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Allen,

When is the desegregation of Dudley going to begin? It is long overdue.

Allen,

When is the desegregation of Dudley going to begin? It is long overdue.

When Northwest, Fisher Park, Westerwood house prices come back to earth.

You'll have to ask the school board.

Wake County has taken a more principled stand on diversity and mandated these guidelines: The population of poor students should neither exceed 40 percent in any individual school or drop below 15 percent.
Those goals seem fair and realistic. And they appear to have produced good results in the classroom.

Allen,

I had the privilege of visiting Southwest's 7th grade rewards ceremony last week. You have to see the diversity of that school. It’s unbelievable.

How do you explain that? An already diverse school gets its community cut into pieces and then we have schools like Dudley and Northwest.

In the normal business world you go after the big low hanging fruit where it is possible to make a big difference.I am sure that if you had seen it you would of thought what the heck are these crazy people doing? It doesn’t make sense!

The question is WHEN ARE THEY GOING TO DO THE SAME FOR THE KERNOODLE'S, the NORTHWEST's and DUDLEY's of the county we live in?

If you really think about what I just said you might get a hint that it was really about something else in High Point!

Nary a word!

They should. But they won't. The political will isn't there and neither is the community will, I fear.

Allen, while this policy only exists in High Point it is discrimination.

End of story.

Allen,

If you are waiting for this school board to reverse desegregation at Dudley, I would suggest that you cease writing about it in your blog, it'll never happen. You regularly deplore the state of desegregation in county schools, but you really don't intend to do anything about it, other than talk it to death. If the will of the school board and the community doesn't exist to change things, then forget about it and go on to something else. As DiversityatSW said, there was sufficient political will in High Point to force diversification on a school that was already diverse, so what's the problem in Greensboro? Oh, I forgot...High Point is different than Greensboro. High Point's "at-large" representative can make whatever deals she chooses and force things on the "High Point Schools", whether the community wants it or not. the difference is tha tGreensboro would never allow those things to happen to the "Greesnboro Schools".

Isn't there something along the lines of a certain pride, a justifiable pride, in being a "historically black college"? I venture there is also a like-minded idea of Dudley as "historically black", and thus many parents who would be properly aghast at facing segregation from another school, may prefer things minority-majority at Dudley.

This isn't necessarily a contradiction, nor is it always to be disapproved of. Now, if Caucasian parents want to start declaring certain schools "historically white", they are not playing quite the same game, and they know it; which is why they don't.

Okay, Freddy. If you say there's no contradiction, we beleive you.

I said this isn't NECESSARILY a contradiction: the motivations for being proud of one's ethnicity and having said pride strongly exhibited and nourished at a minority-majority school are not the same as the rightful resentment felt for being excluded from overwhelmingly majority-majority-populated schools where more materials, better-trained staff and out-of-system funding for programs have given the majority (read: white) students many advantages denied the minority population. IF the motivations were the same (i.e., to all be "equal", or to express ethnic pride in BOTH places in the same ways), THEN this would NECESSARILY be a contradiction. It may still BE one, but not, at this point, in my opinion, is it NECESSARY that it IS one.

Sorry for the logic lesson.

Now, Ol' Skeeter, would you 'fess to wanting all- or almost-all- white schools for the same motivations as Dudley alums may enjoy having a locus of ethnic pride? That is, should we have a sort of "white-pride" school, singing songs that extol Caucasian joy and happiness? And commemorate the struggles of the suburban middle-class and its triumphs through capitalism?

James, I don't know what schools you are talking about, but my kids have never gone to any school that excluded ANYBODY. I'm also not following your reasoning that some people can have ethnic pride and some can't. And who adjudicates who rates ethnic pride and who doesn't? Don't tell me...could it be...ta-da, the wise Judge Jim?

If one clings to "neighborhood schools", one excludes by zip code. The bidding wars that have led to out-of-reach neighborhoods which had been basic middle-class create de facto odds as to who (ethnically) attends these schools. (See Warren and Tyagi's "Two-Income Trap" on how it cripples everyone, across ethnic lines, too.)

So, it is very convenient to say one's child's school doesn't exclude, while one has the cash or credit score (or the nefarious "help" of colluding lenders) to live in the specific school district one does.

Oh, one CAN have "white pride", that I don't deny. But it is hard to say what exactly would constitute its expression without coming off as terribly bigoted or plain silly. (Yippee! for Wonder Bread!)

I am not referring to pride in one's specific European (or Canadian...post-European) heritage. That, in fact, is often lost far too soon. I mean, more generally, being proud to "white". Tell me how having pride in such and celebrating, trumpeting and foisting that into school curricula would be as empowering and positive as the ways many do take pride in African-American heritage. I don't set myself up as "judge" here; I simply cannot think of an example that would ring clear.

Enlighten me, oh Skeeter-of-the-Highest-Point.

So, you're saying, Lord Jim, that if say I wanted to live in Beverly Hills Ca. or Scarsdale N.Y. or Palm Beach Fla. but I didn't have the money to afford a house there, I still have the inherent Jim-given right to demand deconstruction of any public educational facility within those towns to my liking and demand having their children exported against their will to where I live? (assuming I lived in a less exclusive outlaying area)

This is an intersting take. I bet parents would just be lining up. You should think of running for office.

Hardly, my materialist correspondent. You are welcome to your dream of a house and school among the gentry. No need to destroy the building (although I imagine 95% of parents in the areas you mention send their children to private school, anyway...the very wealthy usually do.)

But I would submit that children from the county of Guilford, where we actually live, or any city therein, should be allowed access and, if necessary, subsidized transport to any school their tax dollars pay partly for. Tell me, isn't that fair? Again, an awful lot of the more wealthy send their children to private school or, if they are merely upper middle class, tend to drive their children to and from school (I have seen those endless traffic lines snaking through Summerfield). Buses are often half-full.

If one de-couples zip code from school assignment, one could also lessen the ridiculous bidding wars that have put middle-class families in debt to their eyeballs. Students would have more choices for magnet programs and parents could select schools according to either proximity or facility/staff.

Potentially, some schools will find they can't attract enough interested parents, and others will have waiting lists and may need expansion. Or the programs that attract and retain more successful student outcomes will be replicated/implemented elsewhere, improving all schools.

The current arrangement reeks of "I got mine, you take what you can get." Do we want to be that selfish?

Lord Jim, your mentioning choice is interesting. What most of the dissatisfied people in guilford Co. are upset about is the proscription of their choice by politicians with unknown questionable agendas.

Your choice suggestion seems to work in forsythe co. Do you thing the Grimsley parents will go for it?

ps not sure how or why you presume I would want to live amoung the gentry. You may be projecting.

I see, Skeet old boy, you were only setting up a hypothetical with "say I wanted to live in Beverly Hills". I wouldn't dream of presuming. My own preference is for something closer to nature in the spirit of wabi-sabi.

Yes, choice is something we should extend to those who may want to attend Grimsley but are not in the right zip code. There are physical limits on how many can attend, so it should become "first-come, first serve" or some sort of lottery to get in. If the teachers are the best there, I would hope they'd welcome the chance to teach any and all races, classes and backgrounds.

Now, the real kicker would have to be enforcing attendance and participation by high schoolers in their own education; a tall order.

I agree the politicians may be up to some quid pro quo: their constituents are prodding them, "Keep my school/neighborhood the right 'mix'; keep out the 'riff-raff'; don't put the better teachers and programs in schools too far from my home", etc., in return for favors granted, directly or indirectly. The "Old Boy" network survives in new forms. It then gets passed on to the next generation, who say they are bias-free, but once each succeeding group of powers-that-be take over, on all sides of the political-social-economic and, yes, ethnic divide, the same kinds of back-scratching and jerry-rigging goes on.

Could it be we all want to keep up with the Joneses (or be them) so much we actually enjoy this borrow-and-spend, circle-the-wagons game?

Amen, Lord Jim! You have proven yourself worthy of your recently -bestowed title.

So, would High Pointers be willing to keep at a lottery system if Greensboro (and the vaunted green pastures of Summer's Fields) were on board?

Freddy,
the real question is this.
Will the parents of all Guilford Counties rising ninth graders be prepared to have no choice in the school they attend?

Anyway, I think the answer is no. Nobody would be on board with that.
I think the school board know that too.

Freddy,

Would NW parents be prepared to accept that their child be bussed to Andrews?
That seems a good analogy to a NHP child bussed to Central?

What about a Grimsley child to Dudley and so on...

What do you think?

My son was forced to take the 11 mile bus ride to Central this school year instead of the 1 mile walk to SW. He got straight A's all year.

Back at SW this year though with all his old friends. He is really looking forward to it...

Freddy, in a way your question is pretty silly. NOBODY in their right mind would want their kids educational future determined by a lottery. It's completely looney. I'm sure you would agree there are enough radom things in life that you never see coming. To voluntarily subject you kid to this is patent insanity, especailly if you lose the lottery, your kids goes to one of the worst highschools in the state, and if he wins; he doesn't.

What parents can't abide is the hypocrisy and selective application. Look at the schoolboard members who voted for the lottery. Does anybody think Marti Sykes would have lotteried her recently Grimsley-graduated son to Smith? Can anybody imagine Kris Cooke or Alan Duncan lotterizing their Page progeny to Dudley? This is absolutely absurd, but you have Marti Sykes saying "those SW kids need diversity". Complete insanity!

I was bussed 12 miles for high school for all four years (granted, our little town in the county had no high school). Could've chosen the same school as other friends, but the one I went to had some attractive programs that suited my interests. Boo-hoo, as I said good-bye to my eighth-grade pals (until after school).

Like your son, C, I did fine. (By the way, why was he "forced"? I thought the vast majority got into the school that was their first choice.) Made new friends. Learned about new ethnic cultures. Got into good colleges. Did well. Now teach at one.

T: "Will the parents of all Guilford Counties [sic] rising ninth graders be prepared to have no choice in the school they attend?"

I am not suggesting eliminating choice, T. The issue is what KIND of "choice" and how is it exercised. By "choice", do you mean "choice of school attached to a more expensive neighborhood, away from working-poor families?" That's the plight of "white flight". Maybe we should go the way of Omaha, and break into separate, racially distinct school districts, and neighborhoods can become even more homogenous, or should I say, "balkanized"?

Having EVERY school in the system open to ALL who apply on a first-come, first-serve basis, and/or lottery (needed to help balance diversity in case minorities get "shut out"), would INCREASE a whole array of choices for citizens, without automatically reducing school choice (as now) for the less-wealthy.

The benefits to those who may feel "I got mine already"? Instead of getting caught in the escalating bidding wars for expensive homes, and risking major financial disaster if income is lost by sheer circumstance, the middle-class might even see fit to move into less-pricey areas, and still be able to get their kids into a "good school".

And what, you may ask, makes for a "good school"?
Money, involvement of time & energy. In one word: Investment.

Some claim that ALL schools currently get the same funding from the county or state, and struggling schools often get more, but consider this: Schools in neighborhoods with higher-income, higher-property-value households get far more voluntary monetary aid than those in poorer schools. A few magnet schools (where students are often bussed several miles, unless, as I have noted, their parents drive them) have received stellar support from parents. Brooks has tremendous outside aid, often surpassing Grimsley (without a band, football or any sport program to hawk trinkets, tickets and concessions)!

Children from poorer households who attend a mixed economic-class school do better than those at schools with less money being pumped in from fundraising and less overall parental involvement. It's much harder to get involved if you are working multiple jobs to survive; and if parents had unhappy school careers, they also tend to stay away from the building, unless they find community support. Middle-class parents may leave a lot to be desired as materialist Überconsumers, but they may often set a good model for involvement.

Freddy,
my son was "forced" to go to Central by the High Point choice plan (of course).
We never got involved at Central (just too far) and parents who came the opposite way have are not involved with SW.
I will be involved next year though (back at our local school).

C-
Did your son miss the deadline for submitting his first and second choices of schools? I read the great majority of those who made the deadline were accomodated. Then, if they did miss it, a smallish perecntage were assigned their second choice. I had not heard any student was not assigned their first or second choice.

Pity 11 miles was too far to drive once in a while to get involved. My parents managed to make all the plays and concerts, my brother's and sisters' sports games, plus monthly PTA meetings. Is it the one son, by the way? Did no other local kids attend Central?

If Grimsley were 30-40% minority, and Dudley the inverse, this city would flourish like it never has.

Freddy,

60 children were sent to Central "not by their choice".
You heard wrong.

YOu are right about Dudley.

But.......As you know the school board chose to mess with an already diverse school.

Gone.

Where did you read almost everyone got their choice Freddy?
60 N.high Point children got refused their appeals and sent away from their local school. Several of those had to pass SW on the way to Central.
If you look at Central results for this year they have improved slightly but probably only by the same % of kids sent there.
Result.
The children that were not learning last year did not learn this year.
Meanwhile Grier will claim this as succees and continue with his plot to dilute the problem away.
Transfer a few more N.Highpointers there and they will be over 60%. The judge will be happy and so will the school board.
Meanwhile the % of children failing in our county is the same.
Thanks also to you and your kind that want to help them hide the failings away!

I read these things long ago in the N&R, but I have now also checked with the official counts:

The District put out a PDF (http://www.guilford.k12.nc.us/fridaynotes/articles/southwest_04_totals.pdf) outlining the numbers of those who registered by the deadline and the vast majority of them were given their first choice, a few their second choice of school.

Of those who did NOT meet the deadline to register, 71 went to SW, because it was current school or it was the "School Closest to current Attendance Zone School as Second Choice".

Other "Second Choice Assignments (Random from SWHS & AHS
Students Who Did Not Register by Deadline)" assignments moved 25 to and from Andrews. 25. Not 150. Tell me, where can I find a document outlining the 150 you quote? It is possible the District is lying, I suppose. In which case, I would like to know, very much. I do not seek to cover up anything.

My "kind" is the kind fed up with the out-of-sight house prices, suburban highways glutted with ozone, disgusting consumerism bankrupting the middle-class and the future of this country: no way to save for retirement, leading to outrageous unpaid hospital and health care bills crippling the whole economy in a few years.

Meanwhile, the children of true privilege are handed tax-reduced or even tax-free estates; and the poor are left to their own devices, languishing in third-rate classrooms.

"We must hang together, gentlemen; or we shall surely hang separately." - Ben Franklin

Then we could always continue to dismantle the public school system:http://www.opinionjournal.com/cc/?id=110008548&mod=RSS_Opinion_Journal&ojrss=frontpage