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Allen, the scientist failed to mention that a good examiner can detect the majority of the false positives and thus cut the error level to less than even the 98% you mentioned as being attained in your previous article. The true numbers lie somewhere between 92% and 98% according to those in the business.

Where did the number of 25% of FBI applicants fail actually come from Allen? I am sure that my friend and somewhat relation would be interested to know since she has been in the business for over 20 years now.

Mr. Produce:
On the issue of false positives, who's to say for sure than the examiner's right?
Did you notice this passage in the Post story:

"Previous efforts to implement wide-scale testing were met with fierce opposition not only from rank-and-file employees but also from senior government officials. In 1985, President Ronald Reagan scaled back an order requiring thousands of government employees to submit to polygraphs after Secretary of State George P. Shultz threatened to resign if ordered to take one."

Your quote about the 25% failure rate does not specify if that is “false” positives or people who have something in their background which causes them to be excluded from the FBI selection process.
The High Point Police Department (among many others) used polygraphs for years in pre-employment screening, I don’t know if they do now or not. According to the Chief Faircloth in 1978 (in a personal conversation with me) the senior officers thought it was a great idea, until he suggested polygraphs for ALL employees, not just applicants. None of those old heads thought that was a good idea!
Polygraph certification requires about a 6-month course, which covers every possible physical and physiological aspect of testing. This is probably one of the most intensely trained areas in technical law enforcement expertise. Examiners are rarely wrong in their assessments, but sometimes the results can be “inconclusive” due to subject matter, degree of involvement in the issue at hand by the test subject, and many other factors. If it’s clearly truthful, the examiner knows it. If it’s clearly deceptive, the examiner knows it. If it’s inconclusive, the examiner knows it and calls it as such.
Perhaps the most useful aspect of a polygraph examination in a criminal investigation is the mental pressure it puts on the subject. Putting a suspect “on the box” is often used to soften up the suspect for an intense interview, during which the polygraph results may even be misrepresented by the police to get the suspect to admit the truth. And, yes, the Courts have said that it’s legal to lie to a suspect to get him to admit the truth. Polygraphs are often used on witnesses by the prosecution (especially in drug cases where you have one druggie testifying against another) to insure that only the truth will come out on the witness stand.
The polygraph is just another tool in the bag for investigators; it’s not the Magic Bullet.

Allen, who is to say the examiner is wrong. Certainly not me. I'd rather trust the word of someone who has been in this business for a good many years than a second hand guess. How about you?

You are correct John A. It is no magic bullet and it is just another tool. Link the poly with an examiner with a lot of experience and training it would seem that the outcome would be rather positive.

Roughly one out of 10 produces a false result and, let's see, eight council members are taking it. I don't know if I'd stake my reputation on those odds or my undying faith in a polygraph examiner.

Allen, with all due respect, you don't know what you're talking about.
Have you ever taken a polygraph? Completed a course of study in which polygraphs examination techniques were taught? Sat with a polygraph examiner and developed questions to be used on criminal suspects in a polygraph? Seen results from those questions? Interviewed subjects after polygraph examinations?
It's easy for someone who has no special knowledge of polygraphy to read a report or newspaper article and quote percentages, false positives, etc. But if you knew anything about them you'd know how they work and what those statements really mean. Does that mean deception on relevant or non-relevant questions? How did they measure when they were wrong? Did they get a confession of truth/guilt after what you term "wrong" results which means the polygraph did it's job in making the truth come out?
I understand you're doing all you can from your high position to minimalize Bellamy-Small's serious breach of faith with the voters, but you're only clouding the issue.
Just my $.02.

No, Jon, I have not taken a polygraph test. And I agree that they can be a helpful interrogation tool. But valid studies do raise questions about how their accuracy and how appropriate it is to use them as the council now is attempting to.
Isn't it interesting that they're worried now about the impact of stress on the results?
As for Dianne Bellamy-Small, I don't know whether she is the leaker or not. But I'm more concerned about the effects of false reports on the city's credibility than whether she is identified as the person or one of the persons who shared the report. It would be ironic if she is; she has been the least communicative City Council member with the press since she's been in office.

Allen, you don't even know the questions they'll be asked or the manner in which they'll be asked. I assure you they'll be very limited in focus.
If you knew more about polygraphs, you'd know about the effects of normal stress on test results versus deception by the subject.
I suggest you call Greensboro PD or Sheriff Barnes and sit down with an examiner and learn the truth about these tests, the way they're administered, effects of different stimuli, etc. Maybe not for publication, but for your own edification. I think you'd be surprised at what you'd learn.
Interesting discussion, we'll have to wait and see what transpires from here.

Good suggestion, Jon.
I may do just that. I'm sure it would be insightful.
As for false positives, you disagree with the researchers who have expressed concerns?

Allen, it's hard to say because I don't know the substance or parameters of their research. Without looking at their test data and seeing exactly what constitutes their determination of a false positive it would be hard for me to form an opinion.
A polygraph is usually not a definitive verifier of the truth, but rather a tool used to get to the truth. I'm not sure how to further explain that. A deceptive answer on a test question is an indicator that an investigator might want to venture down that road, so to speak. Cases don't rise or fall on polygraph results; it's part of the overall picture.
I guess if you had someone who's favorite color was red and the examiner got a non-deceptive answer when he asked if it was green then that may be a "false positive." But it might be a shade of red, if youg et my drift.
Proper preparation of questions and a thorough understanding of the case being investigated produces the best results.

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