News-Record.com

You are wrong Allen. In High Point they school board cares but ONLY in High Point.
We now have a problem with Washington, Wiley and Vandalia Elementary schools. Nobody wants to go there!

I notice on the map that the district of Mrs Marti Sykes is very close to both Washington and Wiley Elementary. Very, very close infact its just a couple of miles. I believe that Chris Cooke's district is also very close. Allen, dont you think it strange that the school board can make Parkview children travel a lot further distances and where there are other schools in need this kind of opportunity is ignored?
I mean, come on. They are so close to diversity!
What up here? Both of these "honorable" ladies voted for diversity in High Point. What about their own doorstep?

Allen,

Did you mean to post that twice just to see if anyone is listening?

It seems that when the name "High Point" is thrown into that sentence that the cry for diversity is heard LOUD AND CLEAR. But for some reason, it seems that Greensboro is deaf to such cries.

In fact, these schools seem to fall the LOUDEST on deaf ears: Dudley, Smith, Northwest, Page.

Also, if diverse schools are such a "fix-all" why are the most diverse schools still finding a huge gap in achievement between the races? Are the white children not doing a good enough job teaching the blacks?

What more can be done? Until we drag the PARENTS of these poor achievers TO SCHOOL WITH THEIR CHILDREN, I don't see how you can force learning on someone that doesn't want it.

You also CANNOT force diversity. Students will move, lie, go private, etc. to get to the school that they want to go to.

For a prime example, ask the most famous High Point student: Fantasia. She said she didn't WANT to learn.

So, not YOU, not Grier, not the Rev. Barber, not even Bill Cosby can make children WANT to do something that they simply just don't want to do.

SO STOP BLAMING IT ON THE WHITE KIDS!!!!!!!!!! STOP KIDNAPPING THEM AND STOP BUSING THEM!! They are NOT the answer to the woes of the African American!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Allen,

What do you propose? Time and time again posters on this blog have stated that the distance among Grimsley, Page, and Dudley is much, much less than the distances between the High Point schools. Dudley is the most segregated school in Guilford County. Smith is second.

Isn't it time to redistrict some of the Irving Park kids to Dudley?

Allen, do you believe that minority-dominated schools are at the bottom because the schools themselves (facilities, teachers) are worse? That is, if you switched the student bodies of Grimsley and Dudley, what do you think would happen?

Bussing poor children into other schools will not work for the following reasons.

Their parents dont care so they dont full stop. What happens then is they begin to disrupt the children of the parents that DO care. The result is that the parents that do care pull their children out of these schools.

Full circle Allen.

You cannot expect schools to solve societies problems.

Allen, this is not a dream. This is happenning at Southwest middle TODAY. In ten days of the new school year my son has been bullied, had his classes disrupted and he has been ridiculed by the some buused in children from South High Point.
His elder sister has only had her classes disrupted. There are many stories like this at Southwest.

I am a parent that cares. My only option is to move my children out of this school system.

Full circle Allen!

My premise has never been: "White kids good and smart, black kids disruptive and dumb."

Drone, that seems to be your assumption. and it is mean-spirited and uninformed.

The problem is, the entire community seems to have lost its will to do the right thing in school diversity -- to recreate a separate and unequal education system.

That's wrong and short-sighted.

Brian:
As I've posted on this issue before, musical chairs with students alone won't solve a thing.
But in conjunction with other measures, such as the recruitment of better teachers for all schools and the placement of the very best teachers where they are most needed, will help.
So will increased parental involvement.
Beyond all that, publicly sanctioned and taxpayer-funded segregation are just plain wrong.

Diversity Is Not the Cure-All:
Sorry for the repeated type. I've fixed that now.
But read the last words you typed, aloud.
That's the kind of atttitude that is bred by segregation and simply not knowing any better.
I hope and pray you're not teaching such small-mindedness to your own children.

Drone:
On your point that we can't expect our schools to solve all of society's problems, agreed.
But they're the logical place to start.
The Guilford County business community is so invested in public schools because education is so critical to the community's well-being, from economic recruitment to work-force development to crime and public safety.
Where else is a more appropriate place to also teach them how to relate and get along in an increasingly diverse society?
Where else will that happen?
Also, picture our community without the court-mandated desegregation that occurred more than 30 years ago here.
Picture our colleges and universities as segregated as they once were.
Would we be better off in race relations if we'd let the status quo remain?
For all the imperfections of deesgegation at that time, I would argue an emphatic no.

My premise has never been: "White kids good and smart, black kids disruptive and dumb."

Who said these are all black kids Allen?

Allen:

Your position of diversity as a moral imperative has always been clear. Two points:

(1) the best teachers want to teach the best students and always will. That's what makes teaching pleasurable. Unless you desegregate everything--i.e., every single class--the best teachers will find their way to the best students, not to "where they're needed most." That's why, I think, the 10K bonuses are opposed by the teachers.

(2) You seem to think of the lack of diversity as anamolous. But I think (because of the culture of the education industry, especially at the administrative level) there's more diversity than there would be through strictly democratic means. I'm not sure how strongly black parents want their kids to attend well integrated schools (and suspect that class difference would influence this a lot), but I can assure you with that you have little support from white liberals, at least those with children. Most of my friends are white liberals--some of them grotesquely so--and the one place you can count on them to go off the liberal reservation is on school integration. Remember Al Gore and the DC school system?

Having tutored a lot of lower-income black students (and a few whites one as well; still, a very strong racial correlation) at my daughter's former school (she now attends a magnet program at a mostly black school), it became perfectly clear that those students would affect how the class operated. You can't teach reading if half the class doesn't know their ABCs (this was my tutoring specialty). You can't teach adding if half the class doesn't know how to count to 20. Even grotesquely liberal white parents don't care much about the abstract morals of diversity when their child's education is being affected negatively. I suspect you'll say that this isn't the case, but in reality, I think it is.

Allen, what do you hope to achieve with diversity, and how does diversity achieve that goal? After all this time, you have still never answered this question. How does it improve grades and/or social status or whatever you are trying to accomplish?

I stated before that I could be convinced if someone could produce evidence. Otherwise, I still remain a strong believer in neighborhood schools regardless of whether they are "diverse" or not.

Good comments Brian.

Alen made two mistakes. He automatically thought I was saying these kids were black and also thought that I was calling them dumb.

I was clear in saying that they are disruptive bullies. My chidren are Latino minorities and not plain white.

This reactionary and selfish attitude stops everyone progressing in this world we live in.

Sam, the lessons of diversity are many, and I won't recount all of them here since I have listed them innumerable times on other posts.
I will, however, note the many community problems that have strong racial overtones:
1. The police department's ongoing turmoil.
2. The county commissioners' latest imbroglio.
3. Crime and public safety concerns.
4. All kinds of public education issues.

I would hope that we could address them with more insight and understanding if we began by understanding one another better.
If we wait until we're adults, with fully formed attitudes and prejudices, and with a lack of exposure to other races and cultures, it may be too late.

Drone, I stand corrected. You directed your comments to poor kids in general not just the black ones.
But I think they're still cold-spirited and misinformed.
You wrote:

"Bussing poor children into other schools will not work for the following reasons.

"Their parents dont care so they dont full stop. What happens then is they begin to disrupt the children of the parents that DO care. The result is that the parents that do care pull their children out of these schools.

"Full circle Allen."

Allen,

Don't you think it would be good to redistrict Irving Park to Dudley?

The distance from Irving Park to Dudley is quite short and would do a lot of good toward rectifying the lack of diversity at Dudley and within that neighborhood.

Thankyou Allen. I am glad you put the Skip&Deena side of your personality back in the closet.

I will tell my son and daughter that then.

"You are misinformed its not really happening. Your classes are not being disrupted. You are not being bullied. All those kids in-school suspensions are not real".

Allen, all I want is for my children to go to school in a peaceful learning enviroment.

I wish the parents of these disruptive children did too.

Allen, why don't you put this all to rest FOREVER. You simply write an editorial specifically naming Greensboro boardmembers Marti Sykes, Kris Cooke, Alan Duncan and Deena Hayes for mandating "de-segregation" of highschools in High Point (although one may question how you can de-segregate a school that is 40% minority) but NOT for Greensboro. You publically ask them, even dare them, to give you any cogent explanation whatsoever, for why they would do this for somebody elses's town and NOT their own. Really give it to them. Say you want an explanation and you want it now.

Even despite the fact that Grier's #1 goal, according to his own horse's mouth proclamation, is diversity, the problem of course is you won't. Why? Because Action Greesnboro doesn't want it, Deena doesn't want it, nor do any other of the above-named wishy-washy hypocrites, and the word on the street is: although you talk big and raise this subject over and over, when it comes time to talk big, you don't have the rocks.

Sounds as if you're calling me out on this one, John. I won't recap, as I've done many times before, the editorials and columns e've published on this issue in the past.
You should be more than familiar with them by now.
We won't be letting this drop. Let's see what develops.

What proof is there for the following statement?

"Segregation is a barrier to a sound basic education."

The real reason has to be.

"poverty is a barrier to a sound basic education."

If we fill Smith and Dudley with great teachers who will make those kids do their homework?
The other alternative is spread the kids around.
Lets fast forward.
Do they do their homework? Do they pay attention in class? Allen do you know in all of Grier's schools smart kids are seperated from not so smart?
Be it CP vs honors,AP,IB (High School).
Be it AL vs Non AL (Elem and Middle).

Continue to fast forward with this method. Dudley and Smith improve. NW and Grimsley and SW decrease slightly. Are these children with non caring parents learning?

With the current situation we can clearly demand for Grier to get these kids up to NW school level. If we dilute them away you will be happy Allen but I say this will not solve the problem.

What we need is real change. We need to stop Grier from implementing fly by night programs. We need to school board to tell Grier to go out and bench mark the top ten change programs from around the States, maybe other parts of the world. He must present the results, and the baord must pick a direction.

The NAACP can help by initiating programs in these poor neighborhoods to change this current mentality. The Skip ALstons of this world can also try to help too.

I have to ask this question. Why have we let Grier and the school board go this many years without giving those kids an Education or at least having a decent go at it. Its only after Judge Manning is he really trying.

Allen, if you are a manager of a department in the real world the first things you go after are the things that are not working. All Grier has done is improve the situation for those that dont really need it.

Our only real hope is eventual immerison as future generations interbreed, until this stupid skin-pigmentation issue falls away.

But since the vast majority will by then be poverty-stricken, while the upper 3% controls all wealth, I am sure some other easily-spied physical indiactor will be promulagted as reason for bias.

A Freudian slip? Note the difference in the two passages:

Barber pointed out that nearly all of the state's 44 lowest-performing high schools have predominantly minority enrollments and other problems such as fewer fully licensed teachers, fewer nationally certified teachers, fewer teachers with graduate degrees and higher rates of teacher turnover.

Barber noted that nearly all of the state's 44 lowest-performing high schools have predominantly minority enrollments and cope with numerous educational disadvantages, including fewer fully licensed teachers, fewer teachers with graduate degrees or national certification, and higher rates of teacher turnover.

In the first, "predominantly minority enrollments" are among "other problems." In the second, such enrollments are detached from the such problems (now called "disadvantages"). The causal link between low performance and high minority enrollments is (arguably) intact in version one, abolished in version two. I'd wager the second version is the revised version, and that it's revised specifically because of what I've noted here.

Allen, is your argument (a) that the benefits of high integration (getting along, getting to know each other) outweigh the costs (to high performing groups by the presence of low performing ones), or (b) that there are no costs, that everyone learns better in a highly integrated environment?

My children are definitely not learning better with these disruptive children in their classes.

According to Allen this is not happenning. I am misinformed. My children lie to me I suppose. I must remember to not trust my own children.

Oh, my neighbors child too and my colleague at works child.

We are all so misinformed. Allen does even step foot in a school like this but he knows it all.

In the long term, yes. I've still seen little evidence that it's the high-performing student who is at risk.
We are in danger of creating a caste system in our schools that will cost us in jobs, industry, crime, tax money and quality of life for years and years to come.

Allen, I checked my file system and I found one solitary example where you, perhaps using the broadest defintion, "hinted" that enough has not been done diversity wise and "more work needs to done". You didn't name names or ask any tough questions or wonder out loud how they could seemingly skip their own town. (in other words you followed Action Greensboro mandates-on all matters relating to GCS and the board.)

Allen, you know darn well you're barking at the moon. Action Greensboro is NEVER going to countenence little Spencer or Julienne having orange juice on the dock of their Lake Jeanette home while mommy sips Mimosas, piling out the front door and hopping a bus to Dudley. It ain't EVER EVER EVER going to happen. But these very same Actioneers will say Terry's great and Dot just wants "fairness for all" while they force this down somebody else's throat in another town.

Until you can admit the above, we're all going to be spinning our wheels here.

John, on this blog, do a search on the keyword "resegregation" and please get back with me. Thanks.

Allen,

You end your post with the question

Is anyone listening?

Shouldn't that be

Kris, Dot, Marti, Deena, Walter, Susan -

ARE YOU LISTENING??? WHAT ABOUT DUDLEY?????

Allen, I stand by my critisism above. I just looked at the "archives" and in no instance do I sense any real sense of dis-satisfaction with the schoolboard on your part but merely a discomforture with the way things are and the token benign critical comment of "nary a word"

In fact, scanning the archives really drove home the point that we are having the exact same discussion we were having months ago. Namely: you post on resegregation, we counterpost: "Allen, why don't you do something about it". You do nothing, and then post on the same subject again in a couple months, we reply in kind and it goes on and on! Totally outrageous.

And it goes on and on because the ruling elites in Greensboro, your patrons, don't want any part of racial busing. The ruling elites in High Point-feeling their school under demographic threat, do. People in north High Point are caught, helpless and without board representation, between these two pincers.

If your truly beleived in busing for "de-re-segregation" with any kind of passion and bordmembers elected to do this in another town but not in your town, would you not be furious, absolutely furious, that they were crass enough to deny you this? You'd be thrashing them on the editorial page, instead "nary a word"

Allen,

Read the last sentence LOUD AND CLEAR. What's wrong? What's your point? You can't handle the truth? That's what's going on. It wasn't my idea to start kidnapping kids and you know it. That's a lot of pressure to put on kids of ANY color. To tell them to go over and fix a whole school is a big burden.

You disturb me Allen. I, like many other commenters here, have had enough of your yammering on. Do you have Attention Deficeit Disorder and you know this tired ol' topic gets comments?

John, I wish more people had your sense of outrage. But part of what you seem to be missing is the vast indifference out there.
The school board isn't saying a whole lot about the issue because the community isn't making much noise about it.
The community should be accountable on school diversity as well.

As long as the Dudley community is happy with the make-up of their school, the school's make-up will remain as it is.

Period.

Not really. I am looking for solutions, not a cyber-brawl. Doe the term "kidnap" really help us have a thoughtful discussion about this problem?
So, ideally, what would you like to see, John?

And the Northwest community, among others.

Allen, I was talking about where's your sense of outrage? Not mine. Duh....Everybody that has normal mental functioning is indifferent to forced racial busing because...IT'S INSANE, which is why it collected six votes from our schoolboard.

Allen, you raged above about the "caste system" that is evolving in reguards to education. High Point has the highest per-capita, and perhaps even the highest number in absolute terms, of private school seats in the state. They are booming. Absolute gangbusters. TWELVE YEARS OF KERNS MENDENHALL--GANGBUSTERS

I would wager that Kearns and Mendenhall's latest High Point scam has moved another 150 kids into private schools easy. It has removed many others to home or other counties even. An absolute exact paradoxical effect of what the misguided people on the schoolboard thought would happen (but were told over and over again would happen).

This is the true "Caste Sytem". You're indicting something whose existence you helped foster.

Lesson: You can never grab people by the back of the neck and force them to accept something that they feel compromises their children, no matter their color or socio-econmic status.

I understand how you feel as a parent, but does this have to be an either/or proposition?
Is it possible to do what's best for all of our kids?
Isn't it possible to build a diverse and high-quality school system?
I think it is if think creatively, pool resources and look beyond our own personal worlds.

Allen,

You already know the answers to your questions. The entire county must be treated exactly the same. You cannot allow one school in Greensboro to remain >99% of a particular race and other Greensboro schools as neighborhood schools and then bus the heck out of children in High Point.

Treat us all the same - it's either neighborhood schools for all or diversity for all.

How is it that Dudley can maintain such power as the community determining the make-up of the school's population???

There is no other school in this county that comes close to those statistics, but no one, not one single board member has ever brought that up for discussion?

Why?

On that, you and I agree, as we did months ago. But let's advance the discussion. Let's figure out how to make it happen and how to get community buy-in. There's got to be a model for doing this somewhere.

Allen: "I understand how you feel as a parent, but does this have to be an either/or proposition?
Is it possible to do what's best for all of our kids?"

Well, it's not probable. The reason is that people don't have "all of our kids." Instead, they have their own kids and they care about them a lot more than they care about "all of our kids." You consistently miss this point.

When you say that you don't have evidence from long term studies showing that high performing kids suffer from having low performing ones in the school or classroom, you're asking me (and many other parents) to privilege your lack of evidence over what I've seen with my own eyes: a class where teaching reading can't happen because half the class doesn't know the alphabet. With NCLB, teaching naturally gravitates to the lowest common denominator.

I agree with you that diversity is desirable, and I'm delighted that my kids attend classes that are academically challenging, diverse, and disciplined. But if my kid's class becomes a disciplinary nightmare or is taught at a low level to accomodate slow learners, we're gone. "All of our kids" doesn't mean much to me relative to my kids.

Allen,

I'll take the bait. You say "Let's figure out how to make it happen and get community buy-in...There's got to be a model for doing this somewhere."

Yes, No, Yes.

How to make it happen? Simply have Dot make a motion and Marti, Susan, and Kris can fight over who seconds the motion to bus the kids from Irving Park and Lake Jeanette to Dudley. Likewise many of the Dudley students would be moved to Grimsley and Page.

Get community buy-in? Since when has the School Board EVER gotten community buy-in??? No need to start now.

Model? See High Point reassignment plan.

No, I mean a model that would work for the whole system, not a scheme to exact revenge on Greensboro.

Quest, you must be God.

brian444, good luck. Guilford county teaches to the lowest in the classroom.
Do your kids a favor and go unannounced to their classroom and spend the day. It's the only way to know what's really going on.

Take a barf bag.

OHMIGOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!OHMIGOD!!!!!!!!!!

So redistricting in High Point is just that. But any redistricting in Greensboro is "REVENGE"????

Explain that to the kids in High Point please, Allen!

Allen,

Well, the truth is finally revealed - revenge you say?

My dictionary defines revenge in the following manner:

"to exact punishment for a wrong on behalf of, especially in a resentful or vindictive spirit; punishment, or injury inflicted in return for one received"

Yes - you're absolutely right - we agree.

High Point received a punishment from the board.

I'm glad that you have finally admitted that. Now, please share this in an editorial for the print copy of your paper.

Allen,

And, in the editorial, please let the board know that High Pointers are a forgiving bunch. Were the board to overrule the redistricting and return to the Greensboro-way-of-doing-things (neighborhood schools), we promise to forgive them of their mean-spirited decision.

Allen; REVENGE???????

Now I get it. Bussing won't happen in Greensboro because those bloody North High Point selfish racist B......ds want revenge!!!!!

Allen, for gods sake stop posting this BS because you dont really mean it. Stop patronising us and forget it.

Forget diversity Allen.

FORGET IT!!!!!!

REVENGE, Allen?

You truly make me sick. I can see why people with your level of intelligence need Skippy to fight your battles.

I will NEVER, EVER, patronize another black owned business in Guilford County because of the intolerable racism group's actions. Would you call that equal treatment or revenge?

We see the same problems here in Rockingham County. White flight from Reidsville High School to Rockingham County High School.

Despite the fact that Reidsville High is less than a mile from the Penrose Country Club and the school is surrounded by $300,000 brick homes, people look at it as a poor school.

I think the bottom line is hard working people of all colors and classes who care about their kids want two things at least:

To send their kids to a school near home

To send their kids to a school were their potential for future success will be sown.

And in the end it all goes back to the home and the commitment of the parent to the child. No amount of government planning or permeable attendance lines can overcome the problems created in loco parentis.

911, I'm there every week, and I'll stand by my judgment. But that judgment is why we pulled our daughter out of one school and put her into the magnet program she's currently in. As a kindergartner, she reported that school was "too boring. . . all we do is easy stuff."

Allen, on long-term consequences: you're quite likely right that advantaged kids will do ok in the long run regardless, but (a) parents don't want what's ok for their kids, they want what's best for them, and (b) what about the near term? I've heard literally dozens of versions of Drone's story above--disruptive, low-income kids make school miserable for "our kids." At some point, I believe those stories--that is, I don't believe they're conconcted as racist, classist fantasies. In any event, if my daughter tells me those stories, I'll believe her and probably send her to a private school. A practical suggestion: if you want middle-class parents to sign on to your diversity scheme, you can't write editorials criticizing the "racial pattern" of school suspensions. Under a literal zero-tolerance program that insists--totally irrespective of racial considerations--on classroom discipline of a kind your and my generation experienced as a norm, you'll find more buyers for diversity. That will mean taking heat from the black community if black students are punished disproportionately.

Another long-term point: you suggest that current racial division in our society necessitates more integration. But your problem is also interpretable as proof that your solution won't work: we've had integrated schools since the 70s and there's still racial division. You're offering, I suggest, a classically liberal non-falsifiable hypothesis: namely, that proximity means getting along. There's lots of data--the two-reunion syndrome, racial divisions at well-integrated schools, etc.--suggesting that's not the case.

I appreciate your thoughtful responses, Brian.
You make some good points. But my experience with integrated schools was different.
As you probably know, I was in the first fully integrated high school class in Greensboro in 1971 and saw how integration slowly, but surely built some important bridges in those days.
I wish the community had stayed committed to desegregation; it didn't.
But I am convinced we're better off for what we did than if we hadn't come together, if only briefly.
By the way, my Dudley Class of '73 reunions have become increasingly integrated affairs over the years and at the last one, we actually had panel discussions on what being in that class meant to black and white students.
As it turns out, it meant a lot.

Allen,

here's some news for you. This is now 1971.

Yesterday my son got hit on the side of the face with a small paper via rubber band sling.
It hurt and he cried.

Of course you will tell me that it didnt really happen. I am misinformed.

Allen, wake up its 2006 and you dont have my vote for diversity I want my old safe school back.

Oops.

I meant "This is not 1971".

Allen,

Let's get back to your "revenge" comments. Was that a Freudian slip?

Eleanor Roosevelt once said, "It is not fair to ask of others what you ar not willing to do yourself."

I think that's the basis of the High Point residents' arguments.

It's only revenge if the "model" was a bad one.

Allen, no parent anywhere was ever "commited" to desegregation. People tolerated busing in the past because it was mandated by the courts and carried out NATIONALLY. (Note: NOT a selectively applied lurid backroom deal executed by some hack politician selectivly exploiting a group of people who had no schoolboard representation who this hack thought she could get away with exploiting.)

All any parent, of any color, anywhere, wants is a safe, quality school close to their home. People don't say when their kids leave the house in the morning; "Have a good day at school, junior! Go forth to fight segregation, and do it well". Not a single parent, no matter their color would say or imply such a thing unless they were a mush-headed utopian nutter with some huge self-esteem issues.

Brian444,

Seriously, I hope the magnet works well for you. You are in exactly the same situation that we were in. Kindergarten went very well becuase the teacher took the time to offer our child work that was not just coloring. But we were not so fortunate in 1st grade and then there was the mass exodus of teacher assistants due to the superintendent.

I won't blame the teacher, but it was very, very sad to see our child sit there counting pictures and coloring when he wanted to be reading and multiplying.

Also please be aware that the "Advanced Learner" program is now GONE until the 4th grade. It used to be offered in the 3rd. Now, to include a more diverse group of kids--Allen will love this--it has all changed.

These are just a few of the reasons our child is now in private. I regret not doing it sooner. He's flourising and the spark is back. It's sad to see that little spark put out so early.

Thank God there are options. Seriously, get on a waiting list NOW. It doesn't hurt to be on one because I can assure you, the time will come; if it isn't already here. Sitting idle in Kindergarten is no way to begin a long course of academia. School should be fun and challenging. If you don't see the spark Brian444, get outta here.

Numbersgame,

Great quote. I have another. As Mother Goose always said, "What's good for the Goose is good for the Gander." Don't you agree Allen?

Although maybe I misheard that as a child. Maybe Mother Goose said, "What's good for the Goose is good for the Gander--unless you live in High Point."

I'll have to go dig up my nursery rhymes and double check that.

No, I'm not saying the High Point model was a bad one. But it certainly lacked community buy-in, a major problem that hindered its success from Day One.
As for my "revenge" reference, it was used to express my concern that your support for diversity in other schools may be fueled more by a desire to spread what you perceive as the misery High Point encountered than to do what's right for the community.
I hope I'm wrong.

Alan, you are right about that.

Driving across town eleven miles each way to Central twice a day instead of walking 800 yards was misery.

Its not much fun phoning up a school and asking for your child not to be bullied either.

IT IS MISERY!!!!

Don't forget the Real Problem Folks,

Resegregation,,, Structurally Unsafe Schools,,,Pathetic Test Scores,,,,,Unhappy Teachers,,,,Millions behind on School Maintenance,,,Back Scratching the Minority Contractors,,,,Misappropriation of Funds,,,Lost Bond Money,,,Hiring a Statistical Magician to Fudge the Numbers,,,,Hiring Inexperienced Principles to lead Troubled Schools,,,SODEXHO,,,,,Nova University Doctorates,,,,HP Choice Plan,,,TRAILERS,TRAILERS, and more TRAILERS,,,Judge Manning,,,Pandering to OUT OF CONTROL STUDENTS,,,Trying to Bailout to CHARLOTTE,only to be beaten out for the job by a younger, better looking candidate,,,,,Racial Healing Seminars,,,,Italian Montessorri Furniture Scandal,,,,

these are but a few of the "FIRES" that Dr. Grier has lit while in charge of GCS,,,

Under his Reign,,,,Our schools have plummeted downward,,,,,

We must "FIRE" Grier now ,in order to begin the Long Road to Recovery for GCS.

You know, Allen, I think the people who are so mad at you here may be the same folks who got sued by the Rhino this week....

JS,

Mad? No. And I will forgive your reference to the lawsuit - your statement was malevolent.

When High Pointers wish for the redistricting plan in effect in their city to be applied to Greensboro, why does that cause folks like you to call them inappropriate names?

Allen and The School Board should take a serious look and reflect upon the Golden Rule.

High Pointers are only asking that the rules be applied equally to all students in the county. There should not be 2 sets of conflicting student assignment plans in this county.

...the Rancho Mirage trip...

Allen, you're "not saying the HP model was a bad one'? You have got to be kidding. As a parent and a human being, how can you possibly advocate removing people's kids against their will from their traditional, proximate, well-performing school to a distant, non-performing school by using a random lottery process? (Assuming of course you're not a big fan of the S.S. Officer in the movie Sophie's Choice who decides which of Sophie's kids goes to the work camp and which goes to the gas.)

You can't see, along with other people who judged all this from a distance, like Doug Clark and probably members of the board who voted in favor, there is a universe of difference between agreeing with the abstract principle of socio-economic balance in schools and having this happen to YOUR child. A universe of difference.

The lottery was scrapped, the subsequent re-districting was punitive (somebody was going to pay) or out of "revenge" like you mentioned above. So here we are . Another 100 children, essentially middle class children, have left the public schools in High Point most likely never to return and the private schools are loving it.

I just realized that I should be thanking you for your above post where you said that the lottery plan lacked "community" buy-in. I don't remember seeing you mention this in print.

Allen, where were you when we needed you? Where were you when Kearns and Mendenhall came to an auditorium full of 800 parents and children who said the lottery was wrong, they wouldn't support it, and Kearns and Mendenhall essentially told them 'too bad". If just one editor, or just one community leader in Guilford Co. would have stood up from then and said. "ladies, I don't think you have community buy-in" do you have any idea how much pain, ill feeling, waste and disruption of people's lives for no reason, you could have prevented? It's probably best to not even go there.

But...thanks, anyway.

Allan, is like everyone else on this point. They can only see it from one side. When it comes down to the individual level for us in North High Point it it you and your child.

Its a lot of pain. You feel helpless. You live in America, a democratic society, the land of freedom and choice but all of a sudden you have no choice.

Powerless, you feel like crying, you have feelings of rage and disgust.

So failing to put themselves in our postion its easier to ignore North High Pointers and if they question too much its easy to call them racists,bigots,selfish etc.

What a cop out.

Fair enough. You've raised some vaild concerns.
Now let's move on.
Where to from here? Can't diversity and high quality co-exist? Can't diversity even enhance quality of instruction?
For starters, can we at last agree that all poor kids aren't thugs and all rich kids aren't angels?
And can we agree that segregated schools (racially and economically) aren't the most desirable environments for our children? And that they don't reflect the real world?

Allen,

I'm glad you've acknowledged that good points have been made. Can we move on? Yes - that's precisely what many people have already done - moved outside of the High Point city limits or enrolled their children in private school.

And - can't we agree that segregated schools aren't the best? Yes - last year, before redistricting, Southwest Middle School and Southwest High School were roughly 1/2 non-white and 1/2 white - very diverse.

Of course, we could contrast that to Dudley - let's see 99% non-white and 60% Free and Reduced Lunch. Then there's Smith at 93% non-White and roughly 70% free and reduced lunch.

It's time to diversify Smith and Dudley.

Quest has it right, Allen. That's what we've been saying all along. It was almost, from what we can tell, what Allen Johnson would have considered an ideal school. It was plundered by somebody who saw something they wanted, there was nobody to stop them, and they did it. End of story.

"For starters, can we at last agree that all poor kids aren't thugs and all rich kids aren't angels"?

Allen, I agree with that. Hwever, we need to deal with the parents who dont care about how their children function at school.

A big proportion of the problem are poor parents. What can we do to motivate their children to learn? The school board prefers to dilute them away and hide them by bussing.

I think we need change in how these kids are stimulated and taught. That is where Terry Grier has come in. Until very recently Terry has concentrated on the bright kids and improving the system for them (more AP, Early college etc). We have let him go too long not educating children at Smith etc. He must consolidate his current activities and do more.

Did you know that an independent auditor looked at Andrews and Central last year and recommended a return to the traditional schedule. Its not rocket science; In a traditional schedule they get 1/3 more teaching time. The school board promptly changed back Western and Page.

WESTERN AND PAGE DIDN'T NEED IT!

Allen, get your reporters to look and investigate into the real discrimination our school board practices everyday.

The North High Point attrocity is only one of them.