News-Record.com

Pure speculation, and I should add that I have zero background in psychology:

That kind of violence stems from rage, and that kind of rage often stems from fear. Perhaps just seeing a homeless person triggers in these kids some kind of deep-seated fear or insecurity that leads them to react violently.

What might they have to be afraid of or insecure about? I can think of many things ....

"But hardest to understand is the randomness, the lack of even irrational motive."

Excuse me... but this doesn't appear to make any sense. A person with no motive will do nothing. I think that's a sort of defininitive thing. People do things because they're motivated to do them.

Just because a kid is asked "why did you crack that poor man over the head with a bat?" and he answers "I dunno" -- it doesn't mean he had no motive. It means he either didn't understand his motive or he doesn't want to share it.

I've seen kids do a lot of horrible things with really unbelievable motives... boredom, hatred seated in prejudice, even looking for a thrill, under the assumption that they wouldn't get caught. Those are all motives that are understandable, even if they are extremely irrational.

You speak of psychological insecurities and motivation, but no one thought to mention monkey see, monkey do. Take a good look at the video games, music and movies our children are exposed to in large doses on a daily basis. Do you see a correlation to violent behavior patterns here? I certainly do.

Lets see, the kids are usually white, the victims are going to be black or of some colorful decent. So the motivation could quite possibly be race. I know in this town where race is everything, but yet swept under the carpet and avoided, this notion is not going to sit well with those of you who feel offended by the mere thought of race being involved, but take a deep breath and look at the totality of it all. With hate crimes soaring and the KKK and those similar groups coming out of the closet since Bush came to the W. House, those groups have been reinvigorated and tend to do what they do best, terrorize! Yet they don't fear repercussions cause people like Wray have their backs. I know Wray didn't actually have to see a case like this, but all of those like Wray, whether in NC or any state are the same they have a strong dislike of blacks and foreigners, so I choose to start with race as the motivation

As they say, Mitchell, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck ...

Mitchell, that's probably most ignorant and racially bigoted comment I've seen on here in quite a while.
So some kid beats homeless person and it's President Bush's fault? Chief Wray is in cahoots with skinheads preying on the homeless? The KKK is affiliated with the White House?
Most hate crimes are perpetrated by blacks against whites, check the statistics.
Mitchell, you need to shine up your tinfoil beanie and keep an eye out for the black helicopters.

Mr. Johnson, I am so very disappointed in your agreement with an obviously rabid racist. Yes! Blacks can be, and often are, RACISTS! Racism and radicalism have no COLOR. Hate flows both ways people. There are laws in place to deal with all forms of discrimination and several avenues for reporting these incidents. Laws which require investigation and either agreement or dismissal as invalid of the charge. But as long as we, both black and white, continue to hurl "names" at each other resentment and anger will continue to grow and divide us.

Jaycee,

In fact, I believe you need to go back and do your research. When I mentioned that the latest rash of hate crimes are being committed by young white males, I was merely using what was rec ently reported in the newspaper. I find it odd that you would accuse me of being bigoted as if I am ignorant in some fashion. In fact the more that you and those like you speak, I begin to feel very self-confident about my sanity, because I am looking the devil straight in his face and calling him (you) a lie. Also, I said those like Wray and yourself, if you took the time to read you would see where I said Wray didn't actually see a case like this in Greensboro. I also mentioned that since Bush has been the so-called president he has allowed a lot of the closet racist to come out who were in hiding during the Clinton years. So in fact why don't you take your white KKK hoodie to the cleaners or just take it off and be proud of the racist you are. I feel a blog is an opportunity for regular citizens to express themselves as they feel, however, if you feel comfortable with name-calling and so forth, all I can say is bring it on! Cause i am in it to win it! Peace!

Well, to Mitchell and everyone else, I am not comfortable with name-calling and will not allow it here.
So I would ask you all to frame your comments as if your children may read them.
Set a good example. Show them you can disagree without being disagreeable.
In other words, behave better than you've chosen to behave recently on the Chalkboard.
Thank you all in advance.

Ms. Bowers,

Rabid racist???!!! I don't get it! So you say I am a racist because I am basically reciting facts, mixed in with some personal opinion as you yourself have done. I agree that racist comes in all colors, in fact I don't like when my older brothers and sisters use reverse racism on whites, that I don't understand. But as they have informed me, I have never felt the humiliation of sitting in the back of the bus, being hosed for protesting to just be treated like a man etc. FYI...A black man who is willing to stand up and fight fire with fire, meaning racism against racism, is somewhat of a hero in OUR community, hence, we have black churches, black colleges, NAACP and weekly black newspapers, BET etc. They exist for the sole purpose of giving blacks the positive recognition in our community that is so often overlooked in the mainstream media. I am sure you can rebut this blog till you turn really really red in the face, so you too can bring it! Denial is a bitch!

Mr. Johnson,

I sincerely apologize! I just got caught up in the moment. I'm sorry.

Mitchell

No problem, Mitchell. Have it. Just keep it clean and civil.

Mitchell: “With hate crimes soaring and the KKK and those similar groups coming out of the closet since Bush came to the W. House, those groups have been reinvigorated and tend to do what they do best, terrorize! Yet they don't fear repercussions cause people like Wray have their backs. I know Wray didn't actually have to see a case like this, but all of those like Wray, whether in NC or any state are the same they have a strong dislike of blacks and foreigners, so I choose to start with race as the motivation”

Allen: “As they say, Mitchell, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck “

So Allen you are agreeing that David Wray is a racist? If not, would you be kind enough to explain what you mean?..

No, I was referring to the pattern of the assaults on the homeless.

Mr. Mitchell, I do indeed understand how it is to be beaten, heckled and jailed for my beliefs that ALL people must be treated with dignity and fairly no matter what race, sex or religion. If you would read my Jan. 15 post entitled “Hopes, Dreams and Reality” http://triadblogs.com/BrendaFayBowers/ you will see that I, a white female, was standing with your older brothers and sisters. For this very reason I am dismayed and broken hearted to hear statements such as you have made here. I have followed this outrage of the beating of homeless people as closely as the news media would allow and no where have I seen a hint that these crimes are race based. I maintain sir that you
do not KNOW what the FACTS are, and neither do I! If these crimes are indeed found to be racist then the laws we have put in place will deal with the FACTS. Your casting out unfounded claims of racism only causes resentment and hinders the understanding and harmony between all people. Do read my post it will enlighten you, because you see Blacks could not have obtained the rights they now enjoy if the majority of whites hadn't felt that these rights were God given to all human beings.

"(S)ince Bush has been the so-called president he has allowed a lot of the closet racist to come out who were in hiding during the Clinton years". -Mitchell

There is absolutely no evidence offered to support this position. I recall that Timothy McVeigh blew up the Murrah building under Clinton's watch. I recall that James Byrd Jr. was dragged to death when Clinton was president. I recall that David Duke ran for public office when Clinton was president. The list goes on. It just illustrates what an ignorant statement was made.

Allen apparently agrees that the crimes against the homeless are racial. He cites a "pattern of the assaults on the homeless". No evidence to support a "pattern" of "racial" assaults other than IN THIS CASE (which being singular, cannot be a "pattern")with the victim being black and perpetrators white.

No attempt by Allen to explain the reasoning when the victim is white and perpetrators are black, or when the victim and perpetrator are black. No attempt to challenge the statistics about black on white crime (why isn't that racial). Nope, ducks only quack in Allen's world when he can blame it on white racism. I expect more from a Chapel Hill man...

Allen also admonishes everyone to stop calling each other names. That's fine and acceptatble, except that Allen is out there on a consistent basis labelling people as racists.

Don't you have something better to think about when you get up in the morning than what you can find to label as racist each day? Really, you may need some therapy for your obsession. I'm trying over here. I really am, but you folks at the N&R make it so difficult for people to believe you have any rational way of thinking at all. You don't even attempt to find a middle ground.

Personally, I am really digging this dialogue! It's a start, now the objective is to find a common ground to further the conversation and seek positive results.

Actual statistics/facts rather than ridiculous conclusions and accusations based on who is president and the sound that a duck makes can be found here:

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/hcrvp.pdf

Do you see how reasonable that was? Just some facts, no accusations or jumping to conclusions. No name calling...

Sam:
I'm not sure where I've labeled someone a racist? I simply suggested that the attacks could in part be racially motivated. I'm sorry if you find that offensive.

Mr. Johnson, In my second comment in this dialog I told you that I was disappointed that you would agree with what sounded like a rabid racist in hopes that I could gently remind you that as a news paper person and an educated black man your comments have more weight and influence than do those of us in less public positions. You did not seem to get that gentle hint, so I will be more blunt: You sir have sounded like a racist all thru this dialog and as such are part of the problem and not part of the solution as you should be.

I'm not sure I follow you, Brenda. Which of my comments was racist and why?

The saying doesn't go "If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it COULD be a duck." Rather, it goes "if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it MUST be a duck." When Mitchell stated "but all of those like Wray, whether in NC or any state are the same they have a strong dislike of blacks and foreigners, so I choose to start with race as the motivation", you said "if it looks like a duck..." Of course this means that you agree that people "like Wray" have a strong dislike of blacks and foreigners. A strong dislike of an entire race is the hallmark of a racist. Hence, you are throwing labels out there. You seem to be trying to back off now.

I never accused you of being a racist. I just said you were wrong and seem prone to jump to conclusions by always seeing racism as the obvious explanation for things that may in reality have nothing to do with race.

I could say the same thing about the N&R's liberal slant and obsession with race "if it looks like a duck..."

I was referring only to the assaults on the homeless, Samuel.

If you've read what I've written about Chief Wray I hope you'd surmise that I am reserving judgment on his motivations until I know more.

Make no mistake, if I felt his motivations or actions were racist, I'd say so.

But I believe we need to know a lot more than we know right now to pronounce judgment on anyone yet.

You've always seemed fair-minded to me (in person and on the blog) so I'd guess we'd agree on that point?

Perhaps you should have been more specific with your "quacks like a duck comment". I actually was NOT referring to Wray- the original poster lumped Wray and the homeless assaults together as racial.

I do take issue with the automatic assumption that that the assaults were probably racially motivated because it does seem to be a recurring theme in your editorials that nearly all events where a black person is a victim can be traced to racism. This assumption is just as wrong as people who assume that nothing ever has to do with race. I have never made such an assumption. Hence, my comment about the N&R (not just you) never reaching a middle ground. Reason is lost in the conversation.

I never accused you of calling Wray a racist. However, the entire coverage of this story by the N&R has started with the premise that racism is the underlying issue when that has yet to be determined and other rational explanations have been made. It could be both, but that fact seems lost on the N&R who it seems would much rather prefer that the story be framed in terms of race to the exclusion of other theories. This is a pattern.

I think I've been easier on you than I have on JR. That's because you are charged with writing opinion, and you are entitled to yours. JR on the other hand is charged with news, and seems blind to the bias and obsession with race that invades his supposedly objective news coverage. That is not fair.

Samuel:
I'm not asking you to be easy on me. Just fair. As for racial motivation in the beatings, I have nothing but the evidence to point to. Could be merely coincidence, just as it could be coincidence that more homeless people happen to be getting beatings these days. But I suspect that it's more than that.

Mr. Johnson, Feigning puzzlement is certainly beneath both of us. However since you wish to play the game I will answer you question: To Mitchell, “if it quacks like a duck……” in response to his vitriolic rant.

Ms.Bowers:
Hope you saw my earlier comment. It addresses what I meant by that remark.

You might reach that conclusion if you looked only at those publicized incidents in a vacuum and ignored all the other statistics about victims, the demographics of the homeless, etc. That's called jumping to conclusions. I don't think that's right, but at least you confine it to the opinion pages.

Samuel:
What do the statistics tell you?

"Allen is out there on a consistent basis labelling people as racists."
- Sam Spagnola, Jan. 26 12:39pm

"Sam:
I'm not sure where I've labeled someone a racist?"
- Allen Johnson, Jan.26 1:26pm

"I never accused you of being a racist."
- Sam Spagnola, Jan. 26 8:41pm

And here I've always been told that reading comprehension is a critical skill for lawyers.

Truly, Sam, on these pages the only obsession with race is yours and Jerry Bledsoe's. When white men become a minority in this country and split off to form their own government, I'm sure you'll both be offered a high-ranking office in their Ministry of Defense. What would they do without people like you to sacrifice and fight the good fight?

I'm sure you shall overcome, someday.

Chewie, If you will go to the very beginning and read Comment #4 by Mitchell and Comment #5 by Allen Johnson you will see what Sam and I are both berating Mr. Johnson for. It is indeed a rabidly racist comment (4), dittoed by a "quack" (5) that should not have been uttered by someone in Mr. Johnson's influential position, even if it is his opinion. Now I promise you Mr. Johnson I am getting out of this one, but will see your tomorrow.

Chewie, Mitchell made an overt and outrageously bigoted statement above, and Mr. Johnson agreed with it. Mitchell thinks that because some kid beats homeless person that it's President Bush's fault. He opines that Chief Wray is in cahoots with skinheads preying on the homeless. And he espouses that the KKK is affiliated with the White House.
Mitchell has a right to these opinions, and I have a right to have an opinion of those who agree with him. I was surprised to see Mr. Johnson stoop to the level of the racebaiter Mitchell, but to rephrase Mr. Johnson's own words, if Johnson ..."walks like a Mitchell Duck and quacks like a Mitchell Duck" then what should I think other than that Mr. Johnson is on the same page as Mitchell?

Let's really analyze the following statements:

"Allen is out there on a consistent basis labelling people as racists."
- Sam Spagnola, Jan. 26 12:39pm

"Sam:
I'm not sure where I've labeled someone a racist?"
- Allen Johnson, Jan.26 1:26pm

"I never accused you of being a racist."
- Sam Spagnola, Jan. 26 8:41pm

Note how my FIRST comment did not accuse ALLEN of being a racist; rather I accused him of labeling OTHER PEOPLE of being racists. Therefore, my LAST comment that I never accused ALLEN of being a racist is not inconsistent. I don't believe Allen is a racist. I do think he does consistently make assumptions about race and finds racism at every opportunity regardless of the logic or facts.

No lawyer tricks here.

Perhaps my numerous points on race do wear thin. That should only highlight how annoying it is for the N&R to constantly harp on the issue. I wouldn't be here posting if they weren't constantly raising the issue. I would love to talk about other subjects, and I often do. But the race thing just gets my goat because I think it is highly destructive to promoting real progress in race relations.

Chewie, you also said "When white men become a minority in this country and split off to form their own government". If this nation was truly the cauldron of racism you claim, and white men really had it in for blacks (ALL white men of course, because we think as a group- never mind the political party demographics, ethnic backgrounds, religions, etc.) we could create a separate country right now.

It was all those white men on the Supreme Court, in the Congress and fighting in the Union army that eliminated slavery and passed the laws to end discrimination. Clearly, your observation is ignorant or purposely misguided.

Samuel:
I agree. Race isn't always an issue. It probably isn't an issue most of the time.
But it remains a nagging problem in this city and this country.
For instance, it is inpossible -- and would be foolish -- not to recognize that the Chief Wray controversy has a troubling racial dimension to it, no matter where you stand on Wray's demise and the reasons for it.
We can confront the problem head-on and talk about it. Or we can pretend it's not there.
I choose the former, and I feel no need to apologize for doing so.

Well, let this be my last word on this post. It may come out that the Wray matter has a troubling racial dimension to it. However, at this point no evidence has been produced that race played a role. Allen, answer the question- if Wray did the same thing to a white officer, would there be a troubling racial dimension to it? Are the actions because of race or in spite of race? It just seems that the assumption is if one person is white and the other is black, race must be a factor. That is an assumption made by the N&R over and over. When they are wrong, you never hear about it again. When they are right, that's all you hear.

For example ....????

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