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It's easy, declare victory and get out.

Is there any possible outcome that won't be a disaster? If so, is there anyone with the wisdom to find it?*Doug

If and when my Son dies in Iraqi for the neo-con war mongering, I will consider it dishonor to put the American Flag on his coffin. It's fools like Baghdad " John" McClain others within the Republican leadership and Democratic leadership that think it is our Global goal to save every corrupt soul on this planet. Load them up Doug.... Out now and impeach Bush and the other traitors who have destroy our constitution.

Doug:

You've described neither side fairly.

Our policies in Iraq are not working and actually seem to be making things worse (unless you believe that chemical attacks using chlorine trucks are a mark of progress--wasn't the initial goal of this policy to eliminate WMDs?). There are two primary options: commit significantly more resources or pull back resources.

Contrary to your statement, President Bush and his two or three remaining supporters are not "willing to pay any price to avoid losing." Instead they have committed troops piece-meal and, in complete disrespect of the sacrifices being demanded of the few that serve, on the cheap. Please name one general sacrifice that they have asked of any American outside of those serving in the Armed Forces and outside of the administration's encroachments on civil liberties. Going forward with the administration's "strategy" will only compound our losses.

The ugly alternative that this administration has brought us to is to withdraw and pull back troops to the absolute minimum needed to contain our existential enemy--Al Qaeda--and to protect the one group that has shown any willingness to adopt a pluralistic government--the Kurds. The outcome will be horrible, but it is an outcome that can only be postponed, not stopped, with our current piece-meal strategy.

Is there any possible outcome that won't be a disaster? If so, is there anyone with the wisdom to find it?* Doug

Yes! Why don't you cover the funeral of the Greensboro kid that was killed yesterday in Iraq with the 82 nd Airboure and let us know what his family thinks now?

As if on cue, the administration announced today that it is extending the tours of combat for most army units to 15 months from the current 12 months. Yet another morale booster for our women and men in uniform.

If the Democrats in congress really believe what they say and have courage, then they need to immediately defund the war. That'll end our involvement in Iraq very quickly. But, when they do that, they need to be prepared to accept the consequences that follow.

Roche would have us believe that it is as simple as declaring victory and leaving, but it is not that simple. Actions do have consequences, whether we want them to or not. We have evidence of Iran's involvement against our forces in Iraq, and can there be any doubt that the taking of British sailors and marines was not a ploy to put British and American forces on the defensive? Sure, we should leave the Middle East, and watch Iran develop nuclear power with which to threaten and intimidate the West and Israel? When that happens, we will have little to no options. Talk to these thugs? The only thing that they will want to talk about is terms of our surrender.

Yes, declaring victory and leaving is easy, but it is not a solution. Defunding our military and forcing them to leave Iraq will not end this conflict. It would only increase the danger to our country.

Doug,

If we can't win, then we can only lose, and our future is going to look pretty bleak. Osama will be right. America is a paper tiger.

"Our policies in Iraq are not working and actually seem to be making things worse..."
Oh, really? And what sources do you use to gather the information with which you form your opinions? We rely on the mainstream media for information about events which we don't personally witness. Often the media gives you the information to form the opinion *they* want you to have.
We accomplished everything we set out to do. Go back and read the goals for this administration when we began this campaign.
We crushed the regime we set out to replace.
We prevented the ongoing WMD programs from continuing.
We liberated millions from oppression.
We helped bring a struggling democracy into place in Iraq.
We removed the threat that Iraq posed to the entire Middle East and, by proxy, the free world.
Millions now pursue their lives in freedom.
Is it a hard job? Yes, your president told you long ago that it would be a long, hard struggle that may last even beyond his administration(s). He didn't lie, it is a hard job.
"...extending the tours of combat for most army units to 15 months from the current 12 months. Yet another morale booster for our women and men in uniform."
Just because the thought of serving your country in the military either personally disgusts or frightens you, Mr. Ribar, does not mean you should transfer your fear to our young citizens in uniform. Recruitment is way over goals, reenlistment has never been higher, and those who've served tours in Iraq and Afghanistan volunteer to return in numbers larger than ever seen before in any US conflict. I've participated in two wars, including Operation Iraqi Freedom, and I've never seen motivation and pride like that of our current military. You demean them by suggesting that the Administration is hurting their morale. Just ask them what hurts them the most---it's the stabs-in-the-back from people like you, Mr. Ribar; that's what they hate.
Don't let your anti-Bush feelings interfere with the truth, they're not the same, no matter how badly you wish they were.

Don't let your anti-Bush feelings interfere with the truth, they're not the same, no matter how badly you wish they were*JC

I have a first class airline ticket for you JC to Baghdad. Pack your bags Son and show your phony Orwellian courage and disinformation you war mongering fool.

Connie, I don't usually read or respond to your remarks, but let me say this:
I spent a year in Iraq and much of what I say is the result of personal experience and observation.
Can you say the same? If not, then shut up.

Doug,

How many wars that this country has fought have ever gone perfectly? How many wars has this country ever fought that soldiers or marines have not been injured or died? How many wars has this country fought that there weren't vocal critics?

This war is different because the political party opposite of the President have done everything possible to undermine the war with the able assistance of MSM.

If you think that this war has been marred by military mistakes, consider how many mistakes were made in WWII. Much of that war was fought on a politically correct basis, and it could have cost us the war. Other than the personal courage of our marines and sailors in the Pacific, we would have lost that war. Guadalcanal was bloody and horrific (1,592 Americans killed and 4,183 wounded in a six month battle), but sans our marine's courage and determination, we could have been defeated in the Pacific as winning at Guadalcanal brought strategic gains in the Pacific War . All one has to do is watch the movie, The Longest Day, to understand how many mistakes were made in that one battle alone.

So, my point is that we need to quit second-guessing and undermining the ear, and just try to win it. Yes, winning is possible. And, contrary to Ms. Pelosi's opinion, it is not a situation to be managed. It is a life and death matter.

Connie, I don't usually read or respond to your remarks, but let me say this:*JC

Good for you JC! I wouldn't respond if I had to fib like you.

I spent a year in Iraq and much of what I say is the result of personal experience and observation.
Can you say the same?*JC

Yep! Sure can! Talk to my Son about twice a week on good day with the Sat communications systems.
I going to Iraq in the next couple of weeks, would you care come along as my backpack carrier?

Would you care to post your military resume on this thread to show your courage and brilliant intellect in world affairs except being a tool of the Orwellian miltary police state disinformation service?

If not, then shut up.* JC

And you claim to be a defender of the 1 st amendment and free speech for the peoples of Iraq and American. Screw you and the NAZI fascist goat religious helmet you rode in on. You are like the Bush neo-con agenda! Screw the constitution and the American people!

I met the aunt of number 3291 today. I was sitting in seat 11E and a flight attendant gave me a note from a woman in seat 33C: "My nephew was killed in Iraq yesterday. I would like to meet you."

Seat belt light or not, I headed back toward the rear of the airplane. We held each other and she said: "What can I do? My brother was in the Army and he initially supported the effort. Yesterday, he made a sign with a picture of his son saying: 'Murdered by George Bush.'" I prayed for the Universe to give the families strength yesterday as I do everyday our soldiers are killed, as I pray for the Iraqis and their families who are also murdered unnecessarily. I don't often get to meet the people I pray for in such a timely manner.

Four of our brave and abused troops were killed in King George's escalation of the conflict in Iraq. Ten over the Easter weekend while George was hiding out at his ranch in Crawford. George Bush and his bloody gang of war-bandits have caused so much pain and heartache in the world without so much as a blink of the eye. Number 3291's aunt recounted how she heard her sister 'screaming for her son," on the other end of the phone. Number 3291's family is just beginning to realize the true meaning of broken heart and betrayals.

Number 3291 has a name: Brian. The only thing I know for sure about Brian was that he was in the army, he was probably blown up by an IED (which could have been avoided with an IED detector in his vehicle), and he has a loving aunt named Sheryl. His family lives in North Carolina and that's where his body will be returning to under the cover of darkness to hide the shame of the Bush Regime.

Brian will never be a number to his family or friends. To the few people in this country who still incredibly support this horror and his war, Brian's sacrifice will be noted as "freedom isn't free," or "he volunteered." To the anti-war movement, Brian will be commemorated in a candlelight vigil when the 4000th troop is killed in Iraq. To the man sitting next to me in seat 11D, Brian is a non-entity because he: has no opinion on the occupation one way or the other because he has no "time to worry about it." Trust me though, that's all Brian's mom did for the entire time he was in Iraq and there are 160,000 moms who lie awake at night worried about their child and Iraqi moms who never know when the last "I love you," is the last one forever.

To me Brian represents a failure. I have been struggling with all my energy and resources to insure that Brian's mom never had to fall on the floor screaming in agony or so that Aunt Sheryl would never have to take a sad and lonely trip across the country to be with her family in this terrible occasion for mourning. Every death since Casey's has hit me with a fresh assault of suffering. How can my wounds heal when so many new ones are being opened up on a daily basis in three countries that are being devastated by the Bush doctrine of inflicting immeasurable damage with his war for profit being masqueraded as a war on terror?

The anti-war movement is failing in many areas. First of all, like the man sitting next to me, there are too many apathetic people in this country. How can anyone still be so indifferent to so much death and destruction? Even the people who are still confused and support the war have an opinion. The anti-war movement is also failing in its lack of influence on the policy makers. When such pro-occupation entities as MoveOn are being hailed as the "anti-war left" and our Congressional leadership are listening to them and using their corrupt polls as tools to hammer theoretically anti-war Reps into voting for a bill that would extend our troop presence in Iraq indefinitely, then the true anti-war movement has not been effective in getting our message out.

Another goal that the anti-war movement should have would be to move the overwhelming majority of Americans who are against the occupation of Iraq off of their couches and into the streets. The leaders of our country are in the obscenely deep pockets of the war machine and are exceedingly comfortable there. Only a massive electoral revolt will be able to pick the pockets of the war profiteers and force our elected officials to represent us and not the wealthy.

Brian's family, my family, 3293 other families, our military families who are financially and emotionally strapped by the constant deployments and getting ready for deployments are sacrificing too much on the altar of greed. The Iraqi people who did not ask for Bush's help are sacrificing horribly on this imperial altar. The rest of this nation is not sacrificing the way that so many others have. I am working so you don't have to.

But if we, as a nation, want to end the farce of false patriotism to justify wars for profit and empire, we will have to sacrifice until it hurts. In this cleansing act will come redemption, because we can be assured that all of the children of the world are safe and sound. If we don't work to end the absolute stranglehold of violence we are clutched in, then we deserve what we get.

Our movement has to move toward peace…at all costs.

Connie, that's very moving. Would you like to give credit to the author?

Stormy, you're correct about past wars. The Revolutionary War went badly for years before it turned around, thanks largely to Nat. Greene. The Civil War - the presidential election of 1864 was about ending it. Woodrow Wilson put our troops in a meat grinder in World War I. They turned the tide but at high cost and for little gain for our country. I often wonder about World War II, whether a "peace movement" might have pushed for an armistice before D-Day, simply "containing" Hitler on the continent and sparing tens of thousands of American lives.

Nevertheless, I see Iraq as different because we aren't in a war with a country that will surrender when beaten. We're fighting terrorists and insurgents who will continue to plant IEDs and send out suicide bombers. Can we ever stop that? But I agree that the Pelosi/Reid strategy hands victory to the terrorists and encourages them to step up attacks elsewhere against a weakened United States.

Stormy, there will always be detractors with political motives that oppose the current administration (whichever party it may be) and this is especially true when our country is at war.
Thank goodness there are true patriots who support our fight against terrorists and support an administration with the courage to confront an intolerable situation left them by eight years of failed Clinton foreign policy.
If they naysayers were in charge, we'd have quit WWII after Guadalcanal, or Normandy, or Pearl Harbor.
There are only two choices:
1) Surrender to terrorists and become slaves to Islamic fascism
2) Fight for continued freedom.
I choose the latter.

Connie, that's very moving. Would you like to give credit to the author?* Doug

Sure Doug! My good so-called communist friend Cindy Sheehan. Shocking is it not? Cindy will be in Greensboro next week for a march and a speech. I will be happy to arranged a interview for you with her. What you folks on the so-called conservative right don't know, is that Cindy was a creation out of a libertarian anti-war think tank along with the Patriot movement 2 years ago. I should know! And do I really look and act like a communist Doug?

Yep and you George Bush folks and Foxx Network thought it was some communist dictator in South America pulling her strings.

I waiting on Don Imus and Nifong to apoloized for the Iraq war which should solved the war.

Well, Harry Reid has officially declared defeat.