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Thanks Allen. Most people won't sit through hours of it on TV. It's important everyone in Greensboro knows what went on Tuesday night.

I think our fortunes would improve overnight if the behavior of some of our elected officials could be reined in, or they could be made truly subject to the people they serve. Several of them act with arrogance and proud ignorance that embarrasses and saddens me nearly every week. Get our "leaders" out of the way, and I think the people would not be so divided.

I plan to re-publicize their comments, along with video clips from the meeting, during their campaigns for re-election. I'm glad they all went on the permanent record, and grateful that you are not shying away from explicit coverage of it. Nice work.

It looks like the CWP has finally gotten its way. The so-called Truth and Reconciliation cabal has accomplished what the CWP tried to do 25yrs ago. Much like their Russian counterparts in 1917 the CWP began its campaign to free the "oppressed" with their own version of the enemy (in Greensboro the Klan/Nazis replaced the Bourgeoise)Unfortunately they were not so much murdered by the Klan as destroyed by their narrow versions of community. Now (horrors) the city council is divided on racial lines, thus convincing racists of both colors that there is some monolithic white culture which keeps em down. I am glad that our city council will not endorse this sham reconciliation.

Toby on the CWP: "they were not so much murdered by the Klan as destroyed by their narrow versions of community."

Um, no.

They were murdered by the Klan.

Most of your bluster just sounds silly, but eliding the actual killings crosses a line.

Call it want you wish-of course they were killed by the Klan-but their own language of "Death to the Klan" brought that evil upon themselves. In retrospect the Nazis/klan are of that working class which the CWP professed so much to care for. Five talented people wasted their lives with their own silly bluster...

You write, "Finally, the council, on the whole, still seems too concerned with image over substance." Yet, the first full one-half of your editorial is on the topic of, "Is Florence Gatten a Meanie?"

Yes, Florence Gatten is a Meanie. Got it, and agreed. What about her innocent point? I think I agree with it, but I'm getting absolutely no help from the N&R with my struggle to think it through. The paragraph below represents an effort to make that point (not necessarily my view, just a statement untethered from Florence the Meanie Gatten):

The GTRC (all of it for Pete's sake -- committee, project, process -- enough with the hair-splitting!) is biased. The bias is not the simple one in the air -- it is this: *a bias towards radical social activism*. The evidence began with the involvement of Nelson Johnson, and continues to this day with the jaw-dropping depth and breadth of Diane Bellamy-Small's pro-resolution speech. Along the way, there have been acts of commission and omission that support this conclusion. Taken as a whole, the GTRC has been unable, or unwilling -- from the selection of its own makeup to through subsequent rhetoric, to alter this fundamental truth.

I lean towards accepting the above as a basic premise. I have great respect for social activists, including Ms. Small and each and every member of the GTRC. I tend to vote for their causes. We owe them our attention and respect. I truly mean that. I also think this: if I were on the City Council, I would avoid any formal relationship with their activities in a case where the City was an actor in its official capacity.

Some reasons:

* It sets a dangerous precedent. There will always be "painful issues" to reopen pressed by social activists who advance such causes for a variety of reasons. Is this now the final stage of every process: Issue --> Concurrent Activism --> Polarization --> Action -> Revisionist Activism --> Truth & Reconciliation. Oh, Lord.

* Let everyone play their part. Let the GTRC be the best they can be in this process. Let the City pick up my trash and help me get down Battleground Ave. more quickly. Let there be spaces in our togetherness, okay?

* Attention is not an unlimited resource. There are thousands of issues and causes. It *is* possible to conclude that this one is backwards-looking and negative to the community and therefore not one to be prioritized by the City.

Florence the Meanie Gatten was trying say all of this, I think. She was attempting to communicate that it is easy to become infatuated with fighting the good fight on high profile causes. I thank God that groups like the GTRC, and even rabblerousin' Nelson Johnson, continue to tilt at windmills. I also think they are deservedly suspect when dressed in disguise but ready for battle -- and that the City of Greensboro is best not to suit up and join them.

I still have no earthly idea where the paper's Opinion Editor is on this issue, other than straddling the fence and looking down with a frown on Florence the Meanie Gatten.

Allen Johnson: on the evening of the cotton-picking vote, HOW WOULD YOU HAVE VOTED AND WHY. I am willing to stipulate you wouldn't have been mean.

You got it Toby. Anyone with any sense at all would of stayed at home or indoors that day. A death to whomever rally did not seem like a good place to be at that time. So maybe if the city learns anything from this, it would be IN THE FUTURE STAY HOME IF A DEATH TO WHOMEVER/WHATEVER RALLY COMES TO TOWN. If they come to your neighborhood, call 911, keep calling until the SWAT team arrives. Do NOT go out into the street and engage these people. Its not rocket science.

How can we ever expect truth and reconciliation without Justice? The Truth and Reconcilliation Commission lacks support because too many people, black and white, simply don't care or have given up hope that justice will ever be done. Anyone who watched the massacre on Nov 3rd. 1979 knows the truth, now we need to focus on justice. Only then will the majority feel reconcilled. If the Nov 3rd. murderers can walk the street as free men for over 25 years then what's to stop them, or others like them, from murdering again?

When Norman Johnson, Carolyn Allen, and the rest of their lot begin the call to put the murders behind bars I'll stand with them, but the commission they're raised is nothing more than a dog and pony show designed to put CWP members in a positive light.

By the way, the GTCRC claims they want community imput, and they claim they've interviewed over 50 people but why after monyhs and months do they not enable the forms on their website and how many of those 50 were first hand witnesses? After all, hearsay is not evidence.

Despite what supporters of the commission would want us to think, this isn't about racism, but is in-fact about law and order. And before your readers shout, "KKK-Nazis, it is about racism!" (as people automaticly and wrongly think any crime by KKK members is a racist act) would it be about racism if a group of KKK members robbed a bank or a liquor store? We all know the 1979 attack was motivated by revenge, not racism.

Truth and Reconciliation is a process that must come before Justice. If people like Florence Gatten and the mayor aren't willing to listen with discernment and not judgement, to listen to Nelson Johnson and the other participants in the march to allow those on the other side to tell their story and to listen without judgement but to really listen then they will never understand.

If anyone has been rude to Councilwoman Gatten it is, judging from her statement, that she see only the category, communist, social activist and not the person behind it. Nelson Johnson spoke from the heart and was dismissed as nothing more than one more grieving victim of a senseless tragedy. Well, this is our senseless tragedy, and we can do something about "human nature" in one case. I can't do anything about the challenger, or the Vietnam soldiers who were destroyed by a war of greed but I can do something in my town, today. Well, you turned down an opportunity to be great to be magnanimous. Shame on you!

"Truth and Reconciliation is a process that must come before Justice."

I'm afraid it just won't work that way. None of the guilty will risk sending themselves to prison and without them to testify the T&R Commission hasn't a chance at learning the truth. For over 200 years our legal system has been providing justice (though often flawed) with reconciliation coming only after the guilty are punished.

Why are so many scared of sending the guilty to prison? Have you simply given up?

I am beginning to think more and more that a City Council endorsement was unnecessary in the first place.

The TRC is already receiving news coverage. Its work, as far as I know, would not involve any current City Council members anyway.

People working with the TRC must realize that for its work to be taken seriously, it must always take the high road.

And it must question all angles of involvement in that tragic incident.

There must also be the understanding that many people will not care about this issue.

Too many people do not even care about local current events, let alone local historical events.

But there is the potential for more people to become more educated about the subject, and that generally is probably not a bad thing.

Perhaps some of the participants will even evolve in their thinking about their involvement.

("Death to the Klan" was, I hope, intended as metaphorical. But it was beyond any doubt confrontational, with a strong suggestion of violence. Imagine if that had been the approach during the Civil Rights Movement: "Death to Whitey" instead of "I Have A Dream." There are still white people who have no idea how lucky America is that Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. and others like him chose to lead in the direction they did. King chose to confront whites nonviolently when he arguably had strong justification to support a violent response to white America's violence against blacks in this country. King chose a more loving, more forgiving, more accomodating model, but he still confronted white America very directly. The CWP did not learn lessons from King that might have steered it in a completely different direction from "Death to the Klan." The CWP didn't maintain the high road, and that placed it too close to equal ground with the KKK. Had King and others resorted to greater violence, whites could have pointed to that as evidence that blacks were a part of the problem. When they confronted whites nonviolently, blacks appeared as superior beings compared to the images of barbaric acts against them by whites. Whites looked like the very animals some of them suggested blacks were. With the two groups involved in the events that occurred on Novemeber 3, 1979, there was not as clear a distinction between them, and that was part of the problem.)

I did see the remarks Florence Gatten directed toward the N.C. A & T State University student.

When I had read elsewhere of how she had addressed him, I wondered if maybe his tone had earned her return tone.

Having seen the clip, I don't think so.

Gatten's tone came from within her, not in response to the student's tone.

He did seem, as others have pointed out, nervous, but he also seemed very sincere.

A lot of adults would never put themselves in the position of addressing a government body, as he chose to do, and assuming that all citizens have the right to express themselves, Gatten should have displayed greater respect toward him than she appeared to show.

She came across as very condescending, and it just seemed completely unnecessary.

Allen Johnson appropriately compared the way Gatten addressed the young man to the typical way in which County Commissioners address one another and others within our community.

Gatten does not have a Blog to my knowledge, but it would be appropriate for her to use someone else's Blog or to find another way to apologize to the young man.

Her points could have been made respectfully, but they certainly did not come across that way.

If Gatten did not mean her comments in the way they came across, she needs to get some help working on how she projects when communicating with people.

If she meant to come across the way she did, she has a much deeper problem, a superior attitude that would make her much more suited to pursue becoming a Commissioner.

I do not know Gatten well enough to assume anything, but comments elsewhere suggest that she needs to study herself more carefully.

Beyond the TRC issue, the issue of how elected officials address each and every individual citizen is extremely important, even when the elected officials are not fans of the citizens, their views, or the ways in which they express themselves.

Threads like this and others around the 'sphere would not be happening unless the GTRC had been initiated IMHO.

I find it all to be very raw, sincere and refreshing. Greensboro is experiencing open and honest CONVERSATION - this is at least one positive development of the early stages of this re-examination.

Being only a 20-odd year resident, I am learning A LOT about Greensboro's history in the process - from both sides of the issue.

To Mr. Sun:
Thanks for the pricking and prodding. As I said in my column, I would have voted not to endorse the T&R process and to await the commission's final report.
Opposing the commission's work and dismissing it as biased before it is even done is premature and prejudicial.
To David Hoggard:
I agree. How can (constructive) dialogue ever hurt us?

To Hardy Floyd:
I agree; the City Council's tone toward citizens is extremely important.
That's one thing I respect about Keith Holliday the most. He takes pains to make citizens feel respected and heard, even when he obviously disagrees with them.
So do most of the other council members.

Chewie:
Welcome back. And thanks for your comments. A community that is willing to learn from the past, in my opinion, is forward thinking.
Can we talk? Sure. Will we talk? That remains to be seen.

Im not familiar with the situation of the city council but it seems to me as if she still has some kind of racism in her to make racist statement. Saying that she is not a vanilla woman that was really uncalled for but we will see what the people will do and what they decide to do after her statements.

I haven't heard alot about Truth and Reconciliation. According to your blog, I feel that Gatten is only looking at it from her side. Her being in that kind of authority, she can not do that. She has to be flexilbe and look at the story from all different sides. It just dosen't go for blacks, it goes for any other race that she might have to come in contact with. Its a shame that its 2005 and we are still being racially divided. 2005 every color and person should be able to work as a whole and be treated equally. Its sad that Gatten tries to avoid the situation when (from what it sound like) she knows the truth.

Billy,

Your suggestion that the Department of Justice, FBI and/or the Greensboro Police Department reopen this case as other recent cases in Georgia and elsewhere does not appear to be a realistic possibility.
ATF, FBI and Greensboro police informants were actively involved with the outcome of Nov. 3rd. These groups have no desire to reopen this case. The civil trial, in 1985, already found Greensboro Police Commander Paul Spoon, Detective Jerry Cooper, informant Eddie Dawson liable for the wrongful death of Mike Nathan.

Elizabeth Wheaton in her excellent book "Code Name GREENKIL The 1979 Greensboro Killings", University of Georgia Press, 1987 points out "GREENKIL is the haunting codename given one of the Federal Bureau of Investigation's most extensive criminal civil rights investigations in the agency's history: The GREENsboro KILlings."

Somewhere hundred of boxes of FBI files exist about Nov. 3rd. It is hard to imagine that possibly only the JFK and several other FBI investigations have been more intensive that Nov. 3rd.

I am not one who adheres to any conspiracy theory about Nov. 3rd but the two informants Eddie Dawson and Bernard Butkovich create unusual problems for all the law enforcement groups involved. In this ultra conservative climate there is no way that the Department of Justice would engage in a reopening of this case. It is interesting that many on the Greensboro Human Relations Commission, several on the Greensboro City Council and former Congressman Richardson Preyer all asked the Department of Justice, in 1979, to review the performance of the law enforcement agencies involved on Nov. 3rd -- their failure to provide proper security remains a real mystery. Also, many of us think that the current Truth & Reconciliation process is a far better method in "understanding" Nov. 3rd than a forth trial.

Saying that she is not a vanilla woman that was really uncalled for but we will see what the people will do and what they decide to do after her statements.

Actually "vanilla" has nothing to do with race whatsoever. It is simply a way of saying that I am not a plain, ordinary, usual, run of the mill woman. In her case it would be better put that she is not one who minces words or perhaps one who calls it as she sees it.

If you are a younger person this would not be a common phrase for you so your jumping to the conclusion that it was a racist statement will be forgiven due to lack of knowledge.

Vanilla? LOL oh me.. when I heard that term it was in a S&M chatroom that I went into accidently! LOL. (honest, it was an accident)
Vanilla to THEM means someone who does not practice S&M. I dunno what this lady meant. LMAO.

Lilly, do you have some deep hidden tendencies we don't know about? Accidentally? LOL
This case was investigated to death (pun intended) by law enforcement. Every aspect, witness, potential witness, bystander, etc., was interviewed. Literally hundreds of officers worked on this. There is no way that reopening this case could accomplish what the investigation immediately after the fact failed to accomplish. In short, there's nothing left to investigate. And I'd bet a good percentage of the witnesses and participants are either dead or no longer live in this area.
Mr. Cone, the Communists were not "murdered." They engaged in a firefight with another group, and were killed as a result of their actions. It was a mutual combat situation, not a murder. The CWP brought pistols to a rifle fight, and were badly outgunned. Personally, it wouldn't have bothered me if all members on both sides perished in that fight, never to be seen or heard from again. Both sides were wrong, both sides suffered.
After 25 years, the "stigma" of this incident exists mostly in the minds of those who never got over it. It's been years since anyone I've met in other places has even mentioned it or remembered it and asked me about it.
The T&R Committee is a solution looking for a problem.

Very well said Kilgore! *applauds wildly*

Kilgore, I agree with you on this one. How can stirring up negative emotions in many solve a problem that exists in the minds of so few? It seems like personal problems best handled by a professional, IMO.

My fear is the TRC/TRP will not stop until they have created the unrest and division that existed in the pre 1960's riots. Folks are already drawing lines and acting in uncommonly negative ways. People are developing suspicions, looking for hidden agendas. There is a tension, a strain in the races that I did not notice before a handful of malcontents decided the only way the community could heal was to pick the scabs off old wounds and lick them.

Ewwwwww Yvonne, well at least you didn't say pick the scabs off old wounds and EAT them. LMAO.
I agree, and if people dont stop stirring the pot, Helter Skelter is coming for SURE. Just when you thought race relations had simmered down, here THEY go pulling out race cards, referring to MLK's legacy or whatever.
Just give it a rest.. I am personally sorry that lives were lost on that fateful day.
Here is some advice, nextime dont hold a party implying DEATH and then cry when you get killed ok?

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