News-Record.com

"She took devilish pleasure in this ritual, it seemed, and she eagerly reported their reactions, which ranged from fear to puzzlement to outrage."
Ok Allen, you have once again puzzled me. Why would she take time out of her life in order to get "devilish pleasure" in such a ritual? Did her "devilish pleasure" in the house of God bring her joy? Did she do anything with her findings that would perhaps bring harmony to the community, or did she just do it for the mere "devilsh pleasure" of doing it?
The crap that goes on in churches these days, is the reason I do not attend. However, if I did attend, and I saw this woman, I would of engaged her in a conversation that she would always remember. She would of left feeling that not all WHITE people are bad, and maybe, just maybe those "devilsh pleasures" of hers would of stopped, or at least her time would of been spent in better ways in the future.

Lilly, I don't endorse her methods or her motivations. But, as I write, she had a point. How can we excuse segregated places of worship? They seem to contradict the teachings we are supposed to follow and spread in our churches.

Allen, honey, to your question of excusing segregated places of worship I can only say that the church doors swing both ways. Why if whites do it, its racist, but if blacks do it, its not? People can worship where they want, and evidently people have CHOSEN to worship wherever they worship. Mothing racially motivated about it. This is a free country, it is the year 2005. Lets move on.

Allen,
How can we excuse segregated journalism workshops held by the News & Record with the help of Guilford County Schools? That seems to contradict everything this country is supposed to be about. What would be your reaction and the reaction of the newspaper if devilish white students showed up for this no-whites-allowed workshop this summer?

My personal experience has been that there
ARE enough differences in some worship styles to separate folks, though not necessarily by color. I am white and belong to a main-line Protestant church that has black members who immigrated here from Africa. They found the worship style of the churches in Greensboro of our denomination with mostly black members was very different from what they were used to in their native country, whereas our congregation offered a more similar service. Conversely, when a local black family attended our church and practiced the worship style where they vocally responded to the minister's sermon ("Amen," "Thank you, Jesus," etc.) many in the congregation felt it was disruptive. One Sunday a black visiting minister of our denomination preached and asked for vocal "feedback" ("Can I hear 'Amen?'") but was disappointed in the lack of response. So, yes, although much of the content of our services are similar, there are enough differnces in some worship styles to keep certain folks separate, no matter what the skin color.

Carolyn pretty much said why folks worship in seperate churches.
Dear lady ,who lived in my neighborhood when I was a youngster, named Rosetta Jackson, told me one time why she didn't go to church with the white folk. She said in a very loving and truthful way that she found little difference in white folks Sunday morning service than white folks funerals, except that at funerals more folks cried and showed emotion.

As I grew older and attended other churchs and especially those where white folks were in a minority, or at least closely balanced I began to understand just what she was saying.

Maybe Allen that's why churches are still segregated.

Truth about it from what I have seen in recent years Allen, most white churches are just "dead in the spirit". Me, I decided that praising was better than mouring so I found a church that is not ethnically challenged and is filled with the spirit. Maybe you ought to find one that is spirit filled and then fretting about churches being segregated or not wouldn't amount to a hill of beans.

One thing for sure, folks who don't want to let go and praise sure not gonna be happy in Heaven and there ALL God's folks will be singing and worshiping together.

Where to begin?
Again, my view is that so few of us have experienced them firsthand, we're dealing with stereotypes, based on what we perceive services among other congregations are like.
(There is much more out there than you're seeing on Cable Channel 8 or in those somersaulting black choir members in "The Blues Brothers.")
But I know for a fact that there are black people who prefer less Amen-ing and more teaching and more reflection from the pulpit. And some white churchgoers who prefer more spirited worship.
They just rarely connect.
Yet, in other aspects of culture we sure seem to have a lot fewer hang-ups and a greater appreciation for these styles.
White kids remain the biggest consumers of rap music.
Go to any blues or jazz festival and you're likely to see more whites in the audience than blacks.
And more and more local dance clubs cater to patrons of all races.
Why then, do we draw the cultural line in church?

Because Allen, Religion is a very personal thing. I disagree that we are "draw the cultural line in church". People just worship where they want to. Nobody drew any lines that I know of, (at least not intentionally), and if they did, they did it because religion is so personal for each person.

A spirit filled church is not always one where as you say Allen is filled with Amening and back flipping antics.
A spirit filled church is one where when one enters they feel the presence of the Holy Spirit and the atmosphere is charged and changed by that presence. The teaching, preaching takes on new meaning, not just words. When one leaves the building they leave not just saying , WOW wasn't that good, man preacher sure preached good today,
people leave changed and that change is visable to those with whom they come into contact with the rest of the week.

When churches become like the one I described you won't have to fret and you will find other subjects to write about instead of "how divided " we all are.

I intended to add before I had help by a grand daughter in posting.
That when churches are intergrated into the Holy Spirit then they wont be segragated.
Thankfully I happen to have found such a church. If you haven't Allen , keep looking there is one near you.

Jerry, sorry it took so long for me to respond. The journalism workshop and mixed churches to me ultimately work toward the same end: making both institutions more open and inclusive.

I AM AN AMERICAN OF AFRICAN DESCENT. GREAT GREAT GRANDFATHER FROM THE MOTHERLAND. I HAD THE PLEASURE TO ATTEND A METHODIST CHURCH EVERY SUNDAY IN AN AFFLUENT NEIGHBORHOOD IN SURBURBS OF NORTHERN ATLANTA. MIND YOU, MY GRANDFATHER IS A MINSTER AND I GREW UP "IN CHURCH". I WORKED AT A GROUP HOME FOR SOME OFTHE RICHEST PEOPLE IN THE CITY WHO HAD MENTALY HANDICAPPED ADULT CHILDREN AND THIS WAS THERE PLACEOF WORSHIP SO WE AS STAFF HAD TO TAKE THEM THERE EVERY SUNDAY .I ENJOYED GOING AS I DID FOR A YEAR STRAIGHT. BUT I HONESLTY CAN SAY THAT I LEFT THERE FEELING AS IF I JUST WENT TO CHURCH. WERE AS GROWING UP AND ATTENDNG CHURCH NOW I ACTUALLY LEAVE CHURCH WITH A FEELING. OF COURSE I HAVE BEEN TO BLACK CHURCHES WHERE I HAVENT FELT ANYTHING. I HAVE A THIRST FOR KNOWLEDGE AND SO AM QUENCHED WHEN THE MINISTER ENGAGE ME! HOWEVER SINCE EACH PERSON IS DIFFERENT EVERYONE WONT BE ENGAGED BY THE SPEAKER IF HE HAS NO PASSION ON THE SUBJECT MATTER HE IS SPEAKING ON. ITS A WHITE GENTLEMAN ON TELEVISON THAT I ALWAYS ENJOY WHEN I GET TO SEE HIM AND HE MAKES ME SIT DOWN EVERYTIME I GO PAST THE CHANNEL HE IS OWN. I CANT THINK OF HIS NAME BUT HE IS DARK HAIRED COUNTRY TALKING I ALWAYS GET FED BY HIM..IN ESSENCE I DIDNT LET MY FIRST WHITE CHURCH EXPERIENCE CLOSE MY MIND AND EVERYONE SHOULD REALIZE EACH SITUATION IS DIFFERENT BASED ON HOW YOU MAKE IT DIFFERENT . TO GOD BE THE GLORY

Amen, RODO, you said it well. Thank you.

Allen,
It would be interesting to hear you explain how shuttting out people because of skin color can make anything more inclusive. You seem to think that treating people differently because of race is acceptable, despite laws against it, because it is for a greater good. That's precisely the argument that proponents of the Jim Crow South used to justify keeping people separate. You appear not to recognize that decrying racisim, as you do constantly, while practicing it, as you and the newspaper do regularly, deprives you of any moral authority.

Actually, Jerry, I don't see it as shutting people out but inviting them in. Even you saw the fruits of the Minority Journalism Workshop when you were here. Several of its alums became your colleagues at the News & Record. Remember?

Bottomline is when there are more people of color productively working, contributing and staying in newsrooms, then there won't be a need for minority journalism workshops. Check out ASNE's surveys on the racial makeup of most newsrooms if you need some background stats. And, since some of the complaints for not hiring people of color include a lack of training and experience, I think it's smart of the N&R to sow seeds in its own backyard to try and alleviate that problem. And yes, there should be a better representation of people of color in news organizations. Why? Because MY news judgment is likely going to differ from yours, just by sheer difference in background and experiences. In fact, my experience as a journalist of color has shown me that sometimes non-minority people misstep when choosing headlines, photos, terminology etc. Not intentionally, I don't think, but if you don't know, better to find out from me before it hits the curb than after the fact when the NAACP and Urban League and whatever other groups are picketing your publication.

As for the church thing...I have been to one service in a non-minority church and it was a Catholic church and I'm a Baptist, so the whole experience was different to me for reasons other than the racial make up of the congregation. Through the years I have seen white people at services in the various churches I attended in the various cities and states I've lived in and thought nothing of it. I think people are drawn to churches where they feel comfortable and that may lead them to seek out congregations that look like them and/or a pastor and preaching/teaching method similar to that they have known.

kenneth copeland ,, thats his name see above

In N&R think, exclusion is the road to inclusion. Can anything be more Orwellian? Somehow I doubt, though, that Guilford County high school students who might be interested in attending a journalism workshop but are denied the opportunity because their skin in not the desirable color would feel included. Welcome to the new N&R: double-speak and double standards.

Jerry, bottomline is white people have, for the most part, always been afforded opportunities and access. Not so for people of color. Keep up with your program N&R and, Jerry, if it's that important to you, start your own journalism workshop.

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