exceptions - but don't bet the farm.

I say take the opportunity and get the hell out. Before we actually leave, and it'll take a year, maybe (hopefully) we'll be offered a Base there - frankly we need it - but we sure got there the stupid way .. and the bitch is, these NeoCon asses will be reelected 'cause there's no alternative, and they're so organized they are dangererous.

Just don't BS me that they're "conservative".

JDR,
Thank you for setting Dan straight on the "Conservative" part, as I think he is a tad conflicted. I can remember when we blamed the liberals, the hippies and the war protestors during Vietnam, but history has vindicated them. The tapes from Johnson's White House, and the memoir by McNamara discredited all the BS we were told about how "the dominoes will fall in Asia if we pull out of Vietnam".
Don't guess Dan's old enough to realize we have been sold the same bill of goods by a Democratic President that we are being sold by a Republican.

DD,

It must be burdensome to have all the answers and own all intellectual properties.

Please tell me what stocks I should buy in the next quarter.

Who is going to win the Superbowl, I want to bet early while the odds are favorable?

Will Hillary run for office, and will her first legistlation be a national day of sack cloth and ashes to make all of us in the great unwashed camp become more sensitive to Islam?

So many opportunities, so little time, please keep posting DD, you are amusing.

Deacon: "I can remember when we blamed the liberals, the hippies and the war protestors during Vietnam, but history has vindicated them."

I'll change this to:

"I can remember when we (the left)blamed Reagan (who had the audacity to call the Soviet Union the "Evil Empire") and conservatives for being war mongers, building up nukes, and threatening to start WWIII with the Soviets, but history has vindicated the conservatives."

I was a child during Vietnam, so I don't remember it. I do remember all the college campus protests in the early 80's against Reagan and his massive arms build up. I lived in France and saw how the French hated Reagan and thought he was going to start a nuclear war with the Soviets. They like most good lefties would prefer to bury their heads in the sand and hope evil will just go away.

Well history in this case proved all the naysayers wrong. After decades of appeasment, one man with some guts stood up to the appeasers and defeated the Soviets.

If you think "one man" as in Ronald Reagan, defeated communism, you ARE a history illiterate.

The economy of the Soviet Union was under threat of collapse for many years but began to crumble while Reagan was in office. Military build up began in the late 1970's and continued into the early to mid 80's. Saying Reagan ended the old Soviet Union is like saying Herbert Hoover created the Great Depression! As in Porgy and Bess, "It ain't necessarily so".

And, for clarification, the protests against Reagan were non-existent when compared with the movement of the 1960s.

Last point: Guess the arms for hostages was another great Reagan program. Is that the reason the current country of Iran has been able to aggressively work on nukes? Or to be a staunch ally of the U.S.? Oh, let me guess....that would be Clinton's fault! LOL!
Step down off your GOP soapbox and smell the coffee.

OK DD, I'll change it to one man and one woman. Reagan and Margaret Thatcher. I didn't say communism was defeated, I said the Soviet Union. Communism is alive and well in Cuba and China, although China seems to enjoy capitalism economically yet communism politically.

Try what you might DD, the appeasers who opposed Reagan and criticized him about starting WWIII were on the wrong side of history.

I will be in to Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia in less than two weeks. My parents went there shortly after those countries were liberated. Things were backwards they told me. Estonia is now called "E-stonia" because of how technologically advanced they are.

I'll be sure to ask a few Estonians if they would like to import you and your ideology.

Dan,

You can't reach DD with logic, liberals refuse to believe the truth, logic and anything close to resembling intellectual honesty.

SP,
And who in your trailer park is giving you remedial help? Put your stars and bars down, take your hood off and then we'll discuss your ignorance en masse.

DD

No need to get ugly with name calling and veiled references towards ones assumed socio-economic status.

By the way my class for remdial education has room for one more smart guy.

SP, not sure how long you have been posting, but get used to DD. If you don't agree with him, which most folks don't, you will be labeled trailer trash, ignorant, etc. The KKK hood was a new one. Bravo DD!!

DD has called me an a**hole, an uninvolved parent, and....my favorite.....a little tin pot flag waver.

Once again, get used to it SP, when one cannot logically support their argument they resort to petty insults.

Dan,

Thanks for the heads up!! \

Oh, DD, please have a blessed day:)

SP,

DD's response was to YOUR suggestion that he (and all other liberals) was unreasonable, dishonest and illogical as noted by your post immediately before his response. So it's OK for you to be insulting to a selected few but DD is not to insult you? If you gonna dish it out, learn to take it.

Yvonne,

I can take it, we are free to disagree and I am happy to be labeled a conservative, rightwinger and Bush lover....I am all of those. I have critized you and the DD's of world on your opinion and attitude towards politics.

I have never resorted to deriding someone for their presumed economic status, association with criminal groups or supposed IQ or lack thereof. Because we disagree does not make you or I intellectually superior to the other.

If you cannot assert your position on facts and argument alone, why villify those who disagree with you?

Lastly, as for insulting me....Bring it on, it only furthers my point.

"Bring it on..." ---Where have we heard that before?

blah, blah, blah.

"You can't reach DD with logic, liberals refuse to believe truth, logic and anything close to resembling intellectual honesty."

Now, what I want to know is which part of this statement is not questioning the intellect, the honesty, the logic and the truthfulness of liberals? You make a statement like that and claim moral superiority because you do not question the socio-economic status of liberals?

I'm sorry, SP, but I see little difference in the meaning in your terminology and DD's. It is my opinion you have painted with a broad brush and insulted every person that identifies as liberal.

And why is it OK to "criticize" me "and the DD's of the world" because we may not agree with you politically? You imply we are somewhat limited in this respect because our "opinions and attitudes" are not the same as your's.

If it's alright with you, I decline to "bring it on". I do not want to get into a pissing contest with you or anyone else. It is counterproductive to the reason I participate in this forum.

I merely wanted to point out what I perceived as hypocricy in your post to Dan about all liberals. Then you had the audacity to chastize DD for his insult. Just seemed to be the pot.......

You will read no more from me on this. I have stated how I feel and do not need to belabor the point any longer.

I do apologize for leading this thread off-course. Sometimes the side trips are more stimulating because they deal with human emotion. Often these trips make us think about the impact an impulsive, broad post can be perceived by others and thus rewrite before hitting post. Sometimes not.

Have a blessed week, SP. Perhaps we will be on the same page in the future and can find common ground.

Thanks Yvonne.
I will watch my own words more carefully, as I have entered the gutteral areas heretofore held firmly by the right wing.

Yvonne,
Don't worry about being first on this. The second post, had a link to a HOME SHOPPING CHAT SITE!! Evidently, some folks get their news from some bizarre outlets.

"Thanks Yvonne.
I will watch my own words more carefully, as I have entered the gutteral areas heretofore held firmly by the right wing."

Great news, glad to hear it. I am going to copy this quote and keep it in a Word document. Anytime you enter the right wing gutteral areas I will paste the quote as a reminder to watch your words more carefully.

Ok the Word document is created, named

"DD Quote 6 26 06" and saved on the hard drive.

Let's see if it works:

Thanks Yvonne.
I will watch my own words more carefully, as I have entered the gutteral areas heretofore held firmly by the right wing.
Posted by: DemonDeacon at June 26, 2006 01:31 PM

http://blog.news-record.com/staff/letters/archives/2006/06/blame_our_energ.html

Yep there she is.

One note: the Word spell checker changed gutteral to guttural.

That spell checker is for the trailer trash, Dan.

Nah, trailer trash don't have computers. If they did, they wouldn't know how to use them. If they knew how to use them, they couldn't afford the Internet subscription :)

Dan,
Maybe they don't have it because they are not being responsible? You know, they just haven't pulled themselves up by the bootstraps like you did.

Nah, they don't have computers because they are too stupid to know how to use them, after all they all voted for Bush. Probably too poor too, spent money on a new coon dog instead of a computer for their yung'uns to learn something.

I think we need a new govt. program to buy computers for trailer trash and pay for their Internet service. Default home page would be Natl. Rifle Assn. or KKK as DDD suggests to SP.

Oh wait, you asked who in the trailer park was giving SP help. How did he/she get hold of a computer?

Well one thing you got right--if they voted for Bush, then they ARE stupid! The spending of their money as they see fit, is a conservative plank. After all, it's THEIR money. Seems you are talking out of both sides now, ol Dan.

The groups you mentioned, NRA, KKK,

etc......they sure don't support any

"Lib-ur-ruls" now do they!
Nope. They are proud "CONSERVATIVES".
Will the Stars and Bars be covered under your "Flag Desecretion Amendment" to the United States Constitution?? That'll get 'em riled up!

"Well one thing you got right--if they voted for Bush, then they ARE stupid!"

Dang, I thought it would be at least tomorrow morning before I brought this out, but here tis:

"Thanks Yvonne.
I will watch my own words more carefully, as I have entered the gutteral areas heretofore held firmly by the right wing."
Posted by: DemonDeacon at June 26, 2006 01:31 PM

Calling everyone who voted for Bush stupid isn't watching your words carefully.

I better backup this quote on CD, looks like I'm going to be using it alot.

Old Danny,
Guess you can't refute the NRA and KKK being good old conservative base. You know what they say about the heat in the kitchen! (LOL!)

Oh, the real proof of being stupid would have to be those who would, knowing what we know today, STILL VOTE FOR BUSH! Conservative? Largest deficit EVER. Consevative? Largest increase in federal government EVER, including FDR. He is not the conservative's candidate, unless you mean SOCIAL CONSERVATIVE. You know, the folks who believe there is no credible proof the world is over 10,000 years old. The folks who believe by putting government sponsored prayer back in schools, we instantly eliminate all the problems. Those who believe that Flag Burning is a REAL issue. Those who believe Gays getting married is a threat to our security. Whew! Guess you're at the fork in the road. What'll it be? Ignorance or enlightenment?

George W. Bush has no intellectual curiosity---per his own admission. Why on earth would you still support him, sans immigration, today???
What would it take? What would it take for you to admit he is not a good leader? If some intern turns his crank tonight, would that do it? It would have to be something like that, because you are carrying water for him at every turn---truly unbelieveable.

DD mentions removing hood to SP, read; KKK. Dan mentions KKK as homesite for trailer trash, NRA for good measure. Humor....get it? I guess not.

See you later, I'm bored with this. Gonna go watch Hannity.

Signed,

Old Danny