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Doug everyone knows religion and football don't mix and that there should be a line between church and football.

On the other hand, just as they say there are no atheists in foxholes, there may be no atheists in the trenches of a football game.

It's not holding religious views, or political views that get people into trouble-it's forcing and bullying other people into accepting them that problems arise.

I doubt if either of the above coaches would try to do that.

Good point, Savage. I agree.

Doug,

There certainly is connection between football and religion. Check out all the pre and post game gatherings on a knee, the number of players who thank the Lord first for their good fortune. And as a Notre Dame grad, I can tell you that Touchdown Jesus is real and so is a pep rally that starts at the Grotto. We should also consider that Pro Football first conquered the keeping the sabbath holy with their Sunday games.
But Dungy and Smith are just good people and it is great to see their success. If religion is a common denominator maybe we should pay attention to that.

The horror of it all. Where are the MC/PC police and the ACLU? There are thousands of people who might be offended by such statements-could be considered a hate crime.

Thanks, Bob. The Lord really should let Notre Dame win a bowl game one of these years. I appreciate your closing point: let's pay attention to how people like Tony Dungy lead their lives. They're real role models.

Toby, no issue for the ACLU. But suppose Dungy coached at a public university?

t's not holding religious views, or political views that get people into trouble-it's forcing and bullying other people into accepting them that problems arise.

It also helps that 1) Dungy's record on this issue is consistent. 2) He ain't running for office (and, after winning a Super Bowl, won't have to and would find such a move a step down).

Doug, I heard the Lord wants Notre Dame to join a conference, so they don't get special preference in BCS bowl selection.

I'm interested to know what Dungy meant by, "do it the Lord's way." Both Dungy and Smith don't yell, don't curse, are probably hard-nosed when it comes to discipline, operate ethically, are true to their word, and aren't shopping for a better job.

Dungy got screwed in Tampa. It was his team that Gruden coached to the Super Bowl win. I don't recall him griping that much back then.

I think Dungy was sending a message to the always yelling/cursing/complaining type that seems to predominate coaching today.

Jim, you're right about coaching today -- sometimes down to the little league level.

I guess that's not really new, but I'd like to see the Dungy example prevail across the board.

In defense of all the foul-mouthed, butt- kicking coaches I've had, some of which made an art form out of profanity, but were loved anyway, I think it is relativly easy to be a gentleman coach in professional sports than say high school sports.

In pro sports, the guys are playing for a paycheck. No listen to coach-pack your bags, poof-no paycheck. Although you have plenty of pressure to win, you don't have parental or that type of political pressure and the guys are more mature also.

I'm not saying it can't be done and it's not being done, but I just think it would be easier in the pro setting.

that there should be a line between church and football.*Samuel

There is somewhat! About 20 of them, with a few thrown in at the end and couple to made sure nobody is box in the church choir. And a slew of chain gang guards racing around to make sure you don't cross the lines without your papers being in order. To really top it off the game already has a Major God. He is call the Commissior who is appointed by a host of minor gods call the owners. And to please all of the gods in the game, large religious symbols are erected at end of the field for little tiny devils to kick a pagan religious pig through to please the bigger devil worshipers in the stands in a very high spiritual mode with a Bud Lite rite. In fact some of the teams honor the Gods with names as " The Saints" and pagan religious animal names, such as Bears, Bengals, Rams, Colts, Panthers, Jargars, Dophins, Denver Ponies, Falcons, Ravens, Cardinals, Seahawks, and Houston Cows? Not sure about that since they play like little last asses coming into the big barn last.

And finally to please the ancient Greek, German and Spainish Empire Gods, names like Giants, Titans, Viking, Raiders, Tampa Bay Buckneers.

Oh and don't forget the historial western gods, Cowboys, Redskins, Chiefs. 49's

And finally to the gods with no knowledge or no name thinking. Browns, Packers, Bills and to the Thomas Edison God along with the Andrew Carniegn God of wealth, The Chargers and Steelers.

And now it is kick off God time. Will the Captains of the Gods meet and let's decide who gets the God of Forture break.

Interesting. I wonder if everyone would be so accepting and tolerant if Dungy had said...

"But again, more than anything, Lovie Smith and I are not only African American but also [choose one: homosexual/athiest/Muslim/Democrat/environmentalist/liberal, etc.] coaches, showing you can do it our way. We're more proud of that."

Certainly, since the Colts are a private ball club, Dungy can say whatever he likes. If he believes being Christian has made him a nicer, more polite and/or ethical coach, that's fine.

Do the extremely polite athletes and coaches we see from Buddhist countries in the Olympics lose out in their coaching abilities because they don;t follow Jesus? If the vast majority of their own teams are also Buddhist, wouldn't it be a disadvantage if they were Christian? Actually, it would mostly be an improbabilty.

As for the canard about atheists not being in foxholes, there was a March in late 2005 around Veteran's Day to bear witness to exactly the existence of men and women who have faced enemy fire in battle, but didn't suddenly convert from their agnostic or atheist stance (http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/foxhole1.htm)

It is rather insulting, really, to maintain non-theists do and will always give up their life's belief system because of such horrors. It may even serve to expand their skepticism about the existence of any god.

I am happy for Dungy and the example he sets for all aspiring youth, black, white and other skin colors; if he inspires some who feel they need Jesus, that's fine, too. It is simply short-sighted to assume being of a particular religion makes one better at sports or life, except perhaps allowing one to communicate more effectively with like-mided, similarly-raised people living in a shared culture.

Johann, I think there was was sneering at what Dungy did say. Some of the alternatives you suggest might have provoked more.

As for how it all translates to occupational success, well, I doubt Dungy would claim to be a better Christian than Smith, explaining his victory Sunday.

Freddy, I agree that Dungy's religious beliefs probably don't make him better at coaching football. However, I have no doubt that he is right that being a Christian makes him a better person. I don't mean by that that all Christians are better people than non-Christians, but that Dungy is a better person than he would be otherwise because of his faith -- because, if it is genuine faith, it transforms the way he lives his daily life. (The same can be true for followers of other faiths, but we're talking about Dungy here.)

Would you grant, Doug, that education, a love for nature, or art and music, could not also help one become a better person? If so, why privilege religion as extraordinary?