News-Record.com

Doug:

There are so many more in Fantasia's boat than we know. Just go to any community college and sit in on a remedial or basic English class and you will be blown away by the lack of English skills and functional literacy that comes from our public school system.

Teaching to the tests in not the answer. Gone are the days when one could quit school and work in the mill. Until we get past the test craze and instill self-reliance back in our students, we will get more of the same.

I don't see it as any one community's problem, or a school's problem or a teacher's problem. It is the individual's problem to begin with. It becomes our problem when the lack of literacy (and might I mention, critical thinking skills)
leaves some over the age of 18 with no place in the new economy.

Jeff

And the road to "better" Doug, does not start with busing kids around High Point.

I'll say it till the day I die or the day the choice plan is gone, which ever comes first, that busing kids, swapping kids, trading --whatever is not the solution. If it truly were the answer, you would see giant Swap-Fests going on in every city in every state in every country.

I'd love it if we could get Fantasia herself to come to High Point to speak on the matter. I'd love to hear her speculations on how her life would have been had she been forced-bused over to "another" school deemed "more appropriate" for her. I predict that she would say the outcome would have been the same.

I don't want to be an "i told ya so" but I've been saying this all along. High Point is STILL failing its children. Whether the failing starts in Greensboro or in High Point, it doesnt' matter. It's GOING ON. And until we decide that our children are more important than Lazy-boys, futons and laminates it will keep going on.

The latest N&R defector must live in your end of town Doug....otherwise they would have canceled their subscription long before today!

Looks what happens when the N&R speaks the truth!

Folks, this has nothing to do with the choice plan. Too many kids are way behind the day they begin school, or even preschool, and fall further back every year unless extraordinary efforts are made to teach them. We have "neighborhood" schools at the elementary level, and the challenges at some of those schools, where virtually every child is considered economically disadvantaged, are overwhelming. We need smaller class sizes, more not fewer teacher assistants, tutors and maybe extended school years or at least summer enrichment programs to help them.

DOUG HELLO! This have EVERYTHING to do with the choice plan! My God!!!!!! We are spending MILLIONS on this plan and the money should be going to the very things you mention!! NOT BUSING!!!!!! I feel like I'm beating my head on the wall!

I agree with DAH!!!!!! Why does no one get this?
Busing students does not work. Educating children by providing resources, seasoned teachers, teachers assistants, and experienced leaders, principals and mentors at the school site does work.

Doug,

I agree with you that the education challenges of many of these children begin when they begin elementary school, or even before. But, my guess is that GCS is doing nothing more now to address that problem than they were when Fantasia started to school. Frankly, I don't think that Terry Grier or any of his highly-paid central office staff know how to address this problem, although if you asked, they would tell you that it's because the don't have enough money. And, that would be bogus. They have a wealth of money, they just can't or won't use it effectively.

On the other hand, it is about the choice plan. Terry Grier and the BOE implemented the choice plan and lottery last year on the mistaken belief that they can "fix" all of the problems that you stated by mixing the classes at the high school level. That's the very essence of the lottery. They believe that economic integration beginning in the 9th grade will solve the problem. And, you so correctly stated above that is way too late. This is what posters to your blog and the Chalkboard have been saying for more than one year. You can't have a lottery to racially mix children at the high school level and make-up for all of the things that didn't happen in the previous 8 years. So, the lottery is a joke. It'll never "fix" anything for those children that aren't learning. It's continuance only represents false hope for the children of High Point.

So, let's disband the lottery, stop wasting all of those milllions of dollars on a failed experiment, and put the money to use at the elementary school level, reducing class sizes, hiring more teachers assistants, and devoting the necessary resources to those children that need it.

Doug, this makes too much sense to everyone so it won't happen. Dot Kearns and Susan Mendenhall have falsely convinced everyone that the choice plan and lottery will solve these very problems that have existed in High Point for decades. They must have the lottery and choice plan so that they can show that they are doing something proactive to improve the schools in High Point. You don't see the county and Greensboro representatives jumping to implement the plan in their districts, do you? They know that this plan is folly, but they are letting Dot and Susan have their way, because without it, the good citizens of High Point would be on their doorsteps demanding that they do something about what is not happening with education in that city. The longer that the lottery/choice plan is held on to, the longer it will be before any real solution gets implemented.

Doug, knowing what you know and what you have said here, I am surprised that you still hold onto the notion that the lottery/choice plan is good for High Point. Why don't you take on a leadership role in High Point to rid it of the lottery and demand that the money be used properly to help those children when they are in elementary school? Perhaps, that could benefit the next generation of Fantasia's to become literate and educated, and not have to depend upon the slim chance of a great singing voice to ensure their life success.

Doug said, "We need smaller class sizes, more not fewer teacher assistants, tutors and maybe extended school years or at least summer enrichment programs to help them."

Finally, something we ALL agree on. Now call up Dot and Susan and enlighten them.

Hey Doug,

You stated it yourself that these kids need to learn how to read in elementary school. Well, if these kids don't learn how to read, which apparently happens quite often, how does the choice plan help them in high school? These kids need to be idenified early by teachers, and parents need to take responsibility and work with the school to help their child become successful.

The problem is that alot of these young people who are in these remedial programs think they will be another Fantasia! I had Fantasia's cousin in my class, and he seem to think that he didn't need school because he had talent. Well that may be so, but as Fantasia stated she signed her life away because she couldn't read the contracts. Also, She was EXTREMELY lucky. She needs to come out and tell people they need to know how to read and to make sure their children learn as well or they will be singing themselves to continued poverty.

The choice plan has never been about education. The reasons are everything Stormy said and more.

Originally it was promoted as equity for all schools and to reduce overcrowding at Southwest. Crowding has NOT been reduced at Southwest. The last set of ridulous proposals, the swapping plan and the very, very tiny attendence zone around Andrews plan did not reduce overcrowding.

The extra space at Andrews could be use for smaller classrooms and mentors' and counselors' offices if it was about education.

The "equity" part is working. All three schools are becoming equally bad. Look at all the test scores. Look at the suspension rates.

Look, look, look.

When do you say enough is enough, enough, enough?

I watched at TV interview with Fantasia the other day, and she stated EMPHATICALLY that she COULD read, she just couldn't read very well. Big words intimidate her, she said. And that she was improving her reading all the time.
I think the story of her being failed by the system is a bit overblown, but improvements can always be made to our education system.

JayCee,

She also said she couldn't read books to her 4 year old. I doubt these books contain "big words".

Doug,
do live over by Dot Kearns by chance?
You have the same ideas i.e.living in the past and determined to spite the folks in N.High Point!

I suppose that I went to school in a very much different day and time than most of you. It is a given that I am older than most of those posting on here because my child is grown, through school, graduated, married and with children of her own. The rest of my kids were grown when I got them thankfully hahaha.
I hear that what we need is smaller classes, more aides , more money etc. While all these things are all well and good in an ideal school they are not the things that are needed. I didn't have teacher aides in my classes, it was usually one teacher and 26 -28 kids and we learned to read in the little reading circles at the front of the room. The rest of the kids answered the questions on the hand out the teacher had given them after they finished their reading circle or they colored pictures having to do with the reading lesson or read the next page for tomorrow. That wouldn't happen in most schools today because the kids would be so disturbing that the teacher could not teach the rest due to lack of discipline at home and in schools.
My daughter attended schools where there were seldom the ideal classes that many seem to think are necessary for learning, the 13-18 kids load with an aide for every 4 or 5. Her classes for the most part were like mine 26 kids give or take a few. She learned to read. The reason she learned in part is that I took the time to read to her from birth until the time she found my reading a bit boring. As single parent for early part of her school years it was not easy to balance my work, which often called me away for days and even weeks at a time.In those times she was given into the care of nanny's or occassionaly a family, who did not often have a great command of the English language , but she learned to read.
Throwing money at problems does not work as most of you all have already testified to. Spending money wisely will not happen until people are made accountable for spending vs results. Teaching to the test will not teach kids how to read nor will it reach the desired results or is so only for a brief moment in that childs life and then they struggle for life is not taught to the test. There are many variables in life and that type of teachings does not prepare your kids for real life.
Accountability begins at home, and I am sure many of you try, so please don't think I am saying you don't. I am saying many don't understand this but it is the first step. Accountablility then moves to the next layer, teachers, then to principals, then to the higher levels. Each level must be equally accountable for any system to work. When one layer fails it weakens the rest. When more than one layer fails the system can fall and crumble. Even out of crumbled ruins can rise success. Parents, hold children accountable, then hold their teachers accountable. They in turn will hold principals accountable because they do not wish to be the fall guys in the chain and you can put the pressure on. Principals certainly don't want to be the fall guy because they get fired easily so they will find a way to dig at the top and hold them accountable. When the top fails as it often does, it seems as if it takes and eternity to remove it but it can be moved. A call for accountablilty from bottom to top will eventually move it. Yes, it will seem that the kids are being beaten up during the process but again parents, you are accountable to them and they to you. And in spite of all if this section of the layers stays intact, kids will learn, not only to read but to prosper even in the leanest of times.
Thank you for listening. I love kids and I love to see kids learn and they can and they will and they must.

Bravo, Mr. P!

Well put.

I toO learned to read and many other wonderful things with at least 40 or more in a classroom, no teacher's aid. But another time as you have stated and Catholic school. Classes were also separated around 6th grade by levels of ability and any discipline problems where simply not allowed into junior high. If you were a major trouble maker, you simply were not admitted to junior high. So it was very different from our public school then and even much more different than our public schools today.

But "ACCOUNTABILITY" says it all. You sound like you were a very dedicated parent.

Barbara Ann. I am glad you brought up the subject of how those who did not want to learn in a conventional setting were dealt with. In the public school systems I attended there were always, or so it seems, some who did not wish to or would not learn such subjects as English, Literature, Geography etc. These individuals were offered an alternative to regular school,it was vocational school.
Now vocational school in those days was not just a school for 8th and 9th graders or high school age boys. It was a city run school offering a variety of vocational classes for veterans returning from service who lacked skills for employment or wished to learn new ones. Some of these men were from WW2 and others from Korean War vets. These guys did not put up with a lot of stuff so the young boys who opted for vocational school were suddendly cast into a world of discipline, routine, and order and it was well enforced by these older men. If a youngster wanted to stay, he had to decide if he was willing to give up his non conforming ways of disturbing others etc and get with the program. If they decided to push the boundries with these older guys, they had a tough row to hoe. Those who accepted the change went on to learn a vocation and got well paying jobs. Those who didn't want to change, well, some wound up in jail, some dead, and some doing the dregs
of work in most abhorant conditions and places.
Was it fair? I am not to say, but I know it worked for so many that would have sat in a classroom , learned nothing, disrupted and not allowed learning for others either until they aged out or until they were permenantaly expelled.
Yep, schools today are in many ways different, but in so many other ways they are simular because kids have choices to make. They make good ones or bad ones and a lot of it has to do with the level of accountability that they were held to. Consequenses of no accountability are at best terrible.
Thanks for your kindness. The reason I was able to parent is because I had parents who held me accountable and set boundries and were not afraid to allow me to face the consequences of poor choices. I simply mirrored what I had seen. There is where parental accountibility comes in. You children will become what you are, for they learn by what they see and what they hear and that will continue to the next generation. It's the ripple effect and only a change of course will disrupt the ribble effect.

Mr. P,

It is about making choices. The sad thing is if you ignore bad behavior, kids today consider this as acceptable behavior if there are no consequences so they continue with these same patterns. If they are not taught right from wrong at home, or don't have capable parents to guide them where do they learn this? If they desire attention, bad behavior definitely gets attention.
But this does not help the rest of the kids sitting in class who want to learn. And it does not help the teachers who want to teach.

There seems to be a lot lacking in our schools in being "honest" when a kid is not doing as he should. So much emphasis is put on hurting one's feelings rather than acknowledging the problem and helping to work on acceptable solutions together.

By hiding the problems/challenges that exist in our schools, whether it be dealing with bad behavior, or teaching a child who might need a little more help and not just granting social passes, we are not helping kids.

Fantasia "made it" out of her world. But what about the other kids who have no desire to learn and just keep repeating the same patterns of bad choices?

Barbara Ann: the other kids who have no desire to learn and just keep repeating the same patterns of bad choices?

Those were the kids I spoke of who wound up in jail, dead, or living in the dregs of the social order.
There have always been those who will not rise above where they came from and even some may sink lower.
It is about choices. We can love them, we can try to instill some value in them, yes we can even pray for them but Barbara, they will make their choice. They were given that ability by their Creator, some call it free will, call it what you will, but no one can decide anothers choice for them. We only try to lead, and guide and that is all we can do.

Are these actually bots, Doug, or do people really hang out on your blog waiting for you to mention something they can tangentially tie to the school assignment policy?

Imagine what would happen if all that time was donated to a PTA....

See John, we DO spend an exceptional amount of time at OUR schools. It just too bad that nobody from YOUR school is doing the same. If they were, you wouldn't need OUR kids to fix your school.

Nice one UNEEDUS and unfortunately we are at his schools helping because he and his alike cannot be bothered!

I live in Raleigh now. And my kid is 4. I volunteered at his preschool last week. but thanks for your (once again) incorrect assumptions about me.

Mr. Burns, your posts are so full assumptions about the people who are complaining here. You basically think we are self-centered bigots who don’t care about anyone else.
In fact we are normal caring parents, hard working honest people trying to get our children back to the local school that is yards away instead of being forced to attend a school ten miles away. Try having to that especially when your other two children are in the local school.
My child will not solve the problems of Central.
So we have to fight this wherever we can! Posting here is just simple a democratic right we have. People will not stop posting and complaining here until this dies. It will happen again next year when the next bunch of reassignments comes out. The problem at SW is getting worse. Instead of reducing the numbers the SW intake for the 9th grade hade gone through the roof. It’s a half-baked plan and that is the end of it.

All this has been said before and you were not sympathetic. You have your assumptions stuck in your mind. If you cant take the heat get out of the kitchen but if you want to stay and argue more you are most welcome. It fuels the fire even more!

John,

We've found that some people post comments on the blogs under several different "names," reinforcing their own comments and creating the appearance of greater numbers. Thanks for having the courage to comment over your own name.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!
-/-

Doug,
If i would've seen this article appear the day it was written i would not have called mad at you or your comments about the schools failing Fantasia but i wouldve commented, as i am now, about Fantasia failing High Point, MISERABLY

Have you read this book, it should be in the fiction section she calls High Point, Poor, impoverished, depressing and a slew of other things. I think it's a travesty that Mayor Smothers gave Fantasia a key to the city.

Yes she sings beautifully but she talks about our city like some gutter whore. At a time when we are in an all out war over the furniture market all eyes need to be on High Point North Carolina, and our spokesperson is slamming us!

On page 159 in her book she says "...The Usual High Point Dramas: girls, pregnancies, not workin, bein lazy, bein messy, drinkin, smokin and not going to school..." lets put that on our next tourism flyer!

How about on Page 210 where she says and I Quote

"High Point is a depressing place for anyone who is not a furniture store owner..." I dont own a furniture store and i am the happiest i've ever been.

29 years old, i live in a modest sized house that I own, i was able to start my American Dream in the town dumped by the American Idol. Fantasia has really let me down.

Kyle Sandler
kyle@fantasiaslies.com