News-Record.com

Remember the High Point leaders saying "they don't handle schools" or something like that "that is the county - not city"? Let's see if they will finally try to use their influence that they could have used all along with the IT Plan.

It sounds to me like the report is stating the schools in GCS have a lot of work to do if kids are to survive once they graduate.

It will be interesting to see if the City actually does anything with this data.

My child was a transplant from SW region to central this year so I have been there a few times already.
Its startling to see the childrens work on the walls outside of the 9th grade building classrooms. Its SHOCKING! Can't the teachers correct grammar/spelling as they are doing their work? No because the best teachers are teaching my daughter with the privelidged "few".
Its easy for me to see that Central has been geared up for the "few" over the last few years. The Emorywood crowd get their kids in the IB program. Go off to Duke and Wake . The rest; well you can see from the study what happens to them. As for my daughter. She is being taught with the Emory crowd.
Busing her down there won't change anything except in the minds of Susan and Dot. All they have done is divided out the problem between the HP schools.
They need to really address it instead of hiding behind fake programs that only end up being for the "few" (the sons and daughters of their friends and families).

Now it all makes sense to me. Thinking about it. If a child ends up in ninth grade and he cant read and right the system must be looking at fixing it at elementary and middle levels instead of trying to hide it away and diluting it at HS level.

What does anyone think?

I think if you walk around a lot of GSO elementary schools you can see better work on the walls than HP Central..

How does the system let that pass?

Some kids can't READ or WRITE at the elementary levels either. I have seen papers in middle schools on the wall with horrible spelling and grammar too. Kids just think a calculator and spell check on a computer will take care of them.

It just doesn't work that way.

What I don't understand with the Gateways in place, I thought that was to help kids to learn what they need to know before they move on.

Of course, if we are teaching the EOG tests in early grades, and also teaching them to ignore spelling so we don't hurt their self-esteem and teachers don't give back corrected papers, how can we expect them to actually think on their own.

Then again with so must testing, record keeping and reading programs that change all the time, and assistants not there to help with some of the clerical tasks, and teachers having to discipline all the time, and having to deal with kids they can't remove from the classroom, it is not an easy task to actually be able to TEACH.

It's not just a High Point problem. I would refer you back to my Nov. 3 entry, "Guilford County students and UNC performance." Students from our BEST high school, Northwest, don't perform as well their first year in the UNC system as the AVERAGE for Wake County. On the whole, Guilford County students are below the state average on UNC freshman performance measures. I drew that conclusion from numbers registered for the high school Class of 2003, the most recent available on the UNC system Web site. That represents some of our brightest kids.

Doug, any comment on the first two entries on the strand?

Doug,

Although it appears that the problems in High Point schools are more severe, you are right that the problem is systemwide. This report is quite an indictment of the quality of schools in Guilford County, and I am glad that you and others are now acknowledging it.

It's interestng that we are now seeing outside perspectives that tell us how poor the quality of the county school district really is. (Remember that Newsweek reported that all 14 high schools ranked in the top 4% of all high schools countrywide?) This is especially so after we have been told by members of the BOE that great progress is being made under the tutelage of our progressive and innovative superintendent. I suppose that progressive and innovative don't translate into results. As a matter of fact, now that the BOE is setting performance goals for Grier, do you think that they might set some that actually address the abominal state of the schools, or will they just set fluff goals that justify giving him a salary increase?

The 1999 McKinsey Report reported that the image of the poor state of county schools would be a major inhibitor to economic development in the county, and this report reinforces that as a major problem. Six years have now passed, and if anything, the schools are worse now than they were then. Maybe now is the time for new leadership in the central office and school board? We have one of the highest-paid superintendents in the state and one of the worst-performing school districts. Perhaps, it is a good time for Terry Grier to pursue one of those jobs in Wake County or Charlotte before the news gets out about how bad the situation really is here.

One other thought that occurs to me about the High Point schools. When Dot Kearns, Susan Mendenhall, and Terry Grier slammed the choice plan/lottery into place, they promised High Point that the three high schools would be transformed into "world class schools". We now see that was just an illusion. They knew that they never could do that, even after spending millions. The three great myths; The Tooth Fairy, The Easter Bunny, and World Class Schools for High Point.

Fantasia told the truth about High Point schools, and it is still the truth.

Key word (as Stormy said): RESULTS

Second point: What do the High Point leaders intend to do about it?

Second key word: ACTION?

There - onE of my shortest blogs ever.

No red herrings here Doug. This has nothing to do with Northwest. I'd be very happy if my children went there only I cant afford a house in that region so I am stuck with NHP and Central.

noherrings,

Actually, there are still some reasonably-priced housing remaining in Northwest. It is a misconception that everything there is pricey. Of course, the time to have made a purchase in the Northwesr probably was optimal about one or two years ago. Now that development of the infrastructure is occurring, people are finding the area desirable. And, of course, the implementation of the school lottery in North High Point diminished that as a viable option for many people with school-age children. Parents just don't want to have to deal with that mess, even if they have to pay a little premium to live where things are more sane. They also wrongly believed that the school board would actually do something positive about the over-crowding problem there, but that seems to have been a mirage. But, even if bad comes to worse, the Northwest parents actually have a board representative that they believe in and who works for their childrens' best interests, counter to what has occurred in North High Point. And, counter to Doug's comments about Northwest, the overall quality of instruction and the learning process is much better than in High Point.

I'm not throwing out NW as a red herring. The point is that, by some important measures, what we regard as our best schools don't measure up to Wake County. So let's find out what Wake County is doing that we ought to be doing. Southwest, by the same measures, was about average for all N.C. high schools, if that. This was for the Class of 2003, before the choice plan was implemented.

I hope the numbers have improved since then -- and they should because of the school system's emphasis on putting more kids into AP courses.

IB at Central, by the way, is not just for the privileged. I met a young woman there last week who's part of the Communities in Schools program and is also pursuing an IB diploma. IB isn't exclusive. The problems are 1) that more students aren't sufficiently prepared to do well in IB or AP; and 2) that students can get good grades in less challenging courses and get into college, giving them the sometimes false impression that they're ready to handle a college curriculum.

Every kid who wants to go to college should take at least some AP or IB courses. If they don't want to tackle that challenge, how can they expect to succeed at the next level?

Since NC had mostly manufacturing jobs in the last few decades, people were able to get these jobs without reading and writing well.

Now that we are moving towards a global economy, not effectively educatng people for decades is finally catching up. We have adults out there reading as low as second grade level. These people have worked in manufacturing jobs all their lives and have no place to go when their job goes overseas.

GTCC has an Adult Basic Skills program in which enrollment has increased dramatically over the last couple of years. The problem needs to be attacked from both ends - teach the adults who are illiteratue and make sure the kids go into middle with strong basic skills.

For too long the Ol boyz of High Point have been happy with low educated workers in their factories. The school board along with Dot and Susan conspired to keep it that way. The richer got richer the poorer stayed poor.
Now with the changing times this is not good enough of course.
Who's to blame. Big business, Emorywood...You know who!
The dog bites back!

Doug,

I glad to see now that we have some independent judgement on the lack of quality of Guilford County Schools, you are acknowledging we have a problem. Admitting that you have a problem is always the first step to recovery.

But, if Newsweek declared that all 14 of our traditional high schools rank in the top 4% of the U.S., how could there be a problem? Terry Grier and the school board have been touting that ranking for several months, and now this? What gives?

Who are we going to believe? We are promised world class schools in High Point. Dot Kearns and Terry Grier said we would when we spent all of that money on the choice plan. We are spending $1/2 billion this year on our schools. Where is the problem, and if there is a problem, who will we hold accountable? Will we hold anyone accountable? So many questions, so few answers.

Doug,

You want to know what Wake is doing differently? They're eliminating the people that put their lottery plan in place a couple of years before North High Point's forced busing. They realized busing for diversity (even economic diversity) did NOTHING to help the kids that needed the most help! Most were voted out of office this past election and the superintendent resigned soon thereafter. (There's hope in 2006 for NHP!)

Also, Wake's demographics are much different than Guilford County's. Too bad Grier couldn't bus their kids here! More osmosis learning opportunities would produce smarter kids in Guilford County!

Here's a unique idea .... let's do what's necessary to solve the problem at the source of the problem!

Tim, I'm not following the logic. The question is what Wake has been doing to get good results these last several years and your answer is that they got rid of their school board this month and their superintendent just resigned.

I'd also like to know how isolating poor, minority and immigrant kids in certain schools is good, especially when it's demonstrated that those schools also have the least experienced and effective teachers and lack parental support.
There is no learning-by-osmosis theory, but perhaps struggling students can learn better if they have better teachers and are in an environment where learning is expected and encouraged.

Doug,

I would like to think that learning is encouraged and expected in ALL of our schools. Are you saying that Andrews and Central did not have great teachers before the IT Plan? I have heard quite the opposite.

As for parental support - can't help you there. That is up to the PARENTS of children to be accountable for their kids.

Many teachers had left Andrews because the discipline problems had not been dealt with. Also, they keep putting rookie principals in there. Now we hear there is a "freeze" on teachers leaving.

You can't wait until high school when kids can't read or don't know their multiplication tables and expect to throw them in A/P classes and even just Albegra. There are good teachers in all of our schools. You cannot continue social passing and just create more A/P classes.

The solution lies in sorting out the individual needs, smaller classrooms, not trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, more vo-tech training for kids who do not desire to go to college or won't cut it but still need to find jobs (refer to the mayor's latest Workforce Preparedness Study in HP). The solution lies in Alternative Schools and Middle Colleges for kids who do not want to be in a traditional high school environment.

The solution lies in supporting and BACKING our teachers and improving the morale by listening to their concerns. If you remember the teacher surveys, salaries was not their top concern. They want to be valued and listened to and be able to TEACH.

If you just shift certain problems, it just moves the problems. If disruptive students are just put back in the classroom, the rest of the class suffers. You have just compounded the problems.

Also forcing $500,000 of racial healing seminars on certain schools does not help the teachers' morale. We have great teachers who help all children learn. We have great volunteers who tutor all children. This has only caused resentment among teachers and is wasting tax payers money that could be spent on much needed classroom dollars. When there are paper shortages, kids don't have batteries for school calculators and come kids don't have textbooks (and not the "poor" school either), how does one justify $500,000 on training by questionable ministries?

Interesting letter to the editor today from a Greensboro mom regarding what has happened at Kiser recently and about the steady decline of our schools.

Kiser is a good example of shifting kids and other problems that can result. I am sure we will continue to see more challenging issues as more schools become "opt out" schools under NCLB.

Doug,

You were confused regarding Tim Mann's post about Wake County and how they achieved their success. Here's an article that explains that success. Maybe those "good results" weren't so astounding after all. Perhaps parents and taxpayers have become are starting to hold school superintendents and school boards accountable for what they aren't getting done. Maybe that will happen in our own lifetime?

Poverty Can’t Be an Excuse

Wake County officials are
basking in the glow of
national recognition, fueling
an already contentious debate
over how to educate poor children.
Recently, The New York Times ran a
story linking the achievement
of Wake County’s
poor minority students to
the system’s “economic
integration” policy.
Since 2000, the
county has used income
as a significant factor in
student assignment, striving
to limit each school’s
low-income population to
no more than 40 percent
of the total. And test
scores have gone up. But
does the new policy really
deserve all the credit?
A closer look at the data
reveals little support for a link between
the assignment program and
student performance. The New York
Times article failed even to compare
Wake County’s achievement scores
with state gains. In fact, test scores
for poor children have gone up
across the entire state.
In 2004-05, 68.8 percent of
poor Wake students were proficient;
the state average was a close
68.3 percent. Mecklenburg County
— which serves a much greater
concentration of poor students
than Wake (42.3 percent compared
to 26.5 percent) — had 63 percent
of its students at proficient levels.
Wake County also neglected to
track the five-year performance of
the demographic subgroup directly
affected by integration — the 3,000
students who were actually reassigned.
Clearly, observation of these
students would yield the most
definitive feedback on the success
or failure of economic integration.
Paradoxically, while Wake
County’s average household
income, median house value, and
number of families above poverty
level are all up, the public school
population is becoming less affluent.
Before the program’s implementation,
seven schools had more
than 40 percent poor students; 23
schools now reflect this percentage
of poor children. What’s going on?
Families with the means to exercise
school choice are doing so, and in
droves: The percentage of children
leaving the public school system
increased this year in Wake County,
and, it is suspected, the increase
was greater in the more affluent
suburbs.
Yet, Wake County School
Superintendent Bill McNeal said,
“I can’t let choice erode our ability
to provide quality programs and
quality teaching.” Surely McNeal
must know that many families with
the financial resources are already
exercising choice, confounding his
ability to manipulate
the demographics of his
school district.
But it is true that
schools with large percentages
of poor students
tend toward low
student achievement.
Why? Part of the problem
is that poor families
usually have few options
when it comes to compensating
for weak curriculum
and instruction.
Unlike affluent
families, poor students
are generally trapped in failing
schools. And yes, poverty (and all
of its attendant problems) does
present weighty obstacles for
faculty and teachers to overcome.
But it is irresponsible to suggest
that poverty causes student failure,
or that schools are helpless to turn
around low achievement.
In Mecklenburg County, poor
students make up at least threefourths
of the student body at 34
schools. At Highland Renaissance
Academy, recently profiled by the
Charlotte Observer, nine out of 10
students are poor and nonwhite.
Five years ago, Highland Renaissance
was the lowest-scoring
elementary school in the district.
Last year, 92 percent of the
school’s fifth-grade students scored
at proficient levels in math, while
88 percent were proficient readers.
What’s the secret? The common denominator
is commitment — Principal
Jenell Bovis and a group of
teachers share a “missionary” zeal
for students.
There’s no question that poverty
presents hurdles for educators.
But many schools such as Highland
Renaissance are challenging the
idea of economic determinism. Yes,
disadvantaged students have special
needs, but the solution is not a
contrived demographic utopia.
Rather, we must expect to
work harder, applying what we
learn from schools on the front
lines. And we must give families
— not county officials — the freedom
to make choices about where
children go to school. CJ
Lindalyn Kakadelis is director of
the North Carolina Education Alliance.

Doug,

If the main problem with the education in HP is that some kids are isolated in poor schools with crappy teachers and no parental support making it impossible for them to learn, who is doing anything about it?

You seem to agree with Dot and Susan that the only solution lies in the Southwest kids.

Couldn't our super-superintendent help a little? How about our ALL-STATE board representative? And when will the Central families step up to help? Some Emerywood kids being forced to attend school at Andrews would do as much for that school as the 14 year old SW kids are expected to do for Central.

I see everyday what MY neighbors are being forced to do to help. What are YOUR neighbors doing?

Stormy, I don't think the UNC numbers portray any contrived or phony success. They tell me that the 2,310 Wake County public high school graduates from the class of 2003 who went on to UNC institutions were much better prepared, on average, than were the 1,465 graduates from Guilford County Schools. I think this is a really key number: percentage who earned at least a 2.0 GPA and 30 credit hours after one year in college -- Wake, 46.5; Guilford, 29.2. Is that why Wake voters were smart to get rid of their school board?

Step up,

My immediate neighbors don't live in Emerywood.

That said, I see a lot of Emerywood resident doing a lot in many ways to help our schools, through tutoring, mentoring and supporting organizations such as Communities in Schools, which the workforce study cited as an effective example of community involvement.

I have tutored students at Central, Ferndale, Union Hill and Oak Hill, as have hundreds of other High Pointers, including a very large representation from the Emerywood area. Churches and businesses have partnered with the schools to provide support and services.

Nevertheless, we still lag far behind and need the entire city to get involved in supporting all our schools.

Doug, the only way shuffing kids by redistricting or lottery would ever be successful is if the system were closed ended. ie: no students would ever be allowed to leave. People would not be allowed to move to a non-engineered district or go to private school. As was said before, Central High has been a model for the last thirty years of a successful integrated school, in fact you could almost use it as the ideal of people working together in all the North Carolina. It can't be sustained!!!!Dot still had to go fishing for more "wealthy" kids because wealthier Emerywood people attrited and decided to go private, they couldn't be held captive. The same will happen when you go dragging other schools into the mix. You're just going to make people move, changing neighborhoods, forcing people to go private. The net effect will be you will constantly chase your tail, prevent any sustaining tradition or loyalty and fracture and demoralize the citizenry and you're going to end up at the county line wondering hwere all the "rich" kids went!

Your point about poor children trapped in hopeless schools can happen, if the powers that be let it!!!But forced social engineeering, while having the potential for some short term modest benefit, is unsustainable over the long term and therefore not worth the cost paid to accomplish it and in the long run is actually couterproductive.

You can't force people into utopia.

Doug,

You gave great examples of what the "adults" in your area are doing. I know that adults in North High Point are doing some of the same things.

But what can your 14 year olds do for the overall success of the High Point Schools. Put the burden on their shoulders for a while and ship their rich, white butts to Andrews.

For every SW kid that is sent to Central there should be a Central kid shipped to Andrews. Then we might be able to buy into the lottery concept.

Doug,

You mention tutoring at Central, Ferndale, etc. and the Emorywood people helping. Tutoring and helping at any school is great. People should be commended. Have these same people gone to Andrews to help and tutor? If so, I am curious, were they welcomed?

While certain people have chosen to play the "race" card for the sake of b.s. p.r. to make the folks at SW look bad and not address the real issues of the IT plan....these same parents and many from Florence who don't even have high schoolers, did call Andrews on several occasions to volunteer when Ms. Carr was there.

These same SW parents where turned away - not once, but several times. Before the vote on Black Tuesday, we had a team of about 25 parents or so ready to go into Andrews to help. This was also told to certain school board members who still voted for the IT Plan, knowing this. It wasn't necessary to cause all this turmoil in our community and spending all this money. There were, and still are, other ways to solve educational problems. The first responsbility lies with the school board and the administration. This is their job. This is what they are paid to do or elected to do. The "volunteers" are the "gravy for the potatoes".
The extra effort.

If a school does not accept "help" or volunteers from outsiders; is only told to report the "good" news to the newspapers and no fights (and does not deal with the problem); and a member of the school board just recently questioned WHO did the plan for Andrews' School Improvement Plan (which by the way the answer was "parents"); if the real problems are not addressed; or if when they are addressed, there are continual questions as to who came up with the solutions; and when Title I funds are removed to avoid an Opt Out situation....how will the school ever hope to improve?

The SW kids are NOT the solution and should not continued to be used as such. As someone mentioned, it is just as easy to ship some kids from Central's IB Program over to Andrews if anyone REALLY, TRULY believes this is the reason for the IT Plan. We all know what the real reasons are.

And as many have said, no one has been able to answer this question - NO ONE - "What educational benefit to date has come from the IT Plan?"

And if everyone believes this is the magic bullet, then the IT Plan should go countywide.

I understand the former principal at Andrews was a disaster.

I think the commitment to support a school increases if your kids are attending that school.

If the IB program had been offered at Andrews instead of Central, my kids would have gone there.

Overall, however, the quality of academic programs isn't satisfactory at any of High Point's high schools, and hasn't been for a long time.

Doug, just curious. You say the education in ANY of the high schools in High Point is sub-standard and "has been for a long time"? Why in god's name then would you support Dot Kearns, who's been on the schoolboard for the last 12 years and is the "incumbent of the incumbents",when under her stewardship, more than any other of the members, this has happened, and you support keeping her there in spite of there being viable, politically experienced, fiscally knowledgeable people who wanted a chance to change things, and you obstructed them????? This is nutso!!!!

Doug,

Definitely agree with your last comment. The quality of education at all three schools needs improving.

You are right about the commitment to support a school if your kid goes there. However, this is one main problem with the IT Plan. If students are moved out of their community, some parents do not have the transportation means to get them to after school activities, sports, etc. (Remember last SB meeting over the fuss to have graduation in Greensboro for Central and Andrews.)

Some parents whose kids got transported by the IT Plan may have a kid at Central, SW Middle and Florence. It is very difficult to do all this scheduling and driving and also with the price of gas, very costly.

And as I said previously, the main responsibility to educate our children, no matter what school they attend, falls back on the GCS.

Doug,

We do not disagree that Wake County schools are performing better than Guilford County schools. I just disagree with the assumption that it is attributed to its economic integration policy. That may be a contributing factor, but that there isn't sufficient data to prove that claim. The fact that Wake County school graduates are better prepared than Guilford County grads may be atributable to other factors.

The learning by osmosis theory that Tim Mann mentioned comes from GCS's original reliance upon Richard Kahlenberg's theory of scoioeconomic school integration expoused in 2001. In that theory, Kahlenberg stated that busing to achieve racial integration had run its course as a large majority of both white and black parents were opposed to forced busing to achieve racial balance. Parents wanted better schools. He concluded that class was the controlling factor, not race. This led him to theory that children of poverty would fare the best if they were in a majority middle class school. It was this theory that was cited by GCS when they implemented the choice plan/lottery in High Point high schools.

Kahlenberg advanced the idea of school choice as the ultimate answer to the problem of economically desegregated schools. GCS jumped on this band wagon with the choice plan. Kahlenberg did offer teh following caveat about installing a successful choice plan:

"The third lesson is to give educational incentives for middle-class families to buy in to integrated schools. It is important to offer middle-class families something in return, a reason to venture beyond local schools, whether that be smaller class size or an emphasis on the arts. We should capitalize on the common-sense notion that in education one size doesn't fit all. "

Thus, GCS's promise of "world class schools" in High Point. They would successfully socioeconomically integegrate the three schools by having a choice plan that would allow parents to freely select their childrens' schools from three world class magnet schools, and the result would be three successful middle class majority schools.

Even if you accept that theory as valid and workable, the problem is that GCS failed to deliver educational incentives to the middle class families so that they would buy-in to the concept. Those world class schools have never happened, and they don't appear to be in the offing for years to come. Thus, what has evolved over the past 1 1/2 years is just a forced busing program for Southwest students. There is no choice plan that provides edcuational benefits for Southwest parents, and that is why there is bitter resistance to this plan. Even if the concept was workable, the faulty implementation destroyed any chance of it ever working.

And, in the end, we are moving toward three dysfunctional high schools in High Point where there was at least one. The only accomplishment of the plan/lottery after almost two years is that Southwest's performance is deteriorating to the level of Andrews and Central.

Finally, as you noted, the overall performance of GCS is slipping, and parents are exercising choice for their children by sending them to private schools. Who will be held accountable for this sorry result? Will Terry Grier, Dot Kearns, and Susdan Mendenhall ever be held to account? In all likelihood, Tery Grier will fel th eheat and take another job somewhere, Susan Mendenhall won't run for re-election, and Dot Kearns will remain the Queen of Denial, never admitting that this whole episode is a total disaster. I suppose that she'll be fine as long as she has the support of the Central parents.

Hillary and Dot in 2008 !!!!!!!

Hey,,,Anything to get her out of Guilford County.

Thanks for the humor. This topic was getting too serious.

Doug,

You never answered. Can the 14 year olds in NHP solve the problems uncovered by the Workforce Preparedness study?

Go ahead and admit it...a lottery for children should not be the best and only plan in place to solve the problems in our schools. Remember, that is what Susan said when she made the motion. "It's not the BEST plan but it's the only one we've got." Two years later, it's still the only one they've got. Just say it. IT IS NOT FAIR!

You say that your area has put in many hours volunteering in the schools. I say that my area has too. This has been going on for years. It's not working! Our school board should find somebody that has a track record of improving schools and replace Terry the Turkey. He has no clue about where to go from here.

You think it was getting too serious for you? Try living it everyday. We all need a little humor.

Speaking of which, does anybody know how the Christmas decorations are coming? Can somebody please put up a little something in Doug's honor? Nothing too nasty. He only has a wee little sense of humor and calling somebody a "turkey" is over the line.

Doug,

In order to follow my logic one must look back at Wake's history. We are shooting at their recent numbers as a GOAL.. Wake views their recent numbers as a FAILURE. One thing that differentiates them, is that their voters don't sit on their hands. They take action quickly to keep them on a track focused on excellence. GCS's focus is focused on trying not to fail. Two significantly different mindsets. Two significantly different results.

I have offered sound, basic solutions that should be taken by this school's administration. As of this writing I (and several others that have done the same) continue to be just a "bunch of angry, white parents from North High Point". Pretty soon, we'll all just stop offering to help. That Doug, would be a shame!

Point of clarification on my prior post.

Wake's #'s that GCS is aspiring to, is actually a decline from their previous highs. That's why they're getting rid of the lottery and their superintendent!

When you keep aiming low, you're bound to hit your foot!