Prepare to be raked over the coals by the 'freethinkers' and the hypocritical liberals who claim to be religious, but cannot find it in themselves to disagree with their political compatriots.

"... the whole sunset idea. That was pure genius. It must have taken years to work that out."

Yep - several Billion in fact .. but if you believe that, then you cannot believe in God, 'cause according to the Bible, it all began about 4044 B.C.

==

I've always wondered why "God's gift of eternal life in paradise with family and friends, to those who believe" is more credible than 72 virgins in heaven to those who believe.

"I would love to meet the person who came up with the whole sunset idea. That was pure genius."

I'd guess it's the same "genius" that came up with tsunamis and cancer.

When it comes to sources of inspiration, the list of possibilities is about endless. So what if some of us don't find the idea of infinite pleasure all that appealing?

I thank god every time a baby is killed
I thank god every time a woman is raped.
I thank god every time a child is beaten.

After all, it must be "gods will" that these things are done.
It HAS to be gods will that these things are done.

If not, then god has no control over what happens in the world, therefore he couldn't be "god"

Thank you god for causing such harm and allowing hate to rule the world.

Thank you god for excluding 3/5ths of the world's population access to heaven. I wouldn't want to live in eternity with all those dirty Muslims anyways.

How do you believers explain away all the errors and contradictions in the Bible?

I saw this great bumper sticker a while back. It said "I found Jesus! He's in my trunk"

lol

its my understanding that this world is satan's ... the devil can, will, and desires to feast on our minds, our bodies, and our environment, and his mission is to make us flesh and blood inhabitants of the world assure ourselves that Jesus is our/the enemy- generally speaking he has always enjoyed great success in his mission....so therefore you have doubters like Rockefeller, atheists like Nemo, and then a lot of I-am-angry-and-blame-G-d-for-whatever-reason types like Brian Harper so that they can all together assure themselves that it is only right and just to be the Lord of your Life since you can really only rely on yourself...its also known as Intellectual Idolatry and most blogs proliferate with those who idolize their intellect and love themselves more than their Creator...that is precisely why anyone who claims we are all Children of G-d is incorrect, the correct statement is that we are all G-d's Creation...those who obey His Word He calls His Children..

There are two groups of people in this world: Believers and Unbelievers...we all have the freedom to take the side we believe is the correct one...having been have of my life staunchly stubbornly and proudly on the unbelieving side, I now am firmly on the other.

"Fortunately, 4 billion other people with faith share my belief."

How many Germans shared Hitler's beliefs? High numbers don't necessarily mean that the shared beliefs are right. Logical fallacy.

D'oh! I invoked that rule about mentioning the Nazi's. Sorry.

Sunsets are beautiful because sunlight bounces off opaque particles suspended in the air. Mr Dickson would have us thank his god - his opinations seem to preclude the possibility that it would be anyone else's god - for the factories belching pollution and the drought induced dust storms that are provided specifically for the satiation of Mr Dickson's aesthetic sensibilities.
Actually, this seems to be an innocent enough pasttime for a god known otherwise as an immoral butcher of innocents.
And no, Cap'n Huff'n'Puff, it's not the politics of the matter at all, but rather the crass stupidity of Mr Dickson's commments. As I'm sure someone so well informed as you are knows, the Constitution's Article VI specifically states:
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the members of the several state legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers, both of the United States and of the several states, shall be bound by oath or affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.
If the coals are hot, it's only because people with more sense and sensitivity that Mr Dickson stoked the fire.

J4J:

Can you explain to me why G_d wants (expects? Requires?) man to be so fearful of him? It seems He is not content unless man is shaking in his boots over the power of the Almighty.

That's a serious question - and it's something I never understood.

I do understand the "reasons" for the disasters others in this blog are so upset over .. you'll note they were not mentioned as a reason for my "doubt" - although the oft' stated concept of Heaven re-expresssd by Dickson seems really shallow.

I don't blame god for anything, because I don't believe there is a god to blame.

If you can prove to me that there is a god, I'll believe, but unfortunately god cannot be proven to exist. Only believed to exist.

And the Christian god...What a vain and unfair god this dude is (according to the buy-bull) A god that makes wagers with satan, condones war and many old-testament practices.

Jesus, the Easter Bunny for adults....

By the way, why would it ever be "in gods will" to have a baby killed so it could be "home" with Jesus? Fair? lol. I think not.

Another thing, how can one take the bible as the word of god? If god is perfect and without err, and the bible is the word of god....How is his possible when the bible contains so many errors and contradictions? Just wondering.

"If that is the case, then I would love to meet the person who came up with the whole sunset idea."

Huh? What is that supposed to mean?

All the love comes out when you bring up God doesn't it? Scary to see folks so bitter about something they either believe or they don't.

4 billion people..... excluding 3/5's of the world's population from heaven.....

Something isn't adding up here.

The world's population is around 6.6 billion. Estimates are that there are a little over 1 billion Christians.

So maybe the writer is including those looking forward to 72 virgins.

Ain't it the truth Nit? Mention faith, especially Christian faith, and the venom starts a spewin.

Everyone has the right to believe or not believe what he/she wishes, but for the life of me I don't understand the Harperesque anger and bitterness towards people of faith in particular and the world in general.

Dan - I think it's the Holier-than-thou attitude that some .. not all .. exhibit.

"Everyone has the right to believe or not believe what he/she wishes,"

Ask the mullahs and the ayatollah about that and see what kind of reponse you get.

"but for the life of me I don't understand the Harperesque anger and bitterness towards people of faith in particular and the world in general."

Exactly who are you referring to here? A person exhibiting such intense negative emotions is in dire need of some sort of counseling.

I find it interesting to hear the differing view/belief of other Christians/people of faith. And even more so, to listen to people who do not believe such.

I did like reading Brian Harper's early post. The interesting thing is that I have yet to see any valid attempt at explaining the first few lines of that post.

In reference to "God's will," I like what a former professor stated; "God's will for me is the plan that I am working on right now." I like that and have held to it since hearing it and listening to it discussed much deeper.

Snake, I said everyone has the right to believe, I didn't say the right to "express". Fortunately we have the right to express our beliefs here.

"Exactly who are you referring to here? A person exhibiting such intense negative emotions is in dire need of some sort of counseling."

Agreed, but it's not my job for Brian to seek counseling, that's up to him. It's also not my job to read his bitter, condescending posts for you, read them yourself. Hint: one says "Posted by Brian Harper 10:46 am."

You finally did it Darryl, forgot the Shalom. First time I ever recall, that's quite a record.

Shalom

Thought I would do it for you :)

There is an answer to the question asked earlier on this thread. However, having attempted to post it twice, I have twice received the following response from the N&R:

"Letters to the Editor
News & Record Letters to the Editor.
Thank You for Commenting

Your comment has been received. To protect against malicious comments, I have enabled a feature that allows your comments to be held for approval the first time you post a comment. I'll approve your comment when convenient; there is no need to re-post your comment. Return to the comment page."

Whether this is a technical glitch or active censorship, I cannot know. Obviously, this is not "the first time" I've posted a comment. The N&R has not responded to inquiries. Some posts go through ... some do not. There was nothing malicious in the post. I can't prove that, of course, because it hasn't been posted. C'est la vie!

Now, I know that many are delighted to read this. Enjoy!! Just be aware that this situation exists.

In reference to "God's will," I like what a former professor stated; "God's will for me is the plan that I am working on right now." I like that and have held to it since hearing it and listening to it discussed much deeper.

Posted by Darryl | March 29, 2007 1:44 PM

friend, you do not speak my mind...

j4j -- I know a Christian who would tell you that you are both far removed from True Christainity. Obviously, I as an outsider have no way of knowing what Christianity truly entails, since none of you can get on the same page. I guess I'll just have to deal with you all as individuals. Which is probably for the best anyway.

"I'll just have to deal with you all as individuals"

DEFINITELY for the best.

Jack,

Ran into that problem on "Thinking Out Loud" about a year ago. Your comment will never be posted. It probably is a technical glitch.

"Your comment will never be posted. It probably is a technical glitch."

It's more fun if you blame the "liberal media."

heh J4J .. did you miss my question, or is an unanswerable?

==

Can you explain to me why G_d wants (expects? Requires?) man to be so fearful of him? It seems He is not content unless man is shaking in his boots over the power of the Almighty.

That's a serious question - and it's something I never understood.

"Snake, I said everyone has the right to believe, I didn't say the right to "express". Fortunately we have the right to express our beliefs here."

In this country, yes. In some other countries that need not be named, you do not have any such right to beLIEve. Everyone should have the right to beLIEve whatever nonsense helps them to sleep at night, but unfortunately here in the real world not everyone enjoys the same rights we do here.

"Agreed, but it's not my job for Brian to seek counseling, that's up to him. It's also not my job to read his bitter, condescending posts for you, read them yourself."

Ahh, I see said the blind man. You're tranferring your offense with Brian's posts into an emotional/personality/mental disorder in an effort to understand why someone would say such things you disagree with so vehemently. So sad.

Dan, thanks for catching my forgetfulness in expressing "shalom" at the end of my post above.

J4J, what can I say? At least I attempted to communicate my belief on "God's will." I do not recall seeing any others of Christian or other faith beliefs do so.

nemo, even if some have similarities, addressing each one individually would probably be best!

JDR, I await to see J4J's response to the "fear" question myself. However, I am NOT holding my breath while doing so! {:o)~

And you know, at this point I believe that Mr. Dickson feels threathened by Rep. Pete Stark's disclosure. As for me, what Rep. Stark believes is of his own desire, not mine. Like most things in life, etc., I am not held accountable for what others do/believe. I am accountable for what I do/believe.

And for the record, my Christian faith is such that I feel no threat from the beliefs of others. I may not always understand/comprehend the beliefs that others hold, however, their belief cannot/does not harm me!

Shalom

Snake, apparently you don't know the difference between believe and express. Here is a good example: My wife has an old college friend who lives in Kuwait. She is a devout Christian. She has the right to her "beliefs" over there but not the right to "express" those beliefs, at least not in public.

What you believe is in your mind and cannot be changed, get the difference hmmmm?

As for the counseling part, sorry it went over your head. Some folks don't have a sense of humor, I understand.

"You're transferring your offense with Brian's posts into an emotional/personality/mental disorder in an effort to understand why someone would say such things you disagree with so vehemently."

That sentence however is hilarious!! Sounds like some touchy feeling gobbly gook from a self help book. Amazing how you can diagnose my condition from a blog. I'll call a shrink pronto and let them know what is wrong with me.

Now tell me how the following statement is considered an "offense", much less a statement that reflects the need for counseling.

"...for the life of me I don't understand the Harperesque anger and bitterness towards people of faith in particular and the world in general."

Meanwhile you give statements such as these a pass:

"Jesus, the Easter Bunny for adults...."

"Thank you god for causing such harm and allowing hate to rule the world."

Don't quit your day job to become a shrink!!

It is answerable, Mr. Rockefeller. But two attempts to do so were inexplicably not "displayed" here after posting.

C'est la vie.

You know, maybe giving the comments that may be described as "meanspirited" towards people of Christian faith is but ONE way of showing Christian love. I could be wrong in this, however, I would rather err on the side of right than to use hurtful words in response.

And in reality, I have gained several friends who are atheist and/or agnostic due to this. They respect me for my Christian faith and I respect them for the belief structure which they hold or not.

Friendships should not be based upon one issue. Life is much larger than that.

Shalom

Rock-
I am not following you on your question since I dont sense that about the G-d of Abraham, but if you require an answer from me then I would attempt to answer by saying in the words of Jack Nicholson that maybe the reason is because, "You can't handle the truth!"...

Maybe G-d is angry that you would choose to worship and follow anyone else (incl. yourself) or anything other than Him, your Creator, your Abba- He wants you to be His, His child. He is angry that you would deny Him and follow the incorrect path.

I mean I am not shaking in my boots over the 'Power of the Almighty' but maybe you see that others do, I dont and it has never occured to me that I should (or should not)...IMO, those (many who are posting here right now) who may sense that there is Absolute Truth and that they could be wrong about who Jesus says He is, well, I guess they can't handle the truth, because then they can't be Lords of their own lives and do and say as they please ...

but I would be shaking in my boots knowing that if I was wrong about Jesus, that not only had I lived a life that was a complete lie, but the consequences that await are indeed the worst possible scenario one can possibly imagine...life is really going to enfold for one based on that decision of who you think Jesus is.

Nemo I know that you know and believe that Jesus is who He said he is and He lives in your heart and He never let you go despite all you have done to deny Him...when you decide to deal with and resolve your roots of bitterness you will praise His name again.

This post:
"Prepare to be raked over the coals by the 'freethinkers' and the hypocritical liberals who claim to be religious, but cannot find it in themselves to disagree with their political compatriots."

Coupled with this post:

"I am not following you on your question since I dont sense that about the G-d of Abraham, but if you require an answer from me then I would attempt to answer by saying in the words of Jack Nicholson that maybe the reason is because, "You can't handle the truth!"..."

EQUALS: Fruitcakes Galore!!

As my good friend Jeff always says, It's not against the law to be stupid!

AMEN & KUMBA-FREAKING-YA!!

It is answerable, Mr. Rockefeller. But two attempts to do so were inexplicably not "displayed" here after posting.

C'est la vie.

Posted by JackArmstrong | March 29, 2007 5:10 PM

==

So it's lame stream media censorship, Jackie?

hard to tell if the liberal conservative is a believer or unbeliever isnt it...one thing tho 4 sure, he is definitely better than the rest of us and he knows it.

Thanks J4J. Thanks.

fwiw, I don't think you're wrong about Jesus, & while often failing, I do try to follow his teachings in my daily life - that keeps me off the "complete lie" path .. but that said, I'll be dust while you are eternally saying hey to your great great's. My loss perhaps.

Now tell me how the following statement is considered an "offense", much less a statement that reflects the need for counseling.

"...for the life of me I don't understand the Harperesque anger and bitterness towards people of faith in particular and the world in general."

I never said it was. It's obvious you find the person that you're talking about, ie., the person you say is harboring anger and bitterness in need of counseling.

Meanwhile you give statements such as these a pass:

"Jesus, the Easter Bunny for adults...."

"Thank you god for causing such harm and allowing hate to rule the world."

And your point is?

Don't quit your day job to become a shrink!!

Lighten up dude, sheesh.

Nope. I said it was inexplicable. More likely, a technical glitch. Apparently, nitpicker had the same experience a while back.

Considering the almost immediate "form reply" from the N&R, I doubt it was active censorship.

Have you a better explanation?

snake, I never brought up the counseling, 'twas you my friend.

My point is you give a pass to such statements like Jesus being the Easter bunny for adults and come up with "transferring offenses", yada yada, a gobbly gook statement reminiscent of a B rated self help book.

I take it you aren't a shrink, good thing.

snake, I never brought up the counseling, 'twas you my friend.

True, but twas you reading Harperesque anger and bitterness into friend Brian's postings.

My point is you give a pass to such statements like Jesus being the Easter bunny for adults

Why should I care what Brian's opinion of jesus is? As for the rest:

"You're transferring your offense with Brian's posts into an emotional/personality/mental disorder in an effort to understand why someone would say such things you disagree with so vehemently."

Have you ever heard of a sense of humor? It appears you could use one.

Rock-

please check out: http://www.searchnational.org/

when there at the home page also click on 'locations' and choose north carolina...then scroll to the Greensboro location to find the man who represents Search Ministries in Greensboro and give him a call...you will have never met a man like this before and he is a bible teacher...you write above that you try to follow Jesus' teachings in your everyday life and so here is a man in Greensboro whose sole purpose in ministry is to help men in that very thing that you want to do daily...

Good job, guys. With this level of discussion, I think we'll have this God business settled soon.

"You're transferring your offense with Brian's posts into an emotional/personality/mental disorder in an effort to understand why someone would say such things you disagree with so vehemently."

Oh, that's right, I heard that joke on Letterman last week. I think Rosie used it on The View as well.

I'm glad to be of service, to offer a view point that sparks debate. lol

Peace!

Thanks Brian, whenever the subject is religion we can count on you. Peace to you too.

jew4jesus, one answer to the question which James D. Rockefeller addressed to you can be found here:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fear

Dictionary.com:
"fear"
-noun
Definition #4: reverential awe, esp. toward God.

And again, here:

http://www.bartleby.com/61/3/F0060300.html

The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000:

"fear"
NOUN
Definition #3: Extreme reverence or awe, as toward a supreme power.

TRANSITIVE VERB
Definition #3: To be in awe of; revere.

One must be open-minded enough to look beyond "Definition #1a" to grasp the true, deeper meaning of a word within the context in which it is used. Thus, to be "God-fearing" does not mean "afraid of God," rather, it means "to be in awe of or reverential toward God."

jew4jesus, one answer to the question which James D. Rockefeller addressed to you can be found here:

Dictionary.com:
"fear"
-noun
Definition #4: reverential awe, esp. toward God.

And again, here:

The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000:

"fear"
NOUN
Definition #3: Extreme reverence or awe, as toward a supreme power.

TRANSITIVE VERB
Definition #3: To be in awe of; revere.

One must be open-minded enough to look beyond "Definition #1a" to grasp the true, deeper meaning of a word within the context in which it is used. Thus, to be "God-fearing" does not mean "afraid of God," rather, it means "to be in awe of or reverential toward God."

Note:

When the 11:32 posting was AGAIN held back, I tried posting without the links, resulting in success at 11:34.

THEN, the 11:32 posting was displayed, resulting in a near duplication.

N&R did finally respond around 10:35 this a.m. stating they are working to isolate the problem and suggesting I update my browser to the latest version. Alas, I am already using the latest version.

Just so ya know.

What browser are you using Jack? I couldn't post on the blog using Internet Explorer and had to download Firefox. I actually like it better and am using it for all my surfing instead.

So do I, Dan. And, for the most part, I prefer it to IE. I believe most virus creators write for IE, so Firefox has less of a problem in that regard. There are a few issues where only IE will work, but by and large, Firefox is quite satisfactory. And it's easy enough to have both on one's system.

According to the N&R, IE, Firefox and Opera are all okay for their sites.

Jack - Thanks for the update .. but my point was the Fire and Brimstone's focus on "Definition #1a" .. witness at a tent revival before attempting a refute.

Most not swayed by #Definition #1a" are into the eternal visits with grand-pa in heaven argument, and that is the primary focus in more "moderate" churches.

According to an Pastor whom I have great respect for - a true man of the cloth (whatever that means) and I'm not being sarcastic - you can also match Church Preference with Financials - folks of a like net-worth choose x and folks of a higher but similar net-worth choose y and so on.

p.s.: May God Strike me down ... if I have misrepresented fear.

I won't attempt to refute your testimony, James D. Rockefeller. I have never witnessed at a tent revival. So I will have to take your apparently intimate knowledge and experience in the matter at face value.

But that leads me to wonder why you have never understood that to which you were witnessing. Do you do a lot of witnessing without understanding?

Your question to jew4jesus read:

"Can you explain to me why G_d wants (expects? Requires?) man to be so fearful of him? It seems He is not content unless man is shaking in his boots over the power of the Almighty. That's a serious question - and it's something I never understood."

Looks to me like you were not really asking a question, but simply baiting jew4jesus, as you had made up your mind already. Hmmm?

By the way, a savvy Internet search technician of your caliber should have been able to find this, but just in case you can't:

http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mmanofcloth.html

Well first off, Jack, not everyone agrees with your testament that the absolute meaning of "Man of the cloth" .. is "elegant costumes of servants" to "clothes that distinguished a profession" to "clergyman who wore professional garb".

I'll bet J4J is one of many seeing a more direct link the Shroud of Turin.

Second: I was only being flippant with that comment.

Almost Finally .. My question to jew4jesus was serious. He answered as best he could, and while he is a certainly true believer, I confess to not really "getting" his answer.

You jumped in with "the definitive answer" .. but like your answer to "Man of the cloth" - regardless of your claimed absoluteness .. many questions offer more than one correct answer.

Finally: Life is gray - very little is truly black or white. Don't believe it? Go to the paint store and check out the selections of "white".

You are either a young squirt that hasn't figured that out yet, or a serious arrogant.

Well, James D. Rockefeller, as you are burdened with that unconquerable obsession to have the last word; and as you have exhibited your ineptitude in handling the King's (Queen's) English yet again by using "arrogant" as a noun rather than an adjective, THEREBY leaving an opening through which even a young squirt could drive a truck ... I must ask, "An arrogant ... what?"

Sotto voce:
{That was your CUE to have the last word, in case you haven't figured that out yet, James D. Rockefeller}