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Shush, Doug. You make too much sense. Our public schools have become a sacred cow, not to be messed with. Of course, the reason that we won't give vouchers for private schools is because they would make out public schools like bad in comparison, and we can't have that, can we?

Private schools do a better job of education at a lower cost, so that is a threat that we can't allow. If we can get a child educated with a $5,000 voucher, that would save the taxpayers more than $2,000 per year per child that it costs in the county public schools. We can't have that because then everyone would want one, and who would be left to go to the public schools? We just couldn't have that, could we? What would we do with all of those empty school buildings? Turn them into Big Lot stores?

No, let's just not go there. It would cause too many problems.

Before anyone blasts me for blaming our teachers for horrid results in the public schools, let me say that they aren't the problem. The vast majority of our public school teachers are committed and hard-working, but the system often stands in their path. Take those public school teachers out of this inefficient and ineffective system, put them into an efficient and effective private school, and they would succeed.

Why not vouchers for k-12 religious schools?

State as well as Federal funds are available as grants and loans to students in colleges and universities whose purpose is ministerial training as long as the institution has acquired accreditation from a regional organization that is recognized by the Department of Education.

The force behind keeping State funds away from k-12 private schools and more specifically those of a religious persuasion is as a result of the power of the teacher unions, plain and simple. In many respects, these interest groups limit the educational opportunities for our kids.

Jon is right. It is the NEA (national Eduction Association) keeping the vouchers out of families hands. I can't speak for today but when I was teaching it was just this side of mandatory that we hand over a nice chuck of change for our yearly dues so they could hire lobbyist. And of course they represent the administrators and not the classroom teachers.

Jon, the North Carolina Legislative Tuition Grant program excludes students "enrolled in a program of study the objective of which is the attainment of a degree in theology, divinity, or religious education or in any other program that is designed primarily for career preparation in a religious vocation."

Doug, once again, you take a curious stance considering your past editorial support for de-constructing certain public schools in High Point that were succesful on the grounds that there weren't enough of a certain type of child there, and now your saying they may get a better education in private school anyway. So you are in essense saying; if it's working, let's screw it up, and, hey, so what if it's gets screwed up, it may be better off if kid's went to private schools anyway.

With thinking like this going on by you and other supposedly responsible thinking members of the community, it's no wonder at all why private education is the biggest growth industry in High Point.

The fact is, there is no down side to destroying public education in High Point. Many of the people who support isolated-to-High Point forced busing, sit on the boards of private schools in High Point. Many of the powerful realty interests, both actually on the schoolboard and those behind-the-scenes choice plan supporters, have extensive land holdings in Davidson Co. that have tripled in value since Post-Dot people have begun fleeing High Point for Davidson Co.

They win either way. So a few hundred north High Point families lose, BIG DEAL.

...and all during this time I thought my family and I were living in the Bible Belt. I can't believe that North Carolinians ever allowed that exclusion to be ratified.

So, student grants for institutions of religious higher education (minsterial, religious education, etc.) are not allowed in North Carolina, as they are in Ohio?

I'm for making the public schools stronger and hoped the choice plan would have accomplished that. I'm also for giving families of modest income more options, like those wealthier families have.

Savage, you continue to make your allegations that choice plan supporters acted for personal financial gain. I think that's slanderous.

Bible Belt today could be some other belt tomorrow. I wouldn't want public funds going to a radical Islamic training school.

Doug, you're saying Dot had no vested financial (property value) interest in trying to demographically rehab Central High via the CP? She owns a home and sells real estate in Emerywood. If all white students flee Emerywood for Westchester Acad. or Davidson Co., as has in fact taken and is continuing to take place, and Central High becomes a High Point version of Dudley, this won't have any effect on Emerywood property values? You think the Emerywood moms where supporting Dot at the forums out of altruism?

Doug, if you're happy in your make-believe world I would be the last person who would want to disturb your mid-summer night's dream. You keep on believing. Keep that head on the pillow.

I'm not dreaming that many people believe it's good for High Point, in fact necessary, for the city to have three decent high schools. I'm sure not so cynical as to believe that no one takes a position on public issues for any reason other than personal financial gain. People who think that way are often projecting their own character onto others.

Doug,

As a newspaper editor, I am surprised, yea shocked, that you do not have an understanding of the work "slanderous". If anything, Skeet's words would be considered libel, unless, of course, you heard him/her speaking them. On the other hand, to be proven as slander or libel, you would have to offer undeniable proof that the words were false, which you probably can't do. There's a body of information out there that suggests that what Skeet says is substanially factual.

Doug, how could anybody dealing with the GC schoolboard become cynical?

I wasn't implying anybody got a cash payout for supporting High Point forced busing, unless, of course, you're talking about Deena Hayes, whom Dot and Mendenhall got to support forced busing in High Point through their approval of the Hayes Household Improvement Project ( via their approval of the augmented no-bid contract awards which found their way to Deena's roomate's company.)

Cynical? Not me.

When the idea for the Choice Plan surfaced Dot (the Realtor) admitted that she could no longer sell houses in Emerywood because of the schools and that everybody wanted to buy houses in North High Point.

That's quite a credible comment from an anonymous writer. Funny that houses were being bought and sold in Emerywood all the time.

Skeet,

Does that Hayes Household Improvement Program have anything to do with the new Lexus that Deena is driving these days? I wasn't aware that school board members made that much money.

One can only speculate, Stormy. Don't get me wrong. If a politician can engineer a sham corporation to perform sham contracts for real taxpayer dollars and have those dollars find their way back under their own roof, more power to them. It's been going on since day #1 and will go on until endtimes. JUST LEAVE PEOPLE'S KIDS OUT OF THE EQUATION!!!!

Doug..I've talked to Dot about what she said. At the time, she wasn't denying it. There's no question that she said it but will she remember it?

It's kinda like when somebody at a meeting quoted her as saying "The most important things to families looking for homes are schools and a sense of community." You could immediately see Dot shaking her head and denying the comment but it was published in a Realtor magazine!!

You should not be on a school board when you are 92 years old.

Our daughter is in private school and I do not want the $5,000 voucher if it comes with any strings attached.

Government money with no strings attached?

Doug,

In today's WSF on the editorial page is an opinion piece titled, "Remedial Education" which details the efforts by a group of families in New Jersey who are filing a class action lawsuit seeking remedy for "..60,000 children trapped in failing schools-by transferring control over education funds from bureaucrats to parents."

I was stunned to read that in the Newark school system $16,351 is spent per student, teachers on the average earn $76,213, yet fewer than half of the students demonstrate basic proficieny in math or language arts.

One other particular item I found of interest is that the Federal Individuals with Disabilities Education Act as a result of a Supreme Court ruling, provides that any disabled student who fails to receive an "appropriate education" in a school system may receive funds from that system to attend a private school. Apparently, Pres. Bush failed to include this provision in his famous NCLB legislation which gives students the option of leaving a failing school and transferring to a better performing school in the district. As a result of NCLB's lack of a private school option, only around 1% of students in a failing school have taken advantage of this act.

The three prominent New Jersey groups supporting the families who are seeking to bring action on this matter are, a Black minister's group, a Latino alliance, and a group called the Excellent Education for Everyone.

I hope they succeed.

Thanks for the info, Jon. That will be a very interesting case to watch.

Exactly, keep the government out of the private schools. Deploy my tax dollars elsewhere.

Or the private school could raise tuition by $5,000, making the voucher worthless at the end of the day. I don't care as long as the government stays out.

Buck,

Agreed. That's the whole reason private schools work --because the goverment is staying away....well that and because Terry Grier can't touch 'em either.

Of all the checks I write each month, none is so satisfying then writing my tuition check--even in the summer.

God Bless America!

Buckmtn,

In order to keep govt funds out of private schools, am I correct that you are suggesting that raising the private tuition costs out of reach of the inner city families ability to educate their child with govt funds in other than a failing school is your idea of dealing with the problem of failing schools. Sounds sort of insensitive in my mind and furthermore seems like a plan to keep other less fortunate kids from having the opportunity to get an education in a private setting.

Surely, that's not what you're proposing, or is it?

I don't think the govt, especially State, is completely absent from oversight of private schools. I would think that in order to educate children, minimum teaching as well as other standards are required to remain in operation.

Yes, there are standards to remain in operation. The private school our daughter attends had its seniors accepted at 5 different campuses of the UNC system this past year as well as colleges from New York (I think) through South Carolina.

My point is I do not want the quality of the education dumbed down and I do not want safety of the students and teachers compromised.

I believe most private schools have scholarships available for situations such on Jon is mentioning. I know the one our daughter attends has the scholarships.

The sociologists/economist Warren and Tayagi (The Two-Income Trap) make a strong case for using vouchers that specifically allow transfer between PUBLIC schools, even across counties. The problem with allowing vouchers for private religious schools is and will always be the First Amendment prohibition on sany state-sancitioned religious persuasion.

That said, I am personally in favor of the public-school-voucher idea, and would send my child to a good school in Wake County (after moving, say, to Alamance). Or just live in a less-expensive part of Guildford County and send my child to Grimsley or Northwest. Yeah, there's the travel issue, but I went to a high school 12 miles from home in CT and it was good enough to get me into a very respectable college. Most parents, themselves, commute close to an hour a day or more here and up to 1 and a half hours each way back where I grew up.