News-Record.com

Many, many , many Minority People have taken the path to success by not dwelling on the past,,,,they have jumped in Head First, into Education and Hard Work in order to become good successful citizens...

While not forgetting the History of Terror that their Ancestors had to endure,,,,they choose to take a more productive approach to life than School Board Member, Deena Hayes....

Deena chooses to use Racism as a "BIG BUSINESS" approach to her Success....

Has she done anything productive for the Education of Poor, Minority Children?????

If tests scores are any indication,,, Deena has failed her People...

Racism is a Lucrative, Money maker for some people such as Jackson and Sharpton,,,and Deena seems to have chosen this same Career Path...

Minority Contracts, Racial Healing Seminars, Slaves and slave masters are about all I have heard out of Deena since taking her seat on the board.

Deena,,, Education of Students will only improve when Opportunist such as yourself start thinking on a more Productive Level...

Racial harmony would put Deena out of Business...

The White Population in Guilford County has long been the target of Deenas Venom, and are Tired her antics,,,and it seems now that all races are beginning to see Deena for what she really is.....

Deena,,, GET OVER THE PAST ,,,,do something productive toward educating all Children for their future....

Your act is growing Old....

It is hard to believe that a person so filled with Hate toward the White Race,, should be allowed to make decisions regarding their education.....

Did Hitler start out this way??????????

Do Muslim Extremists believe in "Death to the Blue Eyed Devils"?????

Allen, what do you think would have been your reaction or the minority community's reaction if Mr. Spaulding or a white male schoolboardmember would have got up to the podium and said. "We are tired of having our kids at these "schools within schools" when everyone knows it's like mingling slaves and slaveowners" ?

I won't presume to speak for Deena, but I don't think she hates white people. I think she has strong views about what she perceives as racism and injustice. And sometimes she sees them where they aren't.

The same way.

I presume you were replying to me with your "the same way" quote above. If not please forgive my presumption.

So Allen, what you are saying is you would have waited three weeks to even acknowlege in the N&R that such remarks were even made and only make then after being goaded into it by people on your blog?

If you think that anybody believes that, you are mistaken and possibly delusional.

No, I waited to watch a tape of the meeting for myself and to interview Hayes, as well as others who were there.
It's interesting how people heard the same words differently.

Allen,

You cannot possibly believe the community and or media reaction would have been similar had a white male used those words. That is ridiculous. Ms Hayes appears to me a racist plain and simple by any definition. Nice attempt to paint her as simply outspoken and brash. She may call em like she sees em but she is blinded by racism ... primarily her own.

"Slaves" and "Slaveonwers" as an anology? Certainly, but not one so innocuous that it warrants your easy dismisal, Allen.

Hayes could have easily said "oil and water" if she were looking simply for a clear anology of things that don't mix. Slave and slaveowners was loaded with meaning beyond two things that don't mix and for her to pretend that there was no additional meaning to that choice of words beyond an innocent anolog is just insulting.

I was referring to my reaction. The minority community overall would have been deeply offended.

Allen, the reaction and air of dis-interest was so muted you didn't even know the remarks were made until someone on the blog told you.

You are deliberately being coy. You know if Alan Duncan or Garth or Anita or Darlene would have said something like this, Sharpton would have been on the next plane in.

You go on and on about having "honest dialog" but the reality is you're just F.O.S. You lament lack of dialogue on these racial issues and here you are-a public opinion maker and YOU can't even be honest, how can the rest of the community start to be?

Roch, by the same way I meant that the choice of words would have been inflammatory and inappropriate in either case.

Here's what I wrote in the post about Deena:

"... while I respect her forthrightness, I've often disagreed with her. And I've found her too shrill and brusque in making some of her points."

"To say she can use inflammatory words to express her views is, well, an understatement."

Savage:
You're right on that point. If I had known then what I know now, I'd have written about it sooner.

So, Allen, you are saying the N&R's reaction would have been exactly the same as the Deena reaction-essentially no reaction at all?

I can't speak for the news department, but if she actually had called the parents slave owners I believe it would have been a bigger story.

The remark was about the CHILDREN mingling. NOT adults. Call me whatever you want, but leave my children alone, and all the other children in Guilford County. No child deserves to be compared to "slaves" or "slavemasters".

If one goes back far enough in History you shall find that we are all descendants of Slavery and Oppression.

As soon as some in Society quit their belly aching over what has happened in the past and get on with their life,,,the better off the world will be.

I certainly agree that the "race card" issues introduced to this discussion are an unfortunate and untimely aside to the primary goal of securing or maintaining the integrity of the VSN program.

Still, as Hayes' comments have brought large-scale attention to this discussion, does anyone know the racial make-up of the Advanced Learner students as a group? I'm sure those statistics are monitored, and I'd like to see them - especially since Hayes says, "I would vote right now to disband this program [VSN] and to send these parents back to their home schools and let their children take advantage of the advanced learner program and if they want more special services for their kids to go and seek those." Does the Advanced Learner program, in fact, mirror our community at large, or does it provide yet more evidence of the importance and results of parental involvement? Besides the fact that the education provided at VSN students' "home schools" is nowhere near that provided by the VSN program, would Hayes' alternative, in fact, solve the lack of "mingling" issue? If not, would she agree that disbanding the VSN program would be doing a great disservice to the students in need of the specialized attention & resources provided by same?

Michael Pope
(parent of VSN student)

I'm not defending Deena's choice of words and I wouldn't. But she was using them as an analogy to speak to an issue in the present, not the past.

Allen,

You comments as a whole on this issue are nothing more than WEAK. Full stop.

Mis-interpretetd BS. An elected official of our school board has used a terrible offensive analogy.

Its OK you say, she was mis-interpreted. Is it therefore ok for all our children to go around school and use this type of rhetoric? Our teachers?

I think not.

Allen, you have just openned the door for Deena to carry on with these type of comments.

That is BAD! You are setting a bad example for the School Board, the community and our children.

Furthermore I demand an opology.

While we are at it you can opologise for the loss of 400 children from our High Point High schools.

Allen, I can see you not agreeing with this statement from Deena.

"mingling between black and white students doesn't necessarily signify a positive relationship between them".

Its not very pro-diversity thought is it?

Amen everyone...amen. Actually, I'm turning this Deena fiasco into an opportunity, for I'm interested in reaching out to VSN parents. Please e-mail me, for i'm interested in setting up a focus meeting & tour of Lincoln. Go to my website for more info.

Let's suppose that Ms. Smith (fictitious) is teaching a VSN group at Lincoln, when another Lincoln student (non-VSN) brings a written message from the office to Ms. Smith. The child lingers around for a few minutes awaiting Ms. Smith's reading of the note and providing a written response to the sender. Let's say 10 minutes pass.

The non-VSN student has stood patiently and the rest of the class has continued working together on a group project.

Suppose Ms. Smith looks at the class and says "This reminds me of slavemasters and slaves mingling".

Would there be an outcry and demand for Ms. Smith's resignation or would it simply be viewed as a good history lesson???

So Allen do you like Skip Alston dressed in drag or not?

I thought I would give Deena Hayes a chance about two and half years ago when I met her and her white professor friends from Guilford College. It turned out they were scarrier than Deena Hayes. They kept trying to get me to chant "I'm white and I'm ashamed.... I'm white and I'm ashamed."

You know what.... It didn't work.... This woman is absolute poison. Let's not lose sight of the fact that her only interest in her elected position is making sure that enough minority contracts are awarded to a certain company so HER MAN has a job.

She does have one benefit though. She is also on record recently as saying she will not support any new school bonds until the Minority Contractor status shows improvement. If she wants to lobby against the school bonds I certainly will not stop her.

I think Allen is right in one respect, at least: we have to keep trying to have some sort of conversation to get at the underlying issues leading (or misleading) us into such rhetoric, on both sides. The VSN parent sounded very self-congratulatory and chiding, which then leads (no surprise) to an aggrieved response from Ms. Hayes.

Ms. Hayes proceeds to make a less-than-apt analogy for what she RIGHTLY perceived as frosty race relations and unfortunate STUDENT feelings amongst those at a school where the two constituencies were veritably cordoned off during the school day, only to "mingle" at PTA performances, etc.

Finally (or should I say, incessantly), the blogosphere is filled with huffy demands for apologies on all sides, recriminations and rationalizations.

Is this any way to really discuss the pressing, significant troubles facing our school system and the needs of the children to be prepared for the changing world?

Should School Board Members be a role model for children? If yes, should they be a role model for both black and white children? What is Deena's obligation? Is it to all citizens of Guilford County? or is just to members in her District? or is it to the majority group in her district? Deena seems to have given up on white people. If this is true, how can she be so sure that resegregation is the answer. I still believe that we owe it to each other to work together in harmony. We have spent 50 years trying to do this and turning back would be a disaster.

I agree that the VSN sounded condescending but there is no way an elected official should respond in such a manner. No way. There were so many ways for her to express her dismay or disgust with what the VSN parent said.

An elected official of the school board should behave better. There were children of the VSN program present!!!

Jim, there is just no excuse in this world for her behaviour and Allen as previously stated now officially has small bollocks!

If you want to hear it over and over and over, go to:

http://www.myfoxwghp.com/myfox/

I'm quite enjoying it. The next time that Deena DARES to vote to send even one single child to a school that has a majority population that does not match the color of that child's skin, I'm going to remind her of her self-imposed "mingling" rule.

I've heard that this story was picked up by the Associated Press. I hope Deena's white daddy is watching when it gets aired nationally. I don't think he's gonna like it.

"Bollocks" is a word meaning testicles in British English.

I've only visited this blog since VSN became a news item. I've been reluctant to post (more on that later) but I feel compelled.

In fact, VSN, Global Studies, and Performing Arts students "mingle" quite well at Lincoln Academy. This is due in part the a supportive Principal, Rodney Boone and also because there is a diverse range of achievers at Lincoln.

VSN, by definition, is a program for the top percentile of academic achievers. These kids do not do well in a regular classroom. They have "very strong academic needs" that are not adequately met in a regular classroom. GCS provides "homogeneous groupings in the core curricula" for VSN students. This means they take math, language arts, science and english with other VSN students. The take electives, extracurriculars, gym, etc. with all kinds of kids.

Elementary VSN used to be housed at Wiley. There was NOT a diverse range of achievers at Wiley. There were VSN kids (the most academically gifted kids in the county) and districted school kids who happened to be the most academically needy kids in the county. Advanced Learner Coordinators are assigned to schools to work with students who are identified as having "moderate" or "strong" needs (as opposed to "Very Strong Needs" within the school. If any of you reading this have kids in school, your school has an AL Coordinator. At one point, the AL coordinator at Wiley had 0 (zero) kids to work with because none were identified at the "moderate" or "strong" levels. This is why I say there was NOT an academically diverse population at Wiley - only the brightest and the most academically needy.

This recipe for disaster is even worse when you consider that VSN is predominately white. The districted kids at Wiley were, I believe, all black. This setting only fueled an ignorant racial stereotype. The situation at Wiley was worse because of a Principal who did not have the skills to manage the school, much less the social dynamics that were at play there. (This Principal was counselled by her superiors all year and was demoted at the end of the year and placed in another school.)

Ms. Hayes seems to have dedicated her life to battling racial injustice - a noble cause. I believe that she unfortunately never saw beyond the stereotype at Wiley. VSN is still predominately white but the numbers are moving in the direction that better reflects our community. They are moving slowly, but they are moving. Ms. Hayes, I believe, blamed all of Wiley's problem's on VSN parents who she refered to as a well-organized group of white parents trying to privatize the education of their children at public expense. She saw VSN parents as the perpetrators of the ignorant stereotype that existed at Wiley (and unfortunately exists in many other places I'm afraid.) Ms. Hayes, I believe, continues to see Lincoln in the same light and it is not. The environment at Wiley was atrocious. The environment at Wiley is far better in part because of Mr. Boone and in part because of VSN's co-existence with magnet programs that have attracted a diverse range of achievers to Lincoln.

I and many other VSN parents were offended by Ms. Hayes' remarks (which were her response because she was offended by mine) and a number of us came forward to voice our concerns. In voicing my concerns, I (and others) put considerable pressure on the BOE to censure Ms. Hayes and to "take sides" on a controversial and inflammatory issue. They did not. Instead, they defended her right to make her comments and in so doing protected our right to do likewise. Garth Herbert showed leadership in making that happen. Welcome to America. The N&R and other media in their lust for the sensation and their drive to sell ad space (that's the only business any of them are in - sorry, Allen) incorrectly reported Garth's comments as support for Ms. Hayes. Most Board members were either appalled by Ms. Hayes' comments or numb to them because they hear them all the time. They supported her right to make those comments.

What unfortunately got lost in all of this is the real issue which is the educaton of all children, including VSN. VSN is a very small program but those of us who benefit from it find it vital.

Ms. Hayes is not a demon, racism is a demon. I was surprised to learn that Ms. Hayes was instrumental in helping a couple of families in her district navigate the morass of beauracracy necessary to learn about, determine eligibility for, and enroll in VSN. Those parents' children (who happen to be African American) are today thriving at Lincoln in the VSN program and would deeply regret having to return to their districted schools if that ever became necessary.

The reality is that VSN continues to be predominately white. Board members ask outloud "Why can't we identify black children who are eligible for VSN?" There are enormous pressures for VSN to reflect the diversity that exists in the community. It should reflect that diversity. It should not reflect that diversity by changing the criteria for eligibility or gerry-mandering the enrollment process. I will continue to fight what I see as efforts to weaken this important program. I will continue to support efforts to identify and enroll eligible minorities. Ms. Hayes and I will continue to disagree but I'm hopeful that our paths may converge at some point.

If you've read this far then I hope I have helped you understand this issue. I've been reluctant to make this post because of what I see as the "false bravado" that so often crops up in the postings here. While some of the postings here seem thoughtful and even shed new light on an issue, I have read a number of things that sound as if they are coming from drunks in a bar and they are usually, but not always, authored by anonymous people. I wish more of you would follow John Gehris's lead and take responsibiltiy for your words by signing your name. It would give you a lot more credibility and it would also give you the opportunity to think more carefully about what you are saying. In case any of you are reacting to this comment with a "Who is this guy?" I'm not ashamed to tell you.

Bill Spaulding

Mr.Spalding,

I think that the comments by Deena Hayes were wrong and not acceptable. As an elected oficial of the school board she should of respected your opinon and responded in a more educated manner.

As for yourself. I think a more humble approach might have been more appropriate.

When I said in my previous post:

"The environment at Wiley is far better in part because of Mr. Boone and in part because of VSN's co-existence with magnet programs that have attracted a diverse range of achievers to Lincoln."

I meant to say "The environment at Lincoln is far better . . . " My apology for any confusion.

Bill Spaulding

Mr. Spauling,

Thank you for having the courage to post on this blog, as I know only too well it takes courage.

I agree with your sharing here. I also believe that Deena does not owe anyone an apology and did not make racially harmful statements.

So how can those two things both be true?

I do believe in the VSN program. If we have intervention for students who are behind, we MUST provide a challenging curriculum for students who are ahead. You have every right to advocate for a successful and well managed VSN program. I will advocate for that too.

I believe that Deena was using a historical reference to make a point that there is a difference between poor black students and affluent white students and that if you are going to mix the two in a meaningful and purposeful way, you need to have some level of mastery and competence to that end.

Let's be authentic and honest. There is a big difference between the experience of being white and affluent and being black and poor.

Deena is clear that she is here to be an advocate for black students. That means poor, middle class and affluent. What is wrong with that? We have parents who advocate for EC kids, because they have an EC kid. Isn't that good? And Deena is a black woman, so why would she not show up to advocate for black students and families? Doesn't that make sense? Someone needs to really take that on... and Deena does that.

I know that Deena has made some racially charged comments in the past, but I really believe that this latest issue is being viewed with a lense from the past. IF you look at the transcript of just this exchange, Deena's comments are in context, and meant to be a reference point for meaningful engagement and relationship, and to beg the assessment of that at these schools. I know Deena and I do not believe she was making a racist or deragatory statement about any child or any parent.

Please know that the VSN program has my support, and in this situation, so does Deena Hayes. Those two are not mutually exclusive in this situation.

Terrina, that was even a better spin than Allen's.

I give you an A+. Allen a B.

Hmmm...I see maybe a political run in your future, or at the very least some No-Bid GCS contracts.

VOTE NO ON SCHOOLBONDS

Kearns/ Grier/ Hayes

THE WACKOS MUST GO---OR NO DOUGH

Spaulding, you're wasting your time trying to change anything in Guilford county. We tried to evoke change and found that it only took time away from the very precious children we were trying to raise and educate. Want to wake up and feel the weight of all this crap lifted off you?--go private. It's a great feeling and anyone that's done it has only one regret-that they didn't do it sooner.

What was it that Bill Spaulding said in his own analogy, about drunken posts from a bar?

Also, what is being largely lost in this conversation is the point Hayes was addressing ... the racial makeup of the VSN program and why and whether the program is an enclave unto itself.
Thanks, Mr. Spaulding, Mr. Langer and Miss Picarello for speaking to those issues.

As for Jaycee, you should be ashamed. What's the point of the mean and silly personal attack? Your post will be deleted and you will be banned if you post such a comment again.

Good for you, Allen. These forums should be a civil place for everyone and if people can't follow the rules, they shouldn't be allowed to play. Glad to see you enforcing some decorum.

On to the topic at hand: I think you are giving Deena too much of a free pass. Comparing Lincoln students to "slaves and slavemasters" is completely unacceptable, no matter what the context.

I also believe that if a white board member had made that comparison, the N&R would be calling for his or her resignation the following day - and rightfully so.

Jeez, Allen. Little hard on Jaycee there. What happened to the schoolboard- approved "free speech" initiative?

Deena could have made her point in a much less derogatory manner, but each of us speak of what we know. I think that the BOE would work better together is each member tried to look at education as a whole and not just for his or her constituents.

The VSN program is for those kids that test into it. Color of skin has no place in who can pass the test. An arguement could be made as to whether the test in itself is fair, but that is out of our control.

Some parents might be testing their children outside of school to get them the help that they need. Affluent parents can do that much easier than poor parents. If their children qualify for special education needs then they deserve to receive those services. If this conversation was about an EC child people would be appalled.

The BOE has created this situation by trying to intergrate a minority school with a predominately white program. I have to agree with Deena that it takes special care to create a successful blending of these programs. I would think that VSA students mingle with their other cohorts as much as the Academy at Smith students do, or the HP Central Cooking Academy etc.

As most VSN parents have said, the program at Lincoln has been successful and much better than the situation at Wiley, so it has been a positive move. Having a school with 96% capacity is nothing to worry about! Many if not most of our schools are at 120-150% capacity. Moving or splitting one of the programs at that time might be discussed, but it should not necessarily be VSN.

Allen, did you "censor" and remove my comment from last night about Deena Hayes?
It was the truth, it's well documented, and can be proven.
Why was it removed?

Come on all you bloggers out there. Who had the best Deena-Spin? Allen or Terrina? Cast your votes.

I agree with the Great Karnak.

Terrina 1 Allen 0

And, Jaycee, your point was ...?

I think Deena's choice of words were very strong and If i were her I would not put it that way. however I agree with the point of bringing up racism because It still exists. It doesnt exist the way it did in the 1950s but it does exist in a subdue manner. Many people like to stick thier head in the sand and pretend that racism is not relevant to today. I hate the term "race card" because in many cases people say the "race card" has been used, there are legitimate racial issues involved. Its like the 1979 clan shooting that took place in Greensboro. our city leaders, with exception to the black council members, didnt want to touch that issue with a 10 foot pole.

Good stuff. This thread is what blogs should be. I do admire Spaulding for coming forth and explaining his position. Even if he did intimate that I am a drunken, less than 100% dedicated parent. Hmmmm mayhaps a new VSN "spokesman" is in order here?

Ms Hayes may indeed be a good BOE member but she needs to dial it back. If she continues with her racial insensitivities then she and the BOE should expect and respect the speakers which are bound to appear at the meetings. She has every right to say what she feels but no right from the repercussions. This sceanrio will no doubt lessen her effectiveness. I would imagine she is already closing in on being tuned out by a lot of folks.

I am glad Garth Herbert role was somewhat cleared up. Good luck with The VSN. You have my support... always have. You will all have to excuse me as I have to get to the bar for opening time.

But Tim, no one - other than Deena, apparently - is claiming racism here.

In fact, minority parents spoke out in support of the VSN program at the board meeting. They said white and black students and parents get along just fine at Lincoln.

I agree that racism is still a problem in this country. But it doesn't appear to be a problem in this case.

It seems to me that Deena is creating a racial controversy where none exists - which has been her M.O.

Comparing the majority of commenters on a blog to drunks in a bar...WOW!

Mr. Spaulding, you are such a better blogger than the rest. Did somebody read The Rules Of Blogging to you in the womb?

Terrina and Allen,

Come on. She used the terms slaves and slave masters in a historical sense but she USED IT TO COMPARE TO THE SITUATION AT LINCOLN NOW!

I really have to stretch my imagination to even think of forgiving her.

But, lets wake up here. The Lincoln VSN concept is the same as many magnet programs all over our county.Take the IB program at Central. Check out the diversity in that program. There are several more.

Many of our High schools are like this too. Check out the diversity of the CP programs vs Honors and AP programs.

The truth is that this school board buses kids around and uses programs to hide away the Educational failure that they are participating in.

Hide its away. Dilute the numbers. It looks good on paper but do the disadvantaged kids really get anything from it? Some may do but I think MANY are turned off school and end up not graduating!

Fights were a many at Southwest High yesterday.

It seems lately that some of the Minority students that have been Bused In, cannot control themselves in a civilized manner.

One administrator speaking on yesterdays Melee was quoted as saying,"It was a near Riot!",,,"the worst incident I have ever seen at Southwest".....

Law enforcement was summoned,,order restored,,,but I imagine in keeping with GCS Policy,,, NO Penalties will be Enforced.

Deena,,,,PLEASE,,,Cut the Crap with the RACISM BULL and go to Your People and help them change the Part of their Culture that makes them act like Animals....

On another note,,,at Southwest there is a class of 10 to 12 students,,,,,smartest student reads at a 6th grade level,,,,,2 read at 2nd grade level,,,,,how in the world did these students get Promoted to High School?

And to think our School Board chooses to put these students on a Bus for 3 hours a day,,,time that could be spent in a Neighborhood school being Tutored to Improve Reading Skills......

This is a Disgrace!!!!!!!!!

Deena,,,,your energy should be spent EDUCATING these children,,,,Drop the Racial Healing Seminars and Minority Contractor Scams that do NOTHING for Improving Student Achievement,,,,

Target the REAL PROBLERMS in the POOR, MINORITY CULTURE and maybe the Public can start taking you Serious,,,,,,

"Deena,,,,PLEASE,,,Cut the Crap with the RACISM BULL and go to Your People and help them change the Part of their Culture that makes them act like Animals...."

This is one reason constructive conversations about race can be so difficult.

Allen, Two large fights in the same day
and when your daughter is walking down the corridor and one of these fight breaks out which may put her in danger your feelings tend get a little out of control. Six police cars called.
No historical context here just plain day in day out at our school.

Deena can be excused but the poster above cannot?

What "The Fact" said is no different from what Deena said. Both are injecting race into a situation where it doesn't belong.

School safety shouldn't be a racial issue. All students should be required to follow the rules - and if they don't, the teachers and principals should have the authority to discipline them and protect the other kids. It shouldn't matter what color they are - school discipline should be color-blind.

I realize that doesn't always happen in Guilford County Schools - the GCS central office has an "off-the-record" edict to cut down on the number of black males suspended.

But black kids don't have a monopoly on bad behavior, as "The Fact" suggests. White kids who cause trouble shouldn't be tolerated, either.

Allen, it's Deena who uses the "her people" reference all the time. As in when she states "I'm recommending to my people that they not vote for any new School Bonds until there is more minority Contractor involvement.".

Why in your eyes can Deena make references to "her people", but others cannot?

I haven't said that.

ON THE ONE HAND . . .

Allen, you & I are after the same thing, I believe. Hayes has repeatedly compared the racial make-up of the VSN program to the GCS community at large; we both wonder what those numbers are - "why and whether the program is an enclave unto itself", as you put it.

In an earlier post, I requested information as regards those populations. (I'd still appreciate input.)

What I've found with little information / research:

We only have 2000 Census figures at this point (that I can readily find, anyway).

As of 2000, blacks represented 30.7% of Guilford County's population, and, as per its website, blacks represent 40.7% of this year's GCS student population.

From NCDPI . . .

From 2001 - 2006, the percentage of blacks enrolled in the Academically and Intellectually Gifted community has increased from a low of 13.97% to the current high of 16.36%.

Between 2001 & 2006, the actual number of black students involved with the AIG program has increased at a rate nearly 3 times the number of white students.

From 2001, the % of blacks represented in the program has increased 15.7% while the % of whites represented has decreased more than 9%. By the way, the percentage of whites enrolled in the AIG program has decreased every single year since 2001 - perhaps a result of the influx of Asian & Hispanic residents to Guilford County.

Still to determine:
How do the actual numbers of black students & white students in (just) the VSN program compare to their respective populations in Guilford County as a whole? How does this compare with the AIG community as a whole?

Anyone?

Michael Pope

Just Saying,

The students who witnessed 3 black kids jumping a white freshmen will tell you it was a "racist" incident.

The other fight involved two gangs. These gangs should not be in any of our schools. Children should be there to learn and not disrupt and keep other children from learning.

Suspension is what troublemakers want (of any color). Remove them from the classroom and put them in community service but allowing constant disruptions, disrespect and fights is ruining our public schools.

Just because a group of thugs who happen to be black attack a victim who happens to be white doesn't make it a racial incident.

More importantly, it certainly doesn't mean that black people are "animals", as "The Fact" claimed. I'll still say that's just as bad as Deena's remarks.

Beyond that, I agree with you - schools should draw a hard line against violent offenders and gang members. Criminals don't need to be in school - and the school system's first priority should be protecting the good kids, not coddling the troublemakers.

I also agree that GCS has done a poor job of that in recent years.

SKS

Here's my vote: Terrina 2 Allen 0

"I know Deena has made ratially charged comments in the past but I believe that this latest issue is being viewed with a lense from the past...."
quoted from Terrina Piccarello

Terrina, I believe you are confusing parents with Deena's current view of racial issues with race issues of long ago. The past is Deena's reference point. She has not moved on. (Also you state she is a black woman; others say she is obviously biracial.) From listening to many of her past comments it is always about "race". This is no different.

Speaking of the past, you were the official PR spokesperson at one time for the former ABC group, the group that many called "white racists". If people still believe that then your credibility on this subject should therefore be questionable since that is the case.

"Deena is a black woman so why would she not show up to advocate for black students and families"...
quoted Terrina P

Yes Deena is a black woman, but she is also an elected school board official who took an oath to serve ALL children. Since Alan, Kris, Garth, Jeff, Dot, Darlene and Nancy are white are you saying that they should show up and serve only white children? If we have a Native American board member should they only serve Native American children? Who is looking out for the Hispanic children? And speaking of Hispanics, who is representing them in minority building contracts?

In reference to the VSN program..."affluent white students and poor black students"....
quoted Terrina

We heard Gwen (the second to the last speaker) a minority VSN parent speak and also post subsequent statements on the Chalkboard as did other VSN parents that the VSN program is a mixed group. Everyone gets along fine. There are students from many different socioeconomic programs. It is not just "affluent white students" therefore Deena was wrong in stating the program as such.

As one VSN parent posted somewhere the program should not be dummied down. It is not about color. It is about education and meeting children's education needs. color should have never come into this. No matter what spin you put on this and Deena had her chance to say "my words were misinterpreted" and explain what she meant and apologize to those she offended, she did not.

Most people just now tune her off or turn the volume on "mute" when watching school board meetings because "race" is ALL she talks about.

ON THE OTHER HAND . . .

Should / could the racial make-up of the VSN / AIG programs be kept out of the decision making process altogether? What if ALL decisions
regarding these programs were based SOLELY on what our brightest students NEED & DESERVE and what we can afford to provide them IRREGARDLESS of skin color or other socioeconomic criteria? Isn't that, in fact, how GCS is supposed to be making decisions?

I believe that, if there were no racial make-up numbers available to her, Hayes, and perhaps other board members, would vote differently on many issues. Would Hayes, for example, "vote right now to disband this program [VSN]" if it were populated solely or primarily by black students from her district? I think not! (Ms. Hayes: "check yourself" on that!)

As for Hayes' recent remarks and whether or not they are permissible, I believe they do not honor Rule #16 of the Guilford County Board of
Education Code of Ethics Manual (highlights mine;
http://www.guilford.k12.nc.us/policies/administrative.htm):

16. ACT TO REPRESENT THE CITIZENS OF THE ENTIRE DISTRICT which supersedes any conflicting loyalty a member may have to other advocacy or interest groups, or to an area from which the member may be elected.

Both Hayes & Grier, for his "sweeping the issue under the rug", failed to live up to the BOE policy on providing a DISCRIMINATION FREE ENVIRONMENT (highlights mine;
http://www.guilford.k12.nc.us/policies/admin_policy/ac.htm):

It is the policy of the Guilford County Board of Education to maintain a learning environment that is free from harassment, bullying, and discrimination. This includes, but is not limited to, harassment, bullying, and discrimination based on an individual's real or perceived RACE, COLOR, sex, religion, creed, political belief, age,
national origin, linguistic and language differences, sexual orientation, gender identity/expression, SOCIOECONOMIC STATUS, height,
weight, physical characteristics, marital status, parental status, or disability. The Board prohibits any and all forms of harassment because of those differences.

IT SHALL BE A VIOLATION OF THIS POLICY FOR ANY STUDENT, TEACHER, ADMINISTRATOR, OR OTHER SCHOOL PERSONNEL TO HARASS, BULLY, OR DISCRIMINATE AGAINST ANY PERSON BASED UPON ANY OF THE DIFFERENCES LISTED ABOVE. IT SHALL ALSO BE A VIOLATION OF THIS POLICY FOR ANY TEACHER, ADMINISTRATOR OR OTHER SCHOOL PERSONNEL TO TOLERATE SUCH HARASSMENT, BULLYING, OR DISCRIMINATION OF ANY PERSON BY A STUDENT,
TEACHER, ADMINISTRATOR, OTHER SCHOOL PERSONNEL, or by any third parties subject to supervision and control of the Guilford County Schools.

Michael Pope

The true test of Hayes's statements is this:
If a white person had made those statements in reference to black people would it have been tolerated?

Deena is afraid. Anger is just fear in disguise. So what's Deena so afraid of you ask? WHITE MAN. Deena can't stand for white man to be educated. If it were up to her, whites would be mandated to stay home with no books and repent for all the ills of every slave that ever was. Deena fears whites. It's as simple as that. For her to be on any board representing ANYONE is outlandish. She needs psychological care.

You mean to tell me that there are kids that have been pushed through to high school that are reading at a 2nd grade level?

Who allowed this to Happen?

Someone should lose their Job over this.

Are these children really on a bus 3 hours a day?

Leaders in our community, especially Black leaders should be Outraged over the Neglect by our Superintendent to lead our school board in a direction of BASIC EDUCATION.

Someone must stand up and become an Advocate for these children who are being used as Political Pawns by their so-called representatives.

Grier must go,
Dot must go,
Deena must go

These Children deserve better.

Amen, DGTR....amen

Thank you for the spin compliment. That is kind of fun... but really I have no interest at all in how this is spun. I do not work for anyone, and whether or not people like or do not like Deena has no impact on me. I am just a parent and a member of the community.

My interests are in having a healthy thriving community in which to live and raise my children, and to have a public school system that is of good quality for all children.

I do not know what Action Greensboro knows about what really goes on in our public schools, and whether or not the old money folks and the large business owners actually know the quality of our public schools, because they spent $500,000.00 (in real money) to put a PR spin on the public schools around here. That made me pretty sick. Spend $500,000.00 to improve our facilities, or hire quality teachers. If we had decent facilities, and well run schools that meet the needs of the children who live here, we would not need a PR campaign. So when I hear the word spin... that just brings that forward for me.

(I always wonder if any of those folks have children who actually attend a public school. I imagine their children all attend private school, so maybe that is part of the problem. I do not know that, but have always thought it would be interesting to have that information.)

To respond to earlier posts regarding my post:
1. I am extremely concerned about the kids in the middle. I do believe there is data that shows that we are dumbing down the middle to help with that achievement gap issue. That is horrible. Again, I am very concerned about the kids in the middle, because those are MY kids.

2. Give Garth a chance to get his bearings as a board member. He started in December.

3. I agree that language is important. Could Deena have made her point without using the words "slave" and "slave master"? Yes. But she didn't. So now what? What is our choice about how to respond, and what response would be for the highest good? We all have a choice in whether to become angry or hurt by another's actions. When you indulge in "I'm upset because you..." the only way to work with that is to look inside at the place within us that is disturbed. Our next opportunity is to say "How can we use this for our growth and learning?." "How can we use this opportunity to learn about another person's point of view so we can integrate that into a comprehensive solution that works?" The truth is without upset, most of us would not engage in the difficult discussions, and that would be a loss. and without discomfort, most of us would never change a thing. The only reason people ever really change is if it becomes too difficult to continue to do things the way you always have. Difficult discussions are often what it takes to move to the next level on anything whether it is business or personal. I think upset can be positive. It's a choice we make.

Ralph Waldo Emerson said, "Bad times have scientific value. These are the occasions a good learner would not miss."

I do not want us to get so fixated on being "right" about our positions and miss an opportunity for this community to have authentic, deep, rich, dynamic and productve conversations.

4. People are calling for Deena to say she is sorry for choosing those words. So my sense is that if she does that, this all goes away. Why would we want to miss an opportunity for growth here?

5. "Deena should be the voice of all children." Sometimes people have to specialize. As an attorney, should you take all kinds of legal cases or specialize? Deena is clearly saying she has an agenda to advocate for black students. She is ONE board member. Is it so terrible for one board member to take up the issues of the black community in an intense way? (Maybe it is the intensity that is so uncomfortable for folks. ) Black people have been under-represented for a long time. Deena has made a choice to represent the issues of our black students and families. If you look at the large numbers of black students who are at the bottom of every measure of academic success, we need somebody to work on that level. We cannot continue to have large numbers of children be unsuccessful at school. That hurts all of us. It is devastating for our local economy.
I have to say that in the past, I was very offended by Deena only working with the black students. I was also very offended by many comments and actions to that end. But I have had my eyes opened in the past year to what our black students are up against in life and in our public school system. I have spent the last year advocating on behalf of black students for one reason or another, and we do have some serious issues that need to be addressed with our black students. I think we need board members who can bring something to that table with regard to this population.
6. The ABC group was often called the 'white racist' group. I never found that to be true about that group. That just wasn't true. But people said it. So what. Saying it never made it so. The ABC parents were good people who loved kids. They loved all kids. I never heard them speak ill of black students. Never heard it. No one outside of ABC ever believed me all the millions of times I said it. Too bad. Those North HP people are actually caring parents. A few of them are really mean on line, and say hurtful things. They are upset, angry and have been hurt by the HP choice plan. They say things because they are still angry. Deena does that too sometimes. But I believe those ABC people and even those mean online ones really love all kids. I have seen them with kids and I know how much effort they put into trying to make things better for all kids. So how can it be true that these folks can be so mean, and also are people who care about all kids? Well, obviously that can be true, because it is.

And can Deena be an effective board member if she sometimes inflames an issue, uses words that are offensive to some, and pushes the envelope when it involves black students? Probably.

Let's not get stuck in being right, or in the details of an exchange. Let's focus on where we are headed and how we can work this out together for the highest good of all the kids. If Deena is looking out for the black students, then Darlene is looking out for the kids in the middle, and other board members have their agendas, and different parent groups lobby and advocate for different things, and in the end, it takes 6 votes to get anything done. That's the game. I don't think it will devastate our system for one person to be particularly interested in one polulation. That used to offend me, but I am over that. I think her agenda is clear and on the table. It's not like she is not honest about her agenda. So how can we work with that so we all win?

Terrina:
Thanks for your extremely thoughtful posts. This defintely is an opportunity for useful and constructive dialogue.

Terrina, have you ever heard Deena say anything about her High School Ben Smith?

I have never heard her say things like Amos Quick comments consistently about Dudley. In her four years of representation Smith's results have fallen through the floor and in my mind she has done zilch.

Think about that and then lets discuss how she really advocates for Black kids.

I echo Allen's thanks for your posts, Terrina. If we can begin to understand and acknowledge the kernels of truth within the rhetoric from all concerned, and build on THAT, we'd make more progress.

The stated goals of anti-bullying and non-discrimination are pie-in-the-sky; good goals only if one wants to avoid the kind of elbow rubbing that is required to get to the heart of these issues.

When Deena Hayes made the analogy to slave-masters and slaves, it was, she has said, a conscious choice. What, then, is the kernel of valid truth she is hyperbolizing?An analogy is NOT an equation, with completely identical sides. It is by its nature an asymmetrical comparison. If we grant that the level of slave/slave-master is several degrees beyond the actual truth, we can still look into the idea of "disparity" which the analogy is meant to point out.

I am glad to hear Lincoln is not what Wiley has been in the past. The forthright diagnosis by Mr. Spaulding of how Wiley was run and its past principal is the kind of specificity and honesty the rhetoric often disguises. That is the source of much of Ms. Hayes' distrust and reactions, I believe.

It is only human to (though, perhaps, particularly American) to brag on one's child's test scores, science projects, and the like. We live in a very competitive society. Fine, that's the way it is (even if research siuggests cooperative learning is consistently more fulfilling for children). But VSN parents can get almost unintentionally uppity, let's face it. It's easy to make lists of how to create perfect learning environments if you have the resources and aren't fighting some of the daily battles many in the "under-performing" schools have to.

And really, is being compared hypothetically, analogously to "slave-masters" as bad as being likened to "animals"? It's the height of arrogance to be told you have the trappings of power and privilege, then get upset because you feel like you are downtrodden or something.

THIS SAYS IT ALL. SCHOOL BOARD MEMBERS TAKE AN OATH.

16 of the Guilford County Board of
Education Code of Ethics Manual (highlights mine;
http://www.guilford.k12.nc.us/policies/administrative.htm):
16. ACT a member may have to other advocacy or interest groups, or to an area from which the member may be elected.
Both TO REPRESENT THE CITIZENS OF THE ENTIRE DISTRICT which supersedes any conflicting loyalty

"Entire district" does not say "black children only"

THIS SAYS IT ALL. SCHOOL BOARD MEMBERS TAKE AN OATH.

16 of the Guilford County Board of
Education Code of Ethics Manual (highlights mine;
http://www.guilford.k12.nc.us/policies/administrative.htm):
16. ACT a member may have to other advocacy or interest groups, or to an area from which the member may be elected.
Both TO REPRESENT THE CITIZENS OF THE ENTIRE DISTRICT which supersedes any conflicting loyalty

"Entire district" does not say "black children only"

It is in the best interest of ALL the county's children that no one be made to feel second-class citizens. By advocating for the "least among us", as I believe Jesus called to his followers (meaning the poor, as I recall), the common cause is strengthened. Unless, of course, the real truth is we are competing for limited resources, and the human tendency to get enough for one's perceived "group" is stronger than the call for community on a county level.

In fact, I doubt most of us feel connected in any way other than the "274" or "272" in our zipcodes. Flimsy grounds for unity. The concern over where tax dollars are allocated is real enough. But that is a pie that gets divvied up, and hence the wrangling. Bond issues for construction are particular divisive, as the money is not spent equally per student, are they?

Would we all admit we harbor unconscious territorial instincts, at least?

Meanwhile, the N&R tried to convince all of us that David Wray was a racist because of an investigation of a black officer that was initiated by a black police chief.

Compare and contrast the coverage. It's not your fault Allen, you aren't in the news division.

Also apparent in Hayes' tirade is her badly mistaken belief that all white kids are rich and all black kids are poor.

You only need to look into the statistics of the High School she represents, Ben Smith, to see that African American kids graduate at a higher percentage than Whites there.

Unfortunately, both sets of kids graduation rates are dismally low and as I have said before, ABC's and graduation rates, at Smith have bombed in the four years that Deena Hayes has represented that school.

In the bitter end that is how we should reflect on Deena. It doesnt matter what she says she hasnt done anything for the Ben Smith kids. Its those kids she has failed in the end. I just dont understand how she gets away with it?

Jim Langer:
Your response to the "animal" comment said very eloquently what I had trouble putting into words. Thanks.

Terrina,

I'm sure glad you have no interest in how Deena is spun. Whew! Heaven forbid if you did. Allen would probably have to serialize your posts. Have you ever thought about a carreer as a Russian novelist?

Allen,

I think I have made many thoughtful posts and you've never thanked me. Go figure. If you would just show me a little gratitude once in awhile I could help you spin stuff too. I know this job has to be tiring for you and sometimes must seem like too much for one man such that I can understand you thanking Terrina.

Anyway, let me know.

TERRY THE TURKEY IS LOOSE. GRAB YOUR KIDS AND SEEK SHELTER! I REPEAT, TERRY THE TURKEY IS LOOSE!

Sorry, Savage. I didn't mean for you to feel neglected. Of course I appreciate your thoughts and observations.

"it is the height of arrogance to be told you have the trappings of power and privilege....."

There are many poor white children too who struggle daily. Some are abused. Where is their power and privilege?

No, Jim, the height of arrogance is a black person assuming that everyone who is white has power and privilege. Deena reads too many of the same brainwashing books.

Allen had posted one of Deena's past e-mails asking the person to apologize for her ancesters. What does that have to do with the present day? I would bet that most of the people who post here had ancesters who were starving in the potatoe famine or suffering in other European countries when they came to America in the lower class level of a boat at the turn of the century. Their ancesters did not own slaves. Their ancester lived in packed, unhealthy housing conditions and worked their butts off in dangerous factories, coal mines, etc. They were not people of privilege. They worked hard, believed in America realized education was worth something. Each generation improved but they didn't expect anyone to give them anything.

As for other who post here some of their ancesters were sharecroppers while people of privilege did own slaves.

The arrogance is in assuming all white people just magically have it handed to them from their rich ancesters. Wrong.

Allen,
I dont understand the relevance of the quotes you take out of the SW parents e-mail from Deena. I have re-read it and just dont see the similarity with her latest escapade.
Please explain.

Mr. Spaulding cares a great deal about the education of his child and her friends. He seems not to care about the education of other children whether they are white or black. He would like for the BOE to have a private school for his child with him deciding who his child should mingle with. Teaching ones children to mingle with all kinds of children from various economic groups does not hurt a child. He really should send his children to a private school. If he keeps going the way he has been, his children will not be prepared to be adults. Some parents don not want their children to grow up. I disagree with this concept but we see it every day. Unless there is a big problem, you should send your kids to school and quit micromanging their education. They will be ok.

Concerned, there is a balance. I have seen parents who dont give two hoots what there children do. Somewhere in the middle is healthy.

Joe Stafford aka "Concerned",

You have Mr. Spaulding wrong. His child IS mingling! Deena is the one that said they were NOT mingling! Deena is the one that wants her precious black children to not have to face the "smart whites" because they might find out that kids can actually learn and make something of themselves. Take this up with Deena. SHE is the one wanting to banish this program! Mr. Spaulding is just taking advantage of one of those innovative programs that the BOE offers, give the guy a break! I'm disgusted that if you're white in this county you're supposed to put up and shut up! And if you're black then your needs are seen as history repeating itself in the days of slavery.

Deena needs her eyes gouged out so she can focus on CHILDREN and NOT THEIR COLOR!!!!!!!!

Terrina,

If Deena is "specializing" in black children, why do you think she would vote to put them on a bus so they have to attend a school across town rather than the school closest to their neighborhood? Obviously she doesn't care for mingling, so how would you diagnose that?

Help us understand.

I know one thing. Our system is drifting downward or we are dead in the water. Take your choice. It can be turned around if everyone focuses on Quality Education and puts all the other distractions behind us. Leading the list of those not focusing on education is the Board of Education. The Chairman and each Board Member could do better. We must change our thinking, we must find a way to do better. The present situation is not acceptable. I regret that Deena does not feel comfortable searching for ideas to improve education for all children instead of faulting our ancestors for what they did or did not do. In education, we don't have time to dwell on the past. Yes, mistakes were made. Let's get over and move on. We have to find a way for parents to be in harmony so their children can focus on education.

Dear I'm Serious,

I have not talked with Deena specifically about the HP plan so I would not want to respond to what I "think she thinks" because these issues are just too important and this situation is too sensitive. We can certainly ask Deena about that, and I am sure she will let us know how she feels!

I DO know that "the black community" (if there is such a thing...but more on that later) is divided on what they think of the whole busing and moving kids around issue. I have been to many meetings over the past year with black parents, grandparents and community leaders. What I learned about that is, some people hate the busing, some are not sure what to think of it, and some people hate it. Those are the conversations I have witnessed and been part of.

As far as there being such a thing as "the black community"... I don't believe there is such a thing any more than there is "the white community" and if there was, how would we define it? There is no way that all black people are going to agree on any one issue. That may happen sometimes, but I don't believe it is possible for one group, such as the NAACP of Greensboro, or the NAACP of High Point or the Pulpit Forum, to speak on behalf of ALL BLACK PEOPLE. I know that at times one or another of those groups may agree or they may disagree completely on a matter. So I think Deena represents Deena's opinion as a member of the black community, but you have to acknowledge that Deena is very connected to a large population of active African Americans who participate in this community in many ways and she DOES talk to her community, to community leaders, to other African Americans that may not be in "her circle" and she does listen to all those individuals and groups. Like many Board members, she attends meeting after meeting in this commuity, she goes to community centers, churches and many venues to listen to what people are saying and what is going on. So you have to listen to her opinions and her feedback from that perspective. She certainly doesn't speak for all black people, but she does speak for a large group of black people.

And we can criticize any board member for this and that, but we have to remember there is never a line for people to run for a school board position. Not one person bothered to run against Deena. So there has to be something said about people that are willing to give up a HUGE chunk of personal time to be in this fight in the first place.

I just hate to see us make all this about Deena. Let's get into the issues and start to work towards and integrated, cohesive, competent, and functioning public school system.

Let's figure out how we can have a successful VSN program. Let's figure out how to have a school system that meets the needs of our African American population, affluent and poor, so that they can be academically successful. Let figure out how to challenge and meet the needs of our "regular kids in the middle" (THOSE ARE MY KIDS) so that they are challenged and prepared to go to college or enter the work force. I hope we can get to a place where we can help one group without that being seen as "not helping" another.

We have a compex, multicultural community. We cannot treat all groups the same. They have different needs sometimes. I hope we can get to a point where we can come into acceptance and cooperation with that dynamic.

By the way, I support the VSN program, I HATE, HATE the HP choice plan, I do not support dumbing down the curriculum to reduce the achievement gap, and I absolutely support specialized programs to support African American students and families. That is a demographic that is struggling, and has been struggling, and it just has to be addressed with intensity.

Terrina,

It doesn't matter what YOU think or what I think or what Joe Stafford thinks, etc.

Those 11 people on the BOE get to decide everything and they make decisions without considering YOU, or me or joe or our kids...

So we can talk till the cows come home and it's just THAT.

You make it sound like once YOU have spoken then that's the final answer. Get over yourself please!

Amen. The BOE talks about listening but really does not listen. One of the most disturbing things is that they have shown little interest in how other very successful school districts handle similar problems. They do not copy cat. They seem to believe that their ideas are better than any others in the country.

Terrina, the Choice plan is dead and you know what is in its place. Its obvious from the e-mail Allen quotes from Deena to a SW parent that Deena voted for the gerry-manded redistricting of High Point because she hates white people (written in black and white above). Its simple with her. You are white, you stand up and fight for your child so you are racist!

The result of her hate is the loss of 400 white children from the three High point High Schools over the last three years. These schools are now more segregated than ever.

Her "own people" now sit on buses for three hours a day and have no way to participate in tutoring and after school activities.

How we will EVER go forward with people like this in power? Taking decisions based on hate instead of fact based educational data?

Terrina I'm confused. First you seem to know what Deena was thinking and what she meant, then you say you can't do it.

I would not disagree that it is faulty logic and shameful for any perosn of color to assume all whites are rich. But I'll bet even odds the average income for VSN parents is considerably higher than the median for Guilford County. That said, most middle class whites are blind to the "hidden privilege" they enjoy. Or obstinately in denial. If they tried to walk a mile in the shoes of a black man in this city, and I'll bet they would see at least a few things in a new light. Better yet, if their children had experiences akin to what many, many children of color face and will face as they get into their teen years and beyond, I think white parents would have some serious revelations.

"so there has to be something said about people who are willing to give up a HUGE chunk of their time..."

One reason is when your husband is a minority contractor and doesn't have to bid on jobs. Many see this cut and clear as conflict of interest.

The other reason is POWER and EGO.

And Jim who caused these situations for black children? You cannot blame the children. The white man didn't cause their situation either. Look at their parents. Look at the number of black children from single parent homes. The white man did not cause this. Put responsibility where it belongs.

Jim, what is your point. Let's say I walk in the shoes of the black man, how far should I walk? What's your point? Should I pull my kids OUT of school and offer up their desk to the struggling families? I don't get it. When the bell rings, they have the same opportunities at school. Should I hold my child back because they have not caught up to him? Should I go the houses of all the black struggling kids every night and make sure their homework is done? Do you want us all to just feel pity for them and make excuses and just pat them on the heads and say, "well....they're black, things are just harder for them"...WHAT? Should I stop advocating for my kids because it just looks like I'm being selfish?

Jim get real. That's like saying there are starving people somewhere in the world so every time we eat we should feel guilty. Should we all stop eating then?

I'm TRYING to get this sorry ass board of Ed. to think of ALL kids but when Deena says she's looking out for HER kids,...well, then I say to myself, then I better look out for MINE because she's certainly NOT!

Truth:
The quotes from from the earlier e-mail from Hayes to the parent were intended merely to illustrate that she can use provocative language. That she can have vaild points that she expresses in a less-than-tactful manner.
I think that's relevant to this current issue.

Very relevant to the issue.

She hates white people.

Allen,

Reread her comments to the SW parent. I see no valid point. I see hate and revenge. In Deena's mind if you are white and you stand up and fight for your kids then you are racist.

I think you think the same. Many months ago you wrote about a Black family that lived close to Southwest (I know them but I wont mention their name). You supported their fight to stay at SW. Many of the people that post here live just around the corner from them. You have never supported us.

I think you are just like Deena, just a little more careful in the way you say it.

Truth,

Exactly right about Allen. He can sit home with his Thesaurus and chose just the right word for his columns but his underlying message is the same as Deena. "Whites Bad, Blacks Good".

Living in this county has truly been an eye-opening experience for me. I often wonder what I'd be doing with my time if my family hadn't re-located to this miserable area. We'lll be leaving soon but it won't be soon enough. I can see why Greensboro and other "southern" cities lag behind others in areas of education and leadership. It's all about race. I feel like someone just drug my family back in time. I refuse to live this way. There's so much more to life and it's being missed by living here because it's race, race, race, race, race, race and more race.

I did not say I supported the Thompsons, though I certainly could understand their dilemma. I used their situation to point out the problem that arises when public schools are perceived as unequal. And I used it to point out that it wasn't only white parents who were frustrated by the High Point plan.
I was trying to be fair in looking at the full scope and breadth of the issue.

You don't support anyone Allen. You just talk and talk and talk. You purposely write in your vague style so that you can never look wrong. I think this is why you find yourself being asked the same things over and over, you have no backbone to take a stance. I'll bet the Thompsons will be surprised that you say you did not "support them." It must be nice to just sit around and point out the problems.

LaTasha, et al,

Exactly what are YOU doing besides pointing out problems and sniping from the anonymous sidelines?

There are many here who need to "get over themselves" and Terina ain't one of 'em.

She, at least, is working from the inside to change things and not sitting around throwing stones from the relative comfort of a private school environment.

Have at it...

La Tasha, Of course! I am flabergasted at that reply from Allen. He did not say it but anyone who read the article would have a very clear impression that he did support them.

As for the Thompsons, they will be very suprised!

In the future when Deena has another fit he will probably say "I didnt support her"!

How do you know what we do Hoggard?

Truth,

Hoggard still can't handle that we got Garth elected.

DH, What has Terrina changed? Pray tell. She was a leader in ABC when Dot and Kris remained. So those two seats didn't change (yet).

FYI, Truth's children are not in private school.

FYI, As Truth stated the TRUTH you have no idea what we do regarding our schools.

To the reluctantly anonymous blogger conducting an ad hominem argument-

Unless we move soon (of which I have no immeidate plan), my child WILL be in the Guilford County system. I also have interest in the schools because I LIVE here. I want young people to get good educations and become responsible, intelligent citizens.
My family and I have worked, in various capacities, for years in the public school system and I still do work with high school students in GCS. Hence, I think I am entitled to express my concerns, as are all citizens of the county, whether they have children attending at this very moment or not.

The point I was making earlier is that it DOES make a difference if many white citizens are blasé about the hidden perks of their inheritance, rich or middle class. How can one react once this admission is clear? White parents (and non-parents) could, actually, volunteer to help tutor at an inner-city library; could express more support for programs designed to close the achievement gap; could work to end the disparate way schools are funded (off-the-books) because of location (those in wealthier neighborhoods get inordinate amounts of private donations compared to those in poorer neighborhoods); finally, could actually want to send white children to schools with more mixed populations, instead of sending out "I'll get mine" vibes of the very sort Freddy Niché pointed out and We all have those proclivities, granted; the more public-minded may choose to work against the tendencies.

To address, then, the other anonymous blogger's query, of course responsible is important among the parents of minority students. I never denied that. But, as Franklin told the Continental Congress, "We must now all hang together, gentlemen; or we shall surely hang separately." I am not going to play the "whose fault is it" game. Better to get the whole system working on double time to raise every child up. That includes minorities of intellect like the VSN constituency, as well as any student, regardless of skin color, who is struggling.

Jim, I can't wait until you to have a child IN the GCS. You're in for a rude awakening. Good luck.

Terrina Picarello & Jim Langer:

I agree with you both, in part - but those parts are off-issue here.

Terrina: You wrote, "We have a complex, multicultural community. We cannot treat all groups the same. They have different needs sometimes." True, of course, in most situations, but NOT in this one. Your point is irrelevant as concerns the BOE's decision-making regarding the VSN program. The very concept of the VSN program is that, by treating all groups the same - equally addressing the needs of ALL students, we MUST teach some students differently.

You wrote, "She certainly doesn't speak for all black people, but she does speak for a large group of black people. . . . I just hate to see us make all this about Deena. Let's get into the issues and start to work towards and integrated, cohesive, competent, and functioning public school system." As a member of the BOE, Hayes is OBLIGATED to speak for ALL people, not just a portion of it. She is absolutely wrong to conduct herself in the fashion she does, and many of her actions & comments should & must be censured!

Jim: You pointed out the obvious, " . . . it DOES make a difference if many white citizens are blasé about the hidden perks . . ." Your observation is moot, however, as concerns the BOE's decision-making regarding the VSN program. [Note: as for me, I do send my daughter to a school with a more mixed population (less mixed actually!), and I do volunteer to tutor children who don't get help at home.]

The VSN program should have nothing to do with race, wealth or anything besides need - period. On this issue, unlike most, the ONLY consideration should be the educational needs of our brightest students. As the VSN program addresses ONLY students whose full potential cannot be met at their "home schools", the needs of any particular sub-class of students are irrelevant to this discussion. Again, by treating all groups the same - equally addressing the needs of ALL students, we MUST teach some students differently.

Michael Pope

Hello folks. Look at my website blog entry for Jan. 15, click on my name below to take you directly to my website. Let's use her remarks as an opportunity for all of us to refocus and redouble our efforts to put children first.

E.C. Huey

Michael,

Isn't it true that many of the VSN students had expensive, private testing when their EOG scores weren't quite high enough to get them in??

Doesn't that create a situation that favors the middle and upper middle class?

Many? No, not to my knowledge.

The availability of that testing does favor the middle & upper classes, to be sure, but the test itself, in theory, does not. GCS determined that the testing is equivalent to EOG scores in recognizing VSN-level proficiencies.

That said, I don't really follow your point. Are you suggesting that the VSN program be dismantled because some parents CAN rely on not just a single test to judge their childrens' abilities? Should students who get expensive, private tutoring to augment their in-school performance be prohibited from doing so? For that matter, should American gold medals be considered inferior to those won by countries without our funding and "toys"?

If I were having an operation, I would care less whether my doctor is white or black. I would care less whether his education were obtained at an Ivy League school as a result of a wealthy parent who also matriculated there or she boot-strapped her way from the wrong side of the tracks. I'd care ONLY about his or her abilities to repair my health problem. In this situation, it's not about what got them here, it's about the fact that they deserve to be here. And we owe them the differenciated education they REQUIRE.

Assuring equal opportunity to get here is a discussion for another day.

Michael Pope

Michael,

What about my comment led you to believe that I was suggesting that the VSN program be dismantled?

My point is that there are students in the program who qualify based upon their EOG scores (and other qualifications. These attributes were measured at no cost to the qualifying students.

There are many students in the VSN program who did not qualify based upon their EOG scores and their parents had them privately tested to ensure their admittance to this program.

My point is simply that this approach favors the middle and upper middle class families thus possibly skewing the diversity numbers.

I just assumed you were making a case that the VSN is "bad", etc., because of some supposed "numbersgame".

That some parents - however many - would go to lengths and personal expense to get their children into VSN says something positive about the program, don't you think?

If the diversity numbers are skewed, then why are they the same across the board - AIG, IB & Early College all have similar numbers, that is, approximately 17% of their respective populations are black students. And those programs do not allow the supplementary testing, to my knowledge.

Again, you've claimed that "many" students had the private testing? Where do you get this information? Are those students white or black?

I dont think Deena would like to know that. It definitely skews the numbers since poor families can not pay for this "one on one" private testing.

Michael,

I have been "Numbersgame" for a very long time - it has nothing to do with this VSN controversy.

I really don't wish to argue with you, I'm trying to provide additional facts on this subject.

I happen to know one of the "private" testers in this county. He does a good business.

FYI - both IB and Early College are somewhat subjective in their admittance criteria as students who enter those programs must have characteristics other than high test scores. It's not a clear cut method for determining admittance. In fact, IB students don't even have to ben straight A students - their greatest trait is ambition and the fact that they are hard workers.

They are most probably middle-class too!

It would be interesting to see the social demographics of Grimsley's IB program. That would be an eye opener for DeenaAllenDot&Co.

David H:

Has Terrina helped lower the achievement gap?

Has the number of violent incidences in our school decresed? (FYI SWH had two major fights last week in one day where extra police had to be called in.)

Has the graduation rates in our schools esp for black males increased?

Have AYPs gone up?

Do you have inside knowledge of some secret changes that are occurring in our schools?

Please share.