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I think you have to put fighting in a different context in each sport. Baseball fights are rarely serious, just alot of guys pushing and shoving for a few minutes. The line you don't cross is using the bat in a fight. In the early 60's Juan Marichal of the Giants hit the Dodgers catcher over the head with a bat and drew blood after he was brushed back by Sandy Koufax. Much more serious situation.

In hockey fighting has always been a way to control dirty play away from the puck. Because of the amount of equipment involved it's rare that anyone is hurt. The line you don't cross in hockey is more to do with using the stick during play than fighting.

Why the NBA fights are viewed worse is because of factors unique to the game. Of all the sports named, you have alot better chance of being hurt in a basketball fight because you have no protective gear and there are some serious punches being thrown. The other factor that makes basketball fights worse is the proximity of the fans to the court and the potential for the violence to spill over. Finally, the Kermit Washington-Rudy Tomjanovich incident looms large with the NBA. Tomjanovich was very seriously injured by a punch during a fight.

I think the bottom line is that the history and customs of each sport are different and that's 70% of the story. The other 30% may well be prejudice.

Deford acknowledges some of those differences in sports, but I'm not convinced that hockey fights in particular can't result in serious injury. Or that they serve that useful a purpose. Funny how they avoid fighting in venues such as the Olympics.

Are you and Frank Deford implying that basebrawls on the caliber of the latest NBA incident are not or would not be covered to the same extent? I would simply have to disagree. Unfortunately fighting is part of Hockey. But even here a bench clearing incident with a KO or two would be big news. The NBA has brought this scrutiny upon itself and have no one to blame but the NBA.

FD is a grumpy old, aging hippy whose time has come and gone. Look for prejudices elsewhere.

Mick, I didn't say I necessarily agreed with Deford but he made me think.
Even if race is a factor in the coverage, it doesn't excuse thuggish behavior.
One of the more disturbing aspects of the Knicks-Nuggets brawl was the fact that the hard foul was premeditated and appears to have been ordered by Knicks Coach Isiah Thomas. That's inexcusable.

Mick, did the Knicks-Nuggets incident result in a "KO or two"? Hardly. While ugly, it's not like anyone was seriously injured in the melee. Hockey has far more violent brawls on a fairly regular basis, although fighting is far less common than it once was.

I'm normally not one to find racism in every corner. But I'm not willing to completely discount Deford's argument.

If the NBA has brought this level of scrutiny on itself, then why hasn't the NFL received the same scrutiny? Eight Cincinnati Bengal players have been arrested for far more serious crimes. Albert Haynesworth of the Titans actually stomped another player in the head earlier this year - a far more violent incident than the Knicks-Nuggets fight.

Yet no one claims these incidents are an indictment of the league in general or football players as a whole. No one claims the NFL has an "image problem" because of these incidents.

A double-standard clearly exists here. I'm not sure that racism is to blame for this double standard, but I'm also not sure that it isn't.

The NBA has an image problem because... the NBA has an image problem. The NBA and the "gangsta" imagery are intertwined. That is not an invention of the public's collective imagination. It is what it is. If you dont want to be viewed as a "gangsta duck" then dont quack, waddle, dress like and hang out with "gangsta ducks". Dont get your "wears" in a wad here. Though primarily African American the whole "gangsta" image is certainly not wholely owned by any one community. Been to the mall or any high school of late?

Haynesworth's 5 game, without pay, suspension for unsportsmanlike conduct was the toughest in NFL history and amounted to appx 1/3 the regular season. As to The Bengals, the stats of which you speak are shameful and alarming and are mentioned in EVERY Bengal related broadcast. So, that hasnt exactly been swept under the rug. Most hockey fights are 1 on 1 and do not compare with the Knicks/Nuggets. We've all heard that old joke about "went to a fight and a hockey game broke out". Hockey's image was at one time nearing that "joke". They cleaned it up a bit. So, no double standard there.

Also a notable difference is the US exposure between the NHL and NBA. They are not even in the same rink as far as that goes.

Overall, some seem to be comparing apples to oranges as the NBA incident was a bench clearing, multi player, extended brawl resulting in multiple suspensions and millions in fines. I submit similarly severe brawls would indeed get the ESPN time regardless of sport. And yes there was at least a "knockdown" in the NBA altercation. I believe that sucker punch knockdown is what landed Mello the extra bench time. The Knicks/Nuggets brouhaha was also the first major fight since the Pacers/Pistons and thus received more air time by default.

Double standard .. perhaps. But like the smart-aleck kid in the back of the classroom who gets stiffer punishments ... the reputation is earned.

Well, I don't think it is a deserved double standard.

Sure, some NBA athletes are trouble-makers. But plenty are good guys - Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan, Lebron James, Dwayne Wade, Grant Hill, Emeka Okafor, Ray Allen, Shaq, etc. Can't paint everyone with the "thug" brush.

And the behavior of athletes in other sports is equally bad or, in many cases, even worse. But it never seems to tarnish the entire sport the way these incidents do in the NBA.

Sure, people mention the Bengals' woes, but no one says it's a pro football problem. But a few NBA players get in a fight and it's suddenly a league-wide problem? I don't understand that.

Is it true that the Players Agreement in the NBA protects them from being tested for Marijuana use ?????????

The culture of the NBA Game has changed ,,,Players now worry more that their Corn Rows are tight than their Free Throw Percentage.

Are my Tatoos showing up good on camera,,,,and why does Iverson wear a sock on his arm ???

Good Lord,,, who cares about the NBA anyway?????

With Iverson, Anthony, Artest, as Role models for todays Youth,,, it's not a wonder Tests scores in schools are Down and Crime rates are up..

Baseball and football are largely dominated by minority athletes these days, so I don't think this is about race.

You also have to consider that there was good video of the fight which always helps the media hype a story, as opposed to the baseball fights where usually the only video consists of a big circle of players backs covering up the actual fighting.

Further, this story is also timely in light of the NBA's recent attempts to clean up its image and therefore likely to garner more coverage.

I agree with much of what has been said in this thread.
The brawl between the Knicks and Nuggets was deplorable and uncalled for. Carmello Anthony's sucker punch and quick retreat were childish and cowardly. Knicks Coach Isiah Thomas's apparent encouragement of a flagrant foul was despicable and merits some tyoe of sanction.
That said, the NBA bears the burden of a greater stigma because the overwhelming majority of its players are black -- more than any other sport.
Over the years baseball has featured fewer and fewer African American players.
Hockey is, well, what it is.
Pro football is majority black but the relationship between the players and fans is less personal, more obscured by helmets amd pads and more distant.
As for the justification for fighting as de riguer in hockey, no way.
The international game is crisp and fast and generally bereft of NHL-like goons.
So is the Olympics.
Fighting is not a necessary evil in hockey. It isa brutal, bloody sideshow.

Sure, it's a double standard imposed by David Stern, who understands that he has to market inner-city athletes (with no helmets, with cameras only feet away) to a predominately white audience only feet away from the action. The spatial and visual boundaries are much different than in other sports, and the NBA brand depends on deracializing--or at least de-ghettoizing--the sport to some degree. Witness the glee with which many Americans viewed the US Olympic losses of late. I usually call baloney on the race card, but this is about race.

That said, I don't really have a problem with it, since it's an NBA issue and the players ultimately benefit from the brand Stern rather brilliantly manages.

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