Religious dialogue is rather limited in Saudi Arabia
In principle, this is an encouraging development:
"Representatives of the Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) are taking part in a conference on interfaith dialogue being held in the Muslim holy city of Mecca.
"The three-day conference, attended by hundreds of Islamic scholars and religious leaders from throughout the world, is part of a recently-announced initiative by Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah to promote dialogue between Muslims and followers of other faiths."
American Muslim leaders participating in the conference include CAIR National Board Member Larry Shaw, a state senator from North Carolina, the organization said in a news release.
It referred readers to this AP story ... which reported that a senior Iranian official used the forum to criticize the United States. So, some politics as usual.
Here's a report on the conclusion of the conference from Middle East Online. Its lead:
"Muslim scholars meeting in Saudi Arabia wrapped up a three-day conference Friday by calling for efforts to boost dialogue with Christians and Jews.
"Wrapping up a three-day international conference in the Muslim holy city of Mecca, the scholars urged the creation of the King Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz International Centre for Connection between Civilisations in honour of their Saudi host."
That's all well and good, and I hope the effort yields some positive results. We need more dialogue and understanding.
But I have to note the irony of the location of this conference. Mecca is off limits to non-Muslims. Not only could Christians and Jews not participate in this conference, they couldn't attend as observers. And news coverage could be provided only by Muslims.
And if this new international center is located anywhere in Saudi Arabia, that will raise the further irony of the lack of religious freedom within the entire kingdom. Christians, Jews and other non-Muslims who visit would not be allowed to practice their religion openly or even possess Bibles or other religious texts.
It's hard to promote understanding among people of different faiths in a country where only one faith is recognized or tolerated.
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Hand in hand with your point is the inability of the people criticize the government. Check out this piece in the Forward about Arabs looking on at Israel's political scandals.
Posted on June 7, 2008 10:11 AM
Analysis of a News Release from the website, Middle-East Online
First Published 2008-06-07
http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=26329
(Interjections placed within the following text are for clarification of the true meaning behind the statements.)
MECCA, Saudi Arabia - Muslim scholars meeting in Saudi Arabia wrapped up a three-day conference Friday by calling for efforts to boost dialogue with Christians and Jews.
(As noted in Doug Clark's article, infidels are forbidden to enter Mecca, supposedly a city dedicated to the enshrinement of monotheistic, non-idolatrous values, wherein the followers of Islam have as their ultimate objective the kissing of a black rock – most likely a chondritic meteorite – which was among the many polytheistic idols previously located in the same shrine before Islam declared it to be an Islamic shrine.)
Wrapping up a three-day international conference in the Muslim holy city of Mecca, the scholars urged the creation of the King Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz International Centre for Connection between civilisations" in honour of their Saudi host.
(Certainly the Centre would not be in honour of anything non-Islamic.)
They also called for the creation of an international prize named after the king for "figures and international organisations that contribute to advancing the dialogue in order to reach its objectives," a final statement said.
(It is important to clarify just what, exactly, the final objectives of any Islamic initiative might be. In this particular case, the objective must be to placate the non-Islamic participants into accepting an Islamic agenda, while encouraging the belief that such an acceptance is in the best interests of the non-Islamic participants. It must be the objective of all Islamic initiatives to further the goals of Islam, to the ultimate end of creating a world in which Islam is the only religion. Any means by which this master objective is accomplished is justified and encouraged in the Qur'an by Allah through his prophet, Muhammad, as revealed to Muhammad by the angel Gabriel.)
The scholars called on the king to bring together specialists from the Christian, Jewish and Muslim religions and other beliefs "to agree on a format for a fruitful world dialogue that would contribute to solving problems faced today by mankind."
(In the Islamist world-view, the only real problem facing mankind is that the world has not yet fully embraced Islamic doctrine and submitted to the will of Allah. The peace of Allah can only exist when Allah and his Messenger are accepted as the only source of truth and law.)
In a statement reported by the official Saudi Press Agency, the scholars also stressed the need for dialogue with other religions to give a "correct picture of Islam" and to reach "out to other sects of Islam, which will lead to uniting the nation."
(The "correct picture of Islam" in this case means anything but the true picture of Islam. The "correct picture of Islam" means a picture which portrays Islam as benign and peaceful, a circumstance that has never been true. Reaching out to the other sects of Islam to unite "nation" means to unite the Islamic nation against any and all other non-believing nations – it does not mean to unite them with any and all other infidels. The need to unite is corollary to the imperative in the Qur'an to convert the whole world to Islam.)
In March, Abdullah proposed talks among the three largest monotheistic religions in a first for the kingdom, which is home to two of the three holiest shrines in Islam.
(The third of the three holiest Islamic shrines is in Israel, of course. Located in Jerusalem, The Dome of the Rock contains what Jews believe is the rock used in the sacrifice of Abraham. Much later, Islamists maintained the rock represents the point from which Muhammad ascended to heaven.)
"The difference between nations in beliefs and cultures are God's will, so they should use their common values as a base for cooperation that would be for their benefit," the statement said.
(Values, such as a belief in monotheism, which Islam purports to advocate, are common to the Jewish and Christian faiths. Islam, however, does not accept Christianity as a monotheistic faith. Instead, the Trinity of Christian belief is considered in Islam to be polytheism. Islam teaches that Allah has no need of any partners, such as Christ, or the Holy Spirit. It is interesting that the in the Arabic language version of the Qur'an that Allah frequently refers to himself in the plural and plural possessive.)
But the scholars insisted that dialogue should not mean abandoning their principles and their religion's fundamentals.
(Again, this simply is a message to any Islamist concerned that Islamic values are being watered down, that the ultimate objective of world domination by Islam is still operative.)
"A constructive dialogue and peaceful coexistence and cooperation between the followers of (God's) messages and others does not mean abandoning the axioms, or giving up the religion fundamentals," the statement said.
(Ditto. No, wait... double ditto. Look how the statement separates the world into "followers of (God's) messages," and "others." The Qur'an charges all followers of Islam with the duty to defeat infidels by any means at their disposal, most particularly at this time, deceit and dissemination.)
The participants also called upon the Mecca-based Muslim League, which hosted the conference, to set up an international Islamic committee to put together a common strategy for the inter-faith dialogue.
(Read: How can we fool them today, as we infiltrate their societies and eat them out from within.)
Shiite Iranian politician Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani also attended the conference, and on the first day sat at Abdullah's left in a gesture of unity between the two major sects in Islam.
(All nineteen perpetrators of the 9/11 atrocity were Saudi. As an Iranian, Rafsanjani represents the strongest non-Arab Islamist state. As such, the union between them represents the spearhead of the third wave of Islamic expansionism. The first wave ended in AD 732, when Charles "The Hammer" Martel defeated the Islamic thrust from Spain (al Andalus) in the Battle of Tours. The second wave of Islamic expansion ended at the Battle of Vienna, after Vienna had been besieged by the Ottoman Empire for two months. It took an alliance of Polish, Austrian, and German forces to defeat the Ottoman army. The Battle of Vienna took place on September 11, 1683. Wait, September 11th sounds vaguely familiar doesn't it. Isn't it interesting that nowhere, not once, anywhere in any of the major news outlets (or in any other news source, for that matter...) has that FACT been driven home. I suppose, they didn't want to alert the general public to the fact that September 11th was deliberately chosen as the official beginning of the third wave of Islamic expansionism. Why, that might be prejudicial and inflammatory. After all, Islam is the Religion of Peace... right?)
Posted on June 7, 2008 11:39 AM
I suppose, they didn't want to alert the general public to the fact that September 11th was deliberately chosen as the official beginning of the third wave of Islamic expansionism.*Rick Eichhorn
What for? The biggest secret meeting on the planet is going on and you fools think 9/11 was a Muslin conspiracy to bring down western religious civilization.
http://www.wearechange.org/
Bilderberg Attendee List 2008
Chantilly, Virginia, USA
5-8 June 2008
CURRENT LIST OF PARTICIPANTS
Honorary Chairman
BEL Davignon, Etienne Vice Chairman, Suez-Tractebel
DEU Ackermann, Josef Chairman of the Management Board and the Group Executive Committee, Deutsche Bank AG
CAN Adams, John Associate Deputy Minister of National Defence and Chief of the Communications Security Establishment Canada
USA Ajami, Fouad Director, Middle East Studies Program, The Paul H. Nitze School of Advanced International Studies, The Johns Hopkins University
USA Alexander, Keith B. Director, National Security Agency
INT Almunia, Joaquín Commissioner, European Commission
GRC Alogoskoufis, George Minister of Economy and Finance
USA Altman, Roger C. Chairman, Evercore Partners Inc.
TUR Babacan, Ali Minister of Foreign Affairs
NLD Balkenende, Jan Peter Prime Minister
PRT Balsemão, Francisco Pinto Chairman and CEO, IMPRESA, S.G.P.S.; Former Prime Minister
FRA Baverez, Nicolas Partner, Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP
ITA Bernabè, Franco CEO, Telecom Italia Spa
USA Bernanke, Ben S. Chairman, Board of Governors, Federal Reserve System
SWE Bildt, Carl Minister of Foreign Affairs
FIN Blåfield, Antti Senior Editorial Writer, Helsingin Sanomat
DNK Bosse, Stine CEO, TrygVesta
CAN Brodie, Ian Chief of Staff, Prime Minister's Office
AUT Bronner, Oscar Publisher and Editor, Der Standard
FRA Castries, Henri de Chairman of the Management Board and CEO, AXA
ESP Cebrián, Juan Luis CEO, PRISA
CAN Clark, Edmund President and CEO, TD Bank Financial Group
GBR Clarke, Kenneth Member of Parliament
NOR Clemet, Kristin Managing Director, Civita
USA Collins, Timothy C. Senior Managing Director and CEO, Ripplewood Holdings, LLC
FRA Collomb, Bertrand Honorary Chairman, Lafarge
PRT Costa, António Mayor of Lisbon
USA Crocker, Chester A. James R. Schlesinger Professor of Strategic Studies
USA Daschle, Thomas A. Former US Senator and Senate Majority Leader
CAN Desmarais, Jr., Paul Chairman and co-CEO, Power Corporation of Canada
GRC Diamantopoulou, Anna Member of Parliament
USA Donilon, Thomas E. Partner, O'Melveny & Myers
ITA Draghi, Mario Governor, Banca d'Italia
AUT Ederer, Brigitte CEO, Siemens AG Österreich
CAN Edwards, N. Murray Vice Chairman, Candian Natural Resources Limited
DNK Eldrup, Anders President, DONG A/S
ITA Elkann, John Vice Chairman, Fiat S.p.A.
USA Farah, Martha J. Director, Center for Cognitive Neuroscience;
Walter H. Annenberg Professor in the Natural Sciences, University of Pennsylvania
USA Feldstein, Martin S. President and CEO, National Bureau of Economic Research
DEU Fischer, Joschka Former Minister of Foreign Affairs
USA Ford, Jr., Harold E. Vice Chairman, Merill Lynch & Co., Inc.
CHE Forstmoser, Peter Professor for Civil, Corporation and Capital Markets Law, University of Zürich
IRL Gallagher, Paul Attorney General
USA Geithner, Timothy F. President and CEO, Federal Reserve Bank of New York
USA Gigot, Paul Editorial Page Editor, The Wall Street Journal
IRL Gleeson, Dermot Chairman, AIB Group
NLD Goddijn, Harold CEO, TomTom
TUR Gö?ü?, Zeynep Journalist; Founder, EurActiv.com.tr
USA Graham, Donald E. Chairman and CEO, The Washington Post Company
NLD Halberstadt, Victor Professor of Economics, Leiden University; Former Honorary Secretary General of Bilderberg Meetings
USA Holbrooke, Richard C. Vice Chairman, Perseus, LLC
FIN Honkapohja, Seppo Member of the Board, Bank of Finland
INT Hoop Scheffer, Jaap G. de Secretary General, NATO
USA Hubbard, Allan B. Chairman, E & A Industries, Inc.
BEL Huyghebaert, Jan Chairman of the Board of Directors, KBC Group
DEU Ischinger, Wolfgang Former Ambassador to the UK and US
USA Jacobs, Kenneth Deputy Chairman, Head of Lazard U.S., Lazard Frères & Co. LLC
USA Johnson, James A. Vice Chairman, Perseus, LLC
SWE Johnstone, Tom President and CEO, AB SKF
USA Jordan, Jr., Vernon E. Senior Managing Director, Lazard Frères & Co. LLC
FRA Jouyet, Jean-Pierre Minister of European Affairs
GBR Kerr, John Member, House of Lords; Deputy Chairman, Royal Dutch Shell plc.
USA Kissinger, Henry A. Chairman, Kissinger Associates, Inc.
DEU Klaeden, Eckart von Foreign Policy Spokesman, CDU/CSU
USA Kleinfeld, Klaus President and COO, Alcoa
TUR Koç, Mustafa Chairman, Koç Holding A.S.
FRA Kodmani, Bassma Director, Arab Reform Initiative
USA Kravis, Henry R. Founding Partner, Kohlberg Kravis Roberts & Co.
USA Kravis, Marie-Josée Senior Fellow, Hudson Institute, Inc.
INT Kroes, Neelie Commissioner, European Commission
POL Kwasniewski, Aleksander Former President
AUT Leitner, Wolfgang CEO, Andritz AG
ESP León Gross, Bernardino Secretary General, Office of the Prime Minister
INT Mandelson, Peter Commissioner, European Commission
FRA Margerie, Christophe de CEO, Total
CAN Martin, Roger Dean, Joseph L. Rotman School of Management, University of Toronto
HUN Martonyi, János Professor of International Trade Law; Partner, Baker & McKenzie; Former Minister of Foreign Affairs
USA Mathews, Jessica T. President, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace
INT McCreevy, Charlie Commissioner, European Commission
USA McDonough, William J. Vice Chairman and Special Advisor to the Chairman, Merrill Lynch & Co., Inc.
CAN McKenna, Frank Deputy Chair, TD Bank Financial Group
GBR McKillop, Tom Chairman, The Royal Bank of Scotland Group
FRA Montbrial, Thierry de President, French Institute for International Relations
ITA Monti, Mario President, Universita Commerciale Luigi Bocconi
USA Mundie, Craig J. Chief Research and Strategy Officer, Microsoft Corporation
NOR Myklebust, Egil Former Chairman of the Board of Directors SAS, Norsk Hydro ASA
DEU Nass, Matthias Deputy Editor, Die Zeit
NLD Netherlands, H.M. the Queen of the
FRA Ockrent, Christine CEO, French television and radio world service
FIN Ollila, Jorma Chairman, Royal Dutch Shell plc
SWE Olofsson, Maud Minister of Enterprise and Energy; Deputy Prime Minister
NLD Orange, H.R.H. the Prince of
GBR Osborne, George Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer
TUR Öztrak, Faik Member of Parliament
ITA Padoa-Schioppa, Tommaso Former Minister of Finance; President of Notre Europe
GRC Papahelas, Alexis Journalist, Kathimerini
GRC Papalexopoulos, Dimitris CEO, Titan Cement Co. S.A.
USA Paulson, Jr., Henry M. Secretary of the Treasury
USA Pearl, Frank H. Chairman and CEO, Perseus, LLC
USA Perle, Richard N. Resident Fellow, American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research
FRA Pérol, François Deputy General Secretary in charge of Economic Affairs
DEU Perthes, Volker Director, Stiftung Wissenschaft und Politik
BEL Philippe, H.R.H. Prince
CAN Prichard, J. Robert S. President and CEO, Torstar Corporation
CAN Reisman, Heather M. Chair and CEO, Indigo Books & Music Inc.
USA Rice, Condoleezza Secretary of State
PRT Rio, Rui Mayor of Porto
USA Rockefeller, David Former Chairman, Chase Manhattan Bank
ESP Rodriguez Inciarte, Matias Executive Vice Chairman, Grupo Santander
USA Rose, Charlie Producer, Rose Communications
DNK Rose, Flemming Editor, Jyllands Posten
USA Ross, Dennis B. Counselor and Ziegler Distinguished Fellow, The Washington Institute for Near East Policy
USA Rubin, Barnett R. Director of Studies and Senior Fellow, Center for International Cooperation, New York University
TUR ?ahenk, Ferit Chairman, Do?u? Holding A.?.
USA Sanford, Mark Governor of South Carolina
USA Schmidt, Eric Chairman of the Executive Committee and CEO, Google
AUT Scholten, Rudolf Member of the Board of Executive Directors, Oesterreichische Kontrollbank AG
DNK Schur, Fritz H. Fritz Schur Gruppen
CZE Schwarzenberg, Karel Minister of Foreign Affairs
USA Sebelius, Kathleen Governor of Kansas
USA Shultz, George P. Thomas W. and Susan B. Ford Distinguished Fellow, Hoover Institution, Stanford University
ESP Spain, H.M. the Queen of
CHE Spillmann, Markus Editor-in-Chief and Head Managing Board, Neue Zürcher Zeitung AG
USA Summers, Lawrence H. Charles W. Eliot Professor, Harvard University
GBR Taylor, J. Martin Chairman, Syngenta International AG
USA Thiel, Peter A. President, Clarium Capital Management, LLC
NLD Timmermans, Frans Minister of European Affairs
RUS Trenin, Dmitri V. Deputy Director and Senior Associate, Carnegie Moscow Center
INT Trichet, Jean-Claude President, European Central Bank
USA Vakil, Sanam Assistant Professor of Middle East Studies, The Paul H. Nitze School of Advanced International Studies, Johns Hopkins University
FRA Valls, Manuel Member of Parliament
GRC Varvitsiotis, Thomas Co-Founder and President, V + O Communication
CHE Vasella, Daniel L. Chairman and CEO, Novartis AG
FIN Väyrynen, Raimo Director, The Finnish Institute of International Affairs
FRA Védrine, Hubert Hubert Védrine Conseil
NOR Vollebaek, Knut High Commissioner on National Minorities, OSCE
SWE Wallenberg, Jacob Chairman, Investor AB
USA Weber, J. Vin CEO, Clark & Weinstock
USA Wolfensohn, James D. Chairman, Wolfensohn & Company, LLC
USA Wolfowitz, Paul Visiting Scholar, American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research
INT Zoellick, Robert B. President, The World Bank Group
Rapporteurs
GBR Bredow, Vendeline von Business Correspondent, The Economist
GBR Wooldridge, Adrian D. Foreign Correspondent, The Economist
AUT Austria HUN Hungary
BEL Belgium INT International
CHE Switzerland IRL Ireland
CAN Canada ITA Italy
CZE Czech Republic NOR Norway
DEU Germany NLD Netherlands
DNK Denmark PRT Portugal
ESP Spain POL Poland
FRA France RUS Russia
FIN Finland SWE Sweden
GBR Great Britain TUR Turkey
GRC Greece USA United States of America
Posted on June 7, 2008 8:45 PM
Wow, Connie Mack Jr., you sure impressed me with that list of people. Why don't you explain to me just what part of the Bildeberg conspiracy each one of them plays so that I will know as much as you. Maybe then I can sound like you, all enthusiastic and everything.
You're right. Muhammad was really a loving and kind man, and over a billion adherents add nothing but peace and kindness to the world. My bad for not realizing that Islam poses no threat to Western civilization, assuming there is such a thing. But I've got it now: "It's the Bildebergs, stupid."
You chose one sarcastic remark I made, which taken out of context makes me look pretty stupid, and extrapolated from it that I'm obviously suffering from gross ignorance of the real truth. That's like me saying that something is "pie in the sky" and you then pointing out that space aliens have got me believing that the atmosphere is a great source of desert. (Not that I don't believe in space aliens, mind you.)
Posted on June 7, 2008 10:40 PM
Wow, Connie Mack Jr., you sure impressed me with that list of people.* Stunned Rick
Dear Rick! It appears that you are much dumber than we had thought or blind or simply that you can't read!
You will notice that the list is put out by a group called the Friends of Bilerberg thus making it more impressive then me. I had no idea that you were into rich white folks that impress you.
Why don't you explain to me just what part of the Bildeberg conspiracy each one of them plays so that I will know as much as you. Maybe then I can sound like you, all enthusiastic and everything.* Rick
Listen Rick! Anybody can be into conspiracies like the recent Republican claim in Iraq that those missing WMD's were move by Yellow freight in the middle of night to Downtown Greensboro and located under Doug editorial desk. And stop trying to suck up to me man! I am a man of the masses.
You're right. Muhammad was really a loving and kind man,* Rick
Dumbee! Muhammand married a very rich widow!How do you think any revolutionary movement gets started?
and over a billion adherents add nothing but peace and kindness to the world. My bad for not realizing that Islam poses no threat to Western civilization, assuming there is such a thing. But I've got it now: "It's the Bildebergs, stupid." * Rick
More than that Rick! It appears that you are not into very rich corporate goat riding and making it to the top of the old pyramid.
You chose one sarcastic remark I made, which taken out of context makes me look pretty stupid, and extrapolated from it that I'm obviously suffering from gross ignorance of the real truth. That's like me saying that something is "pie in the sky" and you then pointing out that space aliens have got me believing that the atmosphere is a great source of desert. (Not that I don't believe in space aliens, mind you.)* Rick
Rick! If you are that insecure about a comment. I suggest that you spent more time with a Alien Lizard therapy incounter group and work out your agressive feeling toward them before they fry your butt with a nuke.
Posted on June 8, 2008 12:10 AM
Connie Mack Jr., your temper smacks of hydrophobia, and your command of the English language is an oxymoron, with the emphasis on "moron."
Posted on June 8, 2008 10:50 AM
Connie Mack Jr., your temper smacks of hydrophobia, and your command of the English language is an oxymoron, with the emphasis on "moron."* Rick
Good for you Rick! So it's all about not being a inside member of the Bildgerbergs that has bought you to personal attacks as a "Rumiuator"
Now knock yourself out and find what Rumiuator means in English?
Posted on June 8, 2008 5:28 PM