News-Record.com

I have no doubt that in 2013 you'll be digging through the archives once again.

Dot Kearns will still be sitting on the School Board..she'll have to be wheeled up in her wheel chair with the oxygen tank attached.

And we'll still be asking the question: Why is diversity crammed down the throats of the High Point students--all the while their scores will still be on a downward spiral--while Greensboro gets lily white Northwest and beautiful black Dudley.

Nope, I predict not even in 2013 will our School Board be able to answer that question...

Another prediction: by then, Guilford County schools will be nothing but a Welfare Agency.

Black and White:
I'm not sure what you mean by the welfare agency comment. Also, what do you see as a constructive solution -- beyond your concern for revenge for what see as unfairness in High Point?
Do you support diversity as a goal?
Does it bother you that schools and neighborhoods remain largely segregated?

Those from Greensboro that want diversity want it for the sake of the greater good..

...but if you have a High Point address and you speak out for diversity..it must be for revenge.

That backward thinking will get us no where.

Also, the Welfare agency comment means those that can afford it are getting the hell out of public schools. It cannot be denied.

The ONLY constructive solution is a ONE county approach. Whether it be Open Enrollment, Busing for diversity...a Lottery..it has to be county-wide whatever it is.

Black and White:
On that point, you and I agree. I don't hear the words "greater good" a whole lot these days.

Allen, all you've done to date with your "diversity crusade" is take SW High- a school with a minority fraction of 44%, a school that has many if not all the attributes that you list above as being desirable and what we should be striving for, and helped some corrupt board members and the High Point NAACP scam a few extra white kids away from it to serve their needs-whatever they may be. You have done absolutely NOTHING to adress diversity in the real places that truly AREN'T diverse.

The High Point fiasco has served as nothing more than a saftey release, a way for both you and Greensboro members of the board to pretend they are adressing this issue when the reality is; they've done absolutely nothing and will continue to do absolutely nothing. You can't face this, because it makes a mockery of yourself.

Write the editorial now, Grimsley to Smith/ Page to Dudley. Do it!!!!

Frankly, John, I'm not sure such a plan would work. Have you looked at those schools' numbers?

Any uncertainty about whether a plan "would work" or not has NEVER stopped you in the least from endorsing selective lottteries or surgical re-districting in someone else's town, Allen. For some reason it seems to be a hindrance in your town? Very curious, huh?

I didn't say it wouldn't work but the math looks shaky. Wouldn't you agree?

People the Civil Rights movement was fought to gain the right of the people to CHOOSE! what they wanted to do and where they wanted to live and eat and sit on a bus and who they wanted to vote for, and on and on. The Right to Choose for themselves and not be told by anyone or any government where and what they could do. Bussing in the late ‘60’s had to be done to break down barriers and force people to acknowledge each other and each others rights. This has been accomplished. Blacks and Whites work together, play together, marry, go to the same restaurants/concerts/ sports events/ whatever with no one even considering it wrong or unusual or giving it any thought at all.
Now we do really and truly have a problem in our schools and that is that our children are not being educated. Numerous studies have shown that the main reason for this is the lack of parental involvement in their children’s schools. Bussing was seen as the reason for this. When the Neighborhood Schools were abandoned the parents felt disenfranchised and alienated from their children’s schools. The “community spirit” that you spoke of Mr. Johnson did not follow the children as they were scattered over the city or county. The parents weren’t meeting friends and neighbors with the same values at the Parent Teachers Meetings. Educational standards have been going down since. Parents are coming to recognize this and want to take their schools back; to become involved and to get their children the best education possible.

So, some schools are becoming racially imbalance; So what? People choose where they want to live and therefore the schools their children go to. We who were on the early front lines in the Civil Rights movement hoped that all neighborhoods would be mixed, but common sense told us it wasn’t going to be that way. Mr. King spoke to this issue and he knew that just having the right to chose would free us all. Can’t we just leave it alone and do the best thing for our children?

By the way, I live in Lake Brandt Apartments a gated community in the northwest area off Old Battleground. There are 284 apartments and I am pretty sure that half of them are Black families and half is White families. I have no figures but just looking at the children at the school bus stop tells me that the numbers are fairly equal.

Allen, "shakey math"? oooooh -a brand new concept! How unusual. Could you be more specific, please? (Feel free to seek asistance from Dr. Z).

Brenda,,, you rule!!!!

"If we'd just live together all of this perpetual redistricting would be unnecessary."

Where should we live together- in the mansions in Irving Park, the McMansions in Summerfield, St. James Homes, College Hill, Emerywood?

Oh wait, people usually decide where to live based on their income and housing needs, not on what color the neighbors are. So how would your simplistic solution actually work? How is the guy making $20,000 per year going to afford to live next to the guy making $120,000 per year?

If you are a black man making $120,000 per year, where are you more likely to live? St. James, Glenwood, English Woods in High Point, Adams Farm or Oak Ridge?

Your problem is not about race, Allen, it's economics. The middle class lives with the middle class- regardless of race, and so forth.

If we simply relied on neighborhood schools, which is what most people want from all races, we wouldn't need perpetual redistricting.

You seem to not understand the difference between legal forced segregation which was banned 30 years ago, and segregation based on housing patterns. There is no "separate but equal" anymore, and you do nobody any service when you act like there are still laws in place mandating segregation, or that neighborhood school systems are designed to segregate. You always choose the extremes - all black Dudley vs. nearly all white Northwest. You ignore the schools in between that are largely diverse - Page, Grimsley, Southwest,
Ragsdale, etc. These schools are diverse because they serve diverse neighborhoods. Kind of shoots down your whole "separate but equal" argument.

It would also be interesting to see if there is any difference in scores between the diverse schools mentioned above and the less diverse schools mentioned above.

Perhaps our time would be better spent focusing on the issues that effect all of the schools, such as overcrowding, than wasting it on race based policies that have no emperical data to support their usefullness and usually cause more problems for everyone involved.

Allen,

You keep insisting that neighborhood schools are bad and those kids need diversity to learn, but when asked about redistricting or busing kids to and from Dudley to achieve it, You always complain about it won't work at Dudley. The math is shaky, the distances are too far, yada, yada, yada.

Allen, you need to put up or shut up. If diversity is desirable, then find a way for Dudley to get diversified. My guess is that you really don't want diversity at Dudley; it's too difficult. But, you sure can support it in someone else's backyard. Those kids need diversity everywhere but Dudley, right? Your credibility on this issue is about gone, Allen. Find another subject for your editorials.

Allen,

I did the math. The numbers aren't shaky at all.

If you were to swap kids between Grimsley and Smith, the results would be: 48.51% FRL at each school and 63% non-white.

If you were to swap kids between Page and Dudley, the results would be 45% FRL at each school and 73% non-white.

Now, contrast this with the proposed numbers for the High Point schools next year:

Andrews is proposed to be 43% FRL and 68% non white.

Central is propsed to be 53% FRL and 62% non white

WOW - the NUMBERS LOOK QUITE GOOD TO ME!!!!!

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE HERE??????????

Numbersgame, YOU ARE A GENIUS!!!

What do you have to say about that Allen? Speak up, man. See, it's not hard at all. You just run the buses in a different direction. All of sudden, I'm embarrassed for you! You have dug a hole you can't get out of.

Thanks for all the compassion. But the numbers don't work. That leaves overwhelmingly unbalanced schools elsewhere. Diversity needs to be a systemwide goal.

Allen,

You miss my point.

school % non white %FRL
Andrews 68 43
Central 62 53
Grimsley/Smith 63 48.5
Page/Dudley 73 45

I smell something unpleasant here.

I recall the N&R writing in favor of the latest round of redistricting in High Point.

The numbers in a proposed Page/Dudley swap and Grimsley/Smith swap are VERY, VERY similar to those in High Point.

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE?????

my white space was stripped.

Let me try again:

School.........%non white...........%FRL
Andrews.............68................43
Central.............62................53
Grimsley/Smith......63................48.5
Page/Dudley.........73................45

Allen, since you admit the numbers wont work why dont you drop the diversity broken record thingy. My advice is for you to read the Dudley, Smith and Central independent audit reports.
All of those reports have concrete recomendations to improve these schools. I am sure that some of the recomendations can be applied to other schools too.
If the N&R focus and promote some of them then you will be doing the county great service. Otherwise this conversation is just going around and around with nothing getting done. Stop wasting energy. Lets pull together to get some of those recomendations implemented!

Yes, I suppose you can only divide a person into so many pieces. It looks like the only way to get Allen's model would be to transfer students between Dudley and Northwest. That is what you mean about leaving "overwhelmingly unabalanced schools" (i.e, Northwest), isn't it Allen ?

Let's say you have 10 schools, and you have 12 people to attend those schools. Each school has to have at least one person. Of the twelve people, 6 are black, 4 are white, one is hispanic, and one is asian. How are you going to get each school to be diverse? You can change the numbers from 12 to 12,000, 6 to 6000, etc. You will still have the problem if you are looking for the same ratio. You can only divide so many ways to keep the ratio's you want.

Also ask yourself what the ratio should be? Should it be based on population as a whole, or only school aged kids, or only school aged kids in the public schools? Who comes up with the formula? You can't determine whether the math is right or wrong until you know what ratio you are after.

"Diversity needs to be a systemwide goal" ... so we can achieve (please fill in the blank). Allen, you still have not provided me with any data to show that districting based on diversity yields better results with fewer consequences than a policy based on neighborhoods schools. I've asked three times this year so far.

"Diversity" is a meaningless term. It has been corrupted in this case into politik-speak. It is a perfect term for politik- speak because it can't be defined with certainty and therefore can be used and corrupted by the people in power to achieve their agenda at their lesiure, which is EXACTLY what has been done in this case. You can't challenge "diversity" with any numbers or common sense because you're comparing apples to oranges. Politicians have been doing this since the beginning of time and like we said before it is totally expected. Politicinas can steal my money, they can gerrymander themselves into perpetual office but you CANNOT gerrymander children. This is where the line is crossed. A pox on all politicians with the temerity and shamelessness to do such a thing.

Allen, I just re-read this story from the N&R back in October:

http://www.news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051009/NEWSREC0101/51009006/1008/NEWSREC020104

Of particular note and supported with actual data instead of utopian visions of Shangri-La was the following passage:

"The findings mirror research from across the country that shows that what makes a school succeed or fail largely depends on factors outside the school’s control."

The story went on to say how race had little to do with academic performance, rather wealth was the key indicator. Now we can't make everyone earn the same amount of money and live in the same neighborhood without a communist form of government. So if communism is not your solution, then what is? How do you raise incomes and dictate housing patterns without Big Brother?

Allen, I'm starting to get it. You're just echoing the 'party line' when you say the numbers won't work. You don't really want anybody to look at this, of course you don't. You're just saying the same thing Kris Cooke or Marti Sykes said when they were asked why they beielved so strongly in diversity in High Point but felt differently about diversity in G-Boro. You're sitting back and having a chuckle like Deena and Bruce Davis and Dot and the High Point Alstons. You finally got the chance to give a little of the shaft back to the people who you think have been giving it all these years. The pathetic thing is; you're shafting would-be sympathetic people whose kids attend a diverse high school- people who more than likely had NOTHING to do with any injustices perpetrated against anybody (if this was the case, you'd be socking it to Irving Park and the High Point oligarchs not helping them)

You're acting like you're just another part of the scam.

Well, actually I'm not. I'd argue for racial and socioeconomic diversity all around.

Good.

Allen you said "I'd argue for racial and socioeconomic diversity..."

In High Point we know that means "I WOULD". How about saying "I'll argue for racial and socioeconomic diversity all around."

FYI, that means "I WILL".

I have and I will. Will you help?

Yeah Allen, my kid's white @$$ will be bussed to Andrews starting next year to help their test scores. I guess I'm doing my part. What will you do?

What, precisely, is the advantage of diversity, other than nebulous feelgoodism? Is there a serious argument that it improves educational achievement across the board? Or does it (as I would argue) merely mask mathematically the fact that poorer and blacker populations have lower educational achievement than richer and whiter ones?

Do richer and whiter kids send out magical brainwaves that make everyone else smarter? Do they help retain good teachers because they pose fewer discipline problems? What, precisely, are the mechanisms by which importing richer and whiter students to Dudley would solve its problems?

If you want to value diversity for diversity's sake, fine. But if you want to argue that it will improve educational achievement, then argue it.

Am I to believe from Allen's comments that he won't support a plan to diversify Dudley and Smith using Grimsley and Page because it would leave Northwest undiversified, and I suppose, that would be unfair? I don't get it. I thought that Allen suported diversity as the means to improving public schools. Why would he object to a plan that accomplishes that diversity out of spite for Northwest?

As I recall awhile back when I suggested a choice plan for Dudley and Northwest, Allen said that wouldn't work because the distance is too far. Now, that there is a suggestion that would work distance wise, Allen says the numbers don't work. Is there no satisfying this man? Yeah, Allen, the numbers do work, but you really don't want it to happen. You just want to talk the party line about diversity, but when the time comes to actually doing it, you're just a big talker. Besides, if you really made a push for desegregation of schools in Greensboro, you'd get called on the carpet by da man. And, we all know who that is, dont we?

Do us all a favor, Allen, and quit writing editorials about diversity in the schools and all of that. You don't really believe it and want it. You're just a hypocrit, Allen.

Allen,

It's time for the News-Record to get going and be an advocate for our schools. Lately, all that your newspaper has done is make excuses for Grier and the school board. Following is an editorial by your fellow newspaper in High Point. They now have awoke and speak the truth.

We aren’t certain that Superior Court Judge Howard Manning has the authority to order 19 high schools in North Carolina to close if they don’t improve state testing scores this year.

But that’s really not the point in this matter.
The real issue here is the continued poor performance of students in those schools, staff and leadership in those schools and education administrators and elected officials who are entrusted with the task of overseeing the schools.

In the 19 schools Manning spotlighted – including Smith and Dudley highs in Greensboro, which have high minority populations – only about half of the students have shown grade-level proficiency on end of course tests for the past three years. Any school making it four in row must close, Manning says.

Forcing Smith and/or Dudley to close would present a logistical nightmare for Guilford County Schools, so Superintendent Terry Grier and school officials have come up with plans to improve student performance at Smith – create two early college academies at Smith that feature special studies in medical technology and construction technology.

Sound familiar? It certainly should to folks in the High Point area. It’s a similar tactic Grier and Guilford school leaders used to address concerns about poor student performance at T.W. Andrews and High Point Central highs – bring higher performing students via special programs into a school that has significant numbers of lower performing students.

Such a strategy might get Judge Manning off their backs if more students in a school overall do better in their courses. But it doesn’t solve problems, it only masks them.

Smith and Dudley have compiled these records because students are doing poorly in math, English, reading and other basic education courses, not specialized education programs. And the same even can be said for too many students at numerous schools that aren’t on Manning’s list.

Leaders at community colleges here and around the state are complaining that many students they are receiving today need remedial math and English courses just to get them ready for the community college curriculum. That is evidence that high schools, in particular, are not demanding enough from students in the basic courses that prepare them to be functional students or citizens.

This isn’t to say that vocational education programs are bad ideas. They are very beneficial for some students. Every student is not cut out to attend Harvard, so schools must offer courses that help prepare students for vocations or for additional career training courses after high school.

But these special programs, whether they are called early colleges, magnets or whatever, are not substitutes for setting higher standards, intensifying instruction and demanding excellence from students in the basic courses that they are performing so lowly in right now. This is what must be done in Guilford County, the Triad and North Carolina so Judge Manning never has to make another list of schools to close, whether or not he actually can.
 
We must demand more from students and from education leaders, too.

That is very interesting.

This is the sort of thing the N&R should be reporting.

At least one thing has changed. Dudley got a nice new facelift without the whites students coming.

Isnt it one one of the best HS in the county.

timesrachangin,

That's what Guilford county schools are ALL about--how things look on the OUTSIDE.

Allen, STOP drinking the BOE kool-aid! For the love of God, STOP!!!!! Next you'll be letting them force-feed you those weenies that Dotty's been seen eatin'!

timesachangin,

isn't that a joke. always saying the whites have better facilities and equipment. now a black school has a better facility so this should definitely bring success. there is no one to blame now. they have "the best"

as to some of Allen's other comments. I wish Southwest and Andrews could get to keep their sports teams and traditions. it would be so great to just have this without all students being split up and shipped all over High Point.

A QUESTION FOR ALLEN:

Why in the world does Aycock Middle School not feed into Dudley? I thought it is very close to Dudley?

Allen, it says your column above was written in 1999. What was your column written in relation to. What were you re-acting to? Was it the '99 High Point re-districting? I was not keyed in to school issues at that time since my kids were in grade school and I didn't know what was going on.
Who was fighting who at that time? Does anyone out there in blog land remember or want to shed some light on this.

Absolute Bravo to Amos' LTE in N&R today. Note to Dot, HP NAACP, and other assorted High Point would-be kidnappers! THIS IS HOW SCHOOLS GET FIXED. Not by going out and kidnapping people from somewhere else and bringing them to your school or not by dumping a bunch of unsuspecting people you consider undesirable out of your school and shipping them down the road! The buck stops right there.

John Gehris: The Guilford BOE approved its countywide redistricting plan in April 1999 after nearly three years of debate and discussion. (I covered all that for the N&R.).

The diversity vs. close school issue was a big part of the discussion then, too.

Allen,

I grew up in a town which had one middle school and one high school and if you lived in that town, you went to school there, with everyone.

I wish the school board would go to neighborhood schools and help the schools that need the help, make classrooms smaller, pay teachers in those schools more ( so those schools attract the best teachers )and let the kids have pride in themselves, their schools, their teams and their neighborhoods.

I think too many kids are worried about being gangsters and not about what happens after high school, when they can't read or write.

One more point, whatever happened to Auto Shop class for those kids who were not going to college? Where did that class go????

I enjoy your writing

David

I agree that, in an ideal world, neighborhood schools would be wonderful.
Sadly, this isn't an ideal world. Too many neighborhoods remain segregated, economically and racially.
A reminder: Before 1971, when I attended Dudley, we had a "freedom of choice" plan in which you theoretically could go to any school you wished, although transportation to that school might be up to you and your parents -- depending on your choice.
The courts found this system flawed and inadequate, however, because it still resulted in separate but unequal schools.

A question for Question:
Do you feel slightly awkward talking about what black students have in their schools versus what white students have in the year 2006?

Mr. Newsom, three years of debate and discussion sounds a little better than three weeks, like before the "choice plan" vote. Still, if someone's kids got moved against their will for someone else's politics-always unacceptable-no matter if it's three weeks or three years.

Allen, if "freedom of choice" cannot solve the problem of unequal schools, what possible system could work?

A community that cares about the quality of education in all public schools and that consents to placing extra resources at those schools (sometimes meaning a sacrifice by other schools.)
And, of course, more diverse student populations.

Allen,

By "extra resouces", are you talking white kids? Money is fine, equipment, teachers, programs, etc..but if you advocate for the children themselves to become "resources"--to be shipped across town, that's where you lose me.

And unless you are advocating for a socialist system of home buying, you are not offering real solutions either.

Maybe, just maybe, our school system will have to learn to teach the children no matter where they reside..trailers, cardboard boxes, shelters, condos, mansions...imagine that, REAL education with no real concern about who's sitting next to whom.

That's my dream. That's why my kids are in private school. We'd like for them to learn, not be some "resource" to be bused, to change a ratio.

All of you, answer me this: Would you have sent your kids to Dudley if it had been closer, as it was to many white students in 1971?
After all, it was their "neighborhood school" then.
And to "My Kids aren't Pawns," you don't really believe white kids are smarter than black ones, do you? I'm misinterpreting, right?
Also, I surmise your private school is in your neighborhood?

No Allen the private school we send our daughter to isn't even in the same zip code. It's further away than the losing lottery ticket our daughter was assigned last year.

It's really easy to find our daughter, drive right past the one of the HP schools that is failing and is always featured in the weekly crime report in the N&R. Go about 1 more mile and you are there.

It would be the school where education comes first. As far as diversity, if you have the cash you child is more than welcome to attend whether he/she is white, black, indian, asian, plaid, houndstooth, it doesn't matter.

No confederate bills, checks are preferred.

Oh and one more thing, make sure your kid doesn't act up, then they are gone no matter how much money you have.

MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE MEGSPASE