News-Record.com

You folks at the Ruse & Wreckered wish it
was Biden by a mile . . . but a young mother
of five, who is relatively inexperienced and a newcomer to national politics, bested a Washington insider who has been a US senator for 35 years -

Doug, you might have a point if anyone was paying attention to Biden, but they weren't.

That is why Sarah Palin won. She took over the debate, the focus was on her, and Biden was there to fill in time until it was Palin's turn again.

She was the far more effective communicator and that is what counts in these debates.

All the polls after the debate have Biden winning by miles. Palin satisfies the base, but doesn't seem to do anything for anyone who wouldn't have voted for McCain anyway. And effective communicator? She didn't even answer the questions she was asked. She can recite talking points, but can't seem to do much else. If she got a question she hadn't memorized an answer for, she just talked about something that was at best tangentially related. She did however manage to exceed expectations by not seeming a blithering idiot, so in that sense maybe she "won." I'm glad the Republican Party has such high standards for our leaders.

And incidentally did you notice she said she thinks the vice president should have more power? And that the Constitution should be changed to make it so? That's comforting.

I want to see the fact checkers results. Karl Rove said he had 10 factual errors (not opinions) that Biden stated during the debate.
I loved it when Palin called Biden Senator Obiden.
Doug, your "by a mile" may be wishful thinking.

The one polls , I have seen Palin 68-32 over Biden. So Andrew you are not telling the truth!
Like father like son, there is no such thing as a good republican.

The poll has just been updated. Palin 68- 30.
Must be Biden, in death experience in Iraq, has come out. Are could it be his statement Roosevelt should have got on tv during the great depression! Things the LIBERAL press, some how forgot to print!

Two other polls Cnn Biden 49-48
People pol Pal 60-39.
Knutz poll, many switched to McCain, because of Plain outstanding performance. Showed she in touch with average American.
CNN, Palin did very well. That should say it all, when these liberals say she did well! Of course the NR will be filled with letters telling us how bad she did.
New Poll Fox call in poll Palin by a mile.
Folks should channel hop and get many opinions. Bye two golf tournaments today.

My take on it before I fell asleep was that Biden Came across as the standard Washington insider, business as usual politician with a velvet tongue making the same old political promises we hear every 4 years.

That's status-quo, not change.

Not wishful thinking, folks. I don't support the Obama-Biden ticket, but I'm disappointed in the McCain-Palin ticket. I like Sarah Palin, but she's just not ready for the vice presidency.

If she were an effective communicator, she could have answered Biden effectively.

On the war, for example. Why did she let Biden get away with saying Obama has a plan to end the war and McCain doesn't? Obama has no plan to end the war. He has a plan to pull our troops out of the war, leaving it to the Iraqi government and army to fight the terrorists and insurgents on their own. It's our Vietnam 1973 strategy all over again, and it could lead to Vietnam 1975 all over again. Palin was right to say we have to win the war and for accusing the Dems of planning to surrender, but she wasn't convincing because she didn't drive home the point in detail that pulling U.S. troops out too soon would invite an escalation of the war and perhaps force us to return later at greater cost.

If she were an effective communicator, she would have defended McCain more convincingly instead of simply repeating ad nauseam that he's a maverick. Give some more examples, and then when Biden rattles off citations showing McCain is not a maverick, answer with examples showing why Obama and Biden are not agents of change but traditional Dem liberals.

If she were an effective communicator, when Biden called Cheney the most dangerous vice president ever, she would have said, "Come on, Joe. Dick Cheney never shot anyone fatally. Aaron Burr killed Alexander Hamilton, for gosh sake!" She missed a lot of opportunities.

In some instances, her answers didn't even relate to the questions at all. I wish she had impressed me with her knowledge but she didn't.

Doug,

the wishful thinking of your right wing entourage is certainly dissapointed in your accurate assessment of the debate. While i rarely agree with you, this time I think you've got it nailed. She is not ready for prime time.

I'm not happy to be right this time.

Hey, Andrew, when are you getting any sleep?

Doug Johnson,
CNN: Biden 51/36
CBS: Biden 46/21

I just noticed this second poll was of "uncommitted voters" while the first was all viewers.

Call in polls can't be relied upon for accuracy because the samples are skewed, particularly a place like Fox News where the vast majority of its viewers are conservative. I'm not sure I understood this:

"Like father like son, there is no such thing as a good Republican."

I am most certainly not a Republican, and am certainly nowhere near my dad on political issues. Believe me, as I know from many arguments, he does not want the Obama/Biden ticket to do well. I however do.

Dad, I ended up goingto a debate party. What can I say? It's DC, people are really into the political theater. It ended up going late for some of us. Work's going to be fun today.

The problem is while Biden showed a command of the facts, too often he was actually wrong on the facts as Factcheck.org points out. Palin was wrong on some matters, too, so that ends up a wash.

So if Biden scores points on erroneous facts and gets key facts wrong, it then comes down to performance, and Palin simply dominated the forum.

AOL poll

Palin 47%

Gasbag 45%

out 448,000 votes

At the risk of copyright infringment, here is what Fact Check.org said:

"Palin mistakenly claimed that troop levels in Iraq had returned to “pre-surge” levels. Levels are gradually coming down but current plans would have levels higher than pre-surge numbers through early next year, at least.

Biden incorrectly said “John McCain voted the exact same way” as Obama on a controversial troop funding bill. The two were actually on opposite sides.

Palin repeated a false claim that Obama once voted in favor of higher taxes on “families” making as little as $42,000 a year. He did not. The budget bill in question called for an increase only on singles making that amount, but a family of four would not have been affected unless they made at least $90,000 a year.

Biden wrongly claimed that McCain “voted the exact same way” as Obama on the budget bill that contained an increase on singles making as little as $42,000 a year. McCain voted against it. Biden was referring to an amendment that didn't address taxes at that income level.

Palin claimed McCain’s health care plan would be “budget neutral,” costing the government nothing. Independent budget experts estimate McCain's plan would cost tens of billions each year, though details are too fuzzy to allow for exact estimates.

Biden wrongly claimed that McCain had said "he wouldn't even sit down" with the government of Spain. Actually, McCain didn't reject a meeting, but simply refused to commit himself one way or the other during an interview.

Palin wrongly claimed that “millions of small businesses” would see tax increases under Obama’s tax proposals. At most, several hundred thousand business owners would see increases."

Thanks, John. They both kept the fact checkers busy. My post didn't deal with their command of the facts but with my immediate impression of their debate performances. That said, I can go back and reassess in light of the facts, which are kind of important.

Fred, the note on the AOL poll reads as follows:

Poll results are not scientific and reflect the opinions of only those who choose to participate.

In other words, there's no reason to believe this poll in any way reflects actual public opion.

Fred, the note on the AOL poll reads as follows:

Poll results are not scientific and reflect the opinions of only those who choose to participate.

In other words, there's no reason to believe this poll in any way reflects actual public opinion.

Doug, I'm afraid that five weeks exposure to McCain and his useless advisors has not been good for Palin. She is certainly not the Sarah of her fabulous convention speech. She is unfortunateluy beginning to sound like McCain, rather than herself. I understand that is her job but.....!

Three times she mwntioned that Wall Street crooks, but not once the uber corrupt Fannie and Freddie crooks who used the agencies as personal piggy banks to enrich themselves as their companies were crumbling and helping create the mortgage disaster. McCain has no problem going after Republican failures, but won't touch the massive Democrat footprint at Fannie and Freddie. By now we've all seen the videos showing the Democrats circle the wagons aroud Raines while attacking the regulator who was detailing the corrupt practices at Fannie Mae. Palin could have killed Biden with this one, but was apparently instucted by McCain not to touch it.

Then there was her jumping on the climate change bandwagon, despite the complete lack of undeniable scientific evidence detailing climate change, or the reasons for the change. This was a different position from the one she had when she first showed up.

She also missed a great opportunity to kill Biden on the drilling issue. The overwhelming majority of us now want drilling, and soon. She could have used the Institute for Energy Research saying that offshore drilling is responsible for ONE percent of oil spills, while more than 60 percent is NATURAL. So when Biden talks of "raping" the OCS, she could have ripped his heart out.

She did connect with the people. The "charm" difference between Palin and Biden was obvious. She is us, Biden is a 35 year Washington insider who has helped us get to where we are today, having almost ZERO confidence in the congress.

When she gets the yolk that is McCain removed from her neck she will have a bright future in politics.

I'd like to see her run for the Senate. That way, she'd be elected by Alaskans, who like and trust her, but she could help shake up Washington. After gaining some national and international experience, she'd be ready for another national ticket by about 2016 or 2020.

Samuel Spagnola said:
Doug, you might have a point if anyone was paying attention to Biden, but they weren't.

That is why Sarah Palin won. She took over the debate, the focus was on her, and Biden was there to fill in time until it was Palin's turn again.

She was the far more effective communicator and that is what counts in these debates.

Oh come Sam! You are a obess internet Neo-Con Republican conservative anti-constitutional freak, You couldn't judge a debate between yourself and yourself without a offical National Football Refree who would have you on instant replay all day long.

Sam! Have you consider another career move since it appears that your law practice is merely a front for you.

Doug was right on the debate, Joey the Shark show that he is a total professional. Sara chances are excellent after the election since she just might be a 10 round draft choice for the Durham Bulls watergirl slot.

By the way Sam! I have order a set of Clear glasses for you to replace your dark shades of blind Republicism at any cost to the Republic.

"Then there was her jumping on the climate change bandwagon, despite the complete lack of undeniable scientific evidence detailing climate change, or the reasons for the change."

Hey Tony, here's an organization that I think is right up your alley.

Andrew,

And I suppose this was unscientific too, huh ?

Spag was spot on when he said:

"Whenever a Republican wins a debate like Sarah Palin did tonight, the press calls it a tie. Republicans never win debates according to the MSM"

That wasn't a poll, that was a focus group, Fred. I linked to something else.

Doug said:
If she were an effective communicator, when Biden called Cheney the most dangerous vice president ever, she would have said, "Come on, Joe. Dick Cheney never shot anyone fatally. Aaron Burr killed Alexander Hamilton, for gosh sake!" She missed a lot of opportunities.

Ha!

Your next career should definitely be Republican Debate Coach.

Also, Gov. Palin has single-handedly brought the word 'darn' back into my vocabulary.

Thanks, Evan. Good to hear from my favorite rock star:

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=54298777

Saw a Bumper sticker in the Krogers Parking today as mobs were buying Can goods like a Chinese Firedrill after the Bailout bill pass today in Congress.

" Palin for VP! The only flaw she has is McCain"

Spag was spot on when he said:

"Whenever a Republican wins a debate like Sarah Palin did tonight, the press calls it a tie. Republicans never win debates according to the MSM"* Fred

Sure they do! Your republican knowledge of political history is fuzzy here. In 1980 during the Republican presidental primary in New Hampshire. Ronald Reagan jerk the mic from George Bush and said he was paying for debate and for him to shut up after Bush said Ronnie was supporting VooDoo economics. Turns out that both were right after today congressional socialist fascist bailout bill.

Everybody said Reagan mopped the floor with Carter in 1980.

Doug,

Me thinks you are using Soledad math here.

My lying eyes tell me the hand hand count was dead even

Snap judgement

Soledad obviously saw what she wanted to see.

I'm not using anybody's math. I gave me impression, which was that Palin did not demonstrate a convincing command of the issues.

In spite of Doug's criticism, Sarah Palin did well in her debate, but she didn't fully remove some doubt that she is ready to be a successful president. Of course, the same has been said about Barack Obama.

Doug, Joe Biden's debate performance would have been more impressive, if he had actually been speaking facts, rather than stuff that he just made-up.

My opinion is that Gov. Palin won the debate because she manged to do something that Biden did not so. She connected with people on their own level. You can say she was to folksy, but when you consider it, Ronald Reagan did the same thing with the same style. Simply, he connected with people.

But, as been mentioned here previously, in this one debate, Gov. Palin did what she had to do. She did not lose the war for John McCain. It's still where it was, it is up to John McCain to win it. We are still faced with the proposition that to elect the Obama/Biden ticket, America will have to vote for the most extreme ticket in the history of the country. America has never elected an extreme ticket whether it be left or right. Will this be the first time, and if so, wil the country regret it for four years?

Doug,

And, Joe Biden demonstrated a convincing command of the issues? You've got to be kidding. When exactly did Joe Biden drive Hezbollah out of Lebanon?

Stormy,

You got that right. I think Doug is dwelling in
Biden's Fantasy World

"In the popular media wisdom, Sarah Palin is the neophyte who knows nothing about foreign policy while Joe Biden is the savvy diplomatic pro. Then what are we to make of Mr. Biden's fantastic debate voyage last week when he made factual claims that would have got Mrs. Palin mocked from New York to Los Angeles?"

'APStart with Lebanon, where Mr. Biden asserted that "When we kicked -- along with France, we kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon, I said and Barack said, 'Move NATO forces in there. Fill the vacuum, because if you don't know -- if you don't, Hezbollah will control it.' Now what's happened? Hezbollah is a legitimate part of the government in the country immediately to the north of Israel." '

"The U.S. never kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon, and no one else has either. Perhaps Mr. Biden meant to say Syria, except that the U.S. also didn't do that. The Lebanese ousted Syria's military in 2005. As for NATO, Messrs. Biden and Obama may have proposed sending alliance troops in, but if they did that was also a fantasy. The U.S. has had all it can handle trying to convince NATO countries to deploy to Afghanistan."

"Speaking of which, Mr. Biden also averred that "Our commanding general in Afghanistan said the surge principle in Iraq will not work in Afghanistan." In trying to correct him, Mrs. Palin mispronounced the general's name -- saying "General McClellan" instead of General David McKiernan. But Mr. Biden's claim was the bigger error, because General McKiernan said that while "Afghanistan is not Iraq," he also said a "sustained commitment" to counterinsurgency would be required. That is consistent with Mr. McCain's point that the "surge principles" of Iraq could work in Afghanistan."

'Then there's the Senator's astonishing claim that Mr. Obama "did not say he'd sit down with Ahmadinejad" without preconditions. Yet Mr. Biden himself criticized Mr. Obama on this point in 2007 at the National Press Club: "Would I make a blanket commitment to meet unconditionally with the leaders of each of those countries within the first year I was elected President? Absolutely, positively no." '

"Or how about his rewriting of Bosnia history to assert that John McCain didn't support President Clinton in the 1990s. "My recommendations on Bosnia, I admit I was the first one to recommend it. They saved tens of thousands of lives. And initially John McCain opposed it along with a lot of other people. But the end result was it worked." Mr. Biden's immodesty aside, Mr. McCain supported Mr. Clinton on Bosnia, as did Bob Dole even as he was running against him for President in 1996 -- in contrast to the way Mr. Biden and Democratic leaders have tried to undermine President Bush on Iraq."

"Closer to home, the Delaware blarney stone also invited Americans to join him at "Katie's restaurant" in Wilmington to witness middle-class struggles. Just one problem: Katie's closed in the 1980s. The mistake is more than a memory lapse because it exposes how phony is Mr. Biden's attempt to pose for this campaigns Lunchbucket Joe."

"We think the word "lie" is overused in politics today, having become a favorite of the blogosphere and at the New York Times. So we won't say Mr. Biden was deliberately making events up when he made these and other false statements. Perhaps he merely misspoke. In any case, Mrs. Palin may not know as much about the world as Mr. Biden does, but at least most of what she knows is true."