News-Record.com

Doug, there are some things about 9/11 that don't make a lot of sense. (see today's Enterprise) There are many structural engineers that also calculate that the liklihood of both WTC towers spontaneoulsy imploding like they did from plane strikes from different angles is astronomical against. There have been engineers that have also expressed strong doubt that the Pentagon damage is consistent with an airplane and is much more likely a Cruise missle.

Obviously, the thought of someone being diabolical enough to stage something like this is too shocking to contemplate.

I know how you feel Doug. So sad. Being progressive is all well and good for the church press, but being diabolical as this action is makes me wonder if the promise of the end of days in Revelations that tells us the church will become the enemies of God may just be coming true. Sometimes I am more frightened of those we were taught to trust and revere more than I am of the open enemies.

We saw the planes going into the World Trade Center. And were all those cell phone calls to family's faked too. Now about the two towers coming down as they did what is to say the terrorist hadn't planted explosives? Our society is so free and open that we not only let these thugs in but we welcome them as we do all people.

Brenda it seems that the theorist don't take into consideration that when the the planes did explode on impact there was also a tremendous amount of fuel in the auxillery tanks that exploded by reason of the fire. Now this is one heck of an explosion for anyone that has never seen a plane explode after catching on fire and certainly one that could make the towers implode as they are saying. Not apt to happen on the ground but in the confined space that the planes were in it is feasible.
As for the nonsense on the Pentagon not being hit by a plane . Tell that to those who survived the hit and now have pieces of the plane as evidence and as a monument that they are still alive.

Doug, Just another reason that I left the Presbyterian Church. The skid to the far left began in the mid ninties and has continued at a faster pace than anyone ever dreamed. What a pity the conservative membership and leadership has caved in to the whacko's and extremist.
Those who began to split off several years ago were indeed wise not to stay around and be saddled with this obvious nonsense. With these that have split perhaps there is still a chance the Presbyterian Church will survive and return again to it's biblical roots.

Crackpots are going to write books. * Doug

Sorry Doug! But the cat is out of the bag on this one. The 9/11 movement is hugh and there is more holes in this one than JFK and the Lincoln thing. When somebody explains to me why WT 7 fell due to more secret ghost airplanes flying into it. Than I will become a non-believer and anti-conspiracy nutcase like you!

The amount of fuel and size of planes were the key issue the buildings collapsed. The terrorists purposely planned to hijack inter-continental Boeing 767s which were bound for the west coast and were each loaded with plenty of fuel.

If the Presbyterian leaders aren't careful, they may find themselves caretakers of real estate instead of souls.

Doug, believe it or not, we used to attend liberal churches. I personally experienced how conflicted you must be feeling.

I think if I were a Presbyterian, I would be looking at the PCA or ARP.

I've never believed in any conspiracy behind the 9/11 attacks but...it is hard to explain the WTC 7 building collapsing when there were only 2 small fires in the building. It was a 47 story building!

And while I'm at it - it does seem odd that certain airplane parts that should have been recovered weren't but one of the terrorist pilots' passport was.

OK. That's all. I'm finished.

I know of no evidence that the administration planned or caused 9/11. (At the same time, it worked so hard opposing a real investigation that it created space and air for conspiracy theories to flourish.)

I wish the publisher had chosen to publish something different, but I don't think its decision says anything meaningful about the PCUSA as a whole.

Jon you are correct on the statement about the airplanes being full of fuel and that the terrorist picked this type of plane.
Never 100%, there were no "just"small fires, only large ones, if you witnessed the event.
Jet fuel has a high flash point but burns intensely. It can melt steel into puddles. I witnessed a KC-135 crash at Kadena AB in early 67. The plane is used to refuel other planes and thus carries a tremendous amount of fuel. On takeoff, due to the unusual high humidity it took the entire runway for the plane to take off. Unfortunately it was not high enough to clear the 12ft fence at the end of the runway. There was a "jeepney" on the road just over the fence. The KC crashed , hitting the "jeepney" and barely missing another truck on the same road. In the aftermath there was little or no signs of the "jeepney" nor the truck. The fence was totally melted for yards within the crash scene. The highway was a pool of tar and dirt for several hundred feet in both directions. There was little to recover of the KC from the wings back.No human remains were recovered from the plane, the jeepney or the truck. Only a small amount of cockpit was recognizable. That is just how hot jet fuel can get. It could and probably did(according to reports from fire fighting personnel) get hot enough to melt steel beams within the Towers.

get hot enough to melt steel beams within the Towers.* Mr Produce

Right! The fuel was able to pour all the way down the 100 stories and melt the foundation steel in 1 hour.

Thanks for the interesting comments. I'm intrigued by the cruise missile hitting Pentagon theory. So there's a missing plane somewhere. Are the passengers and crew in the witness protection program?

No connie, no one said that. It was however hot enough to melt the steel on the floor(s) where the crash occured. The remainder of the steel heated as the fire spread, which it did, if you watched the incident on TV thus weakening the infrastructure and causing the collapse. I had never seen a building of that size collapse during a fire but I had seen lesser size ones crumble and fall due to the fire weakening the infrastructure

Yea, Doug all the passengers and crew are stashed in a secret prison somewhere in the Middle East. Or perhaps they were transported by an alien space ship to another planet. Oh, and the airplane, well the aliens just vaporized it perhaps or maybe it was sold to the nut case in Venezuela or Connie bought it to transport Madame Justice around the country campaigning.

Well anyhow you know it would make sense to Connie and others who are, well let us say ,a bit loopy and who believe such bull as the "US did it" theory.

Are the passengers and crew in the witness protection program?* Doug

You got me Doug! Have you view the vistor list at Gito lately or the CIA plane landing at the Johnston County Airport to pick up new passengers for those secret dentention centers in Eastern Eurpore.

Well anyhow you know it would make sense to Connie and others who are, well let us say ,a bit loopy and who believe such bull as the "US did it" theory.* Mr Produce

So you belong to one of those anti-conspiracy alien lizard historial groups, who said Julius Caesar was never knife in the Roman Senate, but died of a massive heart attack when he saw the reduction of the military Legion budget for the coming year?

Doug,

"I'm not being partisan, either. I haven't read any books claiming FDR knew about the Pearl Harbor attack but let it happen because he was eager for the U.S. to get into war against Japan and Germany -- at the time the world's two greatest military powers." (Doug)

Try, "At Dawn We Slept" by Gordon Prange and "Day of Deceit: The Truth About FDR And Pearl Harbour" by Robert Stinnett. While you may or may not subscibe to conspiracy theories around the 9/11 events, Pearl Harbour, the sinking of the Lusitania or even as far back as the Maine in Havana Harbour, there are often disturbing and conflicting details which should be open for reasoned thought and discussion and not just dismissed out of hand.

BTB

It would seem that there could be little doubt that two airplanes were flown into the WTC Towers. I think that there is sufficient evidence to show that occurred. There are tens of thousands of people to give witness to that. Without regard to any speculation regarding how the towers collapsed, the mere matter of planes being flown into the towers should be sufficient to raise out concerns about teh terrorists. It really wouldn't have been necessary to have a controlled demolition of the towers. The horror created by the planes would have been more than sufficient for the normal person.

If is atonishing to me that any normal person could ever conceive that a leader of this country would be diabolical enough to engineer such a dastardly deed on its own people, much less publicly express it. Only nutcases need to apply.

mrproduce-

there were indeed "just" small fires in WTC-7 (building number seven!). This building was unharmed by an airplane and had only minor fires on the 7th (seventh!) and 12th (twelfth!) floors yet the building collapsed in less than 10 seconds with no jet fuel involved.

No fires had previously or since 9/11 caused a high rise building to collapse, much less into its own footprint.

Demolition companies could save lots of money on explosives if they only knew that setting a fire in a building would have the same effect as explosives.

I'm with Stormy. What the heck would be the point of knocking down WTC 7 after the towers had already collapsed?

Also, because Osama and the 9/11 terrorists began their planning before GWB took office, I suppose Bill Clinton must have been in on the conspiracy, too.

How did Oliver Stone miss this story line?

From an article I read:

"Why would the killers destroy WTC-7, especially since a collapse would arouse suspicion in some quarters? A logical if unproven theory is that the perpetrators used Mayor Giuliani’s sealed OEM "bunker" on the 23d story of WTC-7 to conduct the twin tower implosions and then destroyed the building and evidence to cover up their crimes, just as a murderer might set his victim’s dwelling ablaze to cover up the crime (one in four fires is arson). Giuliani’s "undisclosed secret location" was perfect because it had been evacuated by 9:45 a.m. on 9/11, it enabled unmolested work, provided a ringside seat, was bullet- and bomb-resistant, had its own secure air and water supply, and could withstand winds of 160 mph, necessary protection from the wind blasts generated by collapsing skyscrapers."

I understand the "unproven" part of that theory -- absolutely everything -- but what's "logical" about it?

Isn't that true with all "conspiracy theories"???

Doug, I share your concern about the direction of some of the leadership of the Presbyterian Church. In a recent article in the Wall Street Journal entitled "Turn Left at the Presbyterian Church" Jim Roberts said "Not only are a handful of church leaders taking positions that are highly unpopular in the pews, they are doing so with heavy-handed, top-down measures, actions that run contrary to long-honored traditions...My denomination once revered as an icon of socially progressive thinking, is now tainted by perceptions of anti-Semitism and naive support of Islamic terrorists" He was referrring to the 2004 decision "to initiate a process of phased selective divestment in multinational corportations operation in Israel" (this topic came befor the most recent General Assembly and, as you know, was voted down. It still concerns me that our "leaders" would want to use our contributions to support terrorists and makes me wonder if there is any accountability within our church.
Ralph

Thanks, Ralph. The issue of divestment from Israel worried me. I sat in on a discussion of the subject at a Presbytery meeting a few months ago and was happy to hear that the GA did not take action.

I suppose Bill Clinton must have been in on the conspiracy, too.

How did Oliver Stone miss this story line?* Doug

Ah Oliver has always been close to the conspiracy action and poor Slick has always been left out of the big stuff. Remember it was Slick upon being elected after his first week in office,who ask for all the stuff on UFO's. All he got was a note from the CIA that said see the coming Independent Day movie in 1996.

Doug! Did you really believe all that stuff about Iraq having tons of WMD's and were the dudes that drop the WTC according to Bush and our CIA and NSA?

Do you really believe that our Government kept us from learning about Area 51 for 50 years and still denies that it exsists to this day?

Connie bought it to transport Madame Justice around the country campaigning.

Well anyhow you know it would make sense to Connie and others who are, well let us say ,a bit loopy and who believe such bull as the "US did it" theory.*
mrproduce

mr produce! If no conspiracy exists, than why are you beating your brains out saying conspiracies don't exist in history? As to campaigning, Madame Justice has a campaign Van with a transporter to "bean" up you up mr produce should you really get close to .......

http://911review.org/

Doug,
you need to do some more research before you write a piece like this. I suggest going to the site Scholars for 9/11 truth, www.st911.org, or Veterans for 9/11 truth to start. Or you are more than welcome to attend one of the weekly meetings of NC 9/11 Truth, www.nc911truth.blogspot.com

I am a member of all those organizations and I have an engineering degree. Look at the data and decide for yourself. It's actually pretty overwhelming that 9/11 was an inside job.

There's even a Republican congressman who sees the truth about 9/11. Curt Weldon, (PA 7th) has publicly praised a 9/11 truth video. And not just any 9/11 truth video, but the one by BYU physics professor Steven E. Jones which accuses the Bush administration of deliberately allowing 9/11 to happen and placing explosives in the three tallest World Trade Center buildings to make sure that they would be totally destroyed on 9/11. Unbelievable? Just have a look here:

http://republican.meetup.com/92/boards/view/viewthread?thread=1870074

The 9/11 truth video that opened Rep. Weldon's eyes can be seen here:
http://www.911blogger.com/2006/02/dr-steven-jones-utah-seminar-video.html

A bombshell from the FBI: The Muckraker Report spoke with Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI. When asked why there is no mention of 9/11 on Bin Laden’s Most Wanted web page, Tomb said, “The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden’s Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.”
For details, see http://www.teamliberty.net/id267.html

Funny that Curt Weldon makes no mention of the 9/11 inside job theory on the homeland security page of his Web site:

http://www.curtweldon.org/ontheissues/index.cfm?ID=19

Doug, Sen. John McCain hasn't updated his website for quite a while either. Just look at his events section. Curt Weldon would have good reason to "forget" to update his website because if he included his views on 9/11 it would cause his GOP campaign contributions to dry up.

So, Curt Weldon is trying to keep his Bush-did-it views a secret (no doubt because he'd be chased out of office by his constituents), but you know about them. That really makes sense.

Doug, for most Americans its hard to grasp the concept of what happened on 9/11. But looking at the facts, you can only come to one conclusion that the Bush government committed this atrocity. I think that all citizens of this great nation of ours need to push our elected officials to impeach him and send him to jail before he does something else.

I guess the Brits just foiled Bush's latest attempted terrorist attack.

And the Canadians blocked a terrorist plot earlier this summer. Bush was going to blow up targets in Toronto and Ottawa.

Bush also blew up the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in '98, the Cole in 2000, and don't forget the Marine barracks in Beirut back in '83.

And he killed JFK.

And Lincoln.

After changing his name from Benedict Arnold.

Doug, why don't you contact Rep. Weldon's office and see if he denies making the comments he made at that town hall meeting?

Why don't I? How about because I don't have the time or the interest to run down conspiracy theory leads.

Doug, I did find someone who is interested in verifying the truth about Rep. Weldon, namely one of Weldon's neighbors. I posted the Weldon story in a physics forum and it happened that one of the readers is Weldon's neighbor and he said he'd personally investigate (look for the post by "soundhertz"):
http://forum.physorg.com/index.php?s=f7d51fd7ba13c9bdf51dabfc822e601b&showtopic=8250

Ralph..Doug,

The direction of the PCUSA is most defintely anti-semetic. First the disinvestment thing..but more worrisome is the fact that church leaders keep meeting with Hezbollah. Disturbing ! Their interference in labor management disputes is also annoying.. re the Taco Bell boycott. Yo quiero Taco Bell !!