"Well worth hearing" : Thinking Out Loud : Blogs : News-Record.com : Greensboro, North Carolina

John Appel said:

From what I've read in this morning's article and heard on the TV last night, it's much as I expected. The communists (CWP) are trying to rewrite history using the T&R as their writing instrument. The "blame game" has started once again. The words I heard spoken by the communists yesterday are no different than the speeches they gave in 1979 to rally their allies against the authorities and the government.
This whole ugly incident was investigated as thoroughly as humanly possible when it happened, by every state and Federal police agency available. As I recall, there were some 54 volumes of investigative reports in court during the trials.
Does anyone seriously believe that memories are SHARPER now after 26 years than they were when it occurred?

Posted on July 16, 2005 10:31 AM

Allen Johnson said:

John, Saturday's session offered much, much more in the way of diverse perspectives. I was especially impressed by the testimony of former Klansman Gorrell Pierce; past, current and future Klansman Virgil Griffin (he said Saturday that he would be a member of the KKK until he dies); and "Codename: Greenkil" author Elizabeth Wheaton.
All three dramatically demonstrated the pricelessness of disagreement in this process.
There's a story on our Web site and Ed Cone offers an extensive post (with photos) on his blog.
I'm working on an editorial and more blog entries are forthcoming.

Posted on July 17, 2005 12:19 AM

mrproduce said:

Greensboro's mayor from 1993-1999, Carolyn Allen, said Pierce "should be awarded an Academy Award for his performance."

"He was very smooth," she said

By ESTES THOMPSON
Associated Press Writer
(as appeared in the Asheville Citizen-Times)

Isn't this just a wonderful way at achieving reconciliation when you have a former mayor speaking in such a "reconciling manner".

Come on Allen, the decision is already made by the T&R, The Klan and Nazi's are the guilty one's and the Commies and the "Rev" Johnson will all be made hero's when in fact the entire bunch are guilty. What a farce!

Posted on July 17, 2005 9:16 AM

John Appel said:

I had another comment after my first one, but it was "disappeared"..I guess you guys got that editing thing for the blogs up and running.
My main point is that it appears the T&R is not looking for facts, just providing a forum for (mostly) communist party members to make political speeches. Nice that Griffin and company would come up and give their "thoughts" on what happened, but it's just political rhetoric and discussion, much like what goes on everyday on the N&R blogs. No fact checking, no requirement that your speech has to be rooted in reality, but lots of fingerpointing and spouting of political positions.
And the silly notion that somehow a black police captain conspired with the KKKlan to kill people in a black neighborhood. Get real...

Posted on July 17, 2005 10:39 AM

Ed Cone said:

I don't see why Carolyn Allen's remarks are so telling, MrP -- Pierce was smooth. And she isn't a commissioner anyway. You can see my coverage of yesterday's event here and here.

Posted on July 17, 2005 6:28 PM

Ben Holder said:

The hearings were great. I agree with Mr. johnson that even objectors to the process will end up being curious as to what comes out. good job by the GTRC staff. We shall see if they can keep it up. Mr. Johnson, I am offended that I am not a link of interest on your blog. Heart breaking actually.

Posted on July 17, 2005 8:15 PM

Allen Johnson said:

Mr. Appel:
No editing of any comments has occurred on this thread. I am not certain what may have happened to the comment that you say vanished. Please post it again, if you'd like.

Posted on July 18, 2005 9:05 AM

John Appel said:

Mr. Johnson, I guess its floating out there in cyberspace somewhere. No problem.

Posted on July 18, 2005 9:41 AM

mrproduce said:

It happens occassionaly Appel. I have made post and then discovered that they were no where to be found. Then I have gone back to re-post and wind up with a double post.
It happens!

Posted on July 18, 2005 2:00 PM

Mr. Sun said:

Allen -- I am apparently out there all by myself in my belief that the Klan should not be listened to.

Two questions:

1) Would you welcome testimony from an avowed Al-Qaeda member on the topic, "What brought us to September 11th?" (It would be relevant, but I wouldn't listen)

2) Before his death, did you support the idea that Yasser Arafat be ignored as a spokesperson due to his history of tactics. (He was clearly relevant, but I did support ignoring him)

If you answered yes to either or both, has the KKK not also disqualified itself based on its history and essence? Is there no limit to the good of talking? Does the value of speech wash over all we know about the speaker until we are giving the Ku Klux Klan the benefit of the doubt? Is it really anti-reconciliation of me in July of 2005 to have made a firm judgment that the KKK is evil and not worthy of my attention. I feel like I'm the only person on the planet who is having this problem with the weekend's testimony.

Collect their factual timeline data, but

Posted on July 18, 2005 2:57 PM

Mr. Sun said:

... but ... no more.

Posted on July 18, 2005 3:05 PM

Ed Cone said:

The Klansmen who spoke on Saturday added valuable context to the story of how we got to 11/3/79 by their statements of fact -- this is why I came to G'boro that day, this was an event beforehand that colored relations between the Klan and the CWP, etc. It would be hard to imagine this process without their participation. It was not a forum for them to justify their beliefs, but some of their stated opinions (eg, on labor unions) were useful in trying to frame the causes of the confrontation.

"Evil" and "not worthy of attention" are not synonyms.

Posted on July 18, 2005 3:41 PM

Mr. Sun said:

Ed -- It certainly *was* a broad public forum, and it certainly *was* on the broad topic, "What brought us to Nov. 3?" There were and are many ways to collect the Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan's testimony in a more narrow manner.

In any event, take a crack at the questions I asked. It's not a challenge, I'm trying to work my way to your view. Wouldn't Al Qaeda testimony "add valuable context to the story of how we got to 9/11 by their statements of fact?"

Posted on July 18, 2005 4:11 PM

Ed Cone said:

"Would you welcome testimony from an avowed Al-Qaeda member on the topic, 'What brought us to September 11th?'"

Absolutely. Again, not to hear some sort of ideological rationalization, but to understand better the planning and process that led to that day.

Posted on July 18, 2005 4:37 PM

truth said:

Mr. Sun,

I'm no fan of the Klan (maybe I should sell a T-shirt that says that). Since this is Truth and Reconciliation, I agree with mrproduce that their testimony is not only worthy of attention, but also necessary for either truth or reconciliation.

How can anything or anyone be reconciled if all the players aren't involved? Secondly, how can we know the truth if we don't hear all sides of it?

In reality, my truth is that I'm glad nobody has been shot and killed this time around. Of course, "Truth and Reconciliation" isn't quite as inflammatory as "Death to the Klan".
But I think it says a lot that people can come together and talk about why they disagree with each other instead of killing each other.

I'd much rather have a member of Al-qaeda talk about why they hate me than to fly my plane into a building.

Posted on July 18, 2005 4:38 PM

truth said:

Oops. Gave props to the wrong person. I should have said I agree with Ed.

Posted on July 18, 2005 4:41 PM

Mr. Sun said:

Well, I guess I'm too far out because you have a better sense of this than me. I still have this feeling that one consequence of this process is to temporarily *ignore* the truth of what the KKK, and maybe even the CWP actually are and thereby lower our first line of defense against them: a commonsense revulsion of their views.

Posted on July 18, 2005 4:50 PM

mrproduce said:

Mr. Sun,

One may listen to another and learn if they hear what the other is saying.
There is a vast difference in listening to someone and hearing what someone says.

If the Klan, the Nazi's and the CWP give only the whys and not the because why(rationalization) this situation occured and the TRC HEARS what has been said they can only come to the conclusion that all parties involved were wrong.

If that happens, then perhaps all involved will have learned something that will not allow another situation like this to occur again.

Had all sides in this situation had HEARD what the other side was saying in the incidents that preceeded the November showdown, it would perhaps not occurred. They listened to the noise but did not hear the words.

So yes, Mr Sun one needs not only to listen but to HEAR what the enemy( real or preceived) is saying.

Posted on July 18, 2005 10:27 PM

Allen Johnson said:

One footnote to this discussion: Critics complain that Nov. 3, 1979, is such a long time ago that memories have to have become fuzzier with the passing years.
On the other hand, often there's value in distance ... in taking a few steps back to better reflect on an issue.
Sometimes you can be too close to an incident, especially if pain and trauma are involved.
Sometimes you have to step away from a painting to understand what it represents.
We had to do that with Vietnam.

Posted on July 19, 2005 12:13 AM

mrproduce said:

I agree Allen. However those who helped paint the picture must first be willing to step back from the picture, otherwise they will continue to see only, thru blurred vision, the portion of the picture which they helped to paint.

The same thing happened with Vietnam.

Posted on July 19, 2005 11:18 AM

Mr. Sun said:

mrprodude: Um, no. On timeline and factual matters, sure -- Ed has convinced me. On matters relating to race, religion, and ideology -- guess what? I'm not interested in the Klan's views. I have, gasp, closed my mind to certain people and groups based on their behavior.

Posted on July 19, 2005 1:29 PM

mrproduce said:

Mr. Sun,
Then we fail to understand the enemy, real or preceived. I am not interested in furthering the klans views, the Nazi views, or the CWP or Al-Qaeda views but I will hear what they say in order to know how to defeat them before they can pull off another fiasco as occured on Nov 3 or 9-11.

Guess it is just my training Mr. Sun. I learned to listen, hear and stay alive.

Posted on July 19, 2005 2:19 PM

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