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Yeah Doug, provocation must be a bad thing. After all, Jesus was all for just getting by, right?

Help me out, Doug. You seem to dismiss Spong because he has moved away from Episcopal orthodoxy, and then make the logical leap of faith that there was a direct relationship between his tenure and membership in his diocese. I suppose his diocese was immune from all the social forces that influenced church membership during that period. But it's more fun to sneer, huh?

Every denomination has its internal critics, and Spong is part of that tradition. Criticism's a good thing, because too many denominations seek comfort over self-examination. The latter is much more challenging.

I would venture that his popularity has more to do with making religion accessible to those who feel shunned by the church. I don't agree with his theology, but I can appreciate his evangelism. That he speaks to those who might otherwise avoid religion altogether is a fine thing unless you believe a litmus test of orthodoxy (but which orthodoxy?) is more important. Judging from your tone, you do.

Doug,

Spong's book "Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism" should be required reading. Now, he has taken those monumentally important insights and taken them too far for my tastes, but his criticism of dogma and the mid 19th century worldview that has come to represent "fundamentalism" in American Christianity is dead on. Spong posits that the roots of current American "conservative" Christianity date back not to Christ, but to the dispensationalist millenialism represented in the Scofied Reference Bible. And he's got a very strong point there.

Spong's point(and the point of Bruce Bawer's similar "Stealing Jesus") that we need to consider the teachings of Jesus Christ apart from the superstructure that was built around him, and at least understand the political and ethnic conditions which gave rise to Pauline and Constantinian Christianity in much the same way as we should scrutinize the origin and motivation of those who now claim to speak for Christ and Christians.

I think Bishop Spong appreciates the critical approach to his own writings as well, and there is no shortage of criticism. But addressing his theology solely on the basis of how many people stayed comfortable with his teachings is, I think, a mistake.

John,

Thanks for your comments.

I hardly think the Episcopal Church (in which I grew up and was confirmed) needed to be rescued from fundamentalism. It does, however, hold certain fundamental beliefs, as expressed in its creeds. A church can't maintain much coherence if it doesn't. Spong's rejection of those fundamental beliefs no doubt caused a great deal of confusion among members. Certainly, I'm one former Episcopalian who would question the value of belonging to a church that doesn't seem to know what it believes. Its failure to correct Bishop Spong indicates to me an inevitably fatal weakness in the church. As for Spong, I think a more honest course would have been for him to leave a church with which he had such striking disagreements.

I don't think he was necessarily (at least in that book) speaking to Episcopalians. He pretty much took dead aim at what he considered to be "easy answer" Christianity, of whatever denomination. Again, he went too far for me, but not really in that book.

Have you read Bawer's book "Stealing Jesus"?

As we both know, churches change with their leadership. I guess that's the preacher's prerogative.

Spong should have left the Episcopal church a long time ago. But then he wouldn't have access to all of the media attention he currently enjoys as a member of the church leadership. When I read his "Ten Theses," all I could think of was L. Ron Hubbard ... just make something up and call it a religion. I believe he has forgotten he is just a tool for advancing the goals of the church, not the center of the church.

Thanks, Michael. I agree.

DFL,

I have not read that book.

Spong may not have been speaking to Episcopalians, but I imagine they listened acutely. Some undoubtedly decided, "One of us doesn't belong in this church. If he stays, I must be in the wrong place."

Well, the legacy of Spong is that I don't know many Episcopalians anymore; but I sure know a lot more Greek and Russian Orthodox than formerly - and they seem to be the Episcopalians I used to know.

Dispensationalist millenialism is technically a heresy because it nullifies the centrality of the sacrifice on the cross and makes God's actions dependent on the actions of human beings.

Spong has far more in common with the dispensationalist millenialists than he does with Christianity.

Well, the legacy of Spong is that I don't know many Episcopalians anymore; but I sure know a lot more Greek and Russian Orthodox than formerly - and they seem to be the Episcopalians I used to know.

Dispensationalist millenialism is technically a heresy because it nullifies the centrality of the sacrifice on the cross and makes God's actions dependent on the actions of human beings.

Spong has far more in common with the dispensationalist millenialists than he does with Christianity.

Well, the legacy of Spong is that I don't know many Episcopalians anymore; but I sure know a lot more Greek and Russian Orthodox than formerly - and they seem to be the Episcopalians I used to know.

Dispensationalist millenialism is technically a heresy because it nullifies the centrality of the sacrifice on the cross and makes God's actions dependent on the actions of human beings.

Spong has far more in common with the dispensationalist millenialists than he does with Christianity.

Well, the legacy of Spong is that I don't know many Episcopalians anymore; but I sure know a lot more Greek and Russian Orthodox than formerly - and they seem to be the Episcopalians I used to know.

Dispensationalist millenialism is technically a heresy because it nullifies the centrality of the sacrifice on the cross and makes God's actions dependent on the actions of human beings.

Spong has far more in common with the dispensationalist millenialists than he does with Christianity.

Thanks, YB, for adding to this ancient thread. It's interesting that Anglicans in Africa and elsewhere are trying so hard to save the Episcopal Church. I hope they'll succeed.