News-Record.com

Allen,

I believe there is already irreparable damage done to High Point. Hundreds of children from North High Point no longer attend public schools in High Point. Probably most have either moved or gone to private schools. Some are being homeschooled.

The leaders in High Point (both city council and school board) are very much aware of this.

They don't care.

Allen,

I just read your rediculous editorial today about Terry Grier's contract extension. What planet do you people live on? Does anyone there remember all of the problems that have been experienced in the district in 2006? Does everyone have total amnesia? Yes, the board did conceive this in the darkness of another secret meeting. They have raised this practice to an art form. This was Susan Mendenhall's parting stick in the eye for students and parents of the district. She was the one that made the motion and was Terry Grier's Number 1 Cheerleader. Thank you, Susan Mendenhall for all you do.

You justify giving Grier a contract extrension because he deserves it. Tell me how you can document the statement that "Student achievement is up .." My view is just the opposite. And, how are these five goals a new set of goals? It appears to me that they are basically warmed-over goals from the past or goals that he should have been achieving which are inherent in his job. Of course, Walter Childs managed to find his voice long enough to insult every teacher in teh distrcit by saying that they don't work hard or smart. Really?

Allen, please have the News-Record stop shilling for Grier. It's unsightly.

I agree, Stormy. Whether or not Grier deserves an extension really is irrelevant: it's the way this deal was handled that stinks.

The board waited until late at night to have a closed-door meeting to award Grier a raise. They waited until the public and press had turned away to spring this surprise, knowing it would be roundly criticized.

It's also no coincidence that the meeting took place before two new board members took office. True, they couldn't have defeated such a vote, but perhaps they could have persuaded the rest of the board to forgo such a raise. In any case, they deserved to have the chance to weigh in and, more importantly, the public deserved to have a voice in this.

Alan Duncan's claim that, "Would critics have preferred, he asked, that the board delay urgent discussions about the future of the school, which was destroyed by fire on Nov. 1?" is completely dishonest. The board didn't have to vote on this extension Thursday at all - in fact, they didn't have to give Grier an extension. After all, he already was under contract until 2009. It's not like the district would've been without a superintendent had the board not acted Thursday.

Why the rush to give him an extra year, if it wasn't politically motivated? It strikes me as a both blantant cronyism and a deliberate swipe at board critics.

I thought newspapers were supposed to be advocates for open government, Allen. The Grier deal was anything but - it was backroom politics at its worst. Even if you support Grier, surely you see that.

It seems to me that the FIRE at Eastern Guilford has become very Profitable for Dr. Grier..

Let's see,,,,

A new, State of the Arts High School paid for by insurance,,,,

Tons of Cash Donations( Can you say "Chop House"),,,to be used at the pleasure of the good Doctor,,,

Tons of Corporate Donations,,,To be used at the pleasure of the good Doctor,,,

The perception of the public that Dr. Grier was some sort of a White Knight Hero following the fire,,,

it also diverted attention from the Failing AYP scores and Piss Poor Job performance that has been the Norm for Dr. Grier,,,,

The Building burned so badly that it probably will be very difficult to find the Evidence of Arson,,,

and to top it all off,,,Our IGNORANT School Board decides to give Grier a Contract Extension,,,

You Know,,,the more I think about it,,,,the more it seems that this FIRE quite possibly could have been intentionally Set,,,,

I hope that the SBI, FBI, and Fire Investigators do a thorough job,,,,

We've heard our share of conspiracy theories, but linking Grier to the Eastern fire is definitely a new one.

As for the timing of Grier's extension, I agree, that it makes the media's job more difficult and aggravating because it blows late-night deadlines to bits for the printed paper.

But we still have the Internet for posting late, breaking news.

As for conducting the discussion behind closed doors, that standard practice for personnel matters.

Finally, what's the motivation? How is delaying the news of Grier's one-year extension one day, or a few hours, going to deflect criticism?

Allen, the motivation is that by the time the public found out about the extension, it was a done deal!

Clearly, the way this was handled was an intentional end-around any potential criticism. Sure, people are complaining, but it's too late to do anything about it.

To review, this dirty deal was:

1. Done late at night and unannounced. If you believe either is coincidental, then you probably spent Halloween waiting on the Great Pumpkin to arrive.

2. Done in secret. Yes, discussing these types of matters behind closed doors has become standard practice, but it doesn't have to be that way. Shouldn't the public have some say into this discussion? And shouldn't newspaper editors, of all people, advocate open, transparent, honest government?

3. Done by a lame-duck school board. Why would it have hurt to wait at least until the two new board members were seated to have this discussion?

4. Was completely unneccessary. Don't forget: Grier still had three years on his contract before this vote. There was no practical or pressing need to extend his contract. The only reasons are, as I said, to stick it to board opponents and to reward a favored employee at taxpayer expense. Both are lousy reasons.

I won't criticize the N&R for supporting Grier - I'm actually not in "Grier is the root of all evil" camp myself.

But I do expend the media to play the role of government watchdog and to cry foul when our elected officials abuse their office. In the case of this editorial, that watchdog was blind, toothless and fast asleep under the porch.

I hope I don't offend anyone by saying this, but High Point is a hellhole. Driving down Main Street gives the appearance that paint stopped being invented in 1974. A dingy film covers everything. Unless you want a sofa or low-grade depression, there is no reason to go there.

I can see no reason why Greensboro should make nice. I can see good reasons for conquering High Point and making it a vassal city charged with producing furniture for its bettors to the northeast. Look at a map of Guilford County and you'll see High Point skulking down there in the left bottom corner. That's no accident of geography.

On Grier:
What would be different if the school board had announced the extension earlier in the night? What would have changed?

Your right, of course, Allen. There's nothing anybody can do. With a board like this and a press like you.

We're F#@#ed but good!

Allen, I think I've already addressed this, but...

The problem was that the school board passed this when no one knew about and no one would be watching. They were trying to slip one past the public. They knew the audience, the newspaper and the TV stations had already left and they hoped no one would notice.

At the very least, they bought themselves some time. Had they taken this vote in a room full of concerned citizens, it probably would've been met with jeers.

And why didn't they announce ahead of time that they would be voting on an extension for Grier? Why didn't they open this up to some public comment? And why do this in a closed-door session?

And (for the third time), I'll say: why did they even need to give Grier an extension? Grier still had three years left on his existing contract. Why was this so urgent that it required a late-night, unannounced secret meeting?

As we said in the ediitorial, there is nothing wrong with adding stability to the job, if you believe a superintendent is performing well.

As you know, the superintendent serves at the pleasure of the board. He still can be fired at any time.

One question: What would you have said if there had been public discussion of Grier's contract and you had gotten a chance to speak?

The school board members are supposed to speak for their constituencies. I guarantee that the majority of the citizens of Guilford County would not vote for a contract extension for Grier.

I thought they decided that because of the average age of the sitting members and because board meetings went past their usual bedtimes, that NO NEW BUSINESS was to be started after a certain time.

Lastly, was the contract extension discussion on the agenda?

OH, and Brian444...go lick yourself.

I know this has nothing to do with the furniture industry and it's impact on our area, but here goes anyway.

Grier received a contract extension, but the Board can still fire him at will if they feel there are performance issues. The Board correctly handled a personnel issue behind closed doors. The fact that it was held at a late hour shouldn't conjure up visions of a conspiracy.

The question that I have, is that if the school system is in such disarray as some say, why weren't all of the BOE seats up for election this past week contested races?

Apparently the majority of Guilford residents felt comfortable with the policies of the BOE and the course it is taking.

First of all Allen, there is a growing unity in High Point. From NHP myself I had the opportunity to help Garth with his election to the school board. I spent most of Tuesday the 7th in and around Emorywood or "old HP" as you call it. If you didnt know Garth won the majority of the votes there against Debbie Maines who probably saw it as her stronghold since she was PTA president of HP Central for a long time.

Back to the point people in HP are becoming united in their view that Grier has to go. Whether it is Grier or the school board itself who knows but now the people of HP have spoken .

They want change and thats why they voted for Garth.

If you want to keep us content. Give us good schools and stop redistricting and experimenting with our kids.

They dont do any of that in your clicky middle class neighborhood NW do they Allen? Thats why you folks are happy.

Allen,

"As we said in the ediitorial, there is nothing wrong with adding stability to the job, if you believe a superintendent is performing well."

What fool would believe that with all of the problems in the district this year? And, you still haven't answered my question. Document your statement that student achievement is rising. That is a fallacious statement, and you know it.

"As you know, the superintendent serves at the pleasure of the board. He still can be fired at any time."

If this is true, Allen, then why give him a one-year extension? How does that "add stability to the position" if he can be fired at any time? That is a ludricous and a weak argument.

"But we still have the Internet for posting late, breaking news."

OK, when exactly was that breaking news posted on the internet? I saw no mention of it in your newspaper for days. It took Joe Stafford to report it to us.

Let's face it, Allen. Your newspaper is just a shill to defend and support Terry Grier and the school board. There is nothing that they can say or do that you will ever question or criticize. It is clear that someone controls what this newspaper does and says. It's obvious that no reasonable discussion is possible with this newspaper on issues of our schools. The influence of this newspaper within the county is withering away. At least the High Point Enterprise had the courage to tell the truth about this sorry little backroom deal that you are defending. Of course, they are in that dirty little hellhole called High Point as brian said. May High Point continue to kick your rear in every way possible. But, it's exactly what I have grown to expect from this newspaper.

It's Thursday folks! Go get your Rhino. They report the good, the bad and the ugly. They don't wait for Grier to call it in.

To Jon, the uncontested seats were in Greensboro-where they don't experiment with kids. The ONLY seat up for re-election in High Point was the seat (thank God) of Susan Mendenhall. Her butt is now gone.

I think we're all flying off the handle here. Allen Johnson lives in Greensboro. He writes for the "Greensboro" News and Record, not the High Point N&R. From Allen's prospective and the lady sitting in Irving Park right now, Grier is fine.
Aside from wasting millions of taxpayer dollars on one program after another that will each last as year and be discarded, coddling incompetent contractors out of politcal correctness, and surrounding himself with incompetent people managing the GCS physicals plant/ real-estate aquisition etc, Grier is fine, and let's face it, this probably goes on in every district across the country.

Obviously if Allen's community was being torn up and Irving Park momma suddenly has to choose between forking up Greensboro Day School tuition or putting the kiddies on the bus to Dudley, you going to see different editorials in the N&R.

What do you think, Allen. Come on, I'm trying to help you out here.

To respond to Jon and Allen, yes, the school board can fire Grier at will, but they still are on the hook for any money owed to him during the course of his contract. So the extension he received Thursday night is real money, so to speak.

As far as "adding stability," that still fails to explain why an employee under contract until 2009 needs an extension. I'd wager than 99 percent of the U.S. work force works so without a contract. Are all of those workplaces unstable?

C'mon, let's be realistic here. This was a parting gift to a favored employee from a lame-duck school board. Another word for it is "cronyism".

As far as what personally I would've said to the school board, Allen, that is irrelevant. My point is simply that the public should have been notified of this vote ahead of time and given the chance to participate in the discussion.

Dr. Grier is owed more than $1 million in salary and benefits and he is in charge of nearly 70,000 students. That makes his job performance a matter of public interest, don't you think?

Jon, if the majority of Guilford County is happy with the current direction of the school board, I would say that is a sad commentary on how uninformed the voting publc is. Just look at the problems our schools have faced in recent months:

- Declining test scores and huge gaps between white and black students.
- Massive construction problems at three local middle schools.
- Cost overruns on construction projects that will cost taxpayers millions of dollars.
- Serious crime and violence problems at a number of local schools - problems the school board has been unwilling to address.

But getting back to the Grier contract, I disagree with Stormy's withering take on the N&R. But I do believe that in this instance, the editorial staff has failed in its role as a government watchdog and advocate for the people.

And someone has posted the High Point Enterprise's editorial on the Grier topic over on Doug Clark's blog. The HPE has a 180-degree different take on it than the N&R, stating in part:

"The timing of the move certainly appears to be an effort by some members of the board to keep such potentially controversial action out of the public spotlight as much as possible."

At least one local editorial board gets it. And disatisfaction with the schools isn't limited to redistricting issues in North High Point. The problems I cited above are actually far more serious and affect the entire county.

Quote from editorial.....
Cries for Grier's head in some corners notwithstanding, the board in essence has said it likes what Grier is doing. And voters have continued to support school boards that support Grier.

Allen, you are right and its sad. We have too many uneducated, apathetic voters who go to the poll with no knowledge of what is occuring and who do not educate themselves on the issues/candidates.
The reason so many continue to put the same old faces back in, is not because they are satisfied with Dr. Grier, but because they are following a voting gude that was handed to them by a political organization. I know that the school board is supposed to be non-partisan, but we all know better. In Guilford County, in a Presidential year, it is almost impossible to unseed a Democrat.
Two years ago, a week after the election, I attended a meeting where mostly low income, minority families were in attendence. The dissatisfaction with our school system, Dr. Grier, and our school board was immense. I really felt sorry for these people because just a few days earlier, they had in good faith (on advice from their leaders) voted for the same faces that they were so angry at.
Until leadership (politicians, newspapers, community organizations, etc.)in Guilford County stops being so political and begins to ask the tough questions and hold The School Board and Staff accountable, we will continue to have the same faces in office and we will continue to fail our students.
I think we have good school board members of both parties, but we have some really poor ones too. Some of the really poor were reelected 2 years ago and I still contend that if it was done in a non Presidental election year, those members would have been replaced.
Unfortunately for the poor, they will remain in a system that is failing them and those who can afford it, have and will, continue to find other options.
So Allen, you are right that voters continue to elect the same board members but I believe you are wrong in your assumption that they support them and Dr. Grier.
That is really sad!

Allen,

I'm waiting for your reponse on how you feel that student achievement is rising. Tell us how it is.

Today's editorial suggests that Greensboro citizens should be able to participate in the selection of the new police chief. If you feel that way, then why not have a public referendum on Terry Grier's contract extension? Let the people of the county participate in that decision. I suspect if they did, the answer would be a big "Not Only No, But...No".

Better yet, let's have a public referendum on Terry Grier. Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

By the way, Allen, when will the News-Record give us the stragiht scoop on why Gasparello was locked out of his office and promoted to central office? It would seem that the News-Record has let that story slide.

Also, give us an update on the cause of the Eastern fire. Since everyone says this was extremely unusual for a school to burn so completely, why aren't you on top of that? It would make a great investigative story. Parents will surely be interested in knowing how it could have happened and what risks exist for their children's schools.

Stormy and Allen,

Here is some data on student achievement, offered without commentary:

The percentage of Guilford County schools meeting AYP:

2003-04: 68 percent
2004-05: 54 percent
2005-06: 44 percent

The percentage of Guilford County schools meeting state ABCs:

2003-04: 66 percent
2004-05: 58 percent
2005-06: 39 percent

The percentage of Guilford County students passing reading and math tests:

2003-04: 78.3 percent
2004-05: 77.4 percent
2005-06: Not available. However, only 62 percent passed the math tests, so the composite is likely to drop.

Average Guilford County Schools SAT score:

2003-04: 1,011
2004-05: 994
2005-06: 994

Decide for yourself if these scores constitute "rising student achievement."

Stormy, on Gasparello, we have let that story go. The official announcement is that he has been moved to another position. He hasn't been fired or, best we can determine, disciplined in anyway. We don't even know that he was locked out of his office, as you state. So, aside from all the rumors, there isn't an obvious story there.

We're tracking the Eastern fire cause, but it hasn't been determined yet.

When you say you are "tracking" the Eastern fire, does that mean that you are actually sending people out to get the information? Or, are you merely waiting for Grier's people to call said information in to you?

Did you also "track" the Gasparello story? The need for the cover-of-night contract extension?

*whisper* I think you need new "trackers"

In all deference to Terry Grier. I'm going to play "Angel's Advocate" for Terry here for a minute. The CP lottery was voted in and spearheaded by Dot Kearns and Sue Mendenhall. Terry doesn't vote on these things. Can we for a minute maybe imagine that Sue and Dot were the impetus for this plan?

I mean, I for one would like to imagine that a conversation like this took place;

Dot: That's it Dr. Grier, we're doing it!

TG: I don't know...Maybe...

Dot: Look, we have to get white kids at our school. We just do.

Sue: Yeah.

TG: Well where do you expect me to get them from?

Dot: You talked about that lottery thingy...And there's white kids out at that SW High

TG: I was just kidding...kind of.

Dot: Do it!

TG: Dorothy, will all due respect, I don't think the parents are going to go for having their school be the only school in the whole county where we are going to remove students for re-distribution by lottery to another school where YOU want them to go and say it's for socioeconomic balance.

Dot; Parents? You believe this guy, Sue?

Sue; Yeah. What's the problem?

TG: The school you are taking the kids from is almost 40% minority now. And what about doing this in High Point but not in Greensboro where we have much more segregated schools? How do you expect me to sell this?

Dot: How much you making since that last raise?

Sue: Yeah. The Chop House and Nobuls gets so boring week after week, don't you think, Dot. And they are kind of pricey.

Dot: But that Oyster Salad, my god. And the oysters are still warm...Oooohhhh.

Terry: Okay, okay. There's a place in San Francisco where they do the lottery. We can tell them the schools will be world class.

Dot: World class?

Sue: How about just state class?

Terry: Have you seen the state scores? You gotta leave this to the master. The BS is my department.

Dot: Right. Let's go with world class...or don't tell them anything. Who cares. They go where I tell them.

Sue: California here we come.

I'd like to think he did it just for the money. At least you could begin to understand it.

John,

Thank you for personally responding to my question regarding whatever happened to Gasparello. I'm, sorry but I don't understand "we have let that story go". I understand that you let the story go, but I don't understand why you let the story go. Even in view of the "official announcement", it seems that a highly-regarded principal of the district's flagship school being reassigned overnight to a made-up job in central office in teh middle of a school year would be a news story worth pursuing. You don't see that every day, so a little more information of it would be worthwhile to your readers. I am aware that many parents and teachers of Grimsley are at a loss to understand what happened. Surely, a better explanation is owed to them, at least, than we let the story go.

If Mr. Gasparello was removed from the school for cause, then the Grimsley family has a right to know the facts.

Stormy, it's gone to where all stories detrimental to GCS that can't be spun by the N&R go to die.

Grave Dancer,

I'm afraid that you are right, even though from what I heard it was a pretty serious matter, but we don't know whether it was fact of fiction, so I guess that it'll just be let go.

Stormy,

You asked about student achievement rising. If we're talking passing rates, which I think is what Allen probably was looking at, then you can look at the data in the AYP district detail reports to track the trends. You can see the district as a whole or the different socioeconomic subgroups that AYP tracks.

Data goes back to 2002-03. The reports are available at http://abcs.ncpublicschools.org "> abcs.ncpublicschools.org.

Click on the link to the right for "AYP Results."

Remember that for the high schools, the state changed from the 10th-grade comprehensive tests to using a combination of EOCs in 2004-05. They also reset the bar, moving it lower because of the change in what tests were used. (Kids didn't take the comprehensive tests seriously because they didn't count for anything, unlike EOCs which are part of a student's class grade.)

Jennifer,

Take a look at the Math data for the following schools and compare results from the last few years.

Southwest, Page and Ragsdale, Dudley, Smith, Central and Andrews.

I did. Here is what I saw.

Improved results for Page, Ragsdale, Dudley and Smith. They were not marginal improvements. They were significant!

Worse results for SW, Central and a marginal improvement for Andrews.

Suprise suprise for the school board. You CAN teach kids at highly impacted schools.

This is exactly why Garth Hebert was voted on the school board and exactly why people of High Point are totally sick of Grier.

FIRE GRIER NOW!~

I would like to ask Allen to show us HIS data on where results are improving. I know they are ok in that clicky Northwest neighborhood where he lives but down here in High Point per the previous post there is no improvement just experiments, bussing and more experiments!

Jennifer,

I appreciate your post providing data on what you feel Allen was probably looking at. Certainly, I can wade through this data and develop my own impressions, but what I would like is a simple, 25-word summary from Allen defining his position that "student achievement is rising". It's very possible that my analysis and his might produce a somewhat different understanding, so I'd like to understand his view of the data. It's also true that he may have had something altogether different in mind when he made that statement. His statement regarding rising student achievement is a very important aspect of his assertion that Grier got what he deserved.

Allen,,,,oh, Allen. Hmmm....Out tracking down some data????? Take your time.

I'm pretty sure Stormy's not quite right with his numbers. I'll be back on that. Was out of the office much of yesterday afternoon. Sorry for the delay.

Allen...Oh, Allen. Just checking. I know you're probably up to your eyeballs right now pouring over GCS data looking for evidence of "progress". Please, carry on.

SSS,

Actually, it does take awhile to go through the data.

Here's some of it from the AYP disaggregated data, which shows passing rates on state tests for socioeconomic subgroups of students ...

From 2002-03 to 2005-06, reading scores for GCS went up in all of the subgroups for grades 3-8. (The number for white students was such a small increase though, from 92.7 to 93.5, that it is more like they hit a plateau.) The lowest number was 45.1 percent for limited English proficient students in 2002-03. They also had the lowest number last year, at 60.1 percent.

In 10th-grade reading, if you compared 2004-05 to 2005-06 (before 04-05 they used a different test; now they use a combination of EOCs) all the subgroups also rose. The numbers aren't as good here, with a low of 16 percent in 2004-05 (students with disabilities, who reached 25.3 percent in 05-06). The lowest 05-06 number was for limited English proficient students at 16.1. There's no corresponding number for 04-05 because of insufficient data for that subgroup that year.

Math numbers hit a plateau for all but one subgroup in grades 3-8 from 02-03 to 04-05. Limited English proficient students gained nearly 14 percentage points in that time.

With the change in how the math test is graded, numbers drop drastically for 05-06.

However, these lower math scores are more in line with what nationally normed tests tell us about math performance in our state. Passing percentages in the 80s and 90s were artificially inflated under the old test. Now, scores range from about 39 percent to about 80 percent for Guilford's subgroups, which is more reflective of student knowledge in math, based on national tests such as the National Assessment of Educational Progress.

I also looked at Cumberland, Forsyth, and Charlotte. They followed the same trends.

See for yourself, although it is somewhat time consuming: http://abcs.ncpublicschools.org

Jennifer, I don't know about others, but you sure as heck convinced me with this last post. I've decided to jump on the bandwagon is this incresingly pathetic little Banana Republic. Why not? Why fight? You win. Allen Wins. The Guilford Co. Democratic Party wins!!!!!
I give up. I prostrate myself at your feet.

VIVA EL TERRITO. EL PRESIDENTE FOR LIFE !!!!!

Not

Allen,

"I'm pretty sure Stormy's not quite right with his numbers." What numbers am I not quite right on? I didn't post any numbers.

It seems that you are having a pretty hard time coming up with a 25-word summary that shows that student achievement is rising. If you wrote that in your editorial several days ago, then you should be able to provide a short summary without having to have Jennifer scramble around through the data to find something positive to say. Her post above seems to show that she just went through the numbers You did have some data in front of you when you wrote that, didn't you, or did you just wing it, thinking that no one would challenge it?

Stormy,

Isn't it possible that Terry Grier himself told Allen what to say?

Allen probably looked at the Northwest numbers only. I hear that the sky is blue up there. House prices rising, kids excelling in schools.
Sounds like the American dream!

The editorial mentioned achievement among several other factors that we believe spoke to Grier's job performance.
Unfortunately, the editorial was not primarily about test scores; it was about Grier's contract.
Of course, you can say anything you want with numbers, which emphasize improvement but which can be deceiving in schools where achievement already is strong, and big increases may be harder to come by.
On balance, I see overall progress, but you can cherry pick the numbers to see what you want to see.
For instance, Truth points out improvement at Smith and Dudley, but both schools are under a judge's threat to do better or close down. In other words, they're improving but still below where they ought to be.
You can do the same, for instance, with dropout rates, which are better (meaning lower) in Guilford County than comparable systems, but which have held steady after a significant drop.
Yoy could argue that we're doing better than most. Or you could argue that we've stalled here.
As for the hostility Grier gets from north High Pointers, remember, the High Point Choice Plan was not his idea.
Grier was doing the bidding of the school board, and a number of High Point leaders who supported the plan, but who let Grier take the heat when opposition against it mounted.
Yet that seems to be the primary basis for a lot of the animosity against Grier.

I also said this.

"Worse results for SW, Central and a marginal improvement for Andrews".

I believe the judge has nasty things to say about these schools too.

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