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"If the proposed (indoor) Swimming Center for this size of a community is not justified as a quality of life reason, then my belief is it not a wise investment to further our community's efforts to generate non taxpayer revenues from visitors coming to our City."

Am I reading this right? My interpretation is that Mr. Brown is saying that if we can't justify the swim center as a quality of life issue then we might as well abandon all efforts to attract visitors to our city. Is that what he's saying.

Also, Allen, will the swim center be open to the public at large or just for teams and meets?

Yes, Roch, that seems to me what he is saying.
And, yes, the swim center would ber open to the public when it is not being used for competitions, though I'm not sure of the guidelines.

Thanks for the info, Allen.

I was having a conversation with a supporter of all eleven bonds yesterday. One of the things that came up was the necessity, if the bonds are to pass, for the supporters to avoid hyperbole, a tactic that just makes the doubtful suspicious. Mr. Brown's comment is hyperbole and worse, it doesn't even illustrate a sound point. That kind of nonsense can be avoided.

Instead, supporters of the swim center should make sure, loud and clear, that people understand that the facility will not only be for teams, meets and out of town spectators, but that any of us will also have opportunities to use it. That is a huge selling point.

Everyone will have the opportunity to use the new swim center. It will be controlled and operated by the Coliseum. Uses for the facility are: High School PE, High School practice and swim meets, Competitive swimming, Masters swimming, lap swimming, Synchronized Swimming, Family swim, Party rentals, Diving, Water polo, Lifeguard training, Water safety instruction, Infant lessons, beginner lessons, Senior lessons, Watercise, Arthritic watercise, Waterobics, Pregnancy fitness, Scuba, snorkeling, kayaking and canoeing.

There you go, Ted! A positive message that drives home the broad appeal of a possible swim center.

Ted, it's good to see a vision for the swim center that touches so many corners of the community.
I do wonder, however, what the level of demand is for such actvities.
Are current pools in the city being fully used? (I hear Smith High School's isn't.)
Could you accommodate those interests for less money? For example, do family swims, swim parties and Watercise require competition-sized pools?
Also, would those services be offered for a fee or free of charge?

The swimming center will be operated by the City of Greensboro and the Coliseum. All policy judgments about cost and access will be their decision. The non-competition activities listed will be additional or supplemental benefits.
The swimming center will provide swimmers in Greensboro with a much needed swimming facility. During High School swim season we have waited for a Smith HS swim meet to end at 7:00 PM then shared the pool with two other groups until 9:00. This is very late for 8-12 year olds. Greensboro just does not have enough pool space to practice in or to hold swim meets. The city has grown by 60% since the last pools were built.
GSA must host ½ of our swim meets in Hillsborough. Other local swim teams are unable to have swim meets. If, as Matt Brown claims, the pool can operate at break-even plus bring in additional tax revenue to the city by hosting swim meets, then why shouldn’t Greensboro’s citizens have it? How many other city services can pass this strict cost/benefit analysis?

Allen, what is Matt Brown's track record on predicting Coliseum revenues and losses? My off-the-cuff sense is that it's not good. Ted, how can you claim in one post that the swim center will provide x, y, and z, and then in the next, that all decisions regarding use will be made (presumably in the future) by the city? Are we voting on a pig in a poke or is a usage plan available for consideration?

I'm not exactly sure, Brian, but I recall they've been hit-and-miss.
I think Matt is a supremely confident guy, and a very good coliseum manager. But I also think he can overestimate his abilities to make nearly any venture a success.

I am late to this thread to the point of no one may see this but me. I will offer my .02 to some of the inferences and Q's posed above. As a point of reference, I am a "swim dad" and our family swims with The GSA where Ted Oliver is president. Unfortunately we are county residents but I do own and operate a business in Greensboro.

The swim facility is obviously a quality of life issue. Facilities such as these do not typically create appreciable amounts of profit as an entity and often times run on a defecit. We as aquatic enthusiasts, swim parents, etc cannot dictate to the City or CVM the actual uses, fees, etc. We would all like to think that there would be numerous possible public uses for such a facility. However, none of us "know" what the City will offer or contract in the way of programming, etc.

Smith, Grimsley and Lindley are just too limited for use for competitive meets. Lindley is an outdoor facility usable for only a few months. S & G are small, 8 lane facilities with no warm up or warm down lanes, limited seating and locker facilities, etc.

It is competitive meets which attract the out of town visitors and their dollars. The other stuff; such as, lessons, water polo, kayaking, public swim, scuba, water aerobics, etc are the added quality of life benefits. To me the probable use of this facility for local, regional and state High School meets is also a major piece of the usage puzzle. I also envision a boom in the numbers of high school swimmers.

I think it safe to assume (ah ah no adages please) that the new facility would be available for public swim, etc. How often, when, for how much $$? Who knows. At the very least numerous hours would be opened up at Lindley, Smith and Grimsley for inexpensive parties, public swim, etc.

It must be noted that we are not talking about just an indoor recreational swimming pool. We are debating an indoor facility with multiple lanes, diving well, warm up and warm down lane areas, 1500+ seats, locker room facilities, convertible for use as 25 yards or 50 meters with floating, movable platform bulkheads, etc. An Olympic "style" facility. Can and will it be used as a public, recreational style swimming pool ... yes! I just want to make sure we are all on the same page as to what we are discussing. With placement at the CVM area we also cut down on overall construction and land costs dealing mostly with parking lots, infrastructure, etc.

Some of you are thinking on too narrow a scale. The demand for such a facility comes from all over North Carolina, the southeast and the east coast not just Greensboro or Guilford County. Quality facilities are few and far between and semi-local to regional travel is commonplace. Swimming is a 10-11 month sport with meets from October to August. Few municipalities have the density, location and tax base needed to own and operate such a facility. Simply put, we do! This is an opportunity we should not pass up.
Vote!

Two websites of note: www.greensboroswimmingcenter.com
www.gsobonds.com