News-Record.com

Too bad the college will have to pay a price for sticking to its principles.* Doug

Well the NCAA political correct image committe is thinking about going after Liberty University logo. That's Brother Jerry F dream about going big time in College sports against the Pope's fighting Irish team in South Bend. It appears that Jerry has secretly adopted the ancient Knight's Templar's secret symbol on the chin strap of the team helmets with the brokeback mountain Templar symbol.

Let me tell you from personal experience the futility of fighting with insane people, possessed of power, who think they are on a politically correct mission from god, no matter how absurd. The W&M people could change their symbol from feathers to rocks and still have the US Geological Society complain to the NCAA and say they were exploiting rocks.

All sports teams should change their name to the Nulls. Thye would then be differentiated by numbers like Nulls #246 and Nulls #323.

All sports teams should change their name to the Nulls* Chenney shooting partner

You must have miss the recent name change of the USA House Congressional Republican Capital softball team. By a vote of 218 to 205 last week. They voted to name the team " The fighting Republican Idiots"

The Senatorial Republican Softball team decided to keep the same name as before. " 4 Corners Stall"

Good one, Connie, but I think they should remove "fighting" from their name.

I know it's completely off subject, but would someone please give their opinion of the High Point Choice Plan?

Let's say you were, yourself, Hindu, for example. If someone were to use an emblem on their school sports mascot/logo that associated rah-rah boosterism with, say, Ganesh or Shiva, would you not be offended?

Many Native Americans do, in fact, revere and treasure feathers, specifically of eagles or other raptors. These feathers may even represent divine powers for certain believers.

If the name "Tribe" were not involved, I think the feathers alone would not be cause for potential offense. But they take on a different meaning once the word "Tribe" is part of the context.

Finally, there may even be a certain upset over the colors themselves. I know of no Native traditions that dye eagle fetahers green...though it is possible the Pomo of California do so in their baskets. Usually, however, raptor feathers are not used for such utilitarian purposes, but rather for strictly ceremonial or medicinal ones.

Allow me to amend one statement: it is true some Native Americans revere (a) certain spirit(s) and exercise practices that involve feathers. I am not sure how many still do, but it is not an insignificant population.

The NCAA says "Tribe" is OK, so I have to agree with Gene Nichol about the incomprehensible contradictions in police.

Not that I see anything wrong with Tribe. It's not a pejorative term.

I really don't see the harm in having a couple of feathers in the logo. So what if somebody somewhere regards feathers as sacred? Someone else might think a mountain lion is sacred. Does Western Carolina then have to get rid of its mascot? You kind of get back to Savage's point: No one can have any kind of mascot at all because some people will complain about anything.

Kenny, nobody was ever interested in anybody's opinion of the HPCP (or I should state, the opinions of those affected) which of course is the whole point. Just like nobody is interested in W&M's opinion-because somebody at the NCAA is on a mission from god, and their holy mission must be carried out, so help them Dot er..I mean God.

Freddie, ever think that the people above might be trying to HONOR Shiva or Ganesh in your example? Why is there an automatic assumption of defamation or desecration ?

What about kids going around, not with feathers or god forbid picures of Indians on the back of their jersies, but with "Jordan" or "Delhomme" written on the back of thier jersies. Now, an insane person could say that these children are defiling Micheal and Jake or their image because obviously, they are little kids and are not really Mike and Jake. The presumption is that they are DEFILING something when in fact they are obviously honoring it. Why would a sports team choose something they want to represent them in order to DEFILE it. You would in a sense be defiling yourself.

You're worrying me, Savage. I might start to think you make sense.

Must be the heat, Doug. Anyway, thanks.

The NCAA commission is on a PC rant from hades. They need to go back to doing what they were commissioned to do and that is to make rules as to how schools can play the game and what rules are followed. They have no business in the logo business.
I agree Doug, this is so much HORSEFEATHERS.
Now the case of SC Football team comes up and they may be penalized because the Confederate flag flies over the capitol. What the heck does that have to do with football? Nothing, just more PC HORSEFEATHERS. Wonder if Flordia put them up to that deal since they are scared crapless that Steve will build a team there even better than the one he built while at Fla. Don't forget what he did with Duke as well. Could it be revenge or fear?

Swordfish!

Okay, let's grant that someone will always be offended, no matter what. Does that then mean one shouldn't avoid causing offense when it involves something as easy to remedy as removing an image of feathers, of horse or eagle?

"Tribe" is less specific, and, I agree, more neutral, than images of feathers, painted outrageous, unnatural colors, then TIED contextually to the word "Tribe". It's a function of semiotics.
Heck, Doug, you and I are of the "Tribe" of Caucasians smart-asses. What if someone got up a notion to display, say, oh, a big fuscia and puce sacred heart or Jesus in drag? One can't dictate the way adherents of another belief system "should" or "should not" be offended. You have to instead dream up some way in which you would be similarly offended by something you found obscene or blasphemous.

Of course, I wouldn't want to be a member of any tribe that would have me. Personally, I don't have any particular religious imagery worth keeping off-limits.

But I can empathize with groups who may well find beer-guzzling, boosterish, blatantly agressive blood-sport fans, masquerading as scholars, chanting pseudo-war cries and waving their painted mugs, chests and foam-fingers "beyond the pale".

Any questions? Any answers? Any rags? Any bones? Any bottles today?

I agree with the Prof. on this. Especially those Fla. State people and the over and over tomamahawk chop as they chant supposedly an "Indian" chant over and over again which is nothing more than a poor imitation of some Hollywood movie scorers idea of what an Indian chant should sound like and we heard in countless western movies. It goes on and on until the listeners are numbed senseless. (and then suddenly Fla St. scores like three times in the next 45 sec. and you and your team leave the stadium saying: "what the ---- was that?) That is a crime against not just Indians but all humanity.

I think Florida State's response last year still is the standard for fighting the NCAA's ridiculous posture on the Native American issue.

FSU wrote that their Seminole mascot honors the tribe, its heritage and importance to the state of Florida by serving as the symbol for the school.

They also, if I remember correctly, had comments from the current tribal leadership saying that they appreciated the symbolism of the Seminole mascot and the powerful way the school portrays it.

Anyone who has seen the Seminole on the horse ride to midfield at an FSU football game and slam his spear into the ground does not come away with a tarnished view of the tribe, the mascot or the school. It is powerful imagery.

I also wonder how the NCAA expects Illinois to change its mascot, when the word Illinois is itself derived from the Illini tribe. What other nickname or mascot is appropriate for the state of Illinois?

Washington Redskins and the former St. Johns Redmen I have a problem with but Fighting Illini and Seminoles are part of American history that cannot be changed.

Now as to the state of South Carolina. My opinion as a southern man whose family comes through Virginia to Wilkes County in the early 1800s, and also who is a descendant of the Ransome family, who had a general leading North Carolina troops in the CSA army, is that the flag should come down.

It's not my state, but at some point flying the flag moves beyond "heritage, not hate" to spite. I feel that if the flag is offensive to a large body of citizens then the state should recognize and take the damn thing down and put it in a museum.

I am personally becoming more and more outraged by these minority groups and word police running roughshod over the rest of us. Sorry Doug I do not agree that Redskins is offensive. Nor is Indians, Americans, bulldogs or frogs, saints or sinners! Neither do I feel my rights are being abused by having a stone with the ten commandments engraved on it on the steps of the court house. Nor a cross in a park. Nor saying the Pledge of Allegiance or sing the National Anthem. I am however becoming more and more offended, yes OFFENDED, by the few being allowed to trample my rights. When I wonder will the rest of us stand up and say enough to these fools? It is this group of people who are perpetuating the story about a 9/11 conspiracy Doug. It is these people who hate America and hate God and hate us for being so “democratic” and “sensitive” to the point where we have become weak lily livered stooges.
Signed: Brenda Bowers, a 65 year old Old Bitch who has watched my country and my countrymen degenerate from a proud and courageous people to this point where perhaps the world is right and we American's deserve nothing by hate and contempt.

Sykes, just what the heck does the flag flying over the SC state capitol have to do with the football team? Not one dang thing IMO. I don't want to hear it's a state school since that is neither here nor there. If it were Illinois would be in deep doo as well as the Utah Utes. As far as SC is concerned, it's just another NCAA PC rant backed by the NAACP and others that Brenda described. Time to say , up yours to the whole lot. If all the teams withdrew from the NCAA and formed a new oversight group I bet that would certainly get their attention in a heart beat and the PC bull stuff would stop. We'd hear no more about feathers much less the rest of the Horsefeathers they seem to have dished out in the past 10 years. Perhaps they have outlived their usefulness. Ya think?

Would someone here give me an example of an imagined image/mascot that was offensive to Christianity or some part of YOUR heritage if it were used by a stinkin' football or other sports team?

"The Pacifist Galileans"?

"The Murderous Crusaders"?

"The Torturing Bendictines"?

"The Enslaving WASPS"?

How about images that colorfully change the appearance and context of crosses, of the American Flag, of rosary beads and Wonderbread?

Good one, Connie, but I think they should remove "fighting" from their name.*Doug

You are correct as usual Doug! How about the " Choking" Republicans?

As you know Doug! I am a retired a sports agent who has come out of retirement to secure two promising NFL types propects from your area as a postion in the future for them with a NFL club in the USA. I have decided to send them to the NFL Eurpoe leaque for a little more training this coming year. They will be playing for the "Berlin Panzer Bitz" in the Eastern Polish division of the leaque.

The Confederate flag has not flown over the South Carolina capitol in more than six years. It was taken down by legislative decree and now flies next to a monument honoring Confederate war dead on capitol grounds. In other words, it's an historic display. This was a compromise acceptable to the South Carolina NAACP, as I recall. Not not to the national NAACP or NCAA apparently.

As the grandson of Irish immigrants, I am not offended by Notre Dame's "Fighting Irish" nickname or leprechaun mascot. I doubt anyone is.

As I said Doug, maybe Flordia or UT has put the NCAA up to this deal on SC. You suppose they could fear what Spurrier can do with SC. I mean for a guy to take a team that was suppose to be cellar mold and turn it into a winning team first year out of the blocks, who knows? Great conspiracy theory , especially if you link UT, (win at any cost Vols) to it. What ya think Doug?

Would you be offended if the beloved Irish were shown with an orange shamrock? (Actually, I am told orange is the color of Saint Patrick!) While we are at it, what if Saint Paddy was saluted with beer kegs aflow and sophomoric college chants: "Holy Mary, Mother of God, Let us Beat the Bejeebus Outta Them!"

St. Paddy already is celebrated with green beer every March 17, and the Irish take it in good humor. They like the attention.

I think Notre Dame will stick with green as its color. Syracuse University stopped calling its teams the Orangemen some years ago (now they're just Orange, like the citrus fruit), although I wasn't aware of any big problem with Orangemen. Lots of Scotch-Irish are proud to be called Orangemen.

You are probably right about the Irish and their progeny being less "touchy", shall we say, about beer and circuses. I am not as sure about the WASP community, beyond the Scots, particularly.
And shamrocks are one thing, crosses and rosaries another.

I still await someone to take me up on the game of imagining some use of his or her own sacred symbols for upsettingly blasphemous or insensitive displays. Does everone think that is simply not imaginable? Or do we lack imagination?

One thing, though: imagine the offending supposed anti-WASP, anti-Christian symbolism was meant to honor said religion/ethnicity. But they goofed up.