News-Record.com

I am admittedly naive. So, keep that in mind as you read this comment. MY view of why the Commission was seeking the blessing of the City Council is simple. The Commission is doing important work that may (will? should?) impact this community. The City Council is an important part of this community. Why WOULDN'T the Commission seek its support? The unfortunate reality is that Council members dug in early and couldn't or wouldn't have changed their minds if they wanted to. Not that any of them did want to change their minds.

As a sidebar, I resent, RESENT the continued back-door meetings (of 2-3 members at at time) to make decisions rather than have open, authentic conversation in public.

I did not watch the proceedings, and since I had to get up early, I'm glad I didn't. I am disappointed.

Why approach the City Council? Because the City Council has free government money. I'm sure the Truth and Reconciliation Commission knows they can parlay a little spending cash from Santa Council if they yell loudly enough. That should be good for some watches or catered lunches. After all, the Greensboro grifters never close their doors; they just change the sign above it. Of course, they haven't asked for the money yet but that will come. After all, you can't have true reconciliation without a little folding cash in your pocket. What's the point of having a Truth and Reconciliation Commission without a payday? The truth is that reconciliation cannot happen until there is restitutiation.

The old adage is true. "Money you don't ask for is money you don't get". The Truth and Reconciliation Commission is going to ride that old 1979 mare all the way to the bank. The City Council would be wise to just pay up so the Truth and Reconciliation Commission can get a new sign for the door.

Come on, City Council. Pay up so they'll shut up.

I doubt that. The project is independently financed. Plus city funding would never happen given the sharp community division on the merits of the T&R process.

Allen, I be willing to publicly wager a bet with you on your blog that the TRC will basically wither away now that they haven't got any support from the city council. You better believe that one of the TRC's agendas was to get financial backing from the city.

I'm personally tired of people trying to sweep racial issues under the rug and pretend that we live in a world of racial harmony. The only way we can tackle racism in this community is to address these issue. I dont think there is nothing at all wrong with trying to find out what happened in 1979 and the council should have endorsed the process, but not doing so, it leaves the impression that racism exist on the city council.

I'm mystified by the mystery Allen describes--more precisely, that anyone would find it mysterious. As far as I can tell, going to the City Council was a win-win for the Commission or Project or whatever it is that is doing stuff now.

If the Council backs the TRC, then that authorizes their work. "See, we're speaking for all of Greensboro now. Silence, naysayers, we are the voice of the people." After all, commissions (South Africa, Peru) are paradigmatically commissioned _by_ some authorizing body, usually the government itself.

But if the Council rejects the TRC, it's just as good, since now proof is in hand "that we remain deeply divided"--hence the need for the TRC and its tireless campaign for truth and reconciliation. Now the TRC can truly inhabit the ennobling role of civil rights crusaders sticking it to The Man (starring Keith Halliday as Bull Connor, Florence Gatten as George Wallace). The Council has merely _updated_ the trauma being investigated (which, for the TLC, is a good thing, given the embarrassingly anomalous nature of the shootings). The talking points speak themselves.

And so anyone who thinks the TRC will wither away is, I'm afraid, mistaken. They have money (where is that $800,000--and is that a correct figure?--going?), free publicity from the paper (which I don't fault the paper for--it's a legitimate story), and a cadre of true believers.

Also a good sense of power politics. Since this is now a de facto white/black issue, hasn't the TLC effectively mobilized the power of minority politics? Won't the black community now trend toward viewing the TLC as their representative voice, whatever its attitudes toward the shootings? As far as I can tell, going to the City Council was a clever strategy any way you cut it, and the only equally clever response would have been to ignore the TLC entirely.

i went to war in 1971,returned to g'boro in 1975,
moved north and I guess inspite of a city trying to project itself as "world class" its the same
racial class and class BS.You can't change
the stigma and by not confronting THE PROBLEMS you only show
"THE SONG REMAINS THE SAME".KEEP IT UP AND
MAYBE FEDEX WILL VIEW THE CITY IN THE SAME LIGHT.
I LOVE THIS CITY...BUT CHANGE INCLUDES ALL
OF HUMAN KIND...NO MATTER RACE,CREED OR COLOR.
GREENSBORO ALWAYS COMES OFF LOOKING INCREDIBLY
WHITE!!!!!!!!

Pasted below are your words from the staff editorial and two blog posts immediately before the City Council vote on the GTRC.

You seem to enjoy judging and asking questions. Here is mine: how about some actual opinion from your opinion page? You raise all kinds of questions of real importance to our community, and then promptly leaves them alone. After the vote, however, you've got opinions -- Florence Gatten is contemptuous.

How about an opinion page that actually forms an opinion -- *prior* to big votes where people must actually take a stand?

What do you think about the questions you simply raise below? What are the details of the issues and where do you come down on each of them, even if information is incomplete or unknown? Beyond noting it exists, how do you evaluate the accuracy and persuasiveness of each side's rhetoric. How would you vote on the various offered, and rumored proposals?

On one of the biggest votes this year in our community, your opinion page seemed to me like a Larry King musing column -- ticking off "issues" like you were taking roll call.

Is wondering out loud what this page has to offer? I can do that myself.

/-----/

The N&R Opinion Page on GTRC:

In fact, it's still a mystery why the Truth and Reconciliation supporters sought the council's imprimatur in the first place. Were they desperate? Were they naive? Were they seeking broader exposure?

Meanwhile, perhaps the most disconcerting aspect of the meeting was the clear division along racial lines. Is it a coincidence or indicative of something more troubling? But why over this issue, which has some racial undercurrents but is not in and of itself based on race?

There will be rhetoric about history and bad PR and hurting economic development and looking ahead, not back. There also will be rhetoric about healing and coming together. And the community will remain sharply split over an issue that many claim not to care about.

David Hoggard wonders why black and white council members see the issue so differently. Roch Smith proposes his own resolution.

What did he say??? English...Do you speak it???

Fair enough, Mr. Sun.
Part of this blog's mission is to raise questions and spark discussion before we write editorials and columns.
I'd like to provide all the answers PDQ, but, frankly I don't have them all. At least not yet.
But you're right that more issues beg answers.
I did attend Tuesday's meeting and I have spoken with every council member except two at this writing. I'll be doing some more reporting and
will revisit this issue in the Sunday paper.
As for weighing in on this vote before it's taken, we did, with an editorial in the March 17 paper.

I look forward to your thoughts, but let's be real about one thing: much had changed in the month since the March 17 editorial, and you did not weigh in on the April 19 vote.

I am so unaware why the City Council did not support Councilwoman Burroughs-White's resolution. The resoulution simply condemns violence and remembers the atrocities of the past. I really want to know why the vote was a 6-3 vote? I think that the Project had every right to go to the City Council for the simple reason that the City Counci represents the people of Greensboro. They are not endorsing the group per se, they would be condemning violence. I am so disappointed that the vote (6-3) occured. I am so unhappy that the council seems to want to cover over the fact that they voted strictly along racial lines. This is an unfortunate and atricious occurence. As a member of this community I am so unhappy that they voted as a group to OPPOSE the Truth and Reconciliation Project. How can they be fine with opposing the motion but not with endorsing the motion? It show us where the six stand. I tell you that I will not forget this when re-election is up. Mayor Pro-Tem Johnson, we need your leadership and not the seeming fickle leadership of Mayor Holliday. This is outrageous!

Ray McKinnon
Greensboro, NC

One other note, Mr. Sun: The reference to David Hoggard contained a link so you could read his comments firsthand.

Folks are doing what the TRC wanted; dividing. If they could not make a case for their agenda, they would cease to project a need for their commission. As long as they can make themselves appear useful, they are fulfilling a need, thus keeping themselves "alive".

We can discuss the topic of race into oblivion without accomplishing a beneficial thing. It's just like talking about the bible. Unless people actually live what they preach, things don't change. Talking about racism doesn't make one color-blind but living a good decent life makes acceptance of differences a daily norm. Talk is cheap; actions make the difference.

People view TRC's motives as self-serving, racial and trouble making. That is the reason there is such resistence.

I don't claim to know what their true motives are but I do know no amount of forced dialogue between blacks and whites can produce a positive outcome.

What is necessary for reconciliation is simple leadership from our city leaders. We have a constituency that feels anger, frustration and sadness about deaths that occurred in our lifetimes. Rather than saying that nothing can be done to ever erase those negative feelings (Mr. Holliday), how about trying to get out in front of the issue. Everyday we experience losses and pain, and we have multiple resources for dealing with them.
Academics are not noted for compassionate healing: they deal with facts. We do have hundreds of religious leaders, therapists, and interested citizens who could be recruited to exorcise some of our demons and attend to the pain of our fellow citizens. There are many models, the T&R being just one. But simply doing nothing is giving Greensboro a very ugly reputation. The sin is not making a mistake; it is not recognizing the mistake and changing so that it does not happen again.

Some of Florence Gatton's questions can be easily found at http://www.gtcrp.org/faqs.asp

As stated on the GTCRP's website the main fund provider has been the Andrus Family Fund - www.affund.org .
They provide grants for Conflict Resolution. I do not know all the funding details but I know that many of us on the Local Task Force and others in the community have also provided
significant contributions to the T&R process. No requests have ever been made for money from tax payers and the city. So the Council is still free to spend "city money" on the projects Ms Gatton suggested. At the end of the process we will know "who profited" from this process. The hope of many of us is that our Community will be a better place for having tackled the complex issues around Nov. 3rd. It does appear from our educational structure and university system that "history" and its understanding has some merit. The rawness of the community discussion around Nov. 3rd clearly shows that we may all benefit from letting the Commission do its work. The independence and legitimacy of the Commission's finished work will of course be judged by all of Greensboro. I do image that none of the parties directly involved on Nov. 3rd will like the Commission's findings.

A central advisor for the GTCRP and the Greensboro Truth & Reconciliation Commission has been the International Center for Transitional Justice - www.ictj.org .
It should be noted that survivors are often the primary initiators of a T&R process and the ICTJ is the primary international advisor to T&R work all over the world.

The Greensboro Truth & Reconciliation Commission is independent and is responsible for raising its own money. I assume it has access to the Andrus Family Funds as well as all funding resources know to the GTCRP. The Executive Director of the Commission Jill Williams would be good to contact about funding specifics for the Commission.

I will add that my primary interest is to help the T&R Commission any way possible. I have no preset idea of what will be their findings but I know that to get the full story of Nov. 3rd the Commission needs to hear many different voices. Individuals like Jim Melvin and Mike Schlosser can help by bring insight and balance to the process. I hope they have the courage to appear before the Commission and I hope they are aware of the distinction between the GTCRP (that at times is very political and more narrowly focused on the concerns of the survivors) and the independent Commission that is not interested in supporting any one side of the horror of Nov. 3rd.

Some of us as individuals apart from the GTCRP put together the Faith & Community event on April 10th at the First Baptist Church. This was done to bring more unity around the work of healing and reconciliation in Greensboro. The actions that took place at the Council meeting show how easily it is for us to continue to make bad decisions about how we as a community deal with Nov. 3rd 1979 as well as how we deal with our current divisions.

I am a member of the GTCRP Local Task Force and I am just giving the above information from my best recollection. I am not speaking officially for the GTCRP.

Allen -- Yes, I saw the link to David Hoggard's article in which he states how he would vote and why. I was looking for the link to your version of that. Again, it's easy not to sound contemptuous when all you do is raise questions and clear your throat. Why don't you put down your pipe and see what happens then?

I guess I'll have to take up smoking a pipe first.
As I said, I'll weigh in again on Sunday. You can take me to task again after that. Or maybe we'll even agree on a point or two.

"Skin that smokewagon Allen and see what happens!"

Several writers made comment about the money situation and if perhaps this seeking Council's support is not a ploy to obtain funds. Allen seems to deny that this could possibly be the reason. Back in March I posted the funding information and where it was from. I made the statement that this appears to be the last year for the funding. You may draw you own conclusions. Here is my previous post:

Jim, here is what the Andrus Family Fund listed for the TRC. There were two grants ,an initial for $20,000 and the last one for $330,000 this looks like the last year for that grant so that may be why all the rush to get this thing crammed down the towns throat. Sandrus Foundation and the Andrus Fund are involved in some pretty far left projects. But then it's their money they can waste it anyway they see fit.

Beloved Community Center of

Greensboro/Greensboro Justice Fund

417 Arlington Street

Greensboro, NC 27406

www.gjf.org

Purpose of Grant

To support the planning phase of a reconciliation

process that would attempt to address the conflict

in Greensboro surrounding the 1979 killing of five

labor and civil rights demonstrators by Ku Klux

Klansmen and American Nazi Party members.

Grant Amount: $20,000 1 year

Beloved Community Center of

Greensboro/Greensboro Justice Fund

417 Arlington Street

Greensboro, NC 27406

www.gjf.org

Purpose of Grant

To support the establishment of a Truth and

Reconciliation Commission (TRC) that will

attempt to address the conflict in Greensboro

surrounding the 1979 killing of five labor and

civil rights demonstrators by Ku Klux Klansmen

and American Nazi Party members, and to work

with community residents and stakeholders to

implement the TRC’s recommendations.

Grant Amount: $330,000

3 years: $125,000; $125,000; $85,000

Posted by: mrproduce at April 3, 2005 06:17 PM

The date of the post shows April 3 however it was also posted elswhere in March. I just happened to pull the April posting.

There were many disappointing moments in the City Council meeting, capped by a vote to "oppose" rather than "not support" the Truth and Reconciliation Process.

I'm also disappointed, Allen, with your questions that implicity suggest that the Truth and Reconciliation folks should NOT have approached the City Council with a request to support the process. Isn't that the very purpose of government--to represent its people? There are plenty of people, 5300 at last count, who want the City to have a role in this (not necessarily as funder).

All of our city projects of any size, this one included, and the baseball park before it, SHOULD have government involvement--I am a firm believer is the power and possibilities of our elected officials!

We do have concurrent academic processes in place as Mayor Holliday hopes for. In fact, this fall a course on the sit-ins, November 3rd, and Greesnboro today will be the subject of my class, Communication, Community, and Civil Rights--it's open to any college student in Greensboro and I hope we do have a showing from all the schools.

All that said, we in Greensboro have great potential--still--to talk, to change, and to advance policies reflective of critical consideration. That, at least, is where I put my faith and hope.

Spoma,I still believe a better approach would have been to produce the report first. We knew from day one that the City Council would not endorse this effort. On the other hand, the dialogue the issue forced -- and that the council would have preferred to avoid -- was revealing.

To Mr. Produce, here is an excerpt from a Thursday press release from the Truth and Reconciliaiton on funding:

"The Commission assures the community, in response to concerns raised by Councilwoman Florence Gatten, that answers about our finances are readily available from members of the Commission, its staff and the Community Foundation of Greater Greensboro, which manages our funds. Also, our research team is completely impartial and interested in hearing from as many people as possible and from all points of view.

"The Commission is funded by a combination of private donations and foundation grants, including $15,000 from private local and national donors who believe in this work.

"While we have applications currently under consideration by several local and national foundations, funds have been received so far from two national foundations: the Andrus Family Fund and the JEHT Foundation.

"The Andrus Family Fund, which provided a $60,000 grant, is a sub-fund of the Surdna Foundation, founded by family patriarch John Emory Andrus in 1917. Community reconciliation is one of its focus areas. For more information, visit www.affund.org.

"The JEHT Foundation, which made a $75,000 grant, was established in April 2000. Its name stands for the core values that underlie its mission: Justice, Equality, Human dignity and Tolerance. For more information, visit www.jehtfoundation.org."

Thank you Allen for that bit of information. I can see that the TRC has been busy raising money elsewhere also. It is rather strange wouldn't you think that the figures the TRC are showing do not line up with what the Sandrus and Andrus figures show? My figures came directly from the Andrus and Sandrus website where a list all of the funding for all projects in the past several years is available.I actually just pasted them and then posted them on the N&R sites. I am sure that if you look you can tell that I did not take the time to re-type the list. The TRC is showing only $60 thousand while the figures from the Andrus group shows a grant of $330thousand over a three year period. I find that a bit strange Allen.Perhaps the N&R should do some investigating on this.

Yes I am well aware of these organizations and the many groups which they fund. There is also a complete (almost) list of those funded on their website also.
It is also interesting to discover that some of the funding coincicides with some of the same groups that the Soros group funds often through shadow groups. I am sure that you know who the Soros group is and what they stand for and the level of "ethical" operations they have maintained over the years.

Mr.Produce, you raise good points. There are two separate organizations operating here: the Truth and Reconciliaton Project and the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. The figures in the release, I believe, are only for the commission.
I'll find out for sure.

The figures I show are for the TRC, the commission. Wonder why however that they did not show these figures to Ms. Gatten or who ever. In the post it states: The Commission is funded by a combination of private donations and foundation grants, including $15,000 from private local and national donors who believe in this work.
Here they say the Commission no where do they show or mention any thing about the Project. Could it be slight of hand?? Inquiring minds what to know.

Went to Surdna website and under recent grants there are none listed for the TRC or TRP. Grants listed for 2003-2004

It looks as if references to the Sandrus Foundation on the web have disappeared with the exception to the link of the N&R blog.

As most of you know, the Commission is an independent body that was created through a democratic process initiated by the Greensboro Truth and Community Reconciliation Project. The Commission has its own budget, office and staff. The figures to which Mr. Produce is pointing in the Andrus Family Fund website are grants that were made to the GTCR Project (at the Beloved community Center) for "establishing" the Commission (described above). The Commission received a $60K grant from the Andrus Family Fund earlier this year and apparently this grant has not yet made it onto the AFF website.

Because the names of these organizations are similar, I can understand why people are finding this confusing. (In fact, I was a little confused myself when I first applied for my job as the Executive Director of the Commission.) But please know that none of us who work for or are involved with the Commission are in the least bit confused about the necessary separation between ourselves and the GTCRP. And please work with us to help others understand the distinction between the two groups. While it is a little confusing, I have complete faith that Greensboro residents are smart enough to be able to understand the distinctions.

Thanks for your continued interest in these issues and please don't hesitate to call me at the Commission office (275-6462) if you have any other questions or concerns.

Jill Williams
Executive Director
Greensboro TRC

Thanks for clearing that up, Jill. You're right; it remains a source of confusion. And probably some frustration for the T&R commissioners.

It will be clear Allen when a complete accounting is made available. With the TRC and TRP all getting funds under the same umbrella or so it seems it seems a bit confusing as to where the $330 thousand went. None of the discussions have mentioned any amount like this only the small grants. In looking for those it seems the sources or links have disappeared or make no mention of making grants to the TRC or TRP what ever it is operating under. Why not just publish the a report and let the folks see the truth on this confusing issue. I have inquired of the Andrus Foundation of any further funds other than those posted and asked that they be posted in accordance with their own policy. I beleive they will be forthcoming with their reports and I will be interested to see what those are made to the TRC or TRP and see if the numbers line up. So far, I haven't seen that. Thanks for asking Allen. Some reply is better than no reply , sometimes I suppose.

I don't feel that there is anything wrong with addressing racial issues in our community. I believe that many people would actually like to know what really happened in 1979 at the Anti-Klan rally in Morningside Homes. The City Council should support the Truth and Reconciliaton effort.

Ms Fitzgerald here is one view point of what happened on a fall day, Nov 3,1979, from an outsider who happened to be in the area during that fateful time.

Three groups of trouble makers, agitators , hate mongers decided to have a show down . The CWP, (commies)lead by a purported reverend, the "red neck" KKK'er and the "wacky" Nazi's, all looking for trouble had been taunting each other for weeks or even several months beforehand.

This so called reverend, who decided he would be like Wyatt Earp at the OK Corral, decided throw down the chips and call a "Death to the Klan" showdown. Now anybody with any brains at all knows that when you start calling a march a "Death" to anything that there is bound to be trouble, but never the less the holy reverend along with his hired guns, the CWP(commies) called the place for the showdown.

Of all places he choose, Morningside homes, the place where peace loving, law abiding families lived, where children played and folks chatted on their porches. Of course the rev figured he might get sympathy by holding the showdown in primarily Black neighborhood. Why he didn't pick an open field where they could hold a battle royal away from innocent folks is beyond me and most other folks too. Anyhow , here they come marching and the KKK'ers were there with their "battle flags" flying off the back of their pickup trucks, just like they were going to a picnic, and they had the wacky Nazi's along for the ride.

Of course they were packing weapons because they knew the Commies and the rev would be armed because the rev had little enough sense to ask the law if he could carry a gun. Not a brilliant move on his part would you think?

Well here they are, hollering back and forth, calling each other names, making enough noise to wake the dead, which of course got the attention of a bunch of innocent folks and they had to gather to see what this bunch of agitators were up to. It wasn't long before one of the bunch of troublemakers pulled out a gun and started shooting. Bullets were flying everywhich way, people were ducking behind, under and around cars, trees and buildings and the fools kept shooting. While the fools were shooting, innocent people were getting wounded and killed. Of course some of the foolish folks involved got shot , wounded and killed as well but then who could expect anything better for them. The media was there and it sure made a great story for the evening news. The CWP(commies)and the rev got what they wanted , attention. But look at the cost.

Unfortunately there are some who claim it was worth it and now want to dig it all up and "play it again Sam" to see who was right and who was wrong. Well most folks, at least those who don't have a dog in the hunt or an agenda or a paycheck riding on it want to leave it buried where it belongs. They don't see the need to scratch a scab off an old wound to try to prove right or wrong of the whole thing. There were no folks "right" in this fight, no matter what side they were on. The innocent know how it happened and the wrong want to rectify themselves.

On that November day ,1979, there were no heroes made or born only foolishness and hatred shown.

I don't have an agenda, a paycheck, or a dog in the hunt so that's my story and I am sticking to it. Some folks won't agree but it makes little difference to me.

Exactly mrp. Don't have a party implying DEATH, and then CRY when people die.
PS *whispers* Morningside homes wasn't ever really a "nice" place.. LOL.

Lilly, I beg to differ about your assessment of Morningside Homes. Four years ago I lived there for four days and nights. I know better.

Allen, I was speaking about the mid to late 70's. 4 years ago? Wow you sure were brave. LOL. I bet you wouldnt of gone there in the mid to late 70's if someone paid you. :)

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