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Why don't you quit flogging a dead horse. The
Communist Party dared the Klan to come to the
rally. The Communists picked the location
to confront the Klan. Members of ther Communist
Party were armed.They wanted bloodshed and they
wanted it in a black family area to increase the
race factor. They wanted martyrs to further their
cause.The Communist deserve full responsibility
for what happened and for the deaths.
Let it go. Give it a permanent rest.

Thanks for sharing this perspective on this issue. Having had no contact/involvement whatsoever with the original tragedy, I have nothing relevant about the event to share with the TRC.

The only reason I have said anything at all is due to the pressure being put on city council to "bless" this "new" investigation. I feel I owe it to my constituents to explain my concerns about accuracy and bias since it appears city council will be forced to take a position. Otherwise, I would have had nothing to say about the TRC, pro or con.

Ms. Carmany, fair enough. But what is the harm in looking back at history for useful lessons and insights about who we are? What is there to dread?
Why have we repressed memories of this tragedy and why won't the Greensboro Historical Museum even acknowledge that Nov. 3 happened?
As I see it, the CWP has as much to answer for as anyone else. If the commissioners avoid these hard questions they surrender credibility and nobody will pay attention.
On the issue of this blighting Greensboro's image, I doubt the national media would be as interested in the story if they didn't sniff a conflict.
And I believe the city could actually gain in stature if it handled discussions of Nov. 3 more forthrightly and with more maturity.

Mr. Derence, you might want to see that unedited footage. I am not so sure the CWP, in its ridiculously poor judgment, expected the Klan to show up -- certainly not with a veritable arsenal of weapons.
According to Elizabeth Wheaton's excellent book on the shootings, "Code Name GreenKKKil,"
many of the CWP members were shocked and horrified at the Klan's shoot-to-kill attitude.
Nor do I excuse the CWP for daring to stage such a potentially volatile event in a neighborhood with families and children -- not their neighborhood, mind you, but somebody else's.
"We invite you and your two-bit punks to come out and face the wrath of the people," they goaded the Klan in irresponsible pre-rally rhetoric.
There were children at the protest who might have been killed by the Klan.
Here is one of Wheaton's accounts from the shootings involving the actions of one Klansman, 19-year-old Mark Sherer, during the confrontation:
"Yelling, 'Shoot the niggers,' Sherer took aim at a couple of black figures on the south side of Everitt. They were children. Frozen in their tracks. Crying. He raised his arm above his head and fired."
As for beating a dead horse, we do that every day in studying history about deceased people and events that have been over for hundreds of years.
We guard much of our history with pride and even ferocity, but we don't just learn from the pleasantries. We may, in fact, learn more from the less savory chapters of our past.
That mere fact that we don't want to talk about Nov. 3 means something.

Allen's right. The story, for the international press, isn't so much what happened in 1979. It's what's happening now: a City Council, and city, racially divided about the Commission's work. Why? And how can the city's elected officials look out at a Chamber full of black faces and say that "no one cares" about this? Do they really mean "no one that matters"? Whether they mean it or not, that is what it sounds like.

The bad feelings and mistrust are not going to go away until they are engaged. The mayor already stuck a toe in this water with the appointment of Judge McSwain. A community process installed the Commission. Why not follow through, participate, and hold it to the highest standards of fairness and accuracy? Does anyone have a better idea? Because all I'm hearing from opponents is criticism, personal accusations, and a lot of misinformation. How about some creative problem-solving?

How about the constituents who do care - at least 5,000 of them signed a petition? What if 5,000 white parents signed a petition calling for your blessing on a zoning-related matter? Why, if no one cares, does Mrs. Gatten feel the need to spend an hour a day quashing this effort? Couldn't her time as an elected official be better spent on something that people in the city do care about?

Why do I get the feeling I'm banging my head against a wall that Jim Melvin has already built?

The original investigation by the FBI and other agencies amounted to about 52 looseleaf notebooks, if I recall from the news coverage at the time. So what can be found by interviewing people about something that happened in 1975? Do they think the witnesses will have clearer memories now? Ridiculous.
I'll say this again, nothing good will come of this T&R thing. It's a political ploy to rewrite history in the slant of those doing the rewriting.

"A liberal with a cause is more dangerous than a Hell's Angel with an attitude."

This is the same mentality that is being used today with the North West Middle school hit list. Have you heard anymore about it? No! because The city and the county wants to sweep it under a rug.
We don't even know if there is still and investigation going on. If you remember Sheriff Barnes comment that this is probably just a joke. It sure seems like the sheriff department is treating it that way. Our sheriff mentality is just as lax as the security in Atl. We all know what happen in Atl. With the recent incident in Minn. You would think that our community would put every effort to find this person or group.

Well The original hit list was read to me. Belive me, this is not a joke. The letter was malicous and well written. You can feel the racial hate in this terrorist letter.

Yes, the letter has the making of another Columbine. The person or group did not act when they said that they would but the intent was there to kill. It may not be this year or next year. Maybe not at a school. Maybe a church,a mall or playground. This person is out there to hurt people of color.

In the letter,he or she single out 18 African american students, 3 European students and the assistant princilpe. The 3 European students were called out because he or she felt that they wanted to be black. The assistant principle was single out because she is an African American. The letter also stated that he or she will remind the niggers that they are still their slaves .

Out of 1350 student and faculty members, 49 are black. How do you think a child of 12-14 years of age feels. They are terrified. The assistant principle fears for her life. Some of the African American parents have pulled their children out from the school. Racial graffiti is still being smeared around the school. This problem has even infested The North West High School.

You would think this terrorist threat would come under the patriot act. The FBI says it can't get involve unless this has been clarified as a hate group.

It is obvious that the community, school board, and the Sheriff department have not taken accountability for this.

This is just another examble of Greensboro trying to sweep its dirt under the rug.

I had not heard of these problems. Will you address them further with us?
Are others also aware of such issues?

Allen Johnson’s thoughtful column (like Ed Cone’s a while back) makes a sensible case for the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. More specifically, it identifies me precisely: a virulently ambivalent onlooker to the whole project. Below, I’ve listed 5 reasons why I oppose the effort. And no, I won’t attend any meetings (to be shouted down by the majority) or reveal my name (since I believe that doing so would have negative consequences on my career).

(1) The Farcical Nature of it All. This is the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. You know, like the one in South Africa. Is there a difference between an oppressive system of racial injustice and a shootout between Communists and Klansmen? Yes. Is there a credibility problem when the leader of the Komrades is in charge of determining the Truth? Yes. By whom was the Commission commissioned? Itself. As old Karl would be the first to tell you, history repeats itself, first as tragedy, then as farce.

(2) Reconciliation? Between whom? Communists and Klansmen? No, between blacks and whites. Herein lies a major source of resentment, since this project structures whites as implicitly represented by the Klan and complicit in its actions. Many whites find this objectionable.

(3) The get-over-it syndrome. Many whites find the rehearsal of racial trauma—especially in its “Blame Whitey” incarnation—categorically tiresome, and even more so when hung on what they regard as an anomalous incident with little connection to broader social structures (see #2). Personally, I would welcome a similar effort directed toward the sit-ins, where such a connection is palpable and, in residual ways, still quite prominent. But with incidents like this, I say (quite emphatically), get over it. It that’s repressing, then I’m repressing.

(4) The Reeducation Dilemma. If you resist the logic of the Commission, then obviously you are against Truth. No? Then you must be against Reconciliation. Truly, you are in need of Reeducation, since your resistance is categorically unprincipled and, at best, a sign of pathological repression. Such logic is, in itself, off-putting to many in the sense that any transparently coercive ideological effort is. Double that when the outcomes are so clearly predetermined. (Does anyone seriously doubt what the “Truth” will look like?)

(5) The Anti-Communist Angle. Many on the Right (myself included) regard Communism (still) as an equally monstrous—not just technically failed, but morally culpable—ideology as Fascism. The body count isn’t even close, and the “failed idealism” angle doesn’t work for me. And 1979 was still Cold War. So there’s some resentment, I think, to the retroactive rehabilitation of Communism (=downtrodden, racially and economically oppressed victims) that lurks in this project.

Anonymous, that's probably the most comprehensive and well written argument against this farce that I've seen. You manage to cover all of the salient points on the major problems with this kind of whitewash effort.
I bow to your wordliness.

I, too, appreciate the thoughts shared by Anonymous.
The points are good ones (excepting the reference to Nelson Johnson being in charge of the Commission; he isn't. They were independently chosen and say they are not answerable to him or anyone else involved in the Truth and Reconciliation Project).
I don't subscribe to the tenets of communism, either. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't bother me when communists are shot down in cold blood ... for being communists. This is America. We don't do that here. At least we shouldn't.
Nor am I willing to predict what the commissioners will find in their inquiry.
If this is truly an honest, credible effort, they will ask hard questions of Johnson and others who organized the "Death to the Klan" march, among them:
1. Why dare the Klan to come with inflammatory rhetoric that invites a confrontation?
2. Why hold the rally in a community full of innocent bystanders, including children?
3. Why not participate in the trials and then cry injustice?
4. Why pick a fight with the Klan in the first place? And was the "Death to the Klan" angle merely a marketing ploy to gain support for union organizing?
There are plenty of hard questions to go around.
One final note: One way we deal with personal traumas is by repressing them -- by not acknowledging that they ever happened.
Communities do that, too. Perhaps if we get this community trauma out in the open with honest dialogue and constructive disagreement, we can finally move on.
And we can even learn something.
By the way, I'd love to hear Anonymous' views and those who disagree with him (or her) in person, in an honest, open dialogue.

Mr. Johnson, With all due respect I think there has been enough "acknowledgement" of what happened in 1979 between the KKK and CWP to last for at least the next 100 years.

As for community trauma, dialogue and open discussion I see an overwhelming majority of people telling you this is not a widespread need. In fact, I have read valid posts saying it could actually be bad for the city of Greensboro.

I am an outsider and possibly should not be involving myself in this issue. However, it is my observation that rather than listening to what folks are telling you, you seem to be seeking validation for the way you think. Perhaps I am being unfair and you are only trying to elicit futher dialogue on TRC. If this is the case, please accept my apology for jumping to the wrong conclusion.

No,I'm not seeking validation; I just value constructive discussion.
I also believe dialogue on Truth and Reconciliation could actually enhance Greensboro's image if we simply wouldn't resist it so much.
We ought not to fear discussing this as a community, even if we disagree.
I am a native of this town so I speak from experience when I say Greensboro historically has had trouble talking things out.
We prefer avoidance.

From my perspective people are not fearing anything but are expressing a lack of need for rehashing events of twenty six years ago. I have read discussions regarding this same issue in the letters blog and now in this forum. Folks have made it clear they fail to see the relevence of reopening something that seems to be of importance to a very few people.

Also from a non-Greensboro citizen point of view, I fail to see any lasting tarnishment to the city's image. I have yet to hear anyone outside of Greensboro make a comment about what happened in 1979, much less a derogatory comment about Greensboro. So why all this concern about image?

Perhaps if the TRC could present a case that would make it beneficial for all involved rather than a select few there would not be such resistance. Just my opinion.

A few responses to Allen Johnson's comments on my comments:

AJ: The points are good ones (excepting the reference to Nelson Johnson being in charge of the Commission; he isn't. They were independently chosen and say they are not answerable to him or anyone else involved in the Truth and Reconciliation Project). . . .Nor am I willing to predict what the commissioners will find in their inquiry.

Me: True enough, technically speaking. Call me skeptical, though. Case in point: the article last week in which the TRC was trolling for traumatic memories at Morningside and coming up mostly empty. About the best they could do was the guy who opined, "It's a crazy world out there." A leader of the TRC--Lauren somebody??--explained this by saying that the residents were still so traumatized that they feared to speak. If that's not bringing a conclusion to the evidence, then I don't know what is. If the TRC report surprises me by asking the tough questions or through some semblance of objectivity, then I'll be pleasantly surprised, but very surprised.

AJ: But that doesn't mean it shouldn't bother me when communists are shot down in cold blood ... for being communists. This is America. We don't do that here. At least we shouldn't.

Me: This strikes me as something of a red herring, since no one is defending the Klan's actions, least of all me. I am denying their allegorical resonance, since I predict the final report will emphasize white people shooting black people, not Klansmen shooting communists.

AJ: One final note: One way we deal with personal traumas is by repressing them -- by not acknowledging that they ever happened.
Communities do that, too. Perhaps if we get this community trauma out in the open with honest dialogue and constructive disagreement, we can finally move on.

Me: I'm not persuaded that moving on or constructive disagreement have anything to do with this project, which seems to me an explicit effort to fix and memorialize a certain interpretation of events ("and THEN we'll move on"), which can then be recalled whenever it's rhetorically advantageous. And not in a spirit of reconciliation, but in a spirit of "this is 1979 all over again: you're the bad guys and we're the good guys." On the broader point, I would differentiate between trauma that requires working through, and trauma that is best repressed. In our therapeutic culture, repression and deferral are categorically delegitimized, but there's a case to be made for them as valid and necessary coping strategies for both individuals and communities. It's a delicate calculus determining when to repress and when to work through--temperamentally, I tend to the former--and as Chafe shows, there are, in certain circumstances, huge costs to "civilities" maintained through repression, but I can't see that this incident mobilizes any underlying social pathologies that necessitate its working through.

My question: what are, concretely and specifically, the potential benefits of this project? To obtain further information? (Aren't the facts already well established?) To foster dialogue and reconciliation? (Doesn't look promising so far.) What is or might be the significance of this incident such that an effort of this kind is warranted? What, specifically, might be "brought out into the open" that could be put to good use? I don't have a clear sense of how proponents of the project would answer these questions, if it is anything other than what I currently believe it to be: an effort to construct a racial allegory of evil/white/Klansmen and virtuous/black/Communists.

Allen, thanks for your comments.

Anonymous, again I sit in awe of your comprehension of the situation and your ability to express it in words.

I don't think any investigation conducted today could even approach the thoroughness and depth of that done when the event happened. One thing I learned as a police officer is that time clouds memories, and that people have a tendency to change their recollection of events that occurred years ago based on what they read and heard about it since that time.

In a nutshell, two groups of white people met in a randomly chosen black neighborhood in Greensboro and fought it out. The CWP was badly outgunned, even though they picked the fight. Except for Nelson Johnson, neither group was based in or represented Greensboro in any way.

I view the clash of November 1979 much the same as a plane falling out of the sky; the city in which it crashes is forever linked to the tragedy.

The Truth and Reconcilition idea is a solution in search of a problem.

Shotguns $150, shells $40, other defence gear $200-300. Watching comminists shot, preciuos...
Where can one get hold of that video?
Responsible American should teach future generations what to do in case of Marxist infestation.
Regards.

P.S. Blood of victims of communism cries out for it..

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