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Allen:

The comment by the UNCG student is just plain dumb; it shows that we need to do a better job of educating students. No community has a monopoly on good or bad behavior (or apparently dumb comments).

I agree, the comments by the UNC-G student were grossly unfair and obviously she is completely out of touch with reality. She owes the A & T community an apology. I don't recall A & T students demeaning UNC-G campus or students during their times of "unpleasant" events.

Dave, will your "better job of educating students" include an actual examination of crime statistics reported by both universities?

The UNCG student was wrong to say one would "expect" a crime to occur at A&T because the level of crime there is not high. If she was trying to make the point that more crime occurs at A&T than at UNCG, she's correct.

Some key categories for 2005, the latest year reported by both campus police departments:

Forcible sexual offense: 3 at A&T to 1 at UNCG;
Robbery: 11 to 3;
Aggravated assault: 11 to 2;
Weapons violations: 39 to 13.

The reports don't identify the persons responsible for these incidents. They may be outsiders in most cases.

Doug, I'm glad you posted the numbers. I was going to, but was sure I'd just be branded a "racist" for pointing out the obvious.

The obvious being ....????

Doug:

There is no statistical reason why a UNCG student would "expect things 'like this' to happen at A&T." Crime clearly spiked at A&T last year. There were 293 total incident reports at A&T compared to 120 the year before and 157 the year before that. Also, UNCG's numbers seem strangely low (for instance, there were many, many more assaults and burlaries in 02 & 03).

However, even if you take last year's high numbers for A&T, statistics indicate that you would still be substantially safer on and around the A&T campus than most other places in the state. For instance, the robbery rate (while too high) is one third lower on and around the A&T campus than elsewhere; the assault rate is two-thirds lower than elsewhere.

I agree there's nothing obvious here. These are just numbers that provide a certain amount of information but not context. They don't sustain any racial conclusions, if anyone's looking to do that. Most perpetrators at A&T could be white, most at UNCG could be black. The numbers don't speak to that question.

Going back to the issue of "education," students at both campuses should be educated about safety. We addressed that in an editorial last week. A good start is not to let strangers into your dorm. Next, don't tolerate drugs or weapons in your dorm. It's your home, and you have a right to live in your home without threats to your health and safety.

It's also a good idea not to bring illegal drugs into the dorm.

Statistics released by colleges and universities do not always tell the whole story. No university wants to publish crime rates on campus. Further, any warrants taken out by students (not by university police officers) don't show up on those stats.
For example, if a student takes an assault charge out against her fellow student boyfriend, that won't be a university statistic.
I can tell you that I see students from both North Carolina A & T and UNC-G in criminal district court almost every day for charges like: assault on female, simple assault, communicating threats, injury to property, stalking and cyberstalking, harassing phone calls. These type of charges usually involve other students as the victims or prosecuting witnesses. Then I see a fair number of financial crimes: obtaining property by false pretenses, embezzlement, financial card theft/fraud. These usually involve students who work at a business and steal merchandise or let their friends claim false refunds or return stolen merchandise, etc.
There are also college students from both universities charged with shoplifting and misdemeanor larceny. Most of these students go on a first offender/community service program.
And then there are the drug offenses: usually simple possession marijuana, but there are also the possession with intent to sell, maintaining a dwelling, etc. And of course the alcohol offenses--drinking, purchasing underage, dwi, etc.

Again, I see a fair number of students from both these universities in court.

I only recall seeing Greensboro College students in criminal court twice in 10 years. Both were assault cases. One involved a guy whose girlfriend had cheated on him and then falsely accused the other guy of raping her--her boyfriend beat that guy up pretty bad because he thought the victim had raped the girlfriend. The other was a girl who assaulted another girl--I can't recall the details, but I think they had both dated the same guy.

I rarely see Bennett College students, and when I do, it's usually a shoplifting--first offender thing.

I don't see many Guilford College students either. When they are in court, it's usually for an alochol or marijuana charge or being a trespasses/protester.

High Point University students are probably third place in volume. Their charges usually involve alcohol/marijuana, shoplifting, assaults at off campus parties. Many are eligible for first offender and alcohol/drug education deferrals.

"They [campus crime statistics] don't sustain any racial conclusions, if anyone's looking to do that."

There's the elephant in the room. Both the original comment and its reception clearly point to racial stereotype (presence of blacks=presence of criminals) as the unspoken subtext of the message.

Let's change the scenario to get rid of the problems of campus crime statistics. A drug shooting takes place on Country Club drive and a resident is quoted as saying "That's the sort of the thing you'd expect on South Eugene street" (where, as I recall from the paper's crime maps, a disportionate share of such shootings take place--if not South Eugene, then street #1 on that list).

Is that still an "unfair," "unconstructive," comment from someone "out of touch with reality"? Or is it simply rude because it's the sort of thing one doesn't say?

Susan:

There does appear to be something odd in the statistics released by the universities. It doesn't make any sense that there would be the tremendous jumps and dips in some of the numbers from one year to the next.

He/she who cannot be named:

Perhaps as important as the racial differences are the gender differences on the campuses. The UNCG student population is more than 2/3 female, while the NC A&T population is closer to 50/50.

For the record, the UNCG student who made the comment about A&T was, by the way, was African American.

I base most of my views on what I see and hear firsthand. I have taught at A&T for nearly 17 years. I have taught at UNCG, off and on, for seven and a half years, in morning and evening classes.

I have not seen major crime problems on either campus. That said, however, students on both campuses have told me that they have been mugged.

Both have had their share of high-profile issues: a string of sexual assaults at A&T a few years ago; a prostitution ring operated out of a dorm at UNCG.

Despite Doug's statistics, which have been very helpful to this discussion, I agree with Sue; they still can be deceiving. Neither campus is in a position to claim being holier than thou.

And the student's impulse to point fingers was largely irrelevant to the case at hand.

The student's opinion reflected the "obvious"...we see more violent crime on the A&T campus than we do on the UNC-G campus. Ask 100 people who've lived in our community for any length of time which campus they'd expect to hear about a drug shooting coming from, and I'll bet the opinion would favor A&T.
Just the obvious. You can twist the words any way you want, but the A&T campus is more violent than the UNC-G campus. Is it a component of race? I don't know...but I know that if you state the "obvious" you'll be branded a racist.

Jaycee, you keep saying that, and no one's called you a racist yet. Should we call the UNCG student a racist, too?

"Ask any 100 people"?
Would that be based on perception or reality? And how much time do you spend on either campus, Jaycee?

Your whole position on this since your initial remarks are that the young lady's remarks were unfair for some reason; the insinuation is that they're unfair because it was a "racist" statement.
Blacks commit more crimes than whites, and that's a fact. There have been more shootings, assaults, cuttings, ect., on the A&T campus than on the UNC-G campus, and that's a fact.
And you wonder why most people would immediately think "A&T" if they heard the news headline, "Drug Shooting At Local College"..?? You can swerve and duck the issue but the fact remains that this kind of activity is more often associated with A&T than UNC-G.

Does associating a school with criminal activity mean that the school has a crime problem? No.
A&T is not a haven for criminals, and neither is UNCG. Neither university is crime-free, and I have spent plenty of time at both schools.
In this case, the suspected drug dealer is a UNCG student, and the suspected shooter(s) were from A&T.

Jaycee,

You stated "Blacks commit more crimes than whites and that is a fact" What numbers are you using? Blacks are a minority, how could they have the highest number of anything? You want someone to call your comment racist but, I call it stupid...

Whites commit more serial killings, and more whites are petifiles and that is a definitely a fact Jack. Oh, did I mention those were crimes. When I hear of something like this happening I immediately know it was a white (Man).

Don't bother trying to duck this issue because I'm calling it like it is. I'm sure you won't find these types of criminals at A&T.

Blacks commit crimes in a far greater proportion to their representation in the population than do blacks.
The ratio of black to white offenders in prison is far greater than the ratio of black to white population.
Serial murderers are mostly white. Pedophilia is largely a white-offender crime.

Sorry, hit the "Post" button too soon on the above post.
My post should have read, "Blacks commit crimes in a far greater proportion to their representation in the population than do WHITES."

• Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder, and eight times more likely to commit robbery.

• When blacks commit crimes of violence, they are nearly three times more likely than non-blacks to use a gun, and more than twice as likely to use a knife.

• Of the nearly 770,000 violent interracial crimes committed every year involving blacks and whites, blacks commit 85 percent and whites commit 15 percent.

• Blacks commit more violent crime against whites than against blacks. Forty-five percent of their victims are white, 43 percent are black, and 10 percent are Hispanic. When whites commit violent crime, only three percent of their victims are black.

• Blacks are an estimated 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against a white than vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit robbery.

Source: http://www.amren.com/store/colorcrime.htm

CRIME IS CRIME

Why are white people focusing more attention on “street crimes” presumably committed by blacks than so-called “suit crimes”, committed by whites? Are we confused by the fact that crimes committed by white people occur in the less obvious areas of criminality, the terrain where fraudsters, embezzlers and corrupt characters of all kinds are allowed to flourish.

On the other hand, white people might not see themselves as thieves. Yet, research consistently shows that white-collar crime threatens the relationship of trust between citizens and government. Could it be that when whites commit crimes it is perceived as a type of “moral free-loading” because it extends a vast system of spiritual and material privilege?

Altheman

White-collar crimes cost the United States more than $300 billion annually according to the FBI.

White-collar crimes are fraud, bankruptcy fraud, bribery, insider trading, embezzlement, computer crime, medical crime, public corruption, identity theft, environmental crime, pension fund crime, RICO crimes, consumer fraud, occupational crime, securities fraud, financial fraud, and forgery. The tools of the trade are paperwork or through the computer. White collar crimes go largely undetected.

Let's not go there. The point is taken on both sides. All people commit cimes. Regardless of race.

source www.karisable.com/crwc.htm

American Renaissance is a conservative monthly publication that promotes a variety of white racial postions. If you are going to quote something you need to quote a source that is unbiased. You have to take into consideration that blacks don't have the political connections to make the petty stuff go away. One thing for sure most crimes are committed by blacks against other blacks and not the opposite that you stated.

Look at the disparity in sentencing amongst blacks and whites. Blacks don't have the resources to hire a private attorney and are generally relegated to court appointed attorneys who coerce them into taking a plea bargain rather than fighting a case at trial.

Ex: The recent case where the white man was convicted of murdering and dismembering a black man and only received a fifteen year penalty. Had that been reversed the black man would have been given double life or possibly death.

Ex: The case of Martha Stewart and Lil Kim. Both ladies lied and one served 1 year and a day,100% served behind bars in a correctional facility but the other served five months in federal cushy prison and the remainder on house arrest.

What a disparity. Racism exist in the Court system and the penal system at large. So stop making excuses for the poor white privileged people of America.

Altheman, I'm sorry you don't like the story told by the facts. Blacks commit more crimes in proportion to their representation in population than do whites. Slant it, cut it, slice and dice it any way you want, that's the bottom line.
I sincerely wish that leaders such as Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, et. al., would concentrate on preventing crime among their black followers instead of bashing society for catching and prosecuting black criminals.

Jaycee:
I'd like to see a concerted effort to prevent/fight all crime, regardless of who commits it and where.

Amen, Allen.

Jaycee, likewise....

I agree with you Allen. Maybe Jaycee can find some more biased stats.

altheman, are you disputing Justice Department stats? Please enlighten us and show us where the entire US Government has gotten all the stats wrong since you obviously know more than they do. Please show me evidence that whites commit more crimes in proportion to their representation in the population. Please show us where whites are over-represented in prison and blacks are under-represented. Please show me on a crime stat map where more crimes are committed in white neighborhoods than in black neighborhoods. Please introduce me to the black victims in Ray Warren Homes or Smith Homes and let me hear them tell me how they were burglarized by gangs of whites, or how whites stand on the corner and sell crack and shoot each other. Can you show me any of these things?
I'm sorry the truth hurts, but you need to face reality, pal. Hiding behind your liberalism doesn't solve any problems.

Jaycee,

I'm sure those rich black people are bringing in all of those drugs in their communities and creating all of those stats. You need to be real and face the real facts the real criminals are the privileged and greedy. You need to reread my previous comment and look at the white collar criminals the same ones who are bringing in the crack, guns and other weapons of mass destruction to the black community. All of the social ills of our society were introduced by the privilege not the poor. Stats don't mean nothing just look around and open your eyes. The poor has become the result of the privileged greed and hatred. No need to debate this further you know I know.

"...white collar criminals the same ones who are bringing in the crack, guns and other weapons of mass destruction to the black community."

My friend, you need to stop smoking that crack you're talking about. It done made you null and void.