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Perception is reality for all of those polled. I tend to side with the perception of the black respondents. The white respondents are not living with the remnants of America's aparthied and so cannot possibly see things through black eyes.

Sure, the overall lot of the black population has improved in the last decades and things are better, but compared to what? The 1950's? The 1860's?

We've still got a long way to go and the polls are reflecting that reality.

David, I'm with you. We have made progress in the last fifty to sixty years, but anyone who thinks we don't still have a long way to go is indulging in wishful thinking and/or salving a guilty conscience and/or burying his/her head in the sand.

I'm part of that white 10%, too.

Regards,
Tony

One of the problems is that many folks believe conversations about race have to dwell on the past because everything is fine now.
Well, everything isn't fine now.

And frank, constructive conversations about race hardly are tethered to the past -- they are about the here and now. And the future.

Or at least they should be.

how is it you don't speak up? it is obvious that the black perception is wrong. i think people like you, who should speak up, but refuse to enter the battle are partly to blame.

And what do you mean things are not fine now? Are you referring to one side or the other?

Another question that perhaps should have been asked was "why were most of the victims stuck in New Orleans black?"

From my recollection, there were many black, hispanic and other minorities in the World Trade Center 4 years ago. Did that effect the rescue effort there as well?

I think this is a non-issue being made into an issue by people who are overly sensitive to race.

Regardless of the color of the victims skin, many made a choice to stay in New Orleans after being ordered out by their own Mayor.

The thing that people are overlooking is that people in Alabama and Mississippi and other areas in Lousiana were suffering as well. The media simply has neglected them to focus on the ridiculous stories of racism.

It is called victim mindset. Anytime a person is told they are a victim over and over by their leaders, who claim to want the best, but for whom is the question, the people remain victims.
Leadership speaks volumns of why the people in NO (and in many other parts of this country, G'boro included) respond to the polls in the way they do. When leadership becomes real leadership they will lead people out of victimization mind set and into freedom. Until then they will insist on keeping their underlings in slavery so they will have someone to lead.

My goodness, you write with such authority. How do any of you know that issues of race and racism aren't a problem anymore?
What evidence do you offer? Why do you immediately dismiss such concerns as frivolous and unfounded?

With all due respect, Mr. Johnson, while the polls may be reflective of beliefs, the constant reporting of them is nothing more than race-baiting.

You haven't answered my question.

Mr. Johnson,

Do you believe that non-whites can be racist or is it strictly a province of white people? If non-white racism doesn't exist, why not?

Nationally, we have the Kennedy and Clintons.

Closer to home we have the likes of Dot Kearns.

Liberal Socialist Ideaoligies of the ones listed above, have over the years, forced a group of people to become dependent on big government to do everything for them.

This group of people are mainly Poor and Black and have fallen victim to an educational system that does nothing to prepare them to live free of Government assistance.

Over a fifty year period, these victims have been programed to depend on Government to run their lives, many died ,,,,,,still waiting for Gov't to come to the rescue during Hurricane Katrina.

Where does the blame fall for the tragic events during and after the hurricane??????

The Mayor, Governor and the Federal Gov't can all share blame for this mess, but most of all the blame falls with those not willing to educate the masses well enough to avoid the Tragedies that occurred during the recent hurricane.

Mr. Johnson, we might be better served by asking WHY the numbers are so stark.
Is it because black leaders such as Rev. Jesse Jackson and Minister Louis Farrakhan have lied loud and long about the facts of this event? Is it because the news media have distorted and played the story for political purposes by telling black residents they were "victims" because of President Bush?
If a person is inundated with misinformation and biased opinions from TV, newspapers, and listening to liars such as Jackson, Farrakhan, Sharpton, et.al., long enough, he will naturally come to the conlusion that there must be something to what they say. This is especially true if the person has been convinced for all of his life that he is a "victim" by virtue of birth.
For Pete's sake, Farrakhan is now shouting that the Bush administration deliberately dynamited the levees themselves to kill black people! (Farrakhan does, however, fail to explain how the water was smart enough to know which way to run to find only black neighborhoods, but I'm sure he'll figure out a way to account for that as well.)

It is said that "perception is truth."
Sadly, the numbers reflect perception, not the truth.

NO was 80% black. The city has a large population of poor blacks who have been governed soley by the Democratic party since the 1930's. The Mayor and local political leaders (all Democrats) responsible for evacuation of the poor failed. The Feds, mostly Republican saved all but 4-600, albeit slowly and clumsily.

Are you implying the middle class Blacks and Democratic party left the poor on their own?

Allen,

Your question wasn't answered because it wasn't a legitimate one. Nobody said that race wasn't a problem anymore and nobody dismissed race problems as being frivolous or unfounded. What evidence from the posts above yours do you use to make such accusations?

The closest you would get would be my assertion that many of the 'racist' stories the media have focused on have been ridiculous compared to the real tragedy that has happened to people from all walks of life.

To Stormy on nonwhite people being capable of racism:
It depends on how strictly you define racism.
If you use it synonymously with the word "prejudice," black people, Hispanics, Asians and others can be as prejudiced or even more so than white people. In fact, I believe all human beings are prejudiced. The key is being aware of those prejudices and dealing with them.
If you define racism more specifically to mean the power (and desire) to act your on your prejudices to deny access and opportunity to others, it is still possible but less likely among nonwhites.
Most of the economic and political power in this country remains in white hands.

Now THAT I agree with, Allen. I think economics has much to do with it.

Would the poor white person on the rooftop receive slower response than the gold-bespeckled jew?

Judging from the tone of your comment, Truth, I'm not sure you do agree with me. "Gold-bespeckled jew"?

Mr. Johnson,

OK, I understood your varying definitions of racism, but my question to you is how do "you" define racism, and isn't that then a matter of "your" perception, which may or may not be reality? Taking a poll merely reflects people's opinions or perceptions. It does not measure the degree of reality. I believe that we would be a little wiser if we investigated the facts that contributed to the problem, rather than taking a poll of people's opinions.

The dictionary defines racism as: 1) The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others, 2) Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

These definitions make no reference to possessing power to enable one to act upon their predujices, so I would have the view that your first explanation for racism is the proper one; all people having predujices, white or non-white, and thus everyone possessing some elements of racism, perhaps some individuals to a greater degree than others.

I would have to further conclude that your second definition isn't really a valid definition of racism, even if you and others want it to be.

Stormy:
But that's beside the point, isn't it? Wouldn't you at least agree that having the power to act on your prejudices is even a worse simply being pejudiced?

The next thing I'll read about is that the hurricane was started be some white guy. He huffed & puffed and blew it clear accross the Gulf from Tampa.

Maybe GSO could loan its Truth & Reconcilation Panel to the cause. That should make everyone feel better.

Sigh. I think you have to suspend belief and reality to actually think that President Bush and crew just sat back on their asses and didn't do anything because they determined the folks in NOLA were poor and black and therefore not worth saving. The govt didn't act as quickly as it should have because it's a lethargic red tape hindered machine. It does nothing efficiently --NOTHING -- and I know as I have reported on and written about the Executive Branch for the past five years. If you don't want to believe me, ask a federal employee how long it takes to get a piece of paper from one end of the building to the other. And for allllllll you naysayers, I AM BLACK. Now, on to the race issue...its seeds were sown in the past, yes, but the rotten fruit droops from the vines today.

Ahh, Govwriter, your first sentence is the exact message that those who would keep the poor and black in NO (and around the country) in bondage are preaching. Would you not agree?

I go back to my previous post and say unless the so-called leadership of the poor and black can maintain the status quo, which they are doing by repeating the message your first sentence eluded to which even you conclude is beyond reality, they will have no one to lead.

"It is easier to remain a victim than to rise to victory." (me)

Alan, this is a blog. Why can you not give us your opinion? Why don't you speak out when the term racist is used inappropriately?

Allen,

Am I then to understand that you agree that all people have predujices, whether they are white or black, and that having economic power to act upon those predujices makes those people racist?

If that is so, then would you agree that if white power gave up all of that economic power to blacks, that black people would then become the racists?

Stormy:
That's not what I'm suggesting. Black people's progress doesn't need to come at the expense of white people.
We can succeed together. The keys are opportunity and access.
Further -- how do I put this delicately -- it is insulting and condescending to suggest that poor black people are poor because they want to be. Or because they like playing the victim.
Or because Jesse Jackson and Louis Farrakhan want them to play the victim, so they're happily complying.
Certainly there are issues of personal responsibility that more black people need to address. And I agree that black people need to attack issues such as crime, drug abuse and unwed mothers in our communities.
But the cycle of poverty is more complex than that. I also agree that the solution isn't a matter of merely throwing government money at the problem.
Bill O'Reilly, says (I'm paraphrasing here): If the poor black people in New Orleans had paid attention in school and gotten better jobs, they wouldn't have been stuck in a flooded city.
That's so callous and simpleminded. Some of the problems are systemic and involves such components as the dilemma of the working poor, the tyranny of subpar schools and proven inequities in the criminal justice system
I don't pretend to have all of the answers, but I'm discouraged that it's so hard for black people and white people to have an honest, constructive discussion about this without getting defensive or calling each other names.
Look, folks, I am a reasonably successful, college-educated black man who graduated from a good school with highest honors and earned a graduate degree.
I don't play the victim for anybody.
So why do you find it so hard to accept when I suggest that racial disparities still exist?

Not to mention that most black folks you talk to, poor and otherwise, would tell you that neither Jesse nor Farrakhan speaks for them. Those two are lightening rods (scapegoats?) for white people, black people moved on years ago.

Allen,

I can accept all that you just said, but how does it relate to what started this strand? You started this strand with a poll that said that a majority of black people believed that it was their race that slowed relief efforts for Katrina and that a majority of white people didn't believe that.

As you can tell, I am having a hard time following your rationale on this matter.

This strand eventually evolved into a discussion of racism which in your view is practiced by white people acting on their predujices using their economic power against black people, which, I suppose, is the result of white racism.

Now, if we want to have a productive discussion about race in this country, it seems to me that it shouldn't start with one group seeing racism in every event that has impact upon them. Bad things happen to people all of the time, and they are not always the natural result of white people's racism. It seems to me that throwing the race card out every time does not lead to a productive discussion, but rather places a barrier to discussion. There may be racial disparities that exist in this country, but it's not always a product of white racism.

When you suggest that racism results from white people using their economic power to act on their predujices against black people, I would ask if that then means that poor white people, who have always been poor and who hate black people merely because they are black, cannot then be racists?

Not by the second definition I mentioned. But they can be prejudiced.
And they can be pitted against poor black people, as has happened sometimes historically.
For all they have in common with poor black people, rarely have poor whites and blacks worked together for a common cause.

Ah, predujiced yes, but racist, no? So, we have determined that by Allen Johnson's measure that racism is a province only of white, rich people. No one else can be a racist; predujiced, yes, but not racist. They possess the only key ingredients of racism; predujice and economic means, and therefore, racism explains everything that they do. they really should be ashame of themselves.

Allen, if you would stop looking for racism behind every tree, you might see that race is not always the overriding factor of events, and it is not an easy answer for why things happen as they do. I know that you will never agree, but everything that happens in the universe is not race-related or the result of white racism.

Govwriter, I have to agree with you that black people have moved on when it comes to Jesse and Al. What I can not figure out. and perhaps you can shed some light on this. Why is it that Jesse and Al both jump in front of the camera's and claim to be the leaders of the African-American community, (words right out of thier own mouths) when in fact they are the anchors, the racist, that I have spoken of , that are holding down the poorest of the poor black Americans. Why is it that the MSM always interviews these two as the representatives of black America? I can only see two individuals who want power and the only way they know to get it is by claiming a postition that you and many others say they do not have. I respectfully ask again , the question Why?
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I just saw Jesse interviewed on the President's speech and when asked what HE would do all he could do was repeat the tired line of failure, failure. HE offered no real answers. Should he, claiming to be the spokesman not have some real ideas to offer other than "the government has to do..........."?

Allen you said "one of the problems is that many folks believe conversations about race have to dwell on the past because everything is fine now." I don't believe anyone truly believes everything is fine now. However, I strongly believe that we will never make progress if the problem is always framed in terms of white people doing bad things (consciously or not) to black people. People do not respond when they are constantly being blamed. They will simply tune out. Race discussions cannot be a one way street, nor can they be premised on the assumption that racism is always the problem. That is not an open dialogue, that is a debate.

You also said "most of the economic and political power in this country remains in white hands." This is true, but it is also a fact that whites outnumber blacks about 7 to 1, so your statement could also be explained by simple statistics. Consider that blacks are far more likely to vote for a black politician over a white politician than a white person is to vote for a white person over a black person. For example, Harvey Gantt's vote totals among blacks was much greater as a percentage than Jesse Helms vote totals among whites. A lot more white people voted for Gantt than blacks did for Helms. I will concede that Helms is not a great example, but you get the point. This voting pattern repeats itself all over the country every year. It suggests that blacks vote more based on race than whites do, so wouldn't that mean that blacks are more racist? I'm not saying that is the case, I'm merely suggesting that your broad assumptions generally fail when examined more closely.

You chided Bill O'Reilly for saying "if the poor black people in New Orleans had paid attention in school and gotten better jobs, they wouldn't have been stuck in a flooded city". You said that was simplistic. Maybe, but is it true? Not only for poor blacks, but for anyone? Perhaps O'Reilly's words could have been phrased better, but it appears it his underlying premise that you attack- that is that paying attention in school and therefore getting a better job is a laughable and ignorant solution. If education is not the way out of poverty, what is?

Again, I will reiterate that putting an entire race on the defensive will get you nowhere. Nobody will want to participate in a productive discussion where they are being accused of being a racist or are somehow ignorant if they don't begin the discussion from the premise that white racism is the problem, now let's see how we can help the black community. They just won't care. That is why so many whites believe the problem has been solved because all they here is NOISE. Every time something happens, it's because of racism. After a while, the boy cries wolf too many times and nobody listens. I tell you that I believe this is THE main reason the "white" perspective is so different. Many people believe that all the laws have been passed to end legal discrimination, and they don't feel any particular predjudice personally towards others, so they just don't understand the racism underneath every rock argument, nor do they care anymore. They believe that they have done everything that can be done and it is now up to individuals to improve their own situation.

I have said many times before that whites understate racism, and minorities overstate it. But it seems that in your world, only the first part of that phrase is true. I would love to sit down with you and some other people and have a truly open discussion, warts and all about race. But it will be a waste of time if it must begin with the premise that the solution necessarily must begin with white acknowledging that it is all their fault.

Allen,

Are you saying the term "Gold-bespeckled jew" made you feel I didn't understand you more than the term "poor white people"?

If so, why?

I'm saying the term was demeaning and offensive. At least it appears that way to me.

MrProduce: To answer your question, broadcast journalists are lazy (says the print journalist) and they are looking for soundbytes, not substance. And Jesse and Al have active PR machines. The grassroots folks doing the real work don't have or get access to CNN, MSNBC, FOXNews etc.

It was meant to be neither. It was just to contrast the race issue with the poverty issue.

Maybe rich white person and poor jewish person would have been less offensive (albeit less attention-grabbing)

I agree. Attention at that cost is not worth it.

govwriter, you have spoken the truth. It may not make you popular among the MSM but by golly you have nailed it. I have said that same thing for many years now.
It is unfortunate that there are some poor and uneducated who will continue to listen to the likes of those I have mentioned and remain "victims". What a shame that the MSM could not, as you spoke of, speak to the "real leaders" in the Black community. Then those "wanna be" leaders would have no one to lead and their voices would be silenced once and for all.
Thanks for confirming what I have felt for so long. If I said such, I would be called a racist.

Oh, I don't know about that, Mr. Produce. Everybody knows Sharpton and Jackson never met a TV camera they didn't like.
If you'd have said it, I would have agreed with you, too.

Well thank you Allen. Perhaps you wouldn't have but others have but then I suppose when one hits a nerve some can only stoop to name calling for they have no real anwers.

I wish everyone could have heard the comments made by a tall, regal, beautiful African woman as she addressed, in her heavey accented voice, a precious African American woman this past Monday evening. It was a beginning of an outpouring of feelings and conversation that is seldom heard. The hearts of both these wonderful women were opened and in turn it opened the hearts of all those in attendance, black and white alike. Healing came forth that only God Almighty can bring. It was an evening I shall never forget.

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