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War, what is it good for?

We're almost two years into the Iraq war. Has it been worth it?

What war has been?

I don't know how history will judge Operation Iraqi Freedom, launched March 20, 2003. Its primary justification - that Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction and posed an imminent threat to the region and to U.S. interests - long ago collapsed. Some 150,000 U.S. troops remain in the country, the cost continues to increase and the ultimate outcome is uncertain.

At the same time, some positive things are happening. The Jan. 30 elections began a process that could lead to a democratic government and also have stirred democratic aspirations elsewhere in the Middle East. Still, it's far too early in my estimation to declare U.S. and coalition actions a failure or a success. Certainly, I would not want to tell the brave men and women who have served in Iraq, or the families of those killed and wounded, that what they've done has been a waste. Maybe we'll have to draw that conclusion someday, but I hope not.

My question today is, what U.S. war - two years in - would have been judged a success or worth the cost?

Sure, some wars have been over in two years or less - the Mexican War and the Spanish-American War, for examples. Our active participation in World War I lasted less than two years. Were those worth the cost?

What about our "good wars" - the Revolutionary War, the Civil War (from the Northern perspective) and World War II? How were we doing two years in? Not very well, in any of them. You could make a case that we were losing them at that point (again, I'm taking the U.S. or Union side in the Civil War). In regard to the Revolutionary War and Civil War, there was significant opinion after two years that our leaders had led us into disastrous mistakes (I count those wars as starting in April 1775 and April 1861, respectively). World War II was seen as a necessary fight, but it was still unsure in December 1943 that it was going to turn out well.

Then there are the wars that might still divide us. By now, most Americans believe that the Vietnam War was misguided, but what about the Korean War? South Korea is a prosperous, democratic nation today, and a steadfast ally, rather than part of a starving Stalinist state run by a lunatic, because of U.S. (and other nations') military intervention after it was invaded and all but overrun by the North. But was that result worth the lives of 33,741 Americans killed in battle? What about World War I, which cost the lives of 53,401 Americans killed in action and led to a lull of only 21 years before an even bigger war?

Americans are arguing fiercely about the Iraq War, and public opinion is closely divided. Disagreement is natural and healthy. My point: It's too soon to draw conclusions, just as it would have been two years into previous wars.

Comments (15)

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Taxpayer said:

Just wondering why you haven't responded to Allen Johnson's question over at "Thinking Out Loud" concerning the state of High Point Schools.

As another long-time resident, I would be interested in hearing your take on what the future holds for these schools.

Are they where you would expect them to be?
How can they be "fixed"?
Does High Point need to take their schools back?

Please give us your insight.

Thanks

Doug said:

Thanks for your question.

I'll respond in a separate entry later today.

Andrew Clark said:

I am and have always been vehemently against the Iraqi war. I also think we need to be careful assuming causility between events in Lebanon and Egypt. Both situations have been building for some time. Lebanon especially has seemed near the boiling point as people have been openly demanded Syria leave for years now. Besides, the Lebanese seem to following the example of the Ukraine, not Iraq.

As far as other wars go, defending South Korea was worthwhile, but invading North Korea was not. That extended the war by over two years and cost tens of thousands of lives for absolutely no gain. There was nothing worthwhile about World War I since in truth there was little difference between the European powers (yes, there was democracy in France and Britain, but not for their millions of colonial subjects).

Now, the Civil War is an interesting case. It's amazing how neither side had a moral leg to stand on in that one. The South because of slavery, which whatever people may say was their reason for seceeding. The North was guilty because they did invade and slaughter thousands of innocent people to deny secession, which wasn't even prohibited by the Constitution. Some evidence suggests secession was assumed to be a right by the founding fathers. There was also an appalling lack of civil liberties in the North during the war. Ministers were even required to open church services with a prayer for Lincoln and it was the only time in our history habeas corpus was suspended. Ending slavery was of course as worthy a goal as there could be, but like democracy in Iraq, seems to have been added as an rationale later when the war became worse than people expected. I do think though that slavery and Saddam's regime both could have been ended peacefully, but it's impossible to know how much longer it would have taken.

At the time I can certainly understand why the American Revolution seemed worth it, but in hindsight Canada's path wasn't so bad and slavery would have ended here sooner, so it may not have been worthwhile. Having said that, it was such a momentus thing that who knows what the world would be like if it didn't happen.

The Mexican War and the Spanish-American War were both great sins of this country since they both were just about colonial expansion.

World War II despite my pacifist nature I think had to be done. Hitler had to be stopped, and the Japanese were doing horrible things too. However, if it hadn't been for 20 years on incompetence and/or isolationism among the US, Britain, and France in dealing with Germany, Japan, and Italy it may have been avoided. Not to mention the fact that the Allies created the conditions in Germany that allowed, or at least made it easier for, Hitler to come to power. Its necessity does not excuse the massive targeting of civilians we did in that war, however.

Doug said:

Andrew,

That may be more history than 98 percent of Americans understand. Thanks for your post.

Not a history buff said:

I hope that Andrew is a history teacher. Guilford County is hard up for good teachers. As long as he's not an ex-felon, he should apply. Great summaries! I enjoyed reading them.

Andrew said:

Thanks. Sorry to disappoint, but I'm an engineering and international studies major. I did have a couple of great history teachers at High Point Central, but unfortunately they are both gone now.

I did forget about the War of 1812. What I find funny about that was how most people in this country think we won. The reality is we only won one significant battle and it was after the war was officially over. I guess it is hard to admit that a bunch of Canadians burned the White House. I bet a lot of them think nostalgically about that event now...

NAHBuff said:

What kind of work would a dual engineering/international studies major want?

Just curious?

Andrew said:

Good question. At first I was hoping that the international studies degree would give me an edge in industries that are extremely global in nature, like the automotive industry. In the last few years though I've become much more interested in working in government or for a non-profit in humanitarian work. I'm also considering getting a Master's in International Science and Technology Policy (seems up my alley). Short term though, a few months after I graduate in May I'm going into the Peace Corps.

NAHbuff said:

WOW Andrew,

Good luck in all that you do. You have very lofty goals and I can foresee that many will benefit from whatever it is that you decide to do!

It would be nice for you to keep us up to date on what you're doing! What a nice way to see where the kids in High Point end up.

Now go out there are be a great role-model!

(Are you Doug's son?) Don't let that stop you from doint great things! Hee, hee!!

Doug said:

NAHbuff,

Thanks for your posts. I am proud to say that Andrew is my son - and he definitely has his own views. In fact, he usually out-thinks me without breaking a sweat.

He also plays trombone in the best pep band in the world

Andrew Clark said:

I appreciate it NAHbuff. And Rusty's right. I do play trombone in the best pep band in the world. He's our former drummer. See us on CBS tomorrow at noon. There will be some great basketball between our songs as Charlotte is taking on State.

mrproduce said:

For some reason folks think that today's war should be like instant coffee, instant potatoes and instant gratification. They forget, and our history major here will sure know, that our own revolution was not instant. They forget that France got involved in our war.(I believe that they did some fighting but they also were training our army to be able to stand alone. Sound familiar?) I believe they volunteered for that task after a little talk with Ben Franklin. (I believe some Iraqi folks had wanted us to get rid of Saddam for some time). There were a lot of folks in this country that thought France ought to just go on home (the Tories, who liked England and were profiting from that alliance). (Sounds sorta like some of Saddams buddies doesn't it?) I suppose a lot of folks were asking if our revolutionary war was worth it. No one really knew, even as late as 1812, if it was really worth it and even we weren't really sure.(There still seems to be a group of folks who aren't sure if it was worth it or not, but then they will never be sure of anything.) So I suppose we should wait and see and give the Iraqi people an opportunity to make this thing work. Then and only then will be know if this war was worth it.

Doug said:

Thanks, mrproduce. I think you answered succinctly some of the questions I raised and addressed the issues I was trying to frame.

Andrew Clark said:

Actually, mrproduce, the French involvement is an analogy I like to use arguing against the Iraq war. After the war started, the French did come in and lend us support. However, if before the revolution started France had invaded, overthrown the colonial government, and built our government, you think we would have anything like the pride in our country we do now? I don't really think so.

Most importantly, I do not think the results of this war are like instant coffee. I admit it's possible Iraq may end up forming a democracy. However, it's also possible that the long term consequences of the war are much more dire than we can think. I also think it's important to realize that history shows us again and again that even the most brutal dictators can get toppled peacefully. When that happens, the government usually becomes more stable and democratic than the one formed by a violent overthrow.

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