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Good teachers want good students, period. If you're talking to a hostile crowd every day--even a dull crowd--it's pointless, grinding labor. The change will have to come in the classroom, not in the teacher. I doubt even doubling their salary would entice many teachers to leave a class at the top of the intellectual food chain for one at the bottom.

I too agree that this is probably not the way to solve the teaching vacancy issue, it will take a lot more than that. I've covered this issue on my blog extensively, the issue of a general lack of motivation among our American H.S. students. Look at this post as well:

http://erikhuey.wordpress.com/2007/05/10/news-alert-new-figures-show-high-dropout-rate-wash-post/

Apparently, there was a big summit in Washington yesterday discussing the increased dropout rate among urban schools. You've heard me say repetitively that we are in a state of emergency with regards to public education, especially in Guilford Co. And it is a sadder case that no one's talking about it...except for you. Thanks Doug.

E.C. Huey

Thanks, brian and Erik.

I've written before about my son, Andrew. He's taken on a very challenging teaching assignment for a salary of about $150 a month. He's a Peace Corps teacher at a secondary school in Tanzania, working and living in what we'd consider to be primitive conditions. However, he is not considering going into teaching when he returns, even though in his field (math) he could qualify for the higher salary and bonuses. His reason isn't that he wants to go into a higher-paying occupation. Instead, he's afraid that, after teaching in a culture where young people are respectful of teachers and other elders, and where they appreciate the opportunity to get an education, he wouldn't adjust well to an American secondary school. Maybe he'll change his mind, but I can't fault his reasoning.

So I don't know what the solution is except to create, and in fact demand, a culture of respect in our own schools -- respect for teachers and respect for learning.

As far as the dropout rate, well, there's a bill in the state legislature to raise the mandatory attendance age to 18. What about that?

Doug, I think we first need to do a much better job of assuring security for these teachers. We need to make it unthinkable that a teacher would be attacked or assaulted.

Second, we need to make a real effort at creating an environment in which discipline is possible. Not a token effort, but a real effort that succeeds.

Thanks, Joe.

You're absolutely right. Safety comes first. Not racial sensitivities, not children's self-esteem, but safety and discipline.

It was never reported, and I don't know or care, whether the student who attacked teacher Michael LaRocco at Southeast was black, white, brown, red or something in between. It wasn't reported, and I don't know or care, what the student's problems or issues were. It doesn't matter. What matters is that the behavior was unacceptable and intolerable. All students must conform to a code of conduct or they must be removed from the normal school setting and placed somewhere more appropriate -- even if that's a publicly funded but privately operated boot camp/school.

Doug,

Be careful - there are members of the GCS school board who would adamantly disagree with you. They might say that you have to first understand the cultural differences that might exist with this child.

Some might say that it's not his fault at all.

Maybe everyone on the school board would disagree with an entirely new approach to school discipline.

To ensure safety, wouldn't we have to assign an SRO immediately adjacent to, if not within, every classroom? A student can act out violently in an instant. Sometimes, it may well be a student with no previous history of violence and therefore no allowing no chance for a system of institutional discipline to have an effect.

I suppose we could track potentil problem students earlier: first-graders or even kindergarteners who show a proclivity for acting out could be flagged and more restraints imposed on them. Maybe forced medication? It's going to get expensive and pretty intrusive. The boot camp idea certainly helps remove violent young people from the regular school setting. I understand regimented drills and, admittedly, somewhat dehumanizing (or at least de-individualizing) tactics to break down a person's sense of prideful self-aggrandizement are successful in creating a more respectful young person.

"there's a bill in the state legislature to raise the mandatory attendance age to 18. What about that?" - Doug

What about making attendance voluntary after 8th grade? You'd only have students in school that wanted to be there or the onus would be on their parents to make sure that they're there.

Jim, you're correct of course that it's not possible to predict every instance of violence. Nor can you discipline a student who hasn't done anything wrong ... yet. So there's no way to eliminate risk.

Voluntary attendance after eighth grade? A lot of ninth-graders have already turned 16 so for many at-risk students attendance is voluntary after eighth-grade. But I think that's too soon to give up on their education. Perhaps finding the right setting can help some.

One cannot enforce discipline in today's schools without incurring the wrath of the ACLU which will sue them for each and every alleged, perceived, or imagined breach of student's rights, privacy, ethnicity, race, creed, color, or religious intolerance.
The mere use of certain words by anyone associated with the school system is cause for lawsuit, discipline, dismissal, admonishment, public humiliation, termination, and a ruined career. Just for speaking a word or two that offends any one of a myriad of perpetually offended classes we've allowed to flourish in our communities.
The very context and content of history is being changed by those who want to deflect and deny the truth by lying about it to our children.

How in the world can you expect a teacher to maintain any discipline or control in a world made crazy by the liberals who manipulate our school systems? One need only look at race-baiter Deena Hayes to understand why any semblance of order is no longer possible: If a teacher dared discipline a black child he/she'd be branded a racist, sued, fired, jailed, and kiss your future goodbye, if Hayes had her way.
Assaults on school officials are tolerated because to punish a student might affect his "self-esteem." Never mind that we're accepting teen-age murderers out into our community, coddled by tolerance in our schools so as not to hurt their feelings.
But the problem doesn't just affect the schools, it affects every aspect of society in which the undisciplined, uneducated student will live for the rest of his life.

A real change requires school boards, other government authorities and the courts to stand up to the attitude that disruptive students are victims who deserve protection. The ACLU doesn't run this country. When it's right on issues, it should prevail. When it's wrong, it shouldn't.

I couldn't agree more with your above statement, Doug.

Unfortunately, here in Guilford County, the school board is the one promoting the attitude that disruptive students are victims who deserve protection.

It's sad, but the people entrusted to protect our children are the biggest stumbling blocks to keeping them safe - witness the whole flap with them wanting to kick SROs out of schools.

Sometimes it takes coercion to make attitudes change. It can be political coercion -- the voters elect pro-discipline candidates, period. It could be legal coercion.

On the second point, jaycee alluded to the threat of lawsuits against teachers who are perceived to unfairly discipline students. Granted, that's a concern. But when are teachers who are attacked and injured by students going to seek damages against their employers for failing to provide a safe working environment? Isn't that the first obligation of a school system? Admittedly, sometimes these acts of violence are not predictable. But sometimes there are students in school who have a history of violent behavior. If they commit another act of violence, the victim might have a very good case.

One problem is that the atmosphere in which school teachers work (and this holds true for other public workers as well) is fraught with fear. Fear of losing a job, losing teaching credentials, being publicly ostracized, jailed, or run out of town on a rail. Their actions are predicated on what will cause them the least amount of trouble, not on what's best for the child or the school. If a teacher doesn't use that as criteria for his/her actions then they'll be looking for a job shortly.
Discipline an unruly black child? You can expect to be the focus of Deena Hayes's rage, scorn, and ridicule.

That may be the trouble with the four Charlotte schools I began this post with: higher fear factor for teachers.