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Church and state always stirs a good debate

Some letters you just know are going to get a big response.

Today's from Barbara Sloan was one of those. Our headline for it was: "Democrats more in line with Jesus' teaching."

She starts out, quite rightly, by protesting efforts by some Christian conservatives to portray Democrats as anti-religion and themselves as God's apostles to the world of politics.

Where she goes wrong is by saying that Democrats base their beliefs on the teachings of Jesus and use the power of government to carry them out.

Oh, and then she argues for the separation of church and state.

Some of the first few commenters on the letters blog have it right: politics has very little to do with religion. Both political parties are after worldly power. The major differences are in which constituencies they appeal to in order to get that power.

My own belief is that one can't fulfill his or her religious obligations through government programs funded by the taxpayers. If you think God wants you to serve the needy, get out there and do it yourself!

If you support government programs to accomplish social objectives, fine. We need lots of them. But that's not a mission from God.

Comments (10)

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jaycee said:

If the Dems are "...more in line with Jesus' teachings." then why are they spearheading the removal of Jesus and religion from schools, public property, community areas, courts, city council chambers, and trying to eliminate Christmas altogether? Liberal anti-religious groups and the ACLU are definitely not affiliated with the Republican party.

My own belief is that one can't fulfill his or her religious obligations through government programs funded by the taxpayers. If you think God wants you to serve the needy, get out there and do it yourself!* Doug

No doubt the poor soul democrat is confuse. All one has to do is simply look at the Title of the United States Government....It does not say " The United States of the Kingdom of Jesus"

Anonymous said:

Doug:

You may not have intended it, but your statement that the letter writer is wrong to say "Democrats base their beliefs on the teachings of Jesus" can be read by many to be both wrong and intolerant. There are many Democrats (just as there are many Republicans) who vote and act based on strongly held religious beliefs.

In your post, you also appear to have assumed the role of the Almighty in stating that support of social programs is not a mission from God. At best, you are discounting people's motivations in advocating these programs; at worst, you are claiming a knowledge of the absolute that a human can't possibly have.

Doug said:

Thanks. I didn't express myself as clearly as I should have.

You are correct that Democrats (as well as Republicans) can base their political views on religious beliefs. My problem is when they want to use the power of government to carry out their beliefs.

I'm not putting myself in the position of the Almighty, but I don't know of any instructions He gave us to make government an instrument of His will.

Ed Cone said:

Democrats are "trying to eliminate Christmas altogether"?

Democrats are "trying to eliminate Christmas altogether"?* Ed Cone

So are the Celts too! They hate competition from other Phallus worshipers also. Ed! You are not one of those secret ancient Phallus worshipers from the Temple with a Xmas tree on the Money Changers table are you? After all, you always appear to be the top oblisk in the blogging world.

Doug said:

This is probably a post I never should have made in the first place. I didn't express myself clearly to begin with, and it hasn't gotten any better with further comments. Apologies to everyone.

This is probably a post I never should have made in the first place. I didn't express myself clearly to begin with, and it hasn't gotten any better with further comments. Apologies to everyone.*Doug

I agree! I have no idea where Ed is coming from with his attack on Xmas trees.....He got enough problems with the Edwards campaign about his recent comment that Edwards was white and wants to be a crossdresser, and now he is making democrats mad about Xmas.

Joe Guarino said:

Doug, no need to be apologetic about your post. This particular letter to the editor to which you linked was one of the more astonishing I had ever seen. It is unusual that we see such a raw display of self-contradiction.

It is unusual that we see such a raw display of self-contradiction.*Joe Guarino

Maybe Doc! It was rare to see Republicans in sex scandels. It appears to be a self-contradiction within your own party too.

More neo-con Republican Sex, Lies and Corruption in North Carolina


Dear Friends and Voters,


Just as the Mike Nifong and Jim Black scandals have come to a closure, we are treated to new revelations about more misconduct in office by our shining examples of our elected and future leaders. I will detail but a few.

Glen Murphy, former chair of the Young Republicans National Federation, stepped down amid charges that he performed oral intercourse on a young man who was asleep at his residence. Another Republican, State Representative Bob Allen, was arrested and charged with soliciting an undercover. Representative Allen wanted to perform oral intercourse on the officer. And many of you may remember from my own campaign, my travails with Representative David Almond of Stanly County.

For those who do not recollect, Representative Almond took it upon himself to contact the North Carolina Attorney General regarding political emails from my campaign. Representative Almond was unwilling or unable to simply find and use the “delete” button on his computer. He instead chose to waste taxpayer dollars and both my and the Attorney General’s time by filing a complaint instead of representing the interests of his constituents.

Since my campaign is over, Mr. Almond has found something else to occupy his time – masturbation while in his legislative office. As if this was not bad enough, his poor 60 year old staffer inadvertently interrupted Mr. Almond’s auto-erotic activity and was then treated to his sexual overtures. While no one but Mr. Almond and the staffer know what exactly occurred, Mr. Almond promptly resigned his seat.

As if these examples were not bad enough, we have evidence of improprieties and corruption. When Jim Black was sentenced last month, he blurted out that a lobbyist named Don Beason had given him a large loan to the tune of $500,000.

Perhaps it was legal at the time, but I question the propriety of such acts. Should Mr. Beason even have done this? Where did he get that kind of money to make such a sizeable loan? We are not talking about $5.00 or $1,000.00 but about $500,000.00. Who among us is so wealthy that we can afford to loan this kind of money to someone? And without promissory notes and collateral? And just who is Mr. Beason anyway?

Mr. Beason began his career as a Republican staffer and served as an aide to various officials. It seems that his time was well spent as he later became a lobbyist. However, he did not confine his lobbying to just Republicans. He assiduously worked both sides of the aisle and received glowing endorsements from legislators regardless of party affiliation.

We now know of his lobbying activities. Mr. Beason’s clients, like BB&T, have rushed to distance themselves from him. Perhaps his corporate clients really did not know of his activities strolling about the legislature, crafting bills and making loans to our state legislators. Perhaps they knew and gave tacit approval with a nod and a wink. How many other legislators received loans or other favors from Mr. Beason or his clients? Did such loans or favors influence votes? And even though Mr. Beason’s career has been brought to a halt, how many more Don Beasons roam the halls of our legislature? How many other lobbyists are wielding the kind of power he had to schmooze with our legislators and write bills?

We will never know, because of the abysmal lack of curiosity of the mainstream media. Instead of jumping all over this scandal, they have hurried to wipe it off the front page and put this behind us. Why? The federal authorities who went after Jim Black knew about the loan. But where is our media?

We are greeted with silence. When pressed, the mainstream media hems and haws. They state that that they cannot just print rumor, while ignoring the fact that no one is asking them to do so. We are asking them to research the evidence and print the facts, no matter where it leads and no matter whether it is a Republican or Democrat who is involved. However, the media’s excuse is laughable coming from the very same journalists that had no problem labeling me as “crazy” and a “nutcase” despite lack of facts or even a scintilla of evidence. The real truth is that they have no problem whatsoever in printing innuendo, rumor or gossip when it benefits their agenda.

No, the mainstream media is too busy attending press dinners and cozying up to those in power to engage in real journalism. They are all too willing to hide the truth, as it may hurt their access to politicians. Or worse, they will actually have to do work to sift through the evidence to get at the facts and will not be spoon-fed the information anymore. No, we can’t have that. And so subscriptions continue to decline and all but the very die-hards choose alternatives to talk radio.

If it sounds like I’m angry, I am. I am very angry about how our mainstream media has failed us so miserably. I am angry that our elected leaders are either corrupt or perverts or both, while good people who dare to run for office or otherwise do right are vilified and destroyed. I am angry about the lack of justice in our courts. I am angry about the KGB-like tactics employed by the police who are ostensibly there to protect us, not assault and arrest us like the Ron Paul Supporters Kuhn family flying the American Flag unside down in Asheville, North Carolina in their front yard.

It is time to stop all of this. When are those among you who slumber on going to wake up and see what is going on? Although many of you have woken up and know what is occurring, waking up is not enough. We must act. Many of you feel helpless to do something, I know.

We cannot continue to vote for Tweedle-Dumb and Tweedle-Dumber. We need a real choice. Sometimes it is out there and people are running as Democrats or Republicans. Find them. A third party is another option and one that we desparately need as the Democratic leadership in Washington, D.C. has failed us. And sometimes it is just standing up and saying no. It is not tolerating the attempt to legitimatize illegal immigration so that corporations can enjoy cheap labor or stopping the Dubai ports deal. It is demanding that Congress act now to impeach the president and vice president and to stop being cowed or intimidated by those in power.

Demand that our legislators not take bribes, gifts, loans, trips, donations or anything of significant value from lobbyists. There should be full disclosure of donations and a rule prohibiting donations from any PACS, unions or other associations. And why should any lobbyist even be allowed entry into our legislative halls, let alone have a hand in drafting legislation? Plenty of legislators want our vote at election time but screw us the rest of the time. Hold them accountable. No action, then no vote and get them out of office. And demand paper ballots, so that the elections cannot be rigged as with electronic voting.

All this and more you, the ordinary citizen, have the power to do. For if you do not, then what is coming is not pretty. We have seen mortgage companies go bankrupt and watch banks and the Federal Reserve try to avert the crisis. The cost of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan is taking its toll. The Chinese were willing to have our jobs, but are they willing to keep buying our debt? The house of cards is going to collapse.

An old Roman Senator once got the brilliant idea that all slaves in Rome should wear a certain garb to identify and separate themselves from the Roman Senators and other free citizens. After his law was passed, it was quickly noticed by the senators that if the law were not repealed, that the slaves would soon revolt as they would come to the realization that they far outnumbered the Roman senatorial class.

We are the slaves. And we outnumber our masters. Take control and take charge of our destiny.

Rachel Lea Hunter

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