News-Record.com

Setting a good example for others. Hope many will do likewise!

Thanks, Mom.

I won't ride the bus every, day but I'll try to do my part by leaving the car at home once a week or so.

Doug, why not ride it everyday? This is exactly what you advocate our students do in High Point? Don't set a bad example for our students that have no choice but to take a long bus ride Aug. thru June. Unless you've changed your thinking on the High Point Busing Plan, I suggest you ride until at least June 7th or so.

LM, I believe families are free to provide private transportation for their kids if they prefer.

But Doug, what if your child could have walked 5 minutes to school everyday, rather than spend over 2 hours per day on a bus?

Aren't a pair of keds more environmentally friendly? Plus your child would get to do their reading every day at home instead of on a bus.

In your case, it was YOUR CHOICE to take the bus; in the case of over 100 kids from North High Point it is legalized child abduction that take place 180 times per year.

Doug,

I'm a little confused when you say that parents are free to provide private transportation for their displaced kids,if they prefer. What is your point? Why should they have to do that? Aren't we being asked to conserve gasoline, and isn't that the point of this blog? Why should parents have to exercise a preference to drive their kids to school? Your mom even said that you were setting a good example by not driving your car and conserving gasoline. Wouldn't it be preferable to have kids "walk" to school, much as many of us did in our youth? In the old days, when I grew up, everyone walked to school. The only kids that had to ride a school bus were those who lived in rural areas. As a matter of fact, one of my friends lived about 50 miles from school on a ranch. She had to get on the school bus every day well before dawn, and then arrive home well after dark. But, the point here is that she lived 50 miles from the closest school. Why do students that live within sight distance of a school have to endure the same torture every day riding a school bus that my friend did who lived 50 miles from school? Where is the wisdom in this?

Families are FREE to provide transportation!

Some families cannot because of work schedules.
What about those kids!!! Would you want your child on a bus for 1.5 each way.

The difference is you have a choice, Doug. These children do not!!!

I have a carload in my van every morning going to Central - - eleven miles from my home!! It infuriates me since there is a school in my back yard! And my neighborhood goes to Central!!!

How many Emerywood children are going to Southwest?

Folks, this wasn't intended to launch yet another exhaustive discussion of the High Point choice/lottery plan.

I happen to think it's good that all students in High Point have the chance to attend any of the city's three high schools. I hope in the future more students will be granted their first choice.

Folks, that sound you hear is crickets chirping as another N&R writer avoids the issue.

That's a very interesting selection of words that Mr. Clark has used.

"All students in High Point have a CHANCE to attend any of the city's three high schools."

What is wrong with a CHOICE to attend a school based on a student's family decision on where to live?

Or phrased another way, what is right about submitting a child's future to a chance at an education?

And no, no one wants to hear that all people do not have a choice of where they live.

Back to nature and those crickets.

CHIRPCHIRPCHIRPCHIRPCHIRP

Maybe the elementary school nearest your home is just right for your youngest child.

Maybe the middle school nearest your home is just right for your middle child.

Maybe the high school nearest your home isn't just right for your oldest child.

Do you move to another high school district and uproot the two younger kids?

Or is there some benefit to being able to choose from among three different high schools?

People in High Point obviously disagree about the answer to that question. Some, understandably, have been frustrated that they didn't get their first choice for their child.

I like the plan in concept. Again, I hope it can work better.

Doug,

"Or is there some benefit to being able to choose from among three different high schools?"

I think that many would agree with you on that point. Where some would disagree is whether they have been given a "choice".

If you believe that this is a good plan, and it offers all children choice of three high schools, I would ask you to do some research. What I would like for you to do is to determine over the last two "school assignments" how many students in each of the three school zones did not get their first choice of schools. In other words, provide us a list for Central, Andrews, and Southwest, how many students didn't get their first choice. I predict that you'll find that every Central area student got their first choice and that hundreds of Southwest students did not get their first choice. And, if this is true, then we really can't say that "choice" is what is taking place in High Point. It resembles force busing more than school choice.

You worded your last post very carefully, and I am impressed that you didn't say anything that wasn't true, but you avoided the whole truth.

"Some have been frustrated that their child didn't get their first choice for their child"? Do any of those frustrated people live in the Central attendance zone and their child does not attend Central? I didn't think so. I bet you can find some of them in the Southwest attendance zone, though.

If we want to talk about true open enrollment in the three schools in High Point, you would likely get much agreement from parents in High Point, but what we have now isn't about open enrollment. What we have in place right now is a plan to populate the schools with the correct diversity ratios, plain and simple. This plan was NEVER about school choice, and anyone that says that it was is either naive or a lier, or both. Go read the original BOE goals for this plan.

Hey busstop,

At $3+ per gallon, I don't think that Doug can honestly call that FREE, can he? Let's see, that's at least two gallons each way because you are traveling in stop and go traffic for five days a week. Unless my math fails me that's about 20 gallons per week at $3+ per gallon or $60. Over the course of a month, that's about $250 for gas for busing the kids to school. FREE, I don't think so. Heck, I can remember having a morgage payment on my first house that was less than that. Maybe with the lofty salary that Doug is paid as Executive Editor of the News-Record that is chump change, but I bet it is called a catastrophe in your house.

What part of this editorial had a dang thing to do with school buses or riding the bus to school. From what I read it was a description of getting to work on the bus, the time involved and the cost involved.
I appreciate the problems that the folks in HP have with schools but this was certainly not the forum to continue the rant and rave. Take it to the BOE. It certainly did not have a place here .
Now that's my opinion, take it or leave it.

Doug, your description of the bus ride shows the problems with basic public transportation in most towns and cities in NC. It takes forever to get anywhere and it really saves little money in the long run. Glad to hear that the professionalism of the drivers has improved. Most were haughty , arrogant and snarly to be nice about my descriptions when I lived there.

Mrproduce, your fruits & vegetables are rotting on the curb.

If little Dougie can twist words with his keyboard, why can't the readers of this site?

Everyone knows Mr. Clark's view on the schools in High Point, it is just a shame that he lacks the skillsets to make a sound argruement to defend his views on choice, or is it chance today? I don't blame him though, it's obvious he drank way too much of that Old High Point Kool-Aid.

mr. produce,

In the past, I have seen some very enlightened postings on your behalf, and I have been impressed by the logic in them, but in the case of your last post, you are ill-informed.

First, Mr. Clark has a history on the High Point Choice Plan preceding his arrival at the N-R. He was editor of the High Point Enterprise and as such he was a cheerleader for the implementation of the choice plan there. With that, he butted heads several times with people about the "intelligence" of implementing the choice plan. I'm sure that you are not aware of that history, but it does exist.

Second, the editorial didn't have anything to do about school buses originally, but it did have to do with riding buses and saving money and gasoline. It seems that was Mr. Clark's intent to suggest that he was setting a good example (as his mother commended him for doing) This is a tremendous issue as it involves our school system's fascination with busing kids all over the county - it's money out of your pocket. You should care.

Third, take it to the BOE? Surely, you jest. Do you think that this is the first time that this issue has been discussed? The BOE was painfully aware of how people feel about this plan, and they implemented it anyway. And the High Point BOE Reps stubbornly hang on to the plan like a dog to a steak, even though everyone realizes it was a mistake. They just shake their collective heads and say "No". There is no discussion anymore on this plan.

Now you understand why this is on this blog. I'm sorry if you don't like it, but there are a lot of things going on in this county that many people don't like, but no one is listening, hearing, or doing anything about. Mr. Clark keeps saying it's a good plan, but no one is buying it anymore.

Hey Stormy,

I have the numbers for Doug on placements.

Zones for students not getting first choice but receiving 2nd choice:

Andrews zone 26
Central Zone 16
Southwest Zone 107

The numbers don't lie. Only 16 kids from Central and 107 from SW. OUt of the 427 placement at Central: 107 came from SW zone and 256 came from Central zone and 79 from Andrew.

This is sound like a real choice to you, Doug?

Sorry Buckmtn. Your opinion is like anyone elses but regardless of what you feel concerning Mr. Clark's views it does not belong here and how you got anything about schools and bussing out of this letter is beyond me. Perhaps you have a much more vivid imagination than I. Regardless of Mr. Clarks views on the schools, he is not the one making the decisions as far as I can tell and from my experience it is not the newspapers nor the TV stations who make the decisions either. They may print an opinion one way or the other and as I said, Mr. Buckmtn, they are opinions and only that.not too distant future.

Oh and Buckmtn, why would my fruits and veggies be rotting on the curb? I would not be quick to hope or say that. You may be wishing you had some of those fruits and veggies in your local market in the not to distant future. :>)

I raise what I can and offer them for what they are worth. (:>)

I would offer one more piece of advice for those of you who seem to have so much anger. Anger is a very destructive emotion. It brings about physical illness, mental illness, early death, divorce, murder, addiction, accidents of all sorts and various other ailments that I could list.

I do wish all of you the best in the school situation as I have said in other blogs and other threads previously. I can offer both empathy and sympathy in regard to your situation. In my many assignments in many states, cities and foreign countries I have faced simular if not the same problems which you all are facing. I found that anger did nothing to alleviate the situation but in fact only made it worse. It does rub off on the kids,and on that you can bet your bottom dollar which in turn inhibits their best abilities to learn under the less than acceptable conditions. I found that my child learned regardless of the conditions and did very well with support and encouragement from home and not having to listen to "how bad the situation is/was".
Please forgive me for also straying from the subject but I felt the need to express what I know and have experienced. I hope that it helps.

I can understand your points Stormy and by the way I do appreciate the fact that you did not attack me in your reply. There is enough of that to go around. I do try not to.
On your point 1. Have you considered and perhaps you have as I have often looked at something and thought it just might work? I have on several occassions but after seeing the results over a period of time, my opinion changed. Perhaps Mr. Clarks has, I do not really know but I certainly will ask him. On that you can count. I am a bit more aware of Mr. Clark's time at the Enterprise than most would know. I did live in Jamestown for several years and I believe that Mr. Clark was at that paper during that period of my life, but then that is neither here nor there.
Point 2. Yes, I beleive Mr. Clark was attempting to make a point that given the situation on gasoline perhaps taking a bus was a better way of getting around for the time being. I still can not see how one can pervert that to anything to do with school bussing regardless of one's past or present opinions on the subject. So in that regard I must take issue that this was a proper forum to even hint that his editorial was in anyway connected with such.
Point 3. No I do not jest. Taking subjects to the point of authority over and over and over is never a jest. I have done it in my time over various issues. Did I always win? No but I won a lot more than I lost becaue of my ,as my momma called it" bullheadedness" hahahah.
If it helps any, I frankly think the plan stinks. The plan was not the same when I lived there however, Southwest had just been built or recently built and my daughter had to go there instead of just "around the corner" to Ragsdale. Of course it could have been worse, she could have been sent to Central or Andrews which were much farther away.
Hopefully those in power will see the error of their ways very soon and the situation resolved. However I do also hope that you all do not allow your anger to consume you and your children as I pointed out in my post to Buckmtn. Anger is a very destructive thing.

Mr. Produce,

The busing issue that Doug writes about is absolutely "pervert" to school issues. The amount of your tax dollars that are being wasted is what's at hand. And the amount of wasted fuel is a disgrace.

I'd give every tater and mater to know how much money would be saved by letting students WALK to their neighborhood school INSTEAD of being shipped across town. The system would save money, save gas, be more environmentally friendly and could probably even sell off a bus or two.

Thank you for your concern about us "angry" parents. Imagine how productive we could be if we could turn our anger into enthusiasm with our school system. It's a shame that our school board continues to turn a deaf ear to the view of the majority. They are surely missing out on the positive involvement of many. You're right when you say that it's the kids that suffer.

And just to think this could all go away with the actions of just six will people. It's shameful.

mr. produce,

Fair enough. "Of course, it could have been worse, she could have been sent to Andrews or Central which were much further away". Man, don't you understand that this is the point of the entire disussion? Southwest kids "are" being bused to Andrews and Central which is "much further away". That's the whole point!

Since you have won many battles with your bullheadedness and think that this one can be won with persistence, I'd like to recruit you to the team. We need someone like you who won't get angry nor take things lying down and direct his bullheadedness toward the BOE. Frankly, we need all of the help that we can get, because most of Greensboro doesn't really care (at least until it happens to them). Can I count on caling on you to join in the fight? You would be like a member emeritus since you already had experience of your daughter being shipped off to a school outside of her neighborhood. And as Bluto once remarked "Over, did you say over? Nothing is over until we say that it is."

Stormy I would have already been in that fight if I had continued to live in the area. Unfortunately in 99 I returned to the mountains to care for my elderly parents, both of whom passed soon afterwards. I had been retired from the Gov. for some time prior to that and I found no reason to return to the G'boro area.

I do however attempt in my writings to share some of the things I have experienced and how I handled them. Did I always do them right? No. Did I always learn from them? Yes. Did I learn much about fighting city hall or government? Oh yea, I learned well and bullheadedness, without anger or at least with anger used in a different manner other than directed at the enemy works. I found that when the enemy, in this case your's would be or is the BOE , see's you angry you have lost the first battle. You mentioned turning anger into enthusiasm. well it can be. Enthusiasm in presenting your arguments instead of in anger throws the enemy off and sets them up for the knock out punch.
I don't have all the answers but I do know that from all I have read on these blogs about the situation and how I have read all the anger that is pent up and being "shouted" at the BOE and others has done your cause little good. Try a different way, perhaps the way I suggested. If nothing else you won't be having ulcers, heart attacks and your kids will not be learning anger from you over something they have no control over.
I do appreciate your kindness in the approach you have taken to my words. Thank you.
an old soldier,mrp

mr. produce,

I can accept that. We have one point of departure in our thoughts. If you can't rise to anger when your children are being used and abused by government bureaucrats for their own purposes, just when can you get angry? In general, I would agree that pent-up anger is counterproductive, but in this case, these people need to know that they will never rest until this wrong is righted. They think that they can wait it out and things will blow over some day. But, they'll be like Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, always on the run, looking back, and saying "Who are those guys?".

Mr. Produce,

fyi, Enthusiam, logic, reason, hours of research and proof that a the plan would not work was tried over and over again. It got us NOWHERE. Now finally there is an inkling of hope and only because lawsuits (and not "nice" ones) are brewing. You can read about cases in Seattle and elsewhere in this country and it support the fact that you cannot bus for racial reasons. Busing for racial diversity is illegal. Also the Greensboro school board members choose to have diversity for High Point only. This is another legal avenue being pursued. "Nice" is over as it has gotten parents nowhere. It would be similar to beating your head on the same wall. Now the anger is channeled.

Now back to busing.....

There IS a major difference about Doug being on a public bus where he pays, he does not have to listen to cussing, fighting, see condoms being passed around, see kids bones being broken and the last, are you ready for this, a kid who bites kids and is in middle school. Now if this kid who was bitten tests positive for HIV, the schools will have much more to worry about than the price of gasoline. This is a true case; there is evidence in photos and witnesses and a history of similar incidences to other kids. (Also refer to last school board meeting and a counselor from the Northwest district spoke about some "nasty", "real nasty" happening on their kids' buses.)

I don't think Doug has to worry about getting bit on the way to work. So in this regard, you are right his bus ride has nothing to do with some of the hell that is forced on your children.

The sad part is, I heard the kid only got suspended from the bus for a week or so. She, yes I said "she", should be off permanently. This is not the first time. Needless to say, other channels are being pursued.

And Mr. P, thank you for you trying to understand why the HP Plan is so ridiculous and unfair. We wish you would come out and give a speech or two if you are ever in the area.

Amen to that Windy!!! I much rather go broke driving my child and some of my neighbors' children than having them endure all of the horrible things that happen on a school bus!! In fact, I even had a bus driver tell me that you don't want to put your child on a bus!!!

"I believe some families are free to provide private transportation if they prefer....."

WRONG: Some parents have to work for a living and cannot be 1 hour late so they can drive their kids

Other kids are FRL kids whose parents do not have transportation to drive them to school.

Hence the word "Public" schools.

Bottom line Doug..............you would not send your kids on a bus for the amount of time that the North High Point kids ride.

Just a reminder: The purpose of this post was to describe my experience riding the bus from High Point to Greensboro. I don't believe you'll find any self-contragulations or moralizing in it; it's a pretty straightforward account of one morning's experience, which might help others evaluate whether this commuting option could be viable for them.

I do happen to agree with those who say the steep rise in fuel prices also makes a difference in school transporation policies. We'll see how that plays out.

Assumptions about what I would or would not have done with my kids -- coming from anonymous commenters -- are way off base and out of line.

I will say this: My wife and I thought it was important for our kids to take the IB program. It happened to be offered at Central, where they would have gone anyway. If it had been at Andrews or Southwest, they would have gone there.

Windy, all the information that you have used that you say has got you no where is, if as you say lawsuits are coming, being put to use. As to anger rising up, I beleive I addressed the issue with anger and I don't believe I said that one should not be angry about the situation. I beleive however that the direction of the anger was understood.
When folks get angry and start name calling what does it do to the other side? It makes them even more stubborn and they look down on you as nothing but an angry mob to be dealt with as one would do with any mob. Put a stop in any way possible to them, ie , don't allow them to speak at meetings, limit the time to where speaking is so limited that it seems not worthwhile, leave the subject off the agenda, which I believe has been the schools best defense yet and it has worked ,yes.
So anger has to be directed in a manner to avoid this. Like I said early. If the enemy sees you angry then they can avoid what ever punches you throw because the punches are wildly thrown about. You learn not to show the "wild" anger but direct it in a very determined manner, and then hit em with a punch out of the blue when and where they least expect it.
Now, I again apoligize for straying off the subject but I hope that what I have said makes at least a bit of sense.
I have only attempted to play "devil's advocate" here on the original subject to get folks to see that attacking the editorial with a totally different forum (school bussing) accomplished nothing except it allowed you to become angry again. But then perhaps what I said did help and if it did then the misdirection was worth it.
Windy, I do come to G'boro to visit friends occassionaly. Perhaps something can be worked out for me to speak to your group . Ya never know.
I hope that all of you have a wonderful weekend. I celebrate our Joel's homecoming from Iraq Sunday along with his daughters first birthday. Now that is something to be glad and rejoice over.

Dang Doug, that's what I've been saying for two days now. Hahahah. Enjoy your weekend also and greetings to the family.

Now for your folks who would assume that Doug and I know each other that would be an incorrect assumption. We have never met and only know each other through these blogs and our closest connection is , I believe his sister who happens to live close by here in the WNC mountains. I have never met her either. So don't go getting your ire up 53over nothing.

I'm going to say one more thing on sending kids out of the neighborhood to school then shut up and go away. I am sure many of you will be glad. hahahha.

When I was in school back in the very early 50's in what would be considered a medium size city. I started first grade, which by the way was ony half day back then, at Stratton School. Stratton was located about 3 block away from where I lived and an easy walk. We walked because there were no city school buses in those days and a lot of folks didn't have cars either. Any how when I was starting the 4th grade there was a redistricting of schools, supposedly because of overcrowding. (We had anywhere from 23-28 kids in a class, one teacher, no aids and got along very well, thank you) I was transferred to North Side school which was a bit over a mile away. Again remember there were no buses for city schools. Well the school board did
manage to lease a city bus to pick us up at a central location, which was a couple of blocks over from where I lived. From there we road the bus to school. Now, the catch came in getting home. The school made sure we got there on time for school but getting home was pretty much up to us. Hence, we walked, no matter the weather, rain, snow, sleet, hot or cold. Again I remind most of you that folks didn't have cars or at least extra cars to run and pick up the kids when they had to walk home.
Parents were mad of course but they did manage to get a bus to take us to school and so there was not much worry about getting home. Most of our parents had walked to school , if they lived in town, the others rode the county bus or what was the plant shift bus to school , so they didn't worry much about us walking.

One other short story. When I started to high school it was located downtown which was not a bad walk for most kids or else they rode the city bus on a school pass. In 1960 a new high school was built on the North side of town which at that time was dang near out of the city limits. Again the only way to get to school was walk, ride with someone, (only seniors were allowed to drive to school in those days and one did not leave campus until school was out either), or ride the city bus on a school pass. For some this was a distance of well over 5 miles from Keystone to North Johnson City where the new school was built. We survived, did well, and in 1962 graduated,a good number went to college, a few went to the military, the rest got married and got jobs and for the most part we didn't suffer any long term traumas. with the exception perhaps of those whose girl friend or boy friend broke up with them right before the prom or graduation.

I hope that perhaps some of the humor of my story has helped some of you to laugh a bit and perhaps reflect back to what some recall as "the good ole days". Most of you aren't old enough to remember the days I spoke of but then you too have your "good ole days".

The point is, Schools have been redistricted for years now for various reasons, some good , some bad and for the most part most of us survived the ordeal. I am sure that your children will do the same with a little help from home if they don't get it from the BOE.

Blessings to all of you and may an inner peace reside in each of you this weekend and the coming weeks.

Mr. P,

You have made a lot of sense (first post) and I do see where you are coming from. Well put. Much better to play a "chess" game and much more interesting too.

I do remember the "good ol days" of walking to school, rain or snow and it was far. We all made it just fine. Everyone knew all their neighbors then. It wasn't a transcient, complicated society. You felt safe in your school and community....a different kind of world.

Enjoy your son and that grandbaby. Now that is a real blessing to be happy about.

I hope to see you speaking at a School Board meeting one day if you are up to it. But how will we all know it is "Mr Produce"?