News-Record.com

And they say newspapers aren't liberal. ;-)

I think you're missing the key issue. While those other sins you list certainly take place among Baptists, there is little debate that they are wrong. I think it's understood that a Baptist church that decides to endorse lying would also be expeled from the convention. But there is an increasing sense that many people feel the way you do: that homosexuality isn't a sin, but a "preference." To Baptists and, in my view, according to the Bible, homosexuality is a sin and should be dealt with accordingly. In that vein, it seems reasonable for the state convention to take a stand against a sin that is in danger of losing sin status.

The fact that there's a war going on is beside the point. Should Baptists stop doing everything because there's a war in Iraq? Where do you draw the line?

Why draw any lines at all? Churches should be inclusive, not exclusive. Who's to determine whether a church should be excommunicated? Will there be inquisitors?

So you don't support a private organization's right to make rules that govern the conduct of its members?

What do you mean by "churches should be inclusive, not exclusive?" If you're not willing to draw lines, then your statement means every church must accept absolutely everyone, which, to me, seems like eliminating denominations and religions altogether.

Part of the problem is that the language used at the Baptist State Convention of N.C. isn't clear. Is allowing homosexuals to regularly attend services an affirmation or endorsement of homosexuality? I doubt it, but it really wasn't spelled out.

You're right about it being a private entity, but that doesn't mean its practices are above questioning, especially from a Baptist.
As for whether gays attending a church constitutes an endorsement of their lifestyle, that is fuzzy, isn't it? Who decides?

I'll be honest: This kind of discussion really irritates the mess out of me. I don't consider myself a Baptist, though I grew up in a Baptist home, and I don't claim to be a Christian. Most days. I'm firmly... well, an Agnostic, if I'm being honest with myself ("don't know whether to believe in anything or not...").

The point is, however, that the Church is supposed to be governed by the Bible, which says homosexuality isn't to be tolerated, *regardless* of what the SBC says. There simply isn't much left up to interpretation in this case (unlike the prohibition against ordaining women or a hundred other idiocies Paul decided to introduce; this *was* a guy that used to stone folks for fun, remember). A church that "knowingly affirms, approves or endorses homosexual behavior" is simply ignoring their own "law," and the SBC is simply acknowledging that reality in the rules that govern their organization.

Granted, I think the SBC also needs to consider stoning people to death for eating animal fat, but we won't go into that here.

And I don't think there's a huge debate within the Christian Church regarding the acceptability of lying, stealing, cheating, cursing, killing, or coveting, so I don't think the SBC sees the need to make a huge stand on any of those issues. There is, however, a big debate about *this* issue.

If you want to create another branch of Christianity -- or another religion, for that matter -- that embraces homosexuality, do so; shoot, there's always room for another denomination. Just don't try to make someone else change the black and white laws of their religion -- "handed down by God" -- because they aren't fair to one group or another. You aren't going to have a whole lotta' luck changing the text of the Bible, Mac.

-- A liberal-leaning Independent with Libertarian tendencies who's tired of people telling other people what to believe

Good points, Histrion. As I mentioned earlier, I am a Baptist, but not part of a church that is a member of this organization.
My problem is the selective enforcement of what they interpret as God's rules. If you're going to hew to the literal word of the Bible, then go all the way.
And why latch onto some of the most exclusionary rules?
Further, it is arguable that the Bible says homosexuality is wrong (it is also arguable that it does not), but according to the Gospel, Jesus didn't shun sinners. He went among them.
As for your suggestion that a new denomination be started, in a sense, it's already happening.
More moderate churches are splintering into their own groups.

Allen, I haven't read the SBC official writing on this as of yet but I would be curious to know and perhaps you could shed some light on the subject since you seem to have read this verbatium.
Did, anywere in this resolution, the SBC make a statement that would indicate that they are attacking the individual who professes to be homosexual, or are they making the statement that congregations who accept professing homosexuals into their membership and allow them to hold offices and such will be excluded.
My point is, are they attacking the sinner or the sin? If they are attacking the sinner, the homosexual, then they are doing like many who have land with kudzu growing on it and simply cutting it down but failing to remove the root. If they are attacking the sin, the root, then perhaps there is no real argument and especially one based on "what about the other sins".

Thank God they *aren't* "hewing to the literal word,"* Allen. There would be a great many good folks in our fair city lying dead in the streets.

Thankfully, Christ moderated some of the more strident language of the Old Testament and gave them some flexibility in that regard. ;-)

Point is, Christianity is a faith of inclusion, love, and community -- not the intolerant discipline that was old Judaism -- and folks in the Church need to reflect that. That does *not* mean, however, that they should sacrifice moral tenets of their faith in the face of societal pressure.

The SBC is often at odds with itself, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone in its leadership that would say gays should be excluded from the Church. That would simply be contrary to God's teaching and infalicitous to the Church's primary mission: Mission. If gays are doing something outside of God's word, they should be embraced by the Church in an effort to help them find their way into God's word, right?

Infelicitous, even. Sorry. Damn you, Spell Check, for making me too blasted lazy.

Histrion, you're right on most counts. But as I wrote earlier, the SBC is making choices here. Why, I am not sure. There are bigger moral fish to fry, if you ask me. For instance, poverty.

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